M62 supercharger kit

[DeanC93]

Where can supercharger kits be got at sensible money? Even if I had the bracket to mount an m112 to the inlet I could make up the piping and get it mapped myself. I would rather a full kit though but not at the price they are from vf etc.
Anyone able to point me to someone?

[geargrinder]

Whole massive can of worms.

Search old threads.

The latest shot at a homebrewable adapter has been Toolmans setup. Search on him. He doesn't have a formal sponsor acct therefore you wont find formal offering but i understand he has set people up with parts. No affiliation or interest etc.

Agree the new kits are ridiculously priced but used ones pop up from time to time and sometimes deals can be had (being in EU you might find an ESS kit which is unicorn jizz to find over here)

[cazal740i]

Whole massive can of worms.

Search old threads.

The latest shot at a homebrewable adapter has been Toolmans setup. Search on him. He doesn't have a formal sponsor acct therefore you wont find formal offering but i understand he has set people up with parts. No affiliation or interest etc.

Agree the new kits are ridiculously priced but used ones pop up from time to time and sometimes deals can be had (being in EU you might find an ESS kit which is unicorn jizz to find over here)

crazy u say its the Unicorn.. I had an ESS S/C full kit for m62TU for my E38 740i Sport. In the kit was the Vortech V2 blower, All piping, fan clutch extender, Harmonic balancer with S/C belt adapter mounted, S/C new belt, instructions, SAI delete kit, S/C Mount bracket welded on to the Passenger side Engine mount( craziest thing u ever seen and a PITA to install with A/C compressor in the way), emission hoses and oil tap block... I had it for sale for a year on all boards for $3500...No biters until I posted it on CL.. That's when I finally sold it... Now I regret it...

572317572318

[geargrinder]

crazy u say its the Unicorn.. I had an ESS S/C full kit for m62TU for my E38 740i Sport. In the kit was the Vortech V2 blower, All piping, fan clutch extender, Harmonic balancer with S/C belt adapter mounted, S/C new belt, instructions, SAI delete kit, S/C Mount bracket welded on to the Passenger side Engine mount( craziest thing u ever seen and a PITA to install with A/C compressor in the way), emission hoses and oil tap block... I had it for sale for a year on all boards for $3500...No biters until I posted it on CL.. That's when I finally sold it... Now I regret it...



That's amazing. It def is the unicorn, that's the first pix of one I've seen stateside - I'm sure there are a few others, but I tried to source one when I was looking and even ESS dealers told me "no way, ESS doesn't want to sell them anymore and even if they let me place the order it probably will never come or take ages at best..." ...

I woulda snapped it for sure. I guarantee if you had it now you it would move fast and for more than that if you knew how and where to put the word out... assuming all parts and good condition etc. There are constantly guys popping up wanting blower kits for less than the VF new setup and the used kits that go for sale usually sell pretty fast. I stumbled on mine (used kit) on eBay and if I hadn't snapped it I am sure it would have been gone quickly. The only kits I know to have sat around for sale for a long time have been ones missing bits. Guys who pulled kits to sell a car but didn't take all the parts off, very often kits missing the tune because the guy over-wrote his DME w/ the stock tune before downloading it and so the new buyer has to have a custom or pay VF or Dinan $$ for one, etc. That's where kits sit around because the guy wants say $4k for a used kit but its' going to cost the buyer another $1k to get the tune to match and seller won't figure that in...

Thanks a ton for the pix. I've always wanted to scope one out. You're abs right that mount is crazy! The mount is the trickiest bit of engineering the centrifugal chargers.
In typical style, ESS seems to have done the most robust hardcore version - the VF and Dinan kits use some mediocre work arounds with supporting struts that go back to either the AC bracket (VF) or all the way back to the firewall (Dinan). They both work fine but its not as hard core as ESS solution clearly.

If you have more pix would love to see 'em.

[Mpowered02]

DeanC93...there's a thread over on BimmerBoost about positive displacement S/C's for the M62.
http://www.bimmerboost.com/showthread.php?44507-Eaton-Supercharger-Kit-E39-540i

You can skip the first 4 pages since it's mostly about the crap "kit" that some people have been suckered into from a scammer on eBay. Starting at Page 5, Toolman gets his "kit" up and running using an Eaton 112 blower from the older Jaguars...

