m62 Short Block Question - How easy should it turn?

[marshallnoise]

Back story: Just bought a relatively unknown m62 long block that I want for my m60b44 build. It was only $60 so I won't feel horrible if its toast, but...

Decided to go out and pull the heads and the motor mounts off the m62. I wanted to see what the condition of the chambers were and if I got a vanos motor or not.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_183504668_HDR_zpsiopbrbts.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_183504668_HDR_zpsiopbrbts.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_183829188_HDR_zpssfkpol9w.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_183829188_HDR_zpssfkpol9w.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_184723345_zpswyjmguyn.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_184723345_zpswyjmguyn.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_184729357_zpsfrmfypk9.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_184729357_zpsfrmfypk9.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185047655_HDR_zpswzrnqieu.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185047655_HDR_zpswzrnqieu.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185053686_zpslessppqh.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185053686_zpslessppqh.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185649302_zpszlntsot4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_185649302_zpszlntsot4.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_190110342_zps0sewtdqj.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_190110342_zps0sewtdqj.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_190116909_zpswyvgau7f.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_190116909_zpswyvgau7f.jpg.html)

Judging by the valve reliefs, I have an m62b44tu motor.

Then I wanted to see if the motor would turn over free and easy...Well, it didn't. I am kind of concerned about it. Especially after looking at the valves in the heads. I believe that some of the valves are bent and you can also see lines across the bottom of the valves.

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191933097_zpsxppu7wme.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191933097_zpsxppu7wme.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191938122_zpswfknwsco.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191938122_zpswfknwsco.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191942378_zpswvlg7bx4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160502_191942378_zpswvlg7bx4.jpg.html)

I believe this engine might have been mistimed and attempted to fire. I am not too sure.

In the meantime, I have bagged the motor and sprayed some PB Blaster in the driver's side cylinders in case the engine is just frozen from sitting. I will come back in a couple of days and flip it to the passenger side and do the same thing, then give it a turn on Saturday and see if it will spin.

Anyone have any experience with a short block and how easy it should turn? My m30 short block turned over with some effort, but this one is super tight.

[bolloc]

Without the heads on you should be able to spin the crank easily.

[mboor]

Without the heads on you should be able to spin the crank easily.

+1. Pull the other head and see if it turns over freely. One valve def looks a little bent. There may be another bent valve in the head still on the motor, causing some piston to valve interference . The M62 bottom ends are very robust, and i dont see any major dings in the top of the piston. hopefully this bottom end is good.

doest the motor turn over and then stop, or is it just hard to spin? i assume all the spark plugs are removed?

[marshallnoise]

Thanks fellas, I figured it should spin easily.

The block is stripped down to just the rotating assembly. No heads on at all. That's what makes this kind of strange. I may have to pull the oil pan and look for signs of overheating.

Can rings stick to Alusil due to exposure?

[ross1]

It is hard to turn or won't turn at all? If the rings were sticking you'd probably see witness marks where they were stuck if none and hard to turn I'd strongly suspect a bearing problem.
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/YN6NMaNoHes/maxresdefault.jpg (https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=images&cd=&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0ahUKEwi39vGjhb_MAhXJ5SYKHdeuAAQQjRwIBw&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.youtube.com%2Fwatch%3Fv%3DYN 6NMaNoHes&bvm=bv.121099550,d.eWE&psig=AFQjCNEnwjWoao7MHSTlD67lsWDQr06haA&ust=1462403895735212)

[marshallnoise]

Ha! I will do some penetrating oil and see how that does. After that, yeah, that picture is what I am looking at. Which would be cool outside in my patio.

- - - Updated - - -

I got the motor to turn over with TONS of force. Then it loosened up a bit, but still required lots of effort to turn.

Take a look at this carnage!

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185839783_HDR_zpsdjgdpmpn.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185839783_HDR_zpsdjgdpmpn.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185852154_zpsqaxbvjny.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185852154_zpsqaxbvjny.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185858966_zpsoa9gtck4.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185858966_zpsoa9gtck4.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185940866_zps7chrd5iz.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185940866_zps7chrd5iz.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185947378_zpsflbuzraf.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185947378_zpsflbuzraf.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185949637_zpsrapjypmw.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185949637_zpsrapjypmw.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185959707_zpszfxe9jcw.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_185959707_zpszfxe9jcw.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190029112_zpslrgquvxc.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190029112_zpslrgquvxc.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190040469_zpserujfq3v.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190040469_zpserujfq3v.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190046907_zpsnqxwi4sl.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190046907_zpsnqxwi4sl.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190131089_zpsqmtu5bae.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190131089_zpsqmtu5bae.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190136642_zpssaw1cblo.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190136642_zpssaw1cblo.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190200097_zpsb8npbbvu.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190200097_zpsb8npbbvu.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190205360_zpsbxkwus75.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190205360_zpsbxkwus75.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190208883_zps2cjufgqk.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190208883_zps2cjufgqk.jpg.html)

