Which/how many E36 M3s came with a LTW wing?

[nicksarazen]

I'm guessing this has been asked before, but I can't find a thread talking about it. Is it detailed on a master build sheet somewhere? Was it a custom order from the factory kinda thing only, or did dealerships randomly get M3s with the LTW wing (low or high rise) already installed? Do we know a % of cars that came with it?

[yurisuika]

Well I think it came on the LTWs and GTs, so whatever their production numbers are.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160908/6e157df293db14bfe51edfcdc6144922.jpg

[DocWyte]

We only got the LTW's here in the US. They were the only ones that came with the wing, although it was in the trunk, along with the stickers, front splitter etc. Some dealers put it on the car, others left it in the trunk and up to the owners discretion whether to install them or not...

[nicksarazen]

We only got the LTW's here in the US. They were the only ones that came with the wing, although it was in the trunk, along with the stickers, front splitter etc. Some dealers put it on the car, others left it in the trunk and up to the owners discretion whether to install them or not...

Wow, I wasn't aware of how rare the wing really is. Was there a period of time where you could order a wing from the dealership? I'm assuming that's how most came into existence?

[yurisuika]

356 M3 GT (50 RHD)

125 M3 LTW

15 M3-R

200 M3 GT2 (50 RHD)

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_M3
http://www.m3gtregister.com/

[Braymond141]

Gah... Already bad information being spewed.

First; There are a number of wing types produced by BMW. Second; Calling them all "LTW" is incorrect. I encourage you to learn the differences and names.

There are 3 wings that are commonly sought after and then a number of similar types that BMW produced but details on these wings are rare to come by. I have part numbers given to me by Jim E (he is the authority on all of this) that I haven't sorted through it yet. The common three are;
-GT Wing
-GT2 Wing
-"LTW" Wing

The GT wing is NOT limited to M3 GT cars. There are lots of GT wings out there. These are worth $600-1000 (without risers). There are Sedan and Coupe versions of this wing.

The GT2 wing introduced a third brake light molded into the base of the wing. This is a fairly rare part but again not limited to the number of "GT2" cars made. BMW sold these at dealers and sadly the molds were "accidentally" thrown away years ago. BMW will not remake these. These are worth $600-$3000 (without risers and that $3k price is for new and crazy).

The "LTW" wing is just a GT wing that PTG hand cut up to fit a third brake light into the base to meet DOT regulations. This is the rarest of the 3 common wings even though they are based on a common GT wing. The only hand cut wings that exist came with the 1xx Lightweight M3s. If you own a genuine LTW wing they can be worth $2000-4000 (with risers). A LTW owner missing a wing will probably pay a lot for this part.

Authentic risers are worth $600+ for a pair.

Then there are wicker bills/gurney flaps that BMW made for these wings. There are 3 types varying in length and edge style. Genuine gurney flaps are worth $400-800 EACH depending on condition and which length you have.

I own a GT2 wing, a genuine LTW wing, new genuine risers and 3 new genuine wickers bills (2 types).

There's more information and pictures in this thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2297648-E36-GT-(LTW)-and-GT2-Wing-Wickerbill-(Gurney-Flap)-Reproduction-and-Information

[rajicase]

^^Interesting, however 99% of us don't really care. When we think of high rise wing, we just call it the ltw. Some people care about the 3.5 bmws that came with whatever variation of the high rise wing, but most do not..

[DocWyte]

I had a genuine hand cut third brake light ltw wing on my first M3. My current M3 has a GT wing, no third brake light in it. With the exception of the brake light, they're identical...

[Braymond141]

^^Interesting, however 99% of us don't really care.

That's sad.

[TH3 Shifty]

That's sad... Silly kids

Fixed

[nicksarazen]

Gah... Already bad information being spewed.

First; There are a number of wing types produced by BMW. Second; Calling them all "LTW" is incorrect. I encourage you to learn the differences and names.

There are 3 wings that are commonly sought after and then a number of similar types that BMW produced but details on these wings are rare to come by. I have part numbers given to me by Jim E (he is the authority on all of this) that I haven't sorted through it yet. The common three are;
-GT Wing
-GT2 Wing
-"LTW" Wing

The GT wing is NOT limited to M3 GT cars. There are lots of GT wings out there. These are worth $600-1000 (without risers). There are Sedan and Coupe versions of this wing.