[philly98540]

I've never even seen that ESS setup. Rare bird indeed. Look at the crazy stout mount! Looks good.

[wagons ho]

There is going to be a new supercharger option. It will be "our" kit. All interested parties will be involved in making sure concerns are addressed properly. Cost is low and performance should be phenomenal. No suckering, no profiting, no false promises so no bitching! I am sure that previous tuning can be used for baseline on this. I have been wondering why there is no thread on the forced induction category for m62, just a bunch of turbo e36. I posted a couple of pics. Water cooled intercooler, New Bosch electronic throttle included. Need a build thread moderator as mentioned. Let's do it.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm going to do this anyway, I just thought it might be easier and more fun to have other great minds thinking thru problems. Other fun fact, Eaton m122

[geargrinder]

I have been wondering why there is no thread on the forced induction category for m62

There have been lots of them over the years, just drowned out by the turbo-E36 crew who rule the roost over there (NTTAWWT).

What's stopping you from starting a thread either here or in F/I? Where have you posted pix?

Best of luck w/ the effort, just know you're the 15,932nd guy to show up and declare that you'd have it all sorted and in no time it would be...

http://cdn.theatlantic.com/static/mt/assets/international/mission%20accomplished%20banner%2023423423.jpg

Toolman is closest thing to a buyable kit w/ a TSS we have but even that's via private dealings w/ him at the moment so not like its public w a price and design and way to purchase etc.

[Mpowered02]

Yup...Toolman's is currently the only option in PD S/C's. I too will eventually be working on a setup for my car centered around a front throttle body Eaton TVS S/C, but make no claims whatsoever for timeframe. It'll probably be a LONG time down the road... :-/
I have the S/C already but have SO many other important projects to take care of before I can go down that road. Also need to pick-up a spare M62TU to do the mockup and design work on...

[geargrinder]

Al - I think getting a spare block is REAL good idea. A cheap to free blown motor is perfect for fab figment like this of course there aren't many blown up M6x lying around either (which is a good sign).

[Mpowered02]

Al - I think getting a spare block is REAL good idea. A cheap to free blown motor is perfect for fab figment like this of course there aren't many blown up M6x lying around either (which is a good sign).

GG...Indeed! There's pretty regularly '99-'01 E38 740i's at the local pick-n-pulls and according to their price lists, the complete engines can be had for $250-$300. Not too bad. I also want to ditch the CCV/Oil Separator in favor of a legit Crankcase Vacuum setup using a belt-driven vacuum pump. Want to use one of vac pumps from either GZ Motorsports or Star Machine with a dedicated Gilmer belt, so the spare engine would be used for development and mock-up of that as well. My hope is that whichever engine I grab will be decent enough to be re-built at some point as well. Would love to build a stroker M62TU... :shifty

[wagons ho]

Don't have it sorted out. Not selling a kit. Pics on my wagon ho new touring forum member posting. I build stuff, looking for help with thread. I take it you're both "in"? Anyone else?

[wagons ho]

15932 that's a lot. Toolman's was the15931st and everybody was excited about it. Reasons to join in this build with this new Eaton m122 brand new water intercooler, production surplus Cadillac unit are; 600 dollar cost, available without having to be rebuilt or repaired, don't require m122 guts to be installed in a m112 case ,flat intake mounting flange for good gasket seal on spacers block, injector boss on intake port, not on spacers, all of you who i see from doing more internet trolling,are well versed in supercharger function and all know each other, and me. I have mock up cores, mock up cars, the ability to get the spacers made so that the build can progress into your hands for input and help. Here's where I am at. The height of the adapter will be set by the ability to clear the coolant tubes. I only have a bit of room before hood clearance is an issue again. I need to set front pulley alignment for this also. Current idea is to machine off the timing mark flange on the balancer and add belt grooves. Weight loss of flange should not matter. How many ribs on belt should be sufficient? I'd like to keep a/C on same belt, is there an ac pulley 7 ribs wide that can be swapped ( I think landcrusier has a nippondenso w/7). Or do I make a slave idler to run ac and just run s/c by itself on rear position w tensioner idler. A build thread moderator who inputs my pics from say a laptop could install pics with pertinent info below it. Smart phone posting not so much. My input will be less once mechanical is done and it's tune time. Then I'm back to engine build with as stated bigger rod bearings, bore and stroke as stroke by itself is no help. And more. DeanC93,your timing was perfect as we needed a supercharger kit for reasonable money. Do we hijack this post as THE post, drag it somewhere start a new one? I'm ready. Only started texting two years ago, this is already getting easier, but...

