Apex Arc 8 Fitment Questions!

[slowthirtysix]

Hi all,

I'm just about ready to put on my new wheel setup and I would just like another opinion. I've done extensive reading on the forums, Facebook pages, as well as call Apex. I haven't seen many people run this exact setup so any input would help. Anyways, I have 97 Coupe, completely stock aside from KW variant 1 coilovers. (Refer to picture for ride height.) I'm looking to put her on Arc 8's, 17x9 ET 30, wrapped in 245/40/17 pilot super sports. To my understanding, the front would need camber plates which I plan on picking up. (Ground control street) And it would also need a modest roll in the rear for them to fit. I plan on running -2.3 ish camber in the front and about -1.5 in the rear. In addition to that, i was advised to put a 5mm space up front to clear the coilover. I do not mind raising the car but i'm curious if these modifications would suffice to fit these wheels.
http://i68.tinypic.com/fokt5c.jpg

[Braymond141]

My brother runs this. You will need a modest roll at -2 rear camber, aggressive roll at -1.5. I think he still struggles with rubbing at -2 without destroying his quarters rolling too much.

[slowthirtysix]

My brother runs this. You will need a modest roll at -2 rear camber, aggressive roll at -1.5. I think he still struggles with rubbing at -2 without destroying his quarters rolling too much.

did he remove the sealant that is in the rear fender? and whats the max amount of camber i can get on a stock rear setup?

[Braymond141]

did he remove the sealant that is in the rear fender? and whats the max amount of camber i can get on a stock rear setup?

I do not know.

-2

I should also note he’s running Conti tires. Michelin run larger than most other brands. You may struggle more with rubbing.

[slowthirtysix]

I do not know.

-2

I should also note he’s running Conti tires. Michelin run larger than most other brands. You may struggle more with rubbing.

i appreciate the help. im just getting very mixed responses. some people are saying that stated above would be sufficient, and apex said so as well. however your brother is having rubbing issues at -2.0. what tire size is he running on the contis?

[Braymond141]

245/40/17

[scooper]

why not go with ET42 ones if you must go with 17x9? You'll need 12.5mm spacers up front for sure to clear struts.

[slowthirtysix]

why not go with ET42 ones if you must go with 17x9? You'll need 12.5mm spacers up front for sure to clear struts.


because the concave wheels are so much more appealing and aggressive. well i purchased a 5mm spacer as per recommendation of apex, but i have a 15mm one as well. i was told i'd have no problem running a 5mm spacer up front with -2.5 camber in the front with the setup i seek.

[mldyanks213]

I was told by apex that 17x9 et30 concave with 245/40 tires should fit in the front with slight roll in the rear. I am running h&r sport/Bilstein sport on my 1999 m3 coupe. mounting the wheels this week so i could confirm. 5mm spacer up front needed with a BBK

[TostitoBandito]

I've also seen some people go half and half, with the ET42's in rear and the ET30's in front. The ET30 should easily fit in front with a 245/40 and no spacer (I use a 12mm spacer with an ET42 which is the same thing, and have GC coilovers), and the ET42 will fit in the rear with no roll required.

Anyways, yeah I think your general assessment is correct. You will certainly need an aggressive rear fender roll to fit an ET30 back there, along with at least 2 degrees of camber.

[Midnightfreak12]

Braymond is right,

you'll want -2 degree in the rear minimum with a modest roll to attempt to have a good time, even then under compression it'll rub on the inside of the wheel well. With the 9.0" et 30 set up in the rear, you're allowing the "rim" of your wheel to come closer to your fender. I'm running Apex arc 8 17x9.5" Et 35 all around with a 5mm spacer up front and -2.5 degree, no spacer in the rear and -2.0 degree camber with a 245/40/17 MPSS in my signature picture. This made the MPSS "stretch" just a little but enough for my "modest" roll to help out a bit, still rubs on hard compression though. The wheel is slightly wider than the 9.0" but the 35 offset vs the 30 allowed the barrel to come closer to the shock rather than more outward to the fender and require a more aggressive roll.

[pbonsalb]

I have the 17x10 ET25 coming. And a set of Hard V2 flares. For now, I will run 275/40 and 255/40 since I have them. On 17x9 ET42 now with those tires. Hard roll and pull rear and spacer up front.

[mitch500]

Hi all,

I'm just about ready to put on my new wheel setup and I would just like another opinion. I've done extensive reading on the forums, Facebook pages, as well as call Apex. I haven't seen many people run this exact setup so any input would help. Anyways, I have 97 Coupe, completely stock aside from KW variant 1 coilovers. (Refer to picture for ride height.) I'm looking to put her on Arc 8's, 17x9 ET 30, wrapped in 245/40/17 pilot super sports. To my understanding, the front would need camber plates which I plan on picking up. (Ground control street) And it would also need a modest roll in the rear for them to fit. I plan on running -2.3 ish camber in the front and about -1.5 in the rear. In addition to that, i was advised to put a 5mm space up front to clear the coilover. I do not mind raising the car but i'm curious if these modifications would suffice to fit these wheels.
http://i68.tinypic.com/fokt5c.jpgWhat spacers are you running in that photo with the ds2's?

