E36 318is Auto Tranny doesn't work but no fault code

[neixian]

Hi guys,

This is very interesting. I recently replaced the input shaft seal which was leaking. I might have added not enough fluid, the type of which should be correct, ATXIII or something.

And the tranny A4S 310R stopped working yesterday in the street. As the gear shaped fault lamp came up a few times and gone while restart the car, I tried to read the code. Which has following reading:

1E
20
21
04
2A

but this doesn't make sense to me after checking the code meaning.

So I cleared the code from memory, and now they never come back. However the car is still not running.

I have some reading from the OBDII datastream but I couldn't upload. Maybe it is because I am a new member?

[shogun]

You can upload the data stream on a free server and post the link here, it may take some time till you can see it, as you have only 1 post so far and up to 10 posts the moderator has to approve the post, that is the forum spam-o-matic.
Here is a link how to check the fluid level correctly https://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/DTC.BMW/BMWtransService.pdf
Does it not move in forward or also in R ?
Torque converter installed correct? https://www.europeantransmissions.com/Bulletin/important_torque_converter_insta.htm

[neixian]

Thanks for the reply.

I believed the tc was installed correctly so the car had been running for a while until it suddenly stopped.

And now it doesn't move in any direction.

I am not sure it has enough fluid or not. I put 3.0L in as per specification, but it appeared a bit low while it stopped working.

I have topped up but it still refuse to move.

Can lack of fluid make it stop completely?



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[bmwdirtracer]

Well of course lack of fluid can make it stop completely. Automatic transmissions are FLUID DRIVE.

I have no clue what makes you think the fluid capacity is 3 liters? Does this transmission fill from a dipstick tube, or from below, with a pump? Either way, it needs to be filled with engine running. If it fills from below, you fill until the fluid comes out the fill hole, with the transmission at 50-70 degrees CELCIUS (very warm)...ENGINE RUNNING!

I generally expect a drain-and-fill to need about 6 quarts, but if you had the torque convertor off, and it lost fluid, it may need more. The official capacity for your transmission is 8.8 liters, including the torque convertor, but you'll never use that much, because the transmission always retains a fair bit, even when you drop the pan. (You DID drop the pan and change the filter, didn't you?)

Installing the torque convertor is not an easy job to do correctly. Did you have any problem getting the transmission to slide fully into place, or have to pull it in with the bolts? Did you bolt it to the flex plate?

[shogun]

A4S 310R : some earlier ones have dipstick, later ones not, and note for fluid filling capacity: if you did it with your old Bentley manual, they have a revision with updated capacities https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/BMW+ATF+Service+for+A4S+310R+and+A5S+310Z+automati c+transmissions

I do not know how that is with the A4S 310R, but for the 5HP18 ZF and 5HP30 I read a lot now about a broken selector valve, so people believe they shift, but actually nothing moves. A new selector valve is on the market with different material.
Typical problem, that the material expands/swells slightly with age. But that is a cheap part and easy to replace.
The selector valve inside the valve body was originally made out of a kind of plastic/resin, that breaks, example 1056 327 173 01 selector valve http://www.thectsc.com/products/selector-valve-84-3.html
7 cases I know of within last months on E32 730 M60B30 with 5HP18 in Germany, on an E36 M3 with 5HP18, and on E34 with a 5HP18 and another one on a E36 with 5HP18. That part is included in every valve body overhaul kit of 5HP30, 5HP18.

[neixian]

Thanks for the reply.

I checked the GM a4s 310r documents it says initial fill up 3L. Then top up till it spill from the fill hole.

I did this and drove a few hundred meter before it fully stopped in the street.

Then I tried to check the fluid level and in deed it is a bit low so I top it up while engine running till it spill.

Even if it is cold it is just more than when hot.

You are right I didn't slide the transmission in perfectly but used bolts to pull in in.

TC is bolted up I am sure otherwise it wound not drive in the first place.

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[neixian]

My question then is if it fully stopped, due to lack of fluid, how to make it run again after topping up? Is there a way or it is completely damaged?

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[neixian]

A4S 310R : some earlier ones have dipstick, later ones not, and note for fluid filling capacity: if you did it with your old Bentley manual, they have a revision with updated capacities https://wiki.bentleypublishers.com/display/tech/BMW+ATF+Service+for+A4S+310R+and+A5S+310Z+automati c+transmissions

I do not know how that is with the A4S 310R, but for the 5HP18 ZF and 5HP30 I read a lot now about a broken selector valve, so people believe they shift, but actually nothing moves. A new selector valve is on the market with different material.
Typical problem, that the material expands/swells slightly with age. But that is a cheap part and easy to replace.
The selector valve inside the valve body was originally made out of a kind of plastic/resin, that breaks, example 1056 327 173 01 selector valve http://www.thectsc.com/products/selector-valve-84-3.html
7 cases I know of within last months on E32 730 M60B30 with 5HP18 in Germany, on an E36 M3 with 5HP18, and on E34 with a 5HP18 and another one on a E36 with 5HP18. That part is included in every valve body overhaul kit of 5HP30, 5HP18.


Thank, is this in the transmission oil pan? I might remove the two oil pans to see what is broken.

- - - Updated - - -

No I didn't remove the oil pan and didn't replaced the filter.

[shogun]

I do not know the GM trans so well, but on the ZF transmissions, if it does not move at all, then there is the possibility that the splines on the input shaft of the transmission for the torque converter are damaged. This is one of the possibilities, maybe first it still worked with a bit force by the splines and then the splines were damaged. Typical damage when the torque converter is not installed correctly.

here from E46, Removing and installing automatic transmission (A4S 310R) https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e46-316i-lim/repair-manuals/24-automatic-transmission/24-00-automatic-transmission/AVFyzjx

"Thank, is this in the transmission oil pan? I might remove the two oil pans to see what is broken.">> On the ZF it is in the oil pan, respectively when you remove the oil pan you can see the valve body and there it is included, similar on the GM.