[geargrinder]

hey man. like I said. I support.

just tellin' yah.

we get a lotta big talk and not a lot of action. everybody is a superman fab jock with amazeballz mad skillz and is gonna knock this thing out in 5 minutes and its gonna be hella flush killer and cost $300. heard it a million times. just everything you are saying right here. heard. it. million. times.

to date? 1 or 2 under the radar one-off builds, and then finally toolmans setup which was the one guy to really pull it through (and that indeed is cool) but seems like he's only set up a couple other guys with although that too is pretty under radar.

so even all the "yeah if only there was a TSS I'd buy it TOMORROW!!!" guys who always pile in and clamor away? well i think toolman would probably be retired and living on the beach in the Caribbean if everybody who said that bought some gear from him. most of those guys end up selling their 540 and disappearing within a month or year anyway.

look back at the bluecrabmafia build - he got real far to the point of having some prototype adapter stuff almost ready to go. I have heard that somebody who was interested on picking up where he left off might be able to do something there but you'd need to chase him down and be in touch w/ Frank Smith who I hear has some of the leftovers from the project.

not sure where you're getting the 'build moderator' thing like there's some kind of picture-posting-beyotch service for you, but if you get a buddy to sign on to help you, that's possible I am sure. but it ain't how things are regular done. moderators aren't here to post pix for you.

again. not unsupportive.

just realistic. which means skeptical, based on history.

[dme88]

DON'T!

Three thing in life you shouldn't cheap out on:
1. Shoes
2. Tires
3. S/C kits

I bought ESS first M62 kit. In heinsight, it would have been cheaper just to spend another 3500€ for a NEW kit.

[philly98540]

Frank had one of those new surplus caddy blowers sitting on his shelf. Not sure if he's pursuing anything with it, but it sure looks straightforward adapting it to these v blocks

[cazal740i]

Here are some more pics of my ESS install
572377 Bracket Weld from back view
572378
572379
found this to be cool on the BMW Engine bracket
572380
Bracket installed...FAIL
I couldn't install the LOWER engine cover or top cover cuz the S/C blower mount was in the way. I had to remove it and install after New Guides install
572381
Blood sweat and tears and lots of cussing getting the bracket in without removing the A/C compressor...Of course I was solo...I don't wish this job on anyone...

[cazal740i]

572382572383572384572385572386
ESS kit contained 24lbs fuel injectors

[cazal740i]

572387

^ Stock 19 lbs vs 24lbs( FORD Brand injector
)572388
572389
572390
Gates Supercharger Belt. I had to order from FRANCE as in the USA no Gates size belt to be found

[cazal740i]

572391572392

[wagons ho]

Thud. Or on the internet is it click? The sound it makes when a thread is dead. Good thing I'm not making a kit for sale as we now know the interest is near zero. Having only had my s/C in possession for a week I'm still going through the punch list of stuff to set height. I'm currently building coolant tubes that fit down into top block valley. Don't want to have to massage hood for an extra1/2" of clearance. The question of how many ribs the drive belt needs, no input. I'm planning on 7 but the unit as a 8 groove pulley. How many are the centrifugal pumps running and how long do they last? How long do your idler bearings last. Working on elbow for the throttle body, and is there a limit of how far it can be moved? Could I move it to the front,as it's under vacuum and shouldn't be hard to seal. Drive belt idler is going to be an Audi timing belt unit as it should handle the rpm's and load. Idler will hold belt away from water pump and provide belt wrap. Need to build and idler mount plate that incorporates timing cover and a/C bracket. I might as well position it to clear vanos solenoid (if I can)although my application is non vanos. That's all for now, back to the bat cave.