[blckstrm]

Hi all,

I'm just about ready to put on my new wheel setup and I would just like another opinion. I've done extensive reading on the forums, Facebook pages, as well as call Apex. I haven't seen many people run this exact setup so any input would help. Anyways, I have 97 Coupe, completely stock aside from KW variant 1 coilovers. (Refer to picture for ride height.) I'm looking to put her on Arc 8's, 17x9 ET 30, wrapped in 245/40/17 pilot super sports. To my understanding, the front would need camber plates which I plan on picking up. (Ground control street) And it would also need a modest roll in the rear for them to fit. I plan on running -2.3 ish camber in the front and about -1.5 in the rear. In addition to that, i was advised to put a 5mm space up front to clear the coilover. I do not mind raising the car but i'm curious if these modifications would suffice to fit these wheels.


This is my setup. 17x9 ET30 concave Arc-8s w/ 245/40 PSSs all around. (Billies and H&R Sports).

People aren't considering the offset for some of the comments here.

You don't need anything for these to fit up front. You can run normal settings and be fine. Repeat - you don't need camber plates for these to fit up front. You don't even need a roll up front.

In the back... there is a lot of work to do.

You'll need a heavy roll and some amount of flare, and you will also need to pound out the inner fender (about 2-4 inches up from the lip on the inside). Also, you will rub in the back (2 o'clock on driver rear and 10 o'clock on pass rear) where the rear bumper cover meets the fender. I have mud flaps, and the're slowly being eaten away where the tires rub under full compression. I still need a little more flare at that bumper cover / fender joint, but I only get rubbing when I have kids in the back and hit some major compression.

[Edit]

Should have mentioned - I switched from H&R OE Sports to H&R Sports when one of my springs failed (yes, just randomly failed while it was sitting in the garage. I was leaning against the trunk when the front pass spring broke. Pretty random. But I digress), and get more rubbing now than before, but I was always making some contact. I have the thick E46 Convertible spring pads (3/4" if I remember), but you'll rub when compressed unless you really get some flare at that joint (And it can be a bit problematic). If you don't bottom out much, you may want to do it progressively until it's infrequent enough you can live with it.

[lbennyboobool]

I'm running 17x9 et 30 with 245/40s and TRM coilovers

I have a 10mm spacer up front and a good roll in the rear and about -1.5 degree camber all the way around. Doesn't rub at all.

I did remove the sealant in the rear and cut the lip off and rolled the excess for a tighter roll

Hopefully that helps

[Moron95M3]

and you will also need to pound out the inner fender (about 2-4 inches up from the lip on the inside).



x100000, this is the biggest overlooked thing in the rear. It's needed more than the roll/pull.

I run 255/40s on an ET35 and had to hammer out the rear. (in the -1.5 camber range). I did roll and slight pull but I don't think I was actually rubbing on the arch, it was all on the inner fender.

[blckstrm]

x100000, this is the biggest overlooked thing in the rear. It's needed more than the roll/pull.

I run 255/40s on an ET35 and had to hammer out the rear. (in the -1.5 camber range). I did roll and slight pull but I don't think I was actually rubbing on the arch, it was all on the inner fender.

LOL - and for everyone else reading, that's why it's this x100000! You keep rolling and rolling and start flaring and it seems like you should have enough clearance that you're not rubbing, and yet it rubs again. But it's rubbing up inside, not at the lip. So it doesn't take as much flare as I put in - that was the fault of not understanding it was rubbing up inside the fender.

Also, I did not remove the sealant, nor cut the lip off. But I'm good everywhere except that joint. And because of the tie in with bumper cover there, you need to be careful you don't break anything when trying to flare it out back there. I'd give it another go with the roller, but I moved from Dallas where my friends had one and don't know anyone down here who has one.

I never gave measurements. I started with stock front camber and was fine, though now I have my hats swapped. (And despite people saying you'll get good tread life with zero toe, I have not. But the car is so much more responsive I can't go back).

I have a decent amount of camber in back (-2.0) and rubbed some with the H&R EO Sports, and rub a little more now with the H&R Sports. I added a 15mm spring pad (added, not swapped) and it helped some.

[slowthirtysix]

What spacers are you running in that photo with the ds2's?

i'm running a 15mm spacer up front, nothing in the rear

- - - Updated - - -

i appreciate everyone on the help. ill get these tires mounted soon and get back to all of you. now, what is everyones definition of a LIGHT roll and an AGGRESSIVE roll? i feel as if these are lightly tossed around are my general grasp on how much roll will throw of which category it goes into.

[slowthirtysix]

as for the issue of rubbing against the wheel well, wouldnt a simple fix of raising the car help? if not, what do you do in that situation?

[blckstrm]

as for the issue of rubbing against the wheel well, wouldnt a simple fix of raising the car help? if not, what do you do in that situation?

You just pound it out. The fender is double walled, so the metal on the outside is safe. You just take a sledge, get in the wheel well, and pound it outward.

[Gene V]

did he remove the sealant that is in the rear fender?

I don't think you will get much of a roll without removing the sealant...PIA...

[adamnur]

I can tell you my setup which might help.

