DSP sub upgrade with stock DSP amp - questions

[Raghza]

Hello,

As discussed here, I looked more into this and now have some questions about upgrading the DSP rear subwoofer shelf.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2271068-2016-what-did-you-do-to-your-e38-today&p=29101110#post29101110
(http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2271068-2016-what-did-you-do-to-your-e38-today&p=29101110#post29101110)
I know there's four 5,25'' midbass speakers hiding in the DSP sub shelf. How many watts and ohms are those speakers?
Also, how many watts does the stock DSP amp put out?

My plan would be changing the four original midbass speakers to some aftermarket ones to improve bass. Not gonna go with VW Monsoon speakers, but rather something that can be just screwed in there.

Which speakers should I choose regarding power and ohms? Any other problems I might run into?

[Dan750iL]

Not sure about the power from the amp (except that it isn't crazy high) but the speakers are 8 ohms.

[PiotrC70]

I recall it being mentioned that the total amp output is something like 300-375 watts. There's 14 speakers to power so it has to be decent.
That being said, there has not been a single aftermarket install other than the monsoon that has provided ANYTHING remotely close to the stock setup. I swapped mine out for Dayton's or something like that and provide damn near no bass. I always look at it as Time > money. How much is your time worth finding the Monsoon speakers if you were to go that route and going through the hassle of taking everything out for install.

This is why I went with a separate amp and sub. tied into the DSP amp. couldn't be happier over the crappy stock setup.

[rudeboyE38]

Did you use a HiLo converter from the stock wiring into the amp?

[PiotrC70]

Did you use a HiLo converter from the stock wiring into the amp?

Yes. Look up my previous posts on my setup. I have an Alpine MRV-M500 which comes with a hi-level input so everything is done by the amp.

[shanecarmaster1]

I remember reading a vintage article that it's about 440 watts.

[Raghza]

Thanks for the information.
I really doubt that aftermarket Alpine/Hertz/DLS/Audison midbass speakers would not improve the low-end bass.

[shanecarmaster1]

I'm still on the fence about trying the Monsoon "upgrade". I'm personally waiting for a video or something to get an idea

[Staszek]

I'm still on the fence about trying the Monsoon "upgrade". I'm personally waiting for a video or something to get an idea

Love to hear it as well. I have the Ghost Sub now which I love, but I am thinking of selling since I heard the Monsoon was pretty good and I get get trunk space back. Not that the sub takes a ton but I like the stock stealth look.

[conchiko]

I'm close to installing a different type of setup with the peerless subs which can be purchased from parts express. Ive been meaning to do it for some time now but have been dragging my feet.

Basically it uses the smaller "midbass" peerless speaker on the inner slots and the larger peerless woofers on the other slots where they fit. I will update on the sound and send pics of the setup once its installed

[clarkitect]

I'm going to the junkyard this weekend to see what I can scare up. Pretty sure there's at least ONE car there with the Monsoon speakers.

Alternatively, I wonder if you can just go to Crutchfield and see what they have to replace the Monsoon sound system front speakers in a VW, and order those? There must be some decent options.

[rudeboyE38]

I don't have access to any local junkyards that would have those speakers. I gotta drive 2hrs at the least to find them at a yard. :( I'm looking forward to seeing what yall end up doing so I can slim down my options haha.

[dville]

I had a user visit my house to pick up 4 re-engineered window regulators.
I let him hear the Monsoons and he was so impressed that he took the sub box out of his car and left it with me to do the conversion.

There are many BASS test tones and warning videos on YouTube and I play them all in my car and hear the lowest bass frequencies.

[rudeboyE38]

I had a user visit my house to pick up 4 re-engineered window regulators.
I let him hear the Monsoons and he was so impressed that he took the sub box out of his car and left it with me to do the conversion.

There are many BASS test tones and warning videos on YouTube and I play them all in my car and hear the lowest bass frequencies.

How much would it cost for the monsoons?

[shanecarmaster1]

Ooooooo take a video for us! I'm coming from subs in the trunk and I do like to bump, so this decision is really difficult for me.

[dville]

The guy told me it Sounds like subs in the trunk.
I don't know what a video would show. You can't feel the bass in a video.

[dville]

I'll try though.

[shanecarmaster1]

I'll try though.