The GT2 wing introduced a third brake light molded into the base of the wing. This is a fairly rare part but again not limited to the number of "GT2" cars made. BMW sold these at dealers and sadly the molds were "accidentally" thrown away years ago. BMW will not remake these. These are worth $600-$3000 (without risers and that $3k price is for new and crazy).

The "LTW" wing is just a GT wing that PTG hand cut up to fit a third brake light into the base to meet DOT regulations. This is the rarest of the 3 common wings even though they are based on a common GT wing. The only hand cut wings that exist came with the 1xx Lightweight M3s. If you own a genuine LTW wing they can be worth $2000-4000 (with risers). A LTW owner missing a wing will probably pay a lot for this part.

Authentic risers are worth $600+ for a pair.

Then there are wicker bills/gurney flaps that BMW made for these wings. There are 3 types varying in length and edge style. Genuine gurney flaps are worth $400-800 EACH depending on condition and which length you have.

I own a GT2 wing, a genuine LTW wing, new genuine risers and 3 new genuine wickers bills (2 types).

There's more information and pictures in this thread: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2297648-E36-GT-(LTW)-and-GT2-Wing-Wickerbill-(Gurney-Flap)-Reproduction-and-Information

Thank you so much for all of this information...this is exactly what I was looking to learn by starting this thread. Some may not care, sure, but I 110% care. IMO, there's nothing more exciting than rare production parts and their variations. If you have any more info like production numbers, serial numbers, etc., please send my way if you can. Looking to learn all that I can!

[rajicase]

That's sad.

It is sad that 99% of the e36 owners/enthusiasts don't care about what wing came on a handful of cars two decades ago?

If you are interested in the minor variances of a small number of wings, thats cool. But people who don't care are no less of an enthusiast than you/the 1% who do care.

Some people are into spending $3 grand on a wing. And I get it, that is there thing. But at the end of the day, your $3 grand 20 year old wing is no better than the $600 high quality rep that is available.

The $3 grand I spent to make 500+whp seems like a better investment than a $3 grand wing that adds weight and drag, and ultimately slows you down. Not to mention it looks like ricey garbage to a lot of people, myself included.

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Fixed

Yes, silly kids who don't want to add a $3000 wing to their car that is going to slow it down , and looks like something I put on my civic 10 years ago on Need for Speed Underground on the Ps2. I also put nitrous... I mean NOS on it too.

[Braymond141]

It is sad that 99% of the e36 owners/enthusiasts don't care about what wing came on a handful of cars two decades ago?

If you are interested in the minor variances of a small number of wings, thats cool. But people who don't care are no less of an enthusiast than you/the 1% who do care.

Some people are into spending $3 grand on a wing. And I get it, that is there thing. But at the end of the day, your $3 grand 20 year old wing is no better than the $600 high quality rep that is available.

The $3 grand I spent to make 500+whp seems like a better investment than a $3 grand wing that adds weight and drag, and ultimately slows you down. Not to mention it looks like ricey garbage to a lot of people, myself included.

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Yes, silly kids who don't want to add a $3000 wing to their car that is going to slow it down , and looks like something I put on my civic 10 years ago on Need for Speed Underground on the Ps2. I also put nitrous... I mean NOS on it too.

If you have nothing to contribute to this thread, move along. Stop speaking for the majority of owners and stop assuming these details are not important or at the very least worth documenting. You are not an enthusiast if you cannot see the value in this information. By your logic we'll just call all wheels "round things" and all forms of forced induction "air compressors"... Etc etc.

[adamnur]

This is a silly argument. There is no right way to spend your money on these cars. I can appreciate a 500+whp turbo E36 and also a stock 240hp one with extended leather, power rear windows, LTW wing, every single rare option, etc.

No offense, but many have turbo'd S50/M50/M52/S52 and make significant power--doesn't make it less impressive, but certainly doesn't make it more impressive. Others have "destroyed" their cars and made them drift rats, but that's what they're into.