I have 17x9.5 Arc-8, et35
-2 rear camber (iirc), -2.5 front (shims)
245/40 htr-z iii tires
10mm front spacer to clear PSS9 (due to shims tipping the top of the wheel wheel in but not the strut. Camber plates you may not need spacers if at ET30)
Lowered almost all the way down front, maybe 5-7mm left to come down in the rear collars

I used to run 255/35 which fit as well, but had to raise the front about 1cm which altered my alignment settings when putting them on for the track so ditched them for 245s.

Rears are rolled tight, unfortunately, over the sealant as done by a previous shop, so not as good of a roll as can be. Fronts are rolled as well.

I would think you'd be fine with the 17x9 and a modest roll in the rear.

[M52 POWER!]

I have 17x8.5 ARC8's squared.
-2.6 camber front
-1.8 camber rear
12.5mm spacers on all 4
Semi-aggressive roll and it just barely doesn't rub

[TostitoBandito]

Since we're compiling info:

17x9 ET42 ARC8's with 245/40-17 Hankook RS4 tires
-2.5 camber front (up to -3.5 when I go to the track)
-2.0 camber rear
12mm spacers front, no spacers rear
no fender roll
ride height is about 1 inch below stock front and rear

[golgo13]

People do indeed use the 17x9" ET30 on the front of their E36's. It's a great looking wheel with it's concavity and because of it's lower offset and slightly narrower width than the 17x9.5" it clears almost any coilover set up while not requiring wheel spacers. We recommend using a 235/40/17 tire on this wheel unless you have camber plates then you can go with a wider tire. The 17x9.5" ET35 is actually a more ideal wheel for the rear of an E36 with stock fenders because it's combination of higher offset and wider width brings the wheel 11mm towards the inside of the car(away from the fender) compared to the 17x9" ET30.

Overall if you are looking for concave wheels on your E36 the 17x9" ET30 and 17x9.5" ET35 set up is great for those with minimal negative camber in the front. The 17x9.5" ET35 square set up is good for those that are looking to fit wider tires up front and have the supporting modifications to fit it (camber plates, oem style front suspension or coilover equipped with 6" linear race spring, and 5mm wheel spacers). Since this is our wide wheel and tire fitment guide all of our concave 17's on the E36 chassis are a very tough fit when using wider than 245/40/17 tires and that is why you do not see many track cars using them.

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=428767

[slowthirtysix]

http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=428767


i read every single post of this thread, and everyone seems to be running different setups than the one posted unfortunately. i needed more information as for fender rolling and there were a plethora of different setups within that thread that didnt quite help me, which is why i created my own post. im very meticulous and want to ensure i have all necessary information before executing.

- - - Updated - - -


I can tell you my setup which might help.

I have 17x9.5 Arc-8, et35
-2 rear camber (iirc), -2.5 front (shims)
245/40 htr-z iii tires
10mm front spacer to clear PSS9 (due to shims tipping the top of the wheel wheel in but not the strut. Camber plates you may not need spacers if at ET30)
Lowered almost all the way down front, maybe 5-7mm left to come down in the rear collars

I used to run 255/35 which fit as well, but had to raise the front about 1cm which altered my alignment settings when putting them on for the track so ditched them for 245s.

Rears are rolled tight, unfortunately, over the sealant as done by a previous shop, so not as good of a roll as can be. Fronts are rolled as well.

I would think you'd be fine with the 17x9 and a modest roll in the rear.


i appreciate the detailed answer, thank you. im not looking to remove the sealant, but i will if i have to. my fear is that by removing the sealant, water and debris will get in there, thus causing rust.

[TostitoBandito]

i appreciate the detailed answer, thank you. im not looking to remove the sealant, but i will if i have to. my fear is that by removing the sealant, water and debris will get in there, thus causing rust.

What you do is remove the sealant from between the fender lip, roll the fender, and then apply some sort of paint or protective undercoating on top of your freshly rolled fender (inside the wheel well, not on the body obviously). The 3M undercoating would probably work fine.

[slowthirtysix]

What you do is remove the sealant from between the fender lip, roll the fender, and then apply some sort of paint or protective undercoating on top of your freshly rolled fender (inside the wheel well, not on the body obviously). The 3M undercoating would probably work fine.

interesting. that makes sense. if it isnt too much trouble, could you supply me with a link to the 3M undercoating you're referring to?

[TostitoBandito]

https://smile.amazon.com/3M-08881-Undercoating-16-oz/dp/B0002NUO5Q/

I think that's more or less what I've had. It's useful for touchups where paint has been scraped off. It's sort of like bedliner material; kind of like paint except more durable and textured. Good for wheel wells, under the car, or anywhere else that's gonna get hit by rocks and whatnot. I used it when I spun my car at the track and took a chunk out of my x-brace, to cover up the bare metal once I cleaned it up with a grinder. I also coated my replacement fuel filter cover with it to give it a little more durability against scrapes.