[neixian]

I think the converter was installed correctly. If that was the case, at lease it will make some noise or you can feel some stall or lack of power.

But the car just stopped moving after I was trying to do a 3-point u-turn in the street.

[shogun]

Have you check the selector lever on the trans already? https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e46-316i-lim/repair-manuals/24-automatic-transmission/24-00-automatic-transmission/AWMZdCU
Maybe the grip clamping sleeve is lose? Or wrong adjustment?

[neixian]

Have you check the selector lever on the trans already? https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e46-316i-lim/repair-manuals/24-automatic-transmission/24-00-automatic-transmission/AWMZdCU
Maybe the grip clamping sleeve is lose? Or wrong adjustment?Yes I did. There is no slipping.

I even tried the move it manually after losen it, it doesn't work.

But I noticed something while diagnosing with obdii, although was in park mode of neutral mode, the tool always tell me it is not in park or neutral.

Might indeed need open it to see if the valve selector is damaged or not.

[neixian]

Have you check the selector lever on the trans already? https://www.newtis.info/tisv2/a/en/e46-316i-lim/repair-manuals/24-automatic-transmission/24-00-automatic-transmission/AWMZdCU
Maybe the grip clamping sleeve is lose? Or wrong adjustment?


Yes I did.

I even tried to change the gear by turning the lever. And it doens't work.

Maybe it is the time to remove the oil pan to check it out.

[shogun]

Here is just as example the broken selector valve of a ZF 5HP18.
639630

[neixian]

Here is just as example the broken selector valve of a ZF 5HP18.
639630Thanks for the picture. There is nothing like that in the transmission as now it is open. All metallic.

I am now suspecting a failed valve but as there are three in the main oil pan, I don't know which one. Need more investigation.

But as it is not moving at all, it must be something controls all power flow.



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[bmwdirtracer]

If the torque convertor doesn't seat the last half inch or so, and you use the bolts to pull the transmission into place, because it doesn't slide in easily, you will punch the convertor shaft through the pump, and the transmission is dead. Usually, however, this results in a significant fluid leak, so it may not be the case here. Still, using the bolts to pull the trans into place is a potential disaster.

[neixian]

If the torque convertor doesn't seat the last half inch or so, and you use the bolts to pull the transmission into place, because it doesn't slide in easily, you will punch the convertor shaft through the pump, and the transmission is dead. Usually, however, this results in a significant fluid leak, so it may not be the case here. Still, using the bolts to pull the trans into place is a potential disaster.


Thanks for the info.

Before I pull the transmission in position, I had it close enough and bolted the tc to the flexplate. Therefore the disaster you mentioned must have been avoided as it drived a long time after the fix and only died suddenly when I am 3 point u-turning.

I am guessing some governing valve has failed, but it can be something else.

[shogun]

Some more info on this trans, 4L 30E = A4S 310R , large file for download http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/4L30E.pdf

[neixian]

Some more info on this trans, 4L 30E = A4S 310R , large file for download http://shop.ukrtrans.biz/wp-content/uploads/catalogs/4L30E.pdf


Thanks, this is very good document.

Could there be a repair manual?

[shogun]

you can buy it online from various trans shops, ebay and amazon, google for : 4L30E Transmission ATSG Technical Repair and Service Manual for GM BMW
price is around $30-40.
This ATSG transmission repair manual contains service and identification troubleshooting, removal and installation information, transmission disassemble and assembly information, transmission valve body and clutch drum components, pressure charts and torque specifications.

[neixian]

you can buy it online from various trans shops, ebay and amazon, google for : 4L30E Transmission ATSG Technical Repair and Service Manual for GM BMW
price is around $30-40.
This ATSG transmission repair manual contains service and identification troubleshooting, removal and installation information, transmission disassemble and assembly information, transmission valve body and clutch drum components, pressure charts and torque specifications.

I was thinking, maybe a blocked filter? There was transmission stop leak addictive put in before so it could be blocked. Will check tomorrow.

[MarcoZandrini]

Stop leak! Gott im Himmel!

Chris and Shogun, is that stuff the kids of death for this transmission?

[bmwdirtracer]

Well, oil stop leaks work quite differently than coolant stop leaks, Mark. While coolant stop-leaks clog the hell out of everything, oil stop leaks are GENERALLY just seal-softeners/swelling agents. These don't usually clog things.

Now, that said, I would never think of having an automatic transmission out without changing filter and fluid....and, THAT said....personally, if all the mechanical bits are bolted up properly, and there's no fluid pouring out, I'd be looking for a different transmission instead of screwing with this one. I can find a dozen of them, with warranty, at various salvage yards, for ~$300. or less.

Just my 2 cents.

[neixian]

Well, oil stop leaks work quite differently than coolant stop leaks, Mark. While coolant stop-leaks clog the hell out of everything, oil stop leaks are GENERALLY just seal-softeners/swelling agents. These don't usually clog things.

Now, that said, I would never think of having an automatic transmission out without changing filter and fluid....and, THAT said....personally, if all the mechanical bits are bolted up properly, and there's no fluid pouring out, I'd be looking for a different transmission instead of screwing with this one. I can find a dozen of them, with warranty, at various salvage yards, for ~$300. or less.

Just my 2 cents.Thanks for the reply. Yes I am looking at second hand ones too, as new ones are too expensive, $2400 in Australia!

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