Finding accurate info like above is rare and appreciated by many, as the older these cars get, the less info like this is known. I can't believe these "how to mod" arguments still happen...even moreso that I spent time typing this.

[rajicase]

If you have nothing to contribut to this thread, move along. Stop speaking for the majority of owners and stop assuming these details are not important or at the very least worth documenting. You are not an enthusiast if you cannot see the value in this information. By your logic we'll just call all wheels "round things" and all forms of forced induction "air compressors"... Etc etc.

Im not an enthusiast because I don't care about a silly wing that came on a handful of cars? Well thanks for informing me of that. I thought I was a huge e36 enthusiast all along, but apparently not!

Look, I don't have problem with the information. And I think its totally cool that some people are into it. But I posted after your first post in this thread which was full of condescension towards people who aren't knowledgeable about a goofy wing. I don't know a damn thing about the LTW wings/GT or whatever. Why? Because I think they are ugly and tacky; why should I spend time learning about something that I think is gross? And how does that make me less of an enthusiast? It doesn't. It makes me a different kind of enthusiast. Get off your high horse man.

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This is a silly argument. There is no right way to spend your money on these cars. I can appreciate a 500+whp turbo E36 and also a stock 240hp one with extended leather, power rear windows, LTW wing, every single rare option, etc.

No offense, but many have turbo'd S50/M50/M52/S52 and make significant power--doesn't make it less impressive, but certainly doesn't make it more impressive. Others have "destroyed" their cars and made them drift rats, but that's what they're into.

Finding accurate info like above is rare and appreciated by many, as the older these cars get, the less info like this is known. I can't believe these "how to mod" arguments still happen...even moreso that I spent time typing this.

This isn't a how to mod argument. It is a no-need to be a D-bag to those who don't know the ins and outs of a 20 year old wing.

[adamnur]

Fair enough. I think there should a universal rule in the world not to be a d-bag but I am an idealist I guess.

On with the LTW--Did LTW buyers really have the items "in the trunk" as stated above with the install at their option?

[Braymond141]

Im not an enthusiast because I don't care about a silly wing that came on a handful of cars? Well thanks for informing me of that. I thought I was a huge e36 enthusiast all along, but apparently not!

Look, I don't have problem with the information. And I think its totally cool that some people are into it. But I posted after your first post in this thread which was full of condescension towards people who aren't knowledgeable about a goofy wing. I don't know a damn thing about the LTW wings/GT or whatever. Why? Because I think they are ugly and tacky; why should I spend time learning about something that I think is gross? And how does that make me less of an enthusiast? It doesn't. It makes me a different kind of enthusiast. Get off your high horse man.

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This isn't a how to mod argument. It is a no-need to be a D-bag to those who don't know the ins and outs of a 20 year old wing.

What is your contribution to this thread? I may hurt your feelings but I have something to offer in doing so (and this isn't even getting into the real specifics). All you have done is come in here with an uneducated view and bashing those that do give a damn. My douchebaggery hardly compares to yours at this point.

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On with the LTW--Did LTW buyers really have the items "in the trunk" as stated above with the install at their option?


Correct. There were probably cases of dealers doing this themselves.

581766

[rajicase]

Agree to disagree. Im out.

[boarder2k7]

Correct. There were probably cases of dealers doing this themselves.

<img src="http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=581766"/>

They came with an oil pan in the trunk?!?

Wow that's odd. Do you have a link to where that pic came from by any chance?

[MauiM3Mania]

Agree to disagree. Im out.

Thanks... it is appreciated. See my PM.

[MParallel]

200 GT2's, 50 RHD?

The 'GT2', officially named "M3 coupe special edition" was a UK special and only 50, all RHD were made.

Then there is also the 318i Class II special edition and the Clubsport edition that featured one of the listed spoilers.

[Jim E.]

Thank you so much for all of this information...this is exactly what I was looking to learn by starting this thread. Some may not care, sure, but I 110% care. IMO, there's nothing more exciting than rare production parts and their variations. If you have any more info like production numbers, serial numbers, etc., please send my way if you can. Looking to learn all that I can!

Some additional info attached.