Aaaaand, the money shot, kill shot, whatever you want to call it...
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190243485_zpscfy2qrth.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190243485_zpscfy2qrth.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190252184_zps5kwjvohd.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190252184_zps5kwjvohd.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190353398_zps68qsjomr.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190353398_zps68qsjomr.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190358884_zpsvsy2a3ps.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190358884_zpsvsy2a3ps.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190431630_zps7hfovncy.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190431630_zps7hfovncy.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190437082_zpsj4r9iug1.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190437082_zpsj4r9iug1.jpg.html)

Basically most of the cylinders show damage, but this one was the proof of a big problem. The groove is deep and wide.
http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190243485_zpscfy2qrth.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160503_190243485_zpscfy2qrth.jpg.html)

Back to the drawing board. Oh, and 3rd Shift Motorsports hasn't responded, though I knew I might have been getting something a little dubious. They have this thread as I texted it to them yesterday. I don't hold them responsible though. So $40 and a twelve pack for the beginnings of a table...

[demetk]

Sorry to say this again but, bummer for that engine too. http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/big/big-smiley-002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org/free-big-smiley.php) Now what?

[marshallnoise]

I have a couple of very weak irons in the fire. A guy is selling another 95 540i with a bad autobox that otherwise is fine (need pics) up in Santa Ana for $800. The general condition of my car isn't very good, so I could get that car and swap my 6 speed into it.

I also have an e39 540i/A with bad timing chain guides with some killer wheels and a nice steering wheel for $600 from a paid parking lot that is putting a lien on the car. They have said they would sell it to me, but its been radio silence for weeks. You just never know with those folks. Like buying from a tow yard.

I am constantly scouring craigslist. One day I will prevail.

[nonturbodan]

Shouldn't take more than 20 or 25 lb-ft to turn over an assembled bottom end. The rings are the only significant source of drag.

[marshallnoise]

I would say this is taking over 100 lb-ft to turn. :/

[UnrulyGrace]

I have a good b40 short block at my engine builder's shop in Orange. I'll let it go cheap for you...

[ross1]

I would say this is taking over 100 lb-ft to turn. :/
:(
Let us know what you find

[marshallnoise]

I will post pics of the remainder but this is the aftermath of one piston pulled.

Tee hee! This is just one rod bearing.

http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/d36b5bb1751d231904dfa2fba333af61.jpg

Nice blued crank.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/2a13cc83043a21cdcdb5e07f185b8e67.jpg

Piston.
http://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20160509/afd7c5c5c025935cddbe1306cc884896.jpg

[demetk]

Looks like it was starved of oil?

[ross1]

The mark in the cylinder is in the right place for a wrist pin to have done it.
You got your money's worth.

[marshallnoise]

Looks like it was starved of oil?
At the least. Plus run hot.


The mark in the cylinder is in the right place for a wrist pin to have done it.
You got your money's worth.

Looking at the picture, you are right. I haven't torn down the rest of the motor yet.

Is that blue color on the crank normal?

[ross1]

[QUOTE=




Is that blue color on the crank normal?[/QUOTE]

I'd think that discoloration from bad bearings would also effect the rod ends and main caps, I see none of that.
My guess is it was run overheating until it seized. Your bearing looks bad but didn't spin.
I'll bet that thing smells really bad.

[marshallnoise]

I'd think that discoloration from bad bearings would also effect the rod ends and main caps, I see none of that.
My guess is it was run overheating until it seized. Your bearing looks bad but didn't spin.
I'll bet that thing smells really bad.

I'll get it torn down the rest of the way tonight if I can.

To be honest, it doesn't smell bad at all. But I think its sat outside for a year or so.