[slowthirtysix]

https://smile.amazon.com/3M-08881-Undercoating-16-oz/dp/B0002NUO5Q/

I think that's more or less what I've had. It's useful for touchups where paint has been scraped off. It's sort of like bedliner material; kind of like paint except more durable and textured. Good for wheel wells, under the car, or anywhere else that's gonna get hit by rocks and whatnot. I used it when I spun my car at the track and took a chunk out of my x-brace, to cover up the bare metal once I cleaned it up with a grinder. I also coated my replacement fuel filter cover with it to give it a little more durability against scrapes.


i appreciate the info, thanks a ton.

[blckstrm]

i appreciate the info, thanks a ton.

I didn't remove the sealant (and I have the exact fitment you're looking at, down to the actual tire).

I don't think you need to remove the sealant (like you, I didn't want to remove it and open the door to rust). Again, the only place I rub is at the junction between the fender and the bumper cover, and I think a little more effort there would do the job. That is the only place I'd consider trying to scrape out the sealant if nothing else worked.

[slowthirtysix]

I didn't remove the sealant (and I have the exact fitment you're looking at, down to the actual tire).

I don't think you need to remove the sealant (like you, I didn't want to remove it and open the door to rust). Again, the only place I rub is at the junction between the fender and the bumper cover, and I think a little more effort there would do the job. That is the only place I'd consider trying to scrape out the sealant if nothing else worked.



leaning more towards rolling over the sealant now, i'll have to see what my guy recommends. are you sure you're not rubbing against your mudflaps?

[pbonsalb]

If you run stock size tires at near stock ride height and don’t heavily load the car or track it, you might be OK with mild rolling and no sealant removal on ET30 wheels. Might is the answer. It’s a lot harder to do the job right after you have done it wrong and rolled against the sealant. I suppose then you could tilt the wheels in at the top with negative camber that would be excessive for street use.

[slowthirtysix]

If you run stock size tires at near stock ride height and don’t heavily load the car or track it, you might be OK with mild rolling and no sealant removal on ET30 wheels. Might is the answer. It’s a lot harder to do the job right after you have done it wrong and rolled against the sealant. I suppose then you could tilt the wheels in at the top with negative camber that would be excessive for street use.


a couple of users said i may have some luck by using a heat gun and heating the sealant before hand, it'll allow for more flex and i can compress it thus making a tighter roll while still retaining the sealant. my biggest concern is how to efficiently get OUT the sealant without destroying your fenders, and all the additional moisture and debris that'll accumulate. not looking to have my car rust on the fenders

[blckstrm]

leaning more towards rolling over the sealant now, i'll have to see what my guy recommends. are you sure you're not rubbing against your mudflaps?

I DO rub on the mud flaps - their top connection is at the same place the bumper cover connects to the fender. The way they attach is a bit odd, too, so they don't stay in position very well. When they roll forward a little they rub worse, too.

I think getting the sealant hot and rolling it like that is the way to go. You really need a little flare at that joint anyway, so the extra couple mm you'd get from removing the sealant wouldn't really change that - and would potentially open the door to problems. I've read about people trimming the bumper cover on the inside, but I'm not going to mess with it. The tire can rub on it and push it out without hurting anything - and over time it will slowly wear down to where it doesn't rub anymore.

And I should mention again - I'm on H&R Sports with a thick 15mm E46 convertible spring pad plus the original 5 mm pad, which should put me around 1/2" lower than stock. I can't remember ever rubbing when I'm in the car alone, even on track. Having someone else in the front will occasionally cause some rubbing under a lot of compression. Kids in the back seat (and I do have a sedan) or something heavy in the trunk will cause rubbing under less severe compression.

One other thing - I really only rub on my driver's side. I've tried to loosen my subframe and center it better, tried to make sure it's the same height on both sides, but it didn't make any difference.

[PITT M3 RR]

I have 17x9.5 et35 square on 245s

pss9 with linear conversion up front (minor roll), no spacer and 1 degree on the GC street camber plates, so add that to whatever stock is.

Rear 12.5mm spacer, sealer removed, heavy roll/pull sealed with RTV, stock camber arms maxed. Minor rub on heavy entry angles. If I take off the rear spacers I have tons of room...almost looks bad. If you’re willing to put the work into the fenders, you’ll have no issues.

[adamnur]

I highly advise cutting out the sealant. Once it's rolled over, there's no going back without butchering the lip or cutting it off entirely.

My street wheels are even tighter fitment than my Apex, and because of the roll over sealant, I do not have the extra 5mm I really would have needed. As a result, the inner fender paint was burned off after one short test ride over a bump, so that had to be painted with the 3M stuff. I'd rather have covered the inner fender lip with the 3M paint than the outer. I then had to slightly pull the rear fenders to fit. I actually like how they look now more, but I'd still rather have not had to do it.

Just do it once and do it right and you'll have nothing to worry about.

[mldyanks213]

I just installed apex arc 8's 17x9 with 245/40 and front cleared fine. rears rubbed for sure. rolling fenders. i took some of the sealant off the inner fenders in the rear and sprayed it with thin coat after the roll. negative camber will definitely help but might be excessive for street but your call. i have bilstein/h&r sport lowered pretty low and fronts seem ok. could use some rustoleum spray to get between the inner lip on the rear so you can get a tighter roll. then undercoating after

[Gregarious7]

Yep I got the 9.5 Et35 in back and 9" ET30 in front. The fronts fit fine without a spacer or anything else.