Good thing forum rules don't require 99% interest, approval etc... in order to post. :eek:

[Braymond141]

They came with an oil pan in the trunk?!?

Wow that's odd. Do you have a link to where that pic came from by any chance?

They were upgraded parts that were included with the car. The normal single pickup oil pump and S50 oil pan were installed on the motor... It isn't like the car came with the crank exposed and parts for you to install.

Pic came from the big lettered water mark on the photo ;)

I have more photos of the new parts on some drives I don't have access to right now.

[MParallel]

Do wonder why BMW didn't just fit the dual pickup pump and sump. With things like a spoiler or even the brace I can see the logic, not so with the pump/sump.

[notMpowered]

^^Interesting, however 99% of us don't really care. When we think of high rise wing, we just call it the ltw. Some people care about the 3.5 bmws that came with whatever variation of the high rise wing, but most do not..
People not caring is no reason for him to not share the information. The OP does care.
Not caring doesn't mean someone can't tell you that you are wrong, when you are.

Some of the coolest parts of the 80s/90s BMWs are the variations of BMW motorsport parts and rare pieces that contribute to such an interesting history.

[rajicase]

You are 2 days late, the horse's corpse has long been carted away.

[notMpowered]

I didn't read far enough to know that you were leaving. Either way, its relevant.

[nicksarazen]

People not caring is no reason for him to not share the information. The OP does care.
Not caring doesn't mean someone can't tell you that you are wrong, when you are.

Some of the coolest parts of the 80s/90s BMWs are the variations of BMW motorsport parts and rare pieces that contribute to such an interesting history.

Appreciated as always, Chris. And very much agreed. Was hoping you'd see the thread and contribute - I know you've come across a lot of great info in your search for your GT2!

(@nickynothing on insta)

[notMpowered]

Ahh hey Nick! Most of my info comes from Braymond and Jim E.
Those guys are the encyclopedia of interesting parts.
The GT will be by far the easiest to find, and almost always there will be 1 on eBay.de although not often at reasonable prices. There has been one on eBay.co.uk for a couple months that is painted BRG, although not from an actual GT, from an individual car.
There are different bases for the coupes and sedans, but the bolt holes remain in the same spot since the top piece remains the same across all the wings. All will fit on any car, but the sedan wing will have slightly more overhang on the rear quarters if fitted on a coupe.
My advice is if you want one, buy any one thats available for the price/condition you are hoping for. I wanted the gt2 the most and got lucky, but I would have purchased any that came up at the time. They all look great in their own right.

[nicksarazen]

Ahh hey Nick! Most of my info comes from Braymond and Jim E.
Those guys are the encyclopedia of interesting parts.
The GT will be by far the easiest to find, and almost always there will be 1 on eBay.de although not often at reasonable prices. There has been one on eBay.co.uk for a couple months that is painted BRG, although not from an actual GT, from an individual car.
There are different bases for the coupes and sedans, but the bolt holes remain in the same spot since the top piece remains the same across all the wings. All will fit on any car, but the sedan wing will have slightly more overhang on the rear quarters if fitted on a coupe.
My advice is if you want one, buy any one thats available for the price/condition you are hoping for. I wanted the gt2 the most and got lucky, but I would have purchased any that came up at the time. They all look great in their own right.

I've always wanted to ask you - what happened when you got lucky on eBay? What was the luck? Was it listed with the wrong title or something?

[boarder2k7]

They were upgraded parts that were included with the car. The normal single pickup oil pump and S50 oil pan were installed on the motor... It isn't like the car came with the crank exposed and parts for you to install.

Pic came from the big lettered water mark on the photo ;)


Haha yeah I know x2. The later pics you posted with the letter from BMW explaining they void your warranty and are for off road use were something I hadn't heard before and explain why they weren't installed.

As for the watermark, I figured it was from an auction, and since it said it was pic 40/40 I was hoping for a link to the sale. I could search myself, but wanted you to do it for me ;)

[Midnightfreak12]

I've always wanted to ask you - what happened when you got lucky on eBay? What was the luck? Was it listed with the wrong title or something?

Probably just the luck of finding a GT2 in general. :P