4.4 timing chain guides

[Mr mike 27]

I'm looking at a 540 with about 120k miles. The current owner tells me that the po did some vanos work, but cannot remember anything about chain guides. I am unframiliar with the repairs. If you do vanos, are you right there and usually do guides at same time? Kinda like water pump/ thermostat? Or are these 2 unrelated repairs?

[JimLev]

Can you find out who owned the car when the vanos was done and ask him?
The vanos can be done without doing the chain guides.
Doing the vanos will require the engine to be timed. So will the doing the chain guides.
You will need the the timing tools to do either.
Doing the guides at the same time will cost a few 100 more in parts and a few more hours labor.
If your paying for this it could cost ~$3K for everything.

[joekitch]

Can you find out who owned the car when the vanos was done and ask him?
The vanos can be done without doing the chain guides.
Doing the vanos will require the engine to be timed. So will the doing the chain guides.
You will need the the timing tools to do either.
Doing the guides at the same time will cost a few 100 more in parts and a few more hours labor.
If your paying for this it could cost ~$3K for everything.

i'll never understand people who do vanos but not chain guides, it's literally an extra 20 minutes on the job and like $400 in parts i think, and considering how long it takes to get down there and back out....it's a no brainer

[JimLev]

It's a lot more the 20 min to remove the Jesus bolt, pull the lower timing cover, and the oil pan just to get at the chain guides.

[joekitch]

It's a lot more the 20 min to remove the Jesus bolt, pull the lower timing cover, and the oil pan just to get at the chain guides.

i was under the impression the chain had to come off meaning the lower timing cover had to come off in order to do vanos.

[JimLev]

The vanos can be done with the lower cover on, I've done it a few times.
You keep the chain held up while you unbolt the vanos.

[Mr mike 27]

Should one run from a car with original guides? It's a job I do not want to do myself or pay. Guess I answered my own question.

[dannyzabolotny]

If you don't want to deal with guides then you should either find a car that has the guides + Vanos already done, or a car that doesn't have those issues, like the 525i, 528i, 530i, and 750il.

[dk500]

If you don't want to deal with guides then you should either find a car that has the guides + Vanos already done, or a car that doesn't have those issues, like the 525i, 528i, 530i, and 750il.

Or just a plain ol' M62 :D:buttrock:redspot

[dannyzabolotny]

Or just a plain ol' M62 :D:buttrock:redspot

The M62's have the chain guide issues too, just at a higher mileage. And most M62-equipped E39's on the market have relatively high miles due to their age. The last M62 equipped E39's rolled out in 1998, which is about 18 years ago.

[dk500]

The M62's have the chain guide issues too, just at a higher mileage. And most M62-equipped E39's on the market have relatively high miles due to their age. The last M62 equipped E39's rolled out in 1998, which is about 18 years ago.
About a week ago and no less, I was staring down the depths of the lower timing cover with a flashlight from the upper timing area just to find that my timing guides were in perfect condition. Keep in mind that this car (163,000 Miles) has been spending a large portion of time at high rpms for a large portion of its life.

The secret?

Finding a car that has had religious tensioner changes and either 5W-30 or 0W-40 oil that has been changed regularly.

[dannyzabolotny]

163,000 is fairly low mileage for a 97. Most of the 97's I've seen have well over 200,000 miles, and with like half a dozen owners. In your case the car has been with your family since new.

[dk500]

163,000 is fairly low mileage for a 97. Most of the 97's I've seen have well over 200,000 miles, and with like half a dozen owners. In your case the car has been with your family since new.
I never though I would hear that haha. The car was not driven for 3 years when my dad had his Mini Cooper, so that explains the lack of extreme miles.

[joekitch]

The vanos can be done with the lower cover on, I've done it a few times.
You keep the chain held up while you unbolt the vanos.

oh, neat.
but still, on an m62tu, it seems a little strange to do one but not the other since it's a similar amount of work to get down there again, and they tend to go out within 20 or 30k of eachother

[gmak]

How often would you suggest on the tensioner change? every 50K miles? 100K mile?


About a week ago and no less, I was staring down the depths of the lower timing cover with a flashlight from the upper timing area just to find that my timing guides were in perfect condition. Keep in mind that this car (163,000 Miles) has been spending a large portion of time at high rpms for a large portion of its life.

The secret?

Finding a car that has had religious tensioner changes and either 5W-30 or 0W-40 oil that has been changed regularly.

[lesguy]

I'm not certain anyone has proved that guide failure is correlated to oil being the cause.

I know at least two people with the m62tu engines approaching 190k on original guides and oil change intervals of 10-15k using cheap 5w-30 oil

Contrary to Internet belief frequent oil changes don't always mean cure for all things. The proper way to determine oil life is via oil analysis

[dk500]

How often would you suggest on the tensioner change? every 50K miles? 100K mile?
Mine has been done every 40k, although it is probably excessive. That's what the mechanic at my dads Indy recommended.

[dannyzabolotny]

I'm not certain anyone has proved that guide failure is correlated to oil being the cause.

I know at least two people with the m62tu engines approaching 190k on original guides and oil change intervals of 10-15k using cheap 5w-30 oil

Contrary to Internet belief frequent oil changes don't always mean cure for all things. The proper way to determine oil life is via oil analysis

Yeah, my 2003 540i6 had the guides starting to break down at 194,000 miles. It had Mobil 1 0W40 for a lot of its life at fairly regular intervals.

[sienayr]

So, are new replacement timing chain guides better than the originals? Built to last longer/forever? Or just the same exact parts as the originals?

[dannyzabolotny]

I'm not 100% sure on that, but they're not made of 15 year old plastic so they're bound to last a while. Especially now that BMW has the revised tensioner that they recommend replacing regularly.

[JimLev]

The last guides I did were on a 540 that has 206K on it. First time they were changed.
BMW 5w-30 oil changed every 7.5K

[gmak]

I'm not 100% sure on that, but they're not made of 15 year old plastic so they're bound to last a while. Especially now that BMW has the revised tensioner that they recommend replacing regularly.


+1 on that. Nor have they been baked over and over at 110C. Has to be better than a kick in the teeth with a frozen boot, no?