However, my rears rub on hard turns such as highway entrance ramps. I just got my fenders rolled, but not all the sealant was cut out. I'm still rubbing on the hard turns.

So I figure my only option is to have a reputable body shop cut the lip out and paint it....?

Oh well, I need some other body work anyway.

P.S: I should mention I'm on stock springs and still rubbing in the rear....

[blckstrm]

Yep I got the 9.5 Et35 in back and 9" ET30 in front. The fronts fit fine without a spacer or anything else.

However, my rears rub on hard turns such as highway entrance ramps. I just got my fenders rolled, but not all the sealant was cut out. I'm still rubbing on the hard turns.

So I figure my only option is to have a reputable body shop cut the lip out and paint it....?

Oh well, I need some other body work anyway.

P.S: I should mention I'm on stock springs and still rubbing in the rear....

Did you pound out the inner fender, or just roll the lip? You didn't mention it, and it's necessary for this to fit without rubbing.

[SIIDEWAYS]

Yikes!! All this talk about pounding, hammering, rolling, cracking, etc...do none of you care about your cars?!? Wow, why not just get wheels/tires that actually FIT?? Or do you just consider your cars jalopies and you simply don't care? I guess I'm still of the mindset that these are $40K+ cars (I actually paid more than this) and would never dare take a hammer to my hooptie (just an affectionate term). A perfect example of this is the beautiful red E92 M3 on the 20" BBS LMRs on the Rides & Events page...do you think that car's owner would take a hammer and "pound" out his fenders? Lord have mercy...

[Gregarious7]

We just rolled the lip...and the dude didn't take out all the sealant. But it's already been rolled over, so no going back now unless I want to cut the lip off. Which I am considering.

And to the guy above...I seriously doubt that the guy with E92 with 20" LM's fit those without any modifications. As for why I don't just get wheels that fit...the concave ARC 8's are absolutely beautiful...that's why. Beauty is pain. And my goal is to make them fit without being able to see any fender mods from the outside of the car.

My thinking is....if you can't see the fender modification from the outside of the car...then it's still as good as stock. That's why I don't want to pull/flare the fenders.

[pbonsalb]

I took a hammer and pounded my inner liners and I rolled and pulled as hard as I could. I drive and enjoy the car. It’s not a show car. Bought it 13 years ago with 44k miles and it has 130k now. Built motor, turbocharged, coilovers, etc. Have Apex ARC8 17x9ET42 on it, now with 275/40 rear and 255/40 front. Just received my 17x10 ET25 ARC8s, so I will be cutting the arches off, pushing up the inner metal and rewelding it, and riveting on Hard flares. To me it’s just a car for my amusement. I would have zero interest in a stock E36M3 — I put a supercharger on mine less than 6 months after I bought it.

[Gregarious7]

What sort of tires should I plan on getting to help me fit these? I already have seen someone comment that the Michelin Pilot sports run large...is there a tire that runs smaller??

The plan is to go 225s on front and 245's on back.

[TostitoBandito]

Check the various tire width measurements (section width and tread width) on tirerack before you buy. They're generally pretty accurate. Make sure and read the definitions of those measurements. For example, they are made on wheels of specific sizes, so if yours are wider you may need to increase the measurements slightly (you can also find good estimates for those adjustments online).

As a general rule, the higher performance summer/track tires tend to run wider than others. I'm referring mostly to the "extreme performance" category, which is a notch above something like the Michelin Pilot Sport 4S. And of course racing slicks.

[blckstrm]

We just rolled the lip...and the dude didn't take out all the sealant. But it's already been rolled over, so no going back now unless I want to cut the lip off. Which I am considering.

And to the guy above...I seriously doubt that the guy with E92 with 20" LM's fit those without any modifications. As for why I don't just get wheels that fit...the concave ARC 8's are absolutely beautiful...that's why. Beauty is pain. And my goal is to make them fit without being able to see any fender mods from the outside of the car.

My thinking is....if you can't see the fender modification from the outside of the car...then it's still as good as stock. That's why I don't want to pull/flare the fenders.

I mentioned this on the first page of this thread.

This isn't the lip rubbing - this is the inner wall of the double-walled rear fender.

Get your car up in the air, take off your rear tires, lay down with the back of your head against your brake rotor, and look about 2-4 inches up from the lip on the inside. You'll see where you're rubbing.

Again, the rear fender is double walled, so you can pound the inner fender outward with a sledge and it will not affect anything on the outer wall / outer painted surface of the car. In fact, here is a picture of a rear fender cut (for bolt-on flares on a race car - not my car) so you can get an idea of what it looks like inside. It doesn't take much to make the rubbing stop, and there's plenty of room there.

If you're especially worried, wrap some tape around the head of your hammer and go bit by bit.

I almost guarantee this is where you're rubbing - not at the lip. No need to cut the lip.

But anyway, check this out and let me know what you find...

627361

[CblockM3]

What sort of tires should I plan on getting to help me fit these? I already have seen someone comment that the Michelin Pilot sports run large...is there a tire that runs smaller??

The plan is to go 225s on front and 245's on back.