[geargrinder]

572391572392

thanks for all those pix man. Interesting. They cant the blower over more than VF so as to not notch the volute. Bracket is somewhere between the Dinan style and the VF style... BPV locale same as VF.

[cazal740i]

thanks for all those pix man. Interesting. They cant the blower over more than VF so as to not notch the volute. Bracket is somewhere between the Dinan style and the VF style... BPV locale same as VF.
Sorry bro, Ive re read this about 4 times. No disrespect, what were you trying to say?

[geargrinder]

I mean "cant" as in angle it over to the side.

The volute is the snail housing on the compressor.
VF takes a bite out of that and modifies the housing with a little wedge cut out for clearance.
then they rotate the housing over a little bit.

ESS and Dinan don't.

- - - Updated - - -

And BPV is bypass valve. Dinan and VF put it in different places.

[Plattus1000]

Thud. Or on the internet is it click? The sound it makes when a thread is dead. Good thing I'm not making a kit for sale as we now know the interest is near zero. Having only had my s/C in possession for a week I'm still going through the punch list of stuff to set height. I'm currently building coolant tubes that fit down into top block valley. Don't want to have to massage hood for an extra1/2" of clearance. The question of how many ribs the drive belt needs, no input. I'm planning on 7 but the unit as a 8 groove pulley. How many are the centrifugal pumps running and how long do they last? How long do your idler bearings last. Working on elbow for the throttle body, and is there a limit of how far it can be moved? Could I move it to the front,as it's under vacuum and shouldn't be hard to seal. Drive belt idler is going to be an Audi timing belt unit as it should handle the rpm's and load. Idler will hold belt away from water pump and provide belt wrap. Need to build and idler mount plate that incorporates timing cover and a/C bracket. I might as well position it to clear vanos solenoid (if I can)although my application is non vanos. That's all for now, back to the bat cave.

I think it's more a matter of people in here have heard it so many times before, "new supercharger option" and then after the first few dozen posts, they disappear. I wouldn't take it as an indication of interest or lack thereof. Shell shock more aptly fits.

I promise you, if you build it, it works and can be replicated, you'll be neck deep in requests. I'll be there and Geargrinder will be fighting me for position on the list.

I honestly believe that your path will lead to sucess after reading your other posts and seeing the pics you sent me.

Don't let the high brow attitude sway you. It's just nobody has successfully done this before without basically building Frankenstein-like apparatuses in the engine bay. They usualy don't work or can't be tuned correctly.

I have faith and will do whatever I can to help you.

Especially after seeing the pics in your other thread:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2294456-new-touring-forum-member

[zak78]

Thud. Or on the internet is it click? The sound it makes when a thread is dead. Good thing I'm not making a kit for sale as we now know the interest is near zero. Having only had my s/C in possession for a week I'm still going through the punch list of stuff to set height. I'm currently building coolant tubes that fit down into top block valley. Don't want to have to massage hood for an extra1/2" of clearance. The question of how many ribs the drive belt needs, no input. I'm planning on 7 but the unit as a 8 groove pulley. How many are the centrifugal pumps running and how long do they last? How long do your idler bearings last. Working on elbow for the throttle body, and is there a limit of how far it can be moved? Could I move it to the front,as it's under vacuum and shouldn't be hard to seal. Drive belt idler is going to be an Audi timing belt unit as it should handle the rpm's and load. Idler will hold belt away from water pump and provide belt wrap. Need to build and idler mount plate that incorporates timing cover and a/C bracket. I might as well position it to clear vanos solenoid (if I can)although my application is non vanos. That's all for now, back to the bat cave.

Just caught the comment that your application is non-vanos, yet you're looking to clear the vanos solenoid if you can. Are you sure you're not up for making a kit, albeit in small volume? :) There are at least a handful of us out here, in our 30s-50s most likely, who will still have our 540s when they're eligible for "classic" tags. We'll happily fork over a few thousand for a reliable, positive-displacement blower setup.

Edit: How's the idler-mount plate coming along?

[geargrinder]

well summarized Platts.

its kind of a chicken-little situation.

but having looked at the other thread, am very encouraged. subscribing there...