[marshallnoise]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fRnBVwLoLEA


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIKtIGiNyJg


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOmYNfoY4x0

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190002766_zpsvntlrksi.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190002766_zpsvntlrksi.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190007726_zpsgd4clbbm.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190007726_zpsgd4clbbm.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190012833_zpsxpx6kdh2.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190012833_zpsxpx6kdh2.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190058970_zpsqlpsxryh.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190058970_zpsqlpsxryh.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190618876_zpsfx9dmigi.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190618876_zpsfx9dmigi.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190751683_zpsetljpslg.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190751683_zpsetljpslg.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190759083_zpsybjll4ma.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190759083_zpsybjll4ma.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190845922_zpsom7en9ni.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190845922_zpsom7en9ni.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190911101_zpszwexjhls.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_190911101_zpszwexjhls.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191656282_zpsgsw36o0b.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191656282_zpsgsw36o0b.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191707923_zpsta1dbx0d.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191707923_zpsta1dbx0d.jpg.html)

http://i150.photobucket.com/albums/s109/TnPaulMan/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191833888_zps67m10bay.jpg (http://s150.photobucket.com/user/TnPaulMan/media/1995%20e34%20540i%206/IMG_20160509_191833888_zps67m10bay.jpg.html)

So all in all, I think the wrist pins were ok. No broken rings. Lots of stuck rings. Not spun but trashed 2 of the 5 main journal bearings. I have no idea if the crank is ok or not. Not sure I care. When I get more light, I will take some better pics of the rods and pistons. Thing was gummed up something fierce.

[ross1]

egads, that bearing was a microsecond away from spinning.
My speculation that is just overheating looks quite wrong now. That color on the crank could be from heat.
Was the oil pump loose??

I had an M30 once that spun a main. One bearing half actually managed to overlap the other wedging the crank BUT turning the engine backwards with a very long bar would unstick it and after a few tries the starter, struggling mightily, could fire it up and it would run at perhaps 1500 RPM under full throttle. M30s die hard.

[marshallnoise]

egads, that bearing was a microsecond away from spinning.
My speculation that is just overheating looks quite wrong now. That color on the crank could be from heat.
Was the oil pump loose??

I had an M30 once that spun a main. One bearing half actually managed to overlap the other wedging the crank BUT turning the engine backwards with a very long bar would unstick it and after a few tries the starter, struggling mightily, could fire it up and it would run at perhaps 1500 RPM under full throttle. M30s die hard.

I never had the oil pump to inspect it. The karma/irony of this is that if that oil pump is bad, the fella who sold the engine to me is going to ruin his s62. He robbed the oil pump off this engine for his s62 project.

m30s are freaking beastly. The funnest part about this experience is figuring out that the m62 long block is still lighter than an m30 short block. A friend and I had to pick up my m30 and move it off to the side before I could mount up the m62 long block. When I decided the m62 short block was dead and was to undergo an autopsy, I put it on my work bench which required me lifting it up and putting on the bench by hand. I just got a hoist yesterday thankfully.

So the lesson on m60s and m62s: make sure they have oil.

[demetk]

So the lesson on m60s and m62s: make sure they have oil.

Maybe the lesson learned here is to swap the m60 to an m30 lickity split. :)

[ross1]

I never had the oil pump to inspect it. The karma/irony of this is that if that oil pump is bad, the fella who sold the engine to me is going to ruin his s62. He robbed the oil pump off this engine for his s62 project.

m30s are freaking beastly. The funnest part about this experience is figuring out that the m62 long block is still lighter than an m30 short block. A friend and I had to pick up my m30 and move it off to the side before I could mount up the m62 long block. When I decided the m62 short block was dead and was to undergo an autopsy, I put it on my work bench which required me lifting it up and putting on the bench by hand. I just got a hoist yesterday thankfully.

So the lesson on m60s and m62s: make sure they have oil.
The pump didn't need to be bad for oil starvation to occur. The bolts that(should) retain it fall out into the pan with alarming regularity, leaving sometimes only the drive chain supporting the pump. A pump having been like this(or having inhaled all the debris this one did) should be considered suspect as the shaft gets flexed. I've personally seen one break off at the sprocket. Perhaps karma is about to visit the guy who sold you this engine, although tough to be upset given the price.

[marshallnoise]

The pump didn't need to be bad for oil starvation to occur. The bolts that(should) retain it fall out into the pan with alarming regularity, leaving sometimes only the drive chain supporting the pump. A pump having been like this should be considered suspect as the shaft gets flexed. I've personally seen one break off at the sprocket.
I knew that was an issue on m60s. Didn't know that happened to m62s. Good to know.

[ross1]

I knew that was an issue on m60s. Didn't know that happened to m62s. Good to know.
Don't take that as gospel, I was assuming M60

[marshallnoise]

Don't take that as gospel, I was assuming M60
Roger that.