If you are doing square concave's run square tires. The fronts are easy to fit, doesn't make sense to run a smaller tire there and lose the benefit of having a square setup.

[blckstrm]

If you are doing square concave's run square tires. The fronts are easy to fit, doesn't make sense to run a smaller tire there and lose the benefit of having a square setup.

^Amen.

[Gregarious7]

Oh....no shit blackstrm?? If that's the case then yeah....i can pound that out.
That's what she said.

Thanks for the help yall! Looking forward to hard turns without rubs.
Thats what she said.

[blckstrm]

Oh....no shit blackstrm?? If that's the case then yeah....i can pound that out.
That's what she said.

Thanks for the help yall! Looking forward to hard turns without rubs.
Thats what she said.

I did the same thing as you - kept rolling more and more, and couldn't figure out why. Finally I took the tire off and took a good, long look around and figured it out.

You've had yours on a while - there will be rub marks that will tell you where you're still rubbing.

...

Just get that rear up in the air and take a good, long look.
That's what she said.

[adamnur]

Yikes!! All this talk about pounding, hammering, rolling, cracking, etc...do none of you care about your cars?!? Wow, why not just get wheels/tires that actually FIT?? Or do you just consider your cars jalopies and you simply don't care? I guess I'm still of the mindset that these are $40K+ cars (I actually paid more than this) and would never dare take a hammer to my hooptie (just an affectionate term). A perfect example of this is the beautiful red E92 M3 on the 20" BBS LMRs on the Rides & Events page...do you think that car's owner would take a hammer and "pound" out his fenders? Lord have mercy...

The fender roller has been used for decades and if done properly, does absolutely nothing to the appearance of the fender and allows for more room inside. Why do it? Wider wheels, wider tires, more traction come to mind. Some people pull them for even more room. Who really cares what some guy with an E92 M3 does...people with newer cars still modify them and roll fenders.

If rolling a piece of sheet metal scares you then that's fine, but there's no reason to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it if you'd rather not do it. There's room to appreciate how all of us enjoy our cars.

[blckstrm]

The fender roller has been used for decades and if done properly, does absolutely nothing to the appearance of the fender and allows for more room inside. Why do it? Wider wheels, wider tires, more traction come to mind. Some people pull them for even more room. Who really cares what some guy with an E92 M3 does...people with newer cars still modify them and roll fenders.

If rolling a piece of sheet metal scares you then that's fine, but there's no reason to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it if you'd rather not do it. There's room to appreciate how all of us enjoy our cars.

This Yahoo has only read enough of this thread to misunderstand what we're describing. Late to the party, didn't catch up, then throws a bunch of bullshit out there.

Others pointed out the very car he's referring to likely has rolled fenders as well.

This guy doesn't know his @$$hole from his elbow.

[pbonsalb]

I have read the entire thread and agree with everything adamnur wrote. I think it’s SIIDEWAYS who did not read the thread and jumped in without a proper understanding.

[blckstrm]

I have read the entire thread and agree with everything adamnur wrote. I think it’s SIIDEWAYS who did not read the thread and jumped in without a proper understanding.

Sorry if I wasn't clear - that's exactly what I meant.

[SIIDEWAYS]

The fender roller has been used for decades and if done properly, does absolutely nothing to the appearance of the fender and allows for more room inside. Why do it? Wider wheels, wider tires, more traction come to mind. Some people pull them for even more room. Who really cares what some guy with an E92 M3 does...people with newer cars still modify them and roll fenders.

If rolling a piece of sheet metal scares you then that's fine, but there's no reason to adopt a holier-than-thou attitude about it if you'd rather not do it. There's room to appreciate how all of us enjoy our cars.

Hey, I'm all for wider wheels/tires and more traction, I was simply saying it can be done without having to take a hammer or a fender roller to a car. I run 255s on a 9.5 inch wheel without having to modify anything (which is a softer way to describe the pounding/hammering/stretching, risking the paint, etc.). And not wanting to do so isn't necessarily a "holier-than-thou" attitude. So I was perfectly clear on what was being discussed and I was simply in disagreement.

Regarding some other people's responses, it's funny how I express my view and then the insults come hurling out when I never attacked anyone. My car isn't a show car, and I love to drive it as much or more as others love to drive theirs, so not sure how we ended up on different pages there. Oh, and btw, the statement about the red e92 M3 "likely" having modified fenders? I suppose we could simply ask him so none of us have to assume anything, but my guess is that modification was probably unlikely and unnecessary as those BBS wheels are available with specifically correct width and offset for that application.

Anyway, enough said from me about it, so anyone who wishes to continue lashing out or attacking me, you'll be doing so unilaterally. Happy motoring!

[blckstrm]

Hey, I'm all for wider wheels/tires and more traction, I was simply saying it can be done without having to take a hammer or a fender roller to a car. I run 255s on a 9.5 inch wheel without having to modify anything (which is a softer way to describe the pounding/hammering/stretching, risking the paint, etc.). And not wanting to do so isn't necessarily a "holier-than-thou" attitude. So I was perfectly clear on what was being discussed and I was simply in disagreement.