[philly98540]

Yeah, this project looks doable but needs someone to drive it. Looks like wagons has the equipment and skills. Along with this crew I think it's doable for sure. Adapters, pullies, intake, water cooling, tune, done.

[wagons ho]

I think it's doable too! I am amazed in reading all the back posts (2012) that projects actually run, everyone chimes in with support, and poof- gone. Where are these people, are they on BF still? Now understand that I knew none of this when I started, and would have gone on as I am anyway. Also, no good pictures of the drive pulley on any of them. I'm shooting from the hip on my combo but my way is different than what I have seen. One clue from Toolman was that he extended the drive snout. I'm driving from the rear belt. Any pic links of details would be appreciated. I'll keep whittling away.

- - - Updated - - -

Having the first set of spacers for the rear coolant cross over cut on the water jet. They'll make more clearance for the intake elbow.

[geargrinder]

ho'bag - are you sure there's enough room around the tunnel to move the coolant crossover? I suppose you could always bash I mean "clearance" the firewall back a little bit... that's a clever way to buy some space for sure.

FWIW my old Audi V6 w/ an Eaton blower kit on it had rear-throttle-body setup and man was it a PITA jammed up against the firewall back there. def constricted right angle for the flow too. but of course we're working with what we got, so carry on, but just sayin... those rear-intake setups can be PITA for maintenance and flow.

[wagons ho]

Plenty of room GG. Whole point of moving the cross over is more room for the intake elbow. This Eaton has way more clearance back there than pics show with the jag unit. I'm mounting the mechanical 98 throttle back there and my only concern is room for the bellcrank. Thinking ahead on tune, and vanos delete. Wouldn't vanos be counterproductive with low speed boost.

[philly98540]

Vanos would help if you can control it properly. Any pics of the intake side as it sits on the block?

[wagons ho]

Gone for 3 days so no working on it, and no pics. So sad, as it's taken over other projects on priority. But I will be in the wagon with the wife and dog for some good road miles.

[geargrinder]

Yeah - vanos is really all gain and if you can either
1. using a good tuner you can always software manage it or
2. w/ stand-alone definitely can software manage it

VANOS delete would be big PITA on a VANOS motor anyway -

if you want to simplify I can def understand that logic but would suggest just build on a non-VANOS motor to begin with.

but I think a VANOS motor will make better powerband all in all and you'll prob get gas mileage as a 'freebie' too. (OK by mileage i mean like 17mpg vs 14mpg ;^) )

[Mpowered02]

Yeah - vanos is really all gain and if you can either
1. using a good tuner you can always software manage it or
2. w/ stand-alone definitely can software manage it

VANOS delete would be big PITA on a VANOS motor anyway -

if you want to simplify I can def understand that logic but would suggest just build on a non-VANOS motor to begin with.

but I think a VANOS motor will make better powerband all in all and you'll prob get gas mileage as a 'freebie' too. (OK by mileage i mean like 17mpg vs 14mpg ;^) )

I definitely agree with GG. VANOS widens the power band, so for a street car I see no reason to delete it. For racecars it makes sense because they spend most of their time in higher RPM's further up in the power band, plus they want simplicity (less things to go bad mid-race). A good tuner that can manage VANOS would be ideal, IMHO...

[mapleridge]

going to move to the other thread but fwiw, I had contacted toolman and pricing for his kit with the machining and adapters he machined was around $2500 if I recal correctly. You need to source the blower and associated parts required on your own, which is basically the complete jag blower set up with throttle body and you need to add an intercooler. Total price is probably close to $4000 once all said and done.

[cazal740i]

going to move to the other thread but fwiw, I had contacted toolman and pricing for his kit with the machining and adapters he machined was around $2500 if I recal correctly. You need to source the blower and associated parts required on your own, which is basically the complete jag blower set up with throttle body and you need to add an intercooler. Total price is probably close to $4000 once all said and done.

The better and obvious choice for $5k with tune and support is VF

[mapleridge]

The better and obvious choice for $5k with tune and support is VF


I don't know enough to say on my own what the merits of each kit is and there is very little dyno data on toolmans setup. I just wanted people to have a clearer comparison in terms of price.