Thank you so much. I do have very nice, flatly equalized studio headphones to listen to a recording accurately. I think it'll be enough to sway me one way or the other.

[dville]

Thank you so much. I do have very nice, flatly equalized studio headphones to listen to a recording accurately. I think it'll be enough to sway me one way or the other.

good headphones don't help if I record it with a crappy microphone...still will try.

I use my iphone to play music in the car, so I have to find another bluetooth source and record with the phone...

[shanecarmaster1]

I know it's not scientific, but it'll still be a good indicator. Thanks though - I'm waiting with baited breath, as are others as well!

[dville]

How much would it cost for the monsoons?

I think they are NLA (no longer available) new.
They are only available used from Ebay, or junkyards. Typically about $7 each.

It is the labor to prep them to "drop in" to the sub box that is typically the issue.
Each speaker is cut from the frame because the come glued that way...

I used to install audio back in the 1990s and as i get older I realized how much we used to hack up cars for some bass.
This is the gentleman's solution. Totally stock everything except the speakers in the box.

Two things make it different than a replacement.
1. The impedance of the 4 speakers is changed from 8ohm to 4Ohm. (use only Monsoons from the front door of VWs, the rear door speakers are 2 Ohm)
This causes more current drain from the amp and puts more power to the speaker.

2. The speakers are VERY durable for rear deck use, have fancy voice coil cooling, and reproduce very LOW frequencies in the E38 application.

I welcome anyone to listen to my car with YOUR music if you want...

[shanecarmaster1]

Is there a way to hook the DSP sub box with the Monsoons to my Alpine amp via some wiring? That way I can REALLY tweak a perfect sound :)

[dville]

Is there a way to hook the DSP sub box with the Monsoons to my Alpine amp via some wiring? That way I can REALLY tweak a perfect sound :)

of course these is a way.
If your amp has 4 subwoofer outputs, then just run the speaker wires directly to the amp.
if only two, then consider wiring the speakers in series or parallel pairs, based on the capabilities of your amplifier.

[shanecarmaster1]

Mmm. I'm getting excited.

[kapone]

pffft.....:D:D:D:D:D (Sorry, had to do it).

564986

[rudeboyE38]

That looks like a lot of complicated situations all in one. Haha.

[dville]

I know it's not scientific, but it'll still be a good indicator. Thanks though - I'm waiting with baited breath, as are others as well!

I made a 4 min video with my iPhone and it's STILL uploading as i type this.

I also did something innovative.
I placed a shallow bowl of water on the center armrest so you can SEE the bass. Ripples in the water from the bass moving air in the car are caught on camera despite my wobbly hand and no tripod.

Let me know how it comes out.
I hope Vimeo doesn't mess with the quality too much.

- - - Updated - - -


I know it's not scientific, but it'll still be a good indicator. Thanks though - I'm waiting with baited breath, as are others as well!

Here you go...
https://youtu.be/ZmvbJ9t2wGE

[shanecarmaster1]

I *think* that sounds amazing! It looks like you get all that bass without even messing with the bass settings. Do the subs keep up when you crank it, or do they run out of steam?

I'm still thinking about the external amp. Part of me says that I'll be able to tweak the sound exactly how I want it and take a lot of load off of the DSP amp, but maybe the DSP amp can do all that better than if I did it myself?

[dville]

Me, in your shoes?
Take out all aftermarket amps, put everything back to stock (except a Bluetooth adapter ) and put in some Monsoon subs.
Clean, good, reliable, less inventory in your car, etc.

[Raghza]

Hmm, it does sound really good.
However I'm still confident that it's possible to get the same bass, when you use some aftermarket midbass speakers that have the same resistance. I really doubt that VW has made speakers that outplay most of the recognized car audio manufacturer's speakers :D

[dville]

Hmm, it does sound really good.
However I'm still confident that it's possible to get the same bass, when you use some aftermarket midbass speakers that have the same resistance. I really doubt that VW has made speakers that outplay most of the recognized car audio manufacturer's speakers :D

I am curious to see if there is a comparable speaker myself [emoji3]

It's a lot of time to experiment and find one.

[Raghza]

The original speakers in the DSP sub (4 in total) are 8 ohms each, right? And VW Monsoons are 4 ohms each?

[dville]

Correct