Regarding some other people's responses, it's funny how I express my view and then the insults come hurling out when I never attacked anyone. My car isn't a show car, and I love to drive it as much or more as others love to drive theirs, so not sure how we ended up on different pages there. Oh, and btw, the statement about the red e92 M3 "likely" having modified fenders? I suppose we could simply ask him so none of us have to assume anything, but my guess is that modification was probably unlikely and unnecessary as those BBS wheels are available with specifically correct width and offset for that application.

Anyway, enough said from me about it, so anyone who wishes to continue lashing out or attacking me, you'll be doing so unilaterally. Happy motoring!

I wouldn't act quite that innocent, but whatever floats your boat.

As for being unwilling to roll - there's a reason every M3 (sadly except ours) has flares from the factory. Going after a wider track is one of the best things you can do for your car's handling.

Track width has a significant positive impact on both grip and handling. This isn't about wider tires. Wider track more evenly distributes weight when cornering, allowing the inside tire to do its job better and relieving load from the outside tire so it also can provide more grip before letting go.

Some perspective on our family of cars.

The E30 M3 is actually 1-2 mm wider front and back than the E36 M3. Totally going the wrong way here. E30 M3 is also (obviously) wider than the E36 328.

E46 was a huge leap forward - even an E46 330 is 49mm front / 39mm rear wider than an E36 M3. E46 M3 is 80-90 mm wider than E36 M3. And an E46 M3 is still about 10mm wider than an E92 335.

E92 M3 isn't bad, either - E92 M3 is 13-30 mm wider than E46 M3.

In summary, except for the E36: BMW has pushed to make M cars wider, and successive generation cars wider as well. Next-gen base cars are NOT wider than the previous M3, though some are decently close.

The E36 is the exception - the base car is narrower than the previous car, and even the M3 is narrower than the previous M3 as well. On top of that, the E36 M3 is also narrower than the succeeding E46 base car.

So with that perspective, I was able to increase my track by 60mm in front and 48mm rear compared to stock. That more than closes the gap with the base E46, and is more than half the distance between stock E36 M3 and E46 M3.

Not that this is a numbers game - no one sits around and compares track widths like they do hp numbers. BMW has done this for a reason.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I did this for a reason, too. This was one of the best things I've done for my car - completely transformed it.

And on top of all the width gains, the 17x9 et30 wheels from Apex are the lightest ones they make - 16.5 pounds. That's a half pound lighter than the flat faced 17x9 et 42 wheels, and a huge 4.5 / 5.5 lbs lighter than the lightest 17" wheels BMW makes (the style 68 from the E46 sport package, which I had before the Apex wheels). It was like a second diff upgrade but without the higher revs on the highway.

All that benefit for a little body work on the inside of the fender that will never show and has no impact on the vehicle at all? Zero impact. As if a fender roll was brain surgery or rocket science.

And in front it bolts right up - no spacer required. You want to talk about modifications? I'd rather roll my fenders than roll on spacers. So to each his own.

I'll take that every day of the week, and twice on Sunday.

[TostitoBandito]

I run 255s on a 9.5 inch wheel without having to modify anything (which is a softer way to describe the pounding/hammering/stretching, risking the paint, etc.).

What offset and camber, and what tires? Also, what's your ride height?

I know in my case and everyone else's case I've seen (Apex, thread full of people running Apex 17x9's, etc...) anything wider than a 245 on a 17x9 ET42 in the rear will require some amount of fender work. That is, unless you run crazy stancebro camber or jack your ride height up. Hell, my 245's on 17x9's at -2 degrees camber don't have much room at my ride height which is about 1 inch below stock. 255's in the same tire wouldn't have a chance, let alone on a 9.5 inch wheel. Granted, tires vary and lower performance 255's might not be much wider than my 245's, so tire choice also matters.

[tvcasualty]

i call BS no way a 255 with 9.5s are fitting on an e36 without a roll at minimum

my 245s on 9"s rubbed with a roll till i gave it some decent camber

If I did it all over again I would have gone with 10+ inch wide wheels and flares. function>form for me

[adamnur]

Hey, I'm all for wider wheels/tires and more traction, I was simply saying it can be done without having to take a hammer or a fender roller to a car. I run 255s on a 9.5 inch wheel without having to modify anything (which is a softer way to describe the pounding/hammering/stretching, risking the paint, etc.). And not wanting to do so isn't necessarily a "holier-than-thou" attitude. So I was perfectly clear on what was being discussed and I was simply in disagreement.

Regarding some other people's responses, it's funny how I express my view and then the insults come hurling out when I never attacked anyone. My car isn't a show car, and I love to drive it as much or more as others love to drive theirs, so not sure how we ended up on different pages there. Oh, and btw, the statement about the red e92 M3 "likely" having modified fenders? I suppose we could simply ask him so none of us have to assume anything, but my guess is that modification was probably unlikely and unnecessary as those BBS wheels are available with specifically correct width and offset for that application.

Anyway, enough said from me about it, so anyone who wishes to continue lashing out or attacking me, you'll be doing so unilaterally. Happy motoring!

Nobody knows the full specs of your wheels and it could be possible to run 255s on a 9.5, but if you want to go lower, you can't. If you want a wider stance, you can't either. It's also possible you're running a tire that runs narrow closer to a 245. My street wheel 245 Michelins fit more like a 255.