There is another member who has shared his pics of a toolman setup just today and he will dyno on june 2nd so we will hopefully see a fully tuned and functioning set up on that day. The other person who dyno'd ended up blowing his motor because of some pre-existing issue.

[wagons ho]

Just a quick update on the roots S/C progress. Everything is coming together nicely, but today I got my first real hurdle. I hoped to buy a fuel rail from GM as the S/C is a production unit but was told the part is not serviced. My parts guy is doing so extra digging but it looks like I have to fab this part too. I have been keeping everything very factory looking and blending the factory mounting of both so I don't want some rubber fitting spider for a fuel rail. The only picture of one of these non factory mounted, is the blue crab mafia attempt, and they had a factory rail. Also, I find it interesting that us wagon guys are the most rabid for boost and yes, Plattus and RBRSM3(couldn't check spelling while in posts) but now know as Mr Race Wagon, I am making extra of all the components. My belt idler bracket does require a boss welded to the timing cover so hold off on the guide job for a bit more, if you can. I'm back at work full time and getting caught up, so I can devote more time to this again.

[geargrinder]

Just a quick update on the roots S/C progress.

nitpicking but not roots, twin screw, right?

[wagons ho]

I have to admit, I didn't know the real difference between a twin screw and roots . So I googled it for a true definition. Kenne Bell website had a good break down on the differences and now I will always remember to call it a twin screw. Thanks G.G.

[Plattus1000]

Is there a way to tap threads into the timing covers as opposed to welding on to it?

Build 5 of everything! I'll buy one!

[ColtonBH]

nitpicking but not roots, twin screw, right?

If it's the Eaton m112 from a jag, it is a roots type

At least iirc, the m90 is for sure a roots type

[geargrinder]

My bad entirely then. I'll be honest I never paid much attention to detail but assumed that was a late enough unit to be a TS.

Hmmm. Very interesting. If that's the case, changes my view on these applications a little bit. And why some guys poo-poo the re-use of those, instead of starting with a KB or whatever blower. They probably have a point.

[wagons ho]

When G.G. asked if it was roots or twin screw, my ignorance of the actual difference led me to Google it. I referred to the Kenne Bell - roots vs. twin screw web page. It's a twin screw. Eaton is licensed to build them, the picture and description match.

[RSBBlackM3]

Mr Race Wagon has a nice ring to it!

Looking forward to updates as they come!


Just a quick update on the roots S/C progress. Everything is coming together nicely, but today I got my first real hurdle. I hoped to buy a fuel rail from GM as the S/C is a production unit but was told the part is not serviced. My parts guy is doing so extra digging but it looks like I have to fab this part too. I have been keeping everything very factory looking and blending the factory mounting of both so I don't want some rubber fitting spider for a fuel rail. The only picture of one of these non factory mounted, is the blue crab mafia attempt, and they had a factory rail. Also, I find it interesting that us wagon guys are the most rabid for boost and yes, Plattus and RBRSM3(couldn't check spelling while in posts) but now know as Mr Race Wagon, I am making extra of all the components. My belt idler bracket does require a boss welded to the timing cover so hold off on the guide job for a bit more, if you can. I'm back at work full time and getting caught up, so I can devote more time to this again.

[Kenny1958]

When G.G. asked if it was roots or twin screw, my ignorance of the actual difference led me to Google it. I referred to the Kenne Bell - roots vs. twin screw web page. It's a twin screw. Eaton is licensed to build them, the picture and description match.

http://kennebell.net/KBWebsite/Common/pdfs/twinscrew-vs-roots-fromcatalog.pdf

[wagons ho]

Thanks Kenny. I don't know how to connect the link. Partial salvation from a Ford Taurus at the pull a part yard. After checking every car in the yard, and having a close call with the fuel rail from a jag, but it had wrong bore spacing for the Cadillac S/C. Then like a shining beacon, 24v duratec Taurus. Correct bore spacing, same offset injector hat as the Cadillac, only I need several to make one. At least I only have to splice lengthwise. I already have them at the chrome shop being dechromed or I'd show a pic of the fit to clarify what the problem is.

