Filling 5HP30 - oil backflows before the 6lt mark?

[nmlss2006]

Folks,
as per my previous threads, I am replacing the fluid in the 5HP30 of my 2000 750iL. 93kmi on the clock, for reference.

Drained the thing - use vise grips on the drain port btw, you can't fit a 14 hex socket in there, took the pan off, changed the filter - wonderful shower - new filter and gasket, pan back on, torque the screws (they're T27s, get a decent impact bit and use a 1/4" impact wrench after cleaning the heads with brake cleaner... no more messed up screws), start refilling.

The first 5 liters went fine. I opened the second 5lt bottle, stuck the pump hose into it.. started pumping.. the fluid came back out as fast as I was putting it in. The interesting part is, if I do the finger feel test, it seems like the pan isn't full - and it shouldn't be, it needs 9+lts from what I know - but the oil still comes back out as fast as I can pump it in. Do I get a neoprene cork and run a tube through it to stop the backflow?

Self edit: it appears that according to ZF the pan capacity is, indeed, 5.5 litres. The problem is that the fluid that came out is between 6 and 7. I ran the car and I'm waiting for it to drain a bit, then I'll see if any comes out of the drain plug - I suspect I'll be able to fit more in. Once that is done, I'll do the proper level test tomorrow morning early... there's no way to get the fluid below 35C during the day in August in NJ.

Self edit 2: indeed, trans temp was at 45C. Tomorrow morning around 7, hopefully...

[Timm]

No, you will overfill it! Are you following the correct procedure as explained below?

https://www.meeknet.co.uk/Gen_BMW/ZF_5HP30_Gearbox.pdf#page=4

[jclausen]

It's filled by temperature once you exceed that you can't continue to fill it

[nmlss2006]

Timm, I am. See edits above - apparently I was mistaken on the quantity of oil, but the interesting thing is I confirmed that I am between 1lt and 2lt shy of what came out.

I'll perform the test per the ZF procedure tomorrow morning- it's too hot now - and will report back. A quick test half and hour ago with the trans at 45C had oil dribbling out the fill, which means the trans was overfilled previously, unless I am mistaken. Is this even possible?

[shogun]

overfilled? Depends on ATF temperature. You can get a bit more in when the ATF is very cold, here for example the differences in volume based on temperatures https://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/BMWtransService.pdf

[nmlss2006]

The ATF is presently around 36C in the bottle (the entire garage is in the mid-30s...).

And yes, overfilled: if I took out between 6 and 7 litres and less than 6 went in ... and the level is 'about right', then it was overfilled previously, was it not? TBH, it looks like you could comfortably have an extra litre of fluid in there with no particularly negative consequence..

[nmlss2006]

Morning update: sure enough, this morning we started the forsaken thing and, at 37C (close enough..) it took SIGNIFICANTLY more oil in, with the engine running. Now of course the problem is that it will take 3/4 of forever to get the temp back down .. at least to the 40s...

Will update again.

[sirbevo]

I got this so I wouldn't have to be under the car with engine running and dealing with the craptastic way we are supposed to fill the Trans. It's an awesome mod

http://www.meurosport.com/5HP24_Dip_Stick.php

[nmlss2006]

And after a few miles (and a flat tire, but that's another story for another time...) I can say: the car took, in the end, 8.5 litres minus probably 500-600cc which ended up on me. In any case, the volume of oil out (which was original, BTW) and oil in are very comparable.

It shifts enormously better, it snagged on second a couple of times but it seems to be done with that.

OTOH, it whines MORE. I suspect the new oil actually removed a lot of crap and the new filter (FILTRAN, of course) is actually having issues. I will change oil + filter again in another 500-600 miles or so, the car got to 92,300 on factory oil and I think a double change (to dilute the old oil to approximately 1/4) can't be bad.

sirbevo, that is all sorts of awesome but... I have a 750 and it doesn't seem like the gentleman makes anything for the 5HP30 (it would, actually, be quite a bit harder... though not impossible, I suppose)

[TheAngryBear]

sirbevo, that is all sorts of awesome but... I have a 750 and it doesn't seem like the gentleman makes anything for the 5HP30 (it would, actually, be quite a bit harder... though not impossible, I suppose)
I emailed and asked what the standing and/or estimate is for the 5HP30 E38 is. Will let all know what he says.

As for the whining, did you replace the filter oring? There may have been 2 in the package and either 1) pick the right one or 2) switch them. Trying to remember the post I saw on that...


2001 750iL DD74441
E65 fan & clutch, E65 headrests, Front First Aid Kit, Ultimate Cup holder

RIP: 2003 540iA Sport GS56111
H&R front springs, Ultimate Cup Holder, Euro Dash & Armrest, Grom, BavSound Stage1

[nmlss2006]

I actually emailed myself - so we'll see.

And yes, I put in the filter o-ring from the package (it was the official BMW package and only had the one). Interestingly, the old filter did NOT have an O-ring. The filters are, BTW, identical.

Edit: now you have me thinking as to whether the old o-ring could have possibly gone somewhere it shouldn't have. It seems... improbable, but it has to be somewhere, right?

[racer2086]

More likely you have 2 o-rings I'm there now...

[alexisonfire]

Good luck hearing back, that guys "customer service" is a joke. Wont buy from him again.

[nmlss2006]

Yeah, no e-mail replies so far.

As to the O-rings... I'll check again, but I'm pretty sure the O-ring wasn't there. Which does sound strange, indubitably. I already ordered another filter and gasket... and 10 more liters of bathing fluid.. I mean ATF.

Weekend after next I'll go for round two. I've driven 800 miles so far and apart from the slight whine and the very occasional (as in, happened three or four times) 'grab' when upshifting second, it's been behaving much, much better.

[alexisonfire]

One of mine was defective and the other was missing a part and he just ignored me. kept the money and ran, basically. All I wanted to do was return them. pretty sad. waste of $350 or what ever it was for two of them, just remember it not being cheap.
Buyer beware with that guy and his 5hp 24 dip sticks!

[shogun]

check once more for the second o-ring, we sometimes find in the valve body when we do a VB overhaul a 'forgotten' o-ring and 2 O-rings can also cause leaks, especially when the old one is cracked. Important is that the o-ring fits exactly, here some pics from our collection of good and bad filter O-rings https://e32b12.blogspot.com/2012/10/transmission-filter-o-ring.html

[nmlss2006]

Will do: I'm taking everything apart again this weekend.

The O-ring fits into the 'shoulder' of the filter pipe, correct?

[nmlss2006]

.

[racer2086]

One of mine was defective and the other was missing a part and he just ignored me. kept the money and ran, basically. All I wanted to do was return them. pretty sad. waste of $350 or what ever it was for two of them, just remember it not being cheap.
Buyer beware with that guy and his 5hp 24 dip sticks!

I had the opposite experience with him. I got one years ago for my 740. Fits great. I've been in contact with him 6 months apart on regards to getting it to work with my 540. He has always responded to my emails.

It is a one man operation, so if the guy is out of town, you won't hear from him for a bit.