But come on, you can't realistically state that you posted an objective disagreement with factual reasoning. It was quite condescending and anyone can detect that tone, so you had to expect some backlash.

In any case, I can appreciate the versatility in styling the E36, and some of that styling does involve modifying the stock body. If we all modified our cars the same and pushed no boundaries, there would be nothing left to talk about. So happy motoring indeed

[cmoody]

Do 17x9 ET42s with 255/40 extreme summer tires need anything more than a lip roll when used for aggressive autox and track duty? Currently on Dinan springs that dropped the rear less than 0.25in from stock and have about 2deg camber out back. I'd love to run the ET30s, but it seems like even with an aggressive roll and moderate pull they will still rub.

[TostitoBandito]

Do 17x9 ET42s with 255/40 extreme summer tires need anything more than a lip roll when used for aggressive autox and track duty? Currently on Dinan springs that dropped the rear less than 0.25in from stock and have about 2deg camber out back. I'd love to run the ET30s, but it seems like even with an aggressive roll and moderate pull they will still rub.

I was told by Apex and have read numerous similar accounts that this fitment will work with a mild roll in back and about 2 degrees of camber. In front you'll probably need 12mm spacers to clear the struts but no roll, and at least 2.5 degrees of camber (maybe less depending on ride height). I thought about doing this but decided I didn't want to bother with the roll and just got 245's.

Other factors in my decision:
245's will also have a stiffer sidewall than 255's on the same wheels since the 255's will bulge out a little more on the rim
255/40's are a taller tire than the 245/40's, which isn't exactly what I wanted

[cmoody]

I was told by Apex and have read numerous similar accounts that this fitment will work with a mild roll in back and about 2 degrees of camber. In front you'll probably need 12mm spacers to clear the struts but no roll, and at least 2.5 degrees of camber (maybe less depending on ride height). I thought about doing this but decided I didn't want to bother with the roll and just got 245's.

Other factors in my decision:
245's will also have a stiffer sidewall than 255's on the same wheels since the 255's will bulge out a little more on the rim
255/40's are a taller tire than the 245/40's, which isn't exactly what I wanted

Thanks for the info. It's interesting that 245s on 9" don't need any work, but I think it's reasonable for stock/near stock ride height. I'll have to see if the 245/40 vs. 255/40 feel is enough to outweigh my desire for the "fat tire" look and a slightly larger contact patch. That's more of a "need to save up for a while" problem, though...

[tvcasualty]

245's on 9"s in the front will still need work. i rolled the chit outta mine and they still made contact until i added neg camber. THat was with a ET34 and no spacer. im now at -3.2 degrees and a 5mm spacer and there is tons of room. I could fit 255s easy now front and rear.

[TostitoBandito]

They shouldn't. I run 17x9 ET42 in the front with a 12mm spacer to clear the strut (effectively ET30) and a relatively low ride height (around an inch below stock, maybe more) with no fender clearance issues at -2.5 degrees camber. That's with 245/40-17 Hankook RS4's which are basically track tires, and tires in this category tend to run wide. Given that I know people who've run 255's in front under unmolested fenders, I don't see how 245's should require any work unless your car is stanced or something. There's still ample clearance to play with there with my 245's on. 255's are also taller which means your ride height is probably going to need to be slightly higher than with 245's, providing a bit more clearance.

[slowthirtysix]

got them on guys!



http://i63.tinypic.com/wam7br.jpg

[blckstrm]

got them on guys!



http://i63.tinypic.com/wam7br.jpg

Looks fantastic! What did you wind up choosing for tires? I can see they're Michelins, but did you get PS4S or PSSs?

I just barely found out the PS4S became available sometime in the last month or so. I bought new tires two months ago (around when we started this conversation) and the PS4S wasn't available in 17 yet. Now it is - hopefully you scored some (or got a great deal on closeout PSSs).

[slowthirtysix]

thank you! and yes! pilot super sports all around.

[blckstrm]

thank you! and yes! pilot super sports all around.

I should also mention - on page 2 Tostito talked about removing the sealant before rolling. I've been rubbing more lately (maybe has something to do with my kids getting bigger? I don't know why...), so I decided to dig out some of the sealant at the top to get a tighter roll in the upper portion. I didn't want a tight radius down below, but up top - I wanted it bent up straight, not poking out toward the tire. So I though the top layer of sealant was holding me up. Nope...

If you've ever read about flaring the rear, you know there are a couple layers of metal. The fender lip actually has 2 layers of metal with sealant over them, and depending on whether the layers stay together or separate a little they can respond differently to a roll. Mine actually separated on the side where I have more clearance. The inner layer separated and creased higher than the actual fender lip, allowing it to roll tight. The other side stayed together, which made for a much fatter radius and roll - and was what caused me to rub on that side.

I scraped out some of the sealant, and bent the lip back down a little. I then bent the inner piece back and forth until it broke off. I filled it with some sealant, and then bent the lip back up where it was - but tighter. Everything seems to fit great now.

I never realized there were two layers even at the lip. Not sure how I'd have gone about fixing that early on, but was good to learn why the two sides weren't coming out the same.