[RSBBlackM3]

Thanks Kenny. I don't know how to connect the link. Partial salvation from a Ford Taurus at the pull a part yard. After checking every car in the yard, and having a close call with the fuel rail from a jag, but it had wrong bore spacing for the Cadillac S/C. Then like a shining beacon, 24v duratec Taurus. Correct bore spacing, same offset injector hat as the Cadillac, only I need several to make one. At least I only have to splice lengthwise. I already have them at the chrome shop being dechromed or I'd show a pic of the fit to clarify what the problem is.

86 bolt on parts :(

You're saying you are combinging two v6 fuel rails to make one for the V8 right? Just trying to understand. Kudos!

[wagons ho]

The need to complete this project was given to me loud and clear. The 540iA couldn't handle the Audi sedan with a v10 badge on the fender(I did have a m62 short block in the trunk but still),and the 540-6 had to work way too hard to get rid of SRT4 Caliber. So here are some pics and a rundown. Fuel rail; chrome coated steel is crap because of rust inside the pipe. That's why Europeans use stainless. I'm now hand building rails using Audi nipples that nest into S /C . Small hat from Ford and GM also have a smaller diameter port. 99% of fuel rails plug directly on top of injectors and that won't work here. Throttle body; 99 up electronic will fit easy, but I'm going for mechanical throttle on my first one. One inch spacers for coolant cross over makes more room for air intake elbow. Mounting a mechanical linkage asc body elbow section with asc flap removed, mounted to a plate, then a cut down throttle body with stock asc valve.Old asc shaft bushing holes could be used for a vacuum port if I run out of suitable taps as it's behind the throttle plate. Belt idler plate will be redone as improved spacing became apparent after the first mockup, but it no longer needs a boss on the timing cover and the threaded support stop can also act as a plate/belt alignment feature. Dipstick clearance was checked. Crank pulley; 5 groove has been turned into 7, hope that's enough with the belt wrap available. Mounting spacers; I have them laid out, but they are the most expensive feature and I want everything to be right before I commit. I'm pulling apart a running car to mount the S/C for a final confirmation. That leaves cold air intake and wiring harness. Wiring harness needs to be lengthened to go around not over, and fuel injector wiring boxes are planning on being mounted to the fuel rail as per factory. Total mods to the S/C are; 1/8" material off one flange edge to clear timing chain case, two spot faced bolt holes elongated per side (by next to nothing) and the blower pulley pressed on .060" further. Oh yeah, still have to plumb intercooler piping. Have the fittings plate but no plan. I'm already thinking about ordering another S/C. If I can up the power on the wife's X5is and not have to go buy an X5M it will be worth it

- - - Updated - - -

Apparently pics are only shown when logged in on full site.

[Plattus1000]

You got's to get this going and go find that Audi, can't have that bs. I'll just pretend you didn't even mention the Caliber.

[geargrinder]

You got's to get this going and go find that Audi, can't have that bs. I'll just pretend you didn't even mention the Caliber.

LOL.

Wagons, you are potentially getting yourself into a world of hurt trying to go w/ cable throttle on the VANOS motor.

Excuse me if I missed this but what ECU do you think you're going to use?

The VANOS ECU's are 100% DBW. The cable-throttle ECU's are 100% non-VANOS.

If you are going stand-alone then OK sure that'll work, but then you have lotta work to program the VANOS control on top of timing and fuel.

Also the DBW cars use the throttle for idle stability control - if you go pre-VANOS TB you also need to fit an idle control valve most likely or your streetability of idle might suck.

If the DBW fits, honestly I'd just whack that on there... easy peazy.

- - - Updated - - -

Wagons - got the email update but don't see a post here, not sure if you deleted it. Board did a few things funny to me too today like this is 2nd time i am trying to post this reply...

Anyway - OK got it that you're doing a full non-VANOS build, sounds good (aside from the fact that ME5.2 tuning is even rarer to find experience with than ME7...)

That does look like a VANOS head though - are you just using that to mock-up?

[wagons ho]

GG, my post did disappear when I tried to add that I'd like to run a dbw throttle on a non vanos motor. Glad you saw it. Could the throttle position sensor in the electronic throttle replace the input for the 98, leaving me to just powering up the pedal and throttle independently? I'm hoping to tune the 5.2 with mostly fuel pressure regulated by boost. And yes, I have provisions for the ICV plumbed into my intake system. And could continue to use it even with the electronic throttle.

[geargrinder]

Without causin unnecessary and possibly unworkable headaches, I'd keep it simple:

If you use cable throttle, keep to ME5.2, keep to ISV, keep to non-VANOS block

And vice versa.

The hybrid setup sounds really rough and like I say unnecessary headaches unless you're using a nice standalone where everything is built in software from ground up in which case the skies the limit on how much mix and match you want to do.

You worry me w/ idea of using an AFPR to 'tune'. I think AFPRs' are total piles of crap myself unless you're tuning on some vintage setup and it's the only way to get fueling control you need...

And besides how are you going to tune ignition timing? Ignition timing control and being able to control it and optimize it dynamically is huge on a boosted motor. If you start using ME5 ECU for timing control then, why not use it for fuel too and ditch the AFPR...

If I was on the project team personally I'd see the options landscape in this order...

1a. If car is going to be track or non-daily and non-emissions, a sophisticated stand-alone like Emtron / ViPec etc. would be super
1b. If not then, I'd tune ME7.2 on a VANOS block w/ DBW, with a good tuner who can do it
2. Tune ME5.2 on a non-VANOS motor w/ cable w/ a good tuner who can do it
then a big step down to....
3. Run a fuel & timing piggyback on top of ME5.2 w/ cable throttle & the non-VANOS block (still no AFPR needed if your piggyback can take over injector duty as well as spark...)

4... uhh guess there's not a 4... ;) I wouldn't go AFPR only myself...

[Plattus1000]

English GD-it!

[wagons ho]

Sorry for the rambling drivel from an obsessed car guy. Wait.... I can start talking mopar and really confused everybody. Had to go back to work tonight so I wouldn't buy another 98, it has to be a vanos. A few more useless posts to get to 100.

[Plattus1000]

I honestly can't follow what ya'll are on about but I'm in for the journey and hope to see this car collection one day. Carry on you two.

[geargrinder]

Sorry for the rambling drivel from an obsessed car guy. Wait.... I can start talking mopar and really confused everybody. Had to go back to work tonight so I wouldn't buy another 98, it has to be a vanos. A few more useless posts to get to 100.

wagons - screw 100... yer currently at

https://www.cheapassgamer.com/uploads/gallery/album_5984/gallery_225685_5984_1370780031_13407.jpg

[wagons ho]

Break time here at Rancho Relaxo. Thought I'd post on the thread hijacked from DeanC93. We never heard from him after starting this thread. Also one other fellow was to report back in June after a trip to the Dyno. I hope Kenny 1958 is doing well and I am excited about the state of affairs here. Did you know that a five axis mill that does an 8.8" part is a million used? A 16" machine can run 2.5. Needless to say without my contact I'd never get the spacers done unless I did a thousand of them. Unfortunately my contact only has the small one so we are building it in two pieces per side. As I learned from Mr Race Wagon, someone else who is working on a similar project thinks they are going to patent it. I say good luck with that, as the threshold for competing design is very low. As is the volume for " kits". Now if GG and Philly switch over that doubles the interest !!

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, that's 100 posts--- woo hoo!

[Kenny1958]

Break time here at Rancho Relaxo. Thought I'd post on the thread hijacked from DeanC93. We never heard from him after starting this thread. Also one other fellow was to report back in June after a trip to the Dyno. I hope Kenny 1958 is doing well and I am excited about the state of affairs here. Did you know that a five axis mill that does an 8.8" part is a million used? A 16" machine can run 2.5. Needless to say without my contact I'd never get the spacers done unless I did a thousand of them. Unfortunately my contact only has the small one so we are building it in two pieces per side. As I learned from Mr Race Wagon, someone else who is working on a similar project thinks they are going to patent it. I say good luck with that, as the threshold for competing design is very low. As is the volume for " kits". Now if GG and Philly switch over that doubles the interest !!

- - - Updated - - -

By the way, that's 100 posts--- woo hoo!

Yeah i'm pretty good the engine is all rebuilt and waiting to go back in, which should happen this weekend after i've finished refurbishing the sauna.