Need your opinion on e36 build.

[CafuR]

I have a 1998 323is with 195,000km on it runs and drives fine and the body is mint . I'm into the car for $2000 Canadian and I've been looking at e36 m3's as well.

A nice e36 m3 where i live costs around $10,000. Would it be possible to put $8,000 into my 323is and build a faster and better handling car vs a stock e36 m3?

Any thoughts or questions are gladly welcomed as well. This is also my first post on this site. Thanks.

[shogun]

I have a 1998 E36 M3 with the S52B32US engine. Quite happy with that.
But if I would have an 1998 323is with 195kkm which runs and drives fine and has a mint body, I would put this $8000 into reserve for maintenance for the coming years.
Don't try to make a M3 replica and put M3 stickers on it. The 323is is a nice car, maybe some mods which you like, wheels, tires, spoiler or whatever you like.

Probably other people will tell you different, but that makes a forum so interesting, many different preferences, one wants to have the car as a reliable daily driver as cheap as posssible, others like to tune or upgrade or even want to use it for club racing.

[jno]

For street use and occasional track fun, I'd just keep it in good nick with a few suspension mods here and there. Proper maintenance is key.

[pbonsalb]

You can swap the engine to an S52, swap to an S54, or supercharge or turbocharge your engine. You can also replace all suspension bushings, many of which are well work at 18 years and 100k miles, perhaps upgrade a few, add some reinforcements, and a set of konis with springs. If you can DIY, you may be able to do all this for $8k -- I know I could do the S52 and full suspension overhaul and upgrade for less than that. If you have to pay a shop, I would not bother since labor will consume half your budget.

[jno]

Drive around merrily until something fails and then splash the cash on a performance part.
323is is a great car, even bone stock.

[pbonsalb]

Just a little slow. 50 hp behind the M3 (USA spec motors). The extra displacement helps torque as well. And frankly, even the USA M3 is not fast enough for me. I'd want at least another 50 hp on top of it.

[guymandude]

I believe it depends what you are doing with it. That car is more than enough power to start learning to drive better. Go out to an autocross or a track day/hpde event. More power just masks your mistakes and makes it harder to learn. Tires and suspension is where you should start if you do. Keep your old ones so you can go back if you sell and upgrade. I have an s50b30 euro, my first autocross they stuck me in street modified (because of the euro). I had no chance. Easier to start at the begining

[pbonsalb]

The OP does not mention track or autocross use. Just that he wants the car to be faster and have better handling. If he had asked about how he could become a better driver, then track and autocross suggestions would be helpful.

I don't track or autocross my 99M3, but I wanted it to be faster and have better handling, and modded it accordingly. I really could care less if some track or autocross fanatic could drive a 318i faster around a track or through an autocross than me since I don't do those activities.

[guymandude]

your car is not a real m sir. good day

[CafuR]

Sorry if I was unclear in my question. With $8000 dollars CAD can I build my car up to be faster and have better better handling than a stock e36 m3?

[spyderg0d]

Yupe. Sure can.. Problem is that the value of the car wont match anything you put in.. If you want to beat stock m3, buy a m3, upgrade that.. However there are some of us that like our non m's and do build them up. But at the same time do not want it to be a m knock off. Realise this world.. If your vin isnt a m3 vin, your car will never be worth a m3 value without significant real TRACK mods. Bodykit and coil overs do not count. If it is a 323, nomatter what you do to that car, engine swap, full race suspension, turbo/ supercharger. Race seats, $10,000 speaker rig, it will only EVER be a 323 and worth tops $3,500... (Unless dedicated track like mentioned) making a 323 beat a m3 is piontless. Im sure you can travel and find a m3 under $6-$7,000. Then, less work, better resale. Better insurance, and an overall smarter thing to do.... But also as i said, some of us simply dont like m stuff and build our whatevers and badge them accordingly.

[JEC928]

If you decide to buy an E36 M3, budget $10,000.
Because $8k M3 will need $2k maintenance.
$5k M3 will need $2k maintenance + $3k repairs
Etc, etc.

If you keep the 323is, you already know the car inside & out so no surprises.
But you can probably use $8k to build a pretty decent stock-M slayer, but don't forget to budget time & tools along with M3 suspension and forced induction.

[Butters Stoch]

323 has what engine ? M52 or that disa valve one ?

[JlaE36]

323 has what engine ? M52 or that disa valve one ?

M52, I was just spying in the stickies as I saw this
:)

[Butters Stoch]

So a simple used $1500 supercharger kit would put him ahead of the M3.

[UnderCoverGuy11]

Dude why... Just buy a different car all together, there's so many cars faster than an m3 for 10k (I don't know about Canada, but atleast in US) if that's your only goal.

[MisterM52]

The goal of having a fast car is understandable, but the goal to just beat a M3 is not reasonable, specially not investing $8000 on your car..rather if you can indeed afford $8000, save the time and money and just buy an M3..then build that up.. I built my 328i to be faster, and I guess its as fast or or faster then M3's..but thats a custom supercharger kit... If I were you I'd either sell the car and buy the M3 or keep the car and put a budget kit, no way I would spend $8000 on it to just make it faster then a M3.


Yupe. Sure can.. Problem is that the value of the car wont match anything you put in.. If you want to beat stock m3, buy a m3, upgrade that.. However there are some of us that like our non m's and do build them up. But at the same time do not want it to be a m knock off. Realise this world.. If your vin isnt a m3 vin, your car will never be worth a m3 value without significant real TRACK mods. Bodykit and coil overs do not count. If it is a 323, nomatter what you do to that car, engine swap, full race suspension, turbo/ supercharger. Race seats, $10,000 speaker rig, it will only EVER be a 323 and worth tops $3,500... (Unless dedicated track like mentioned) making a 323 beat a m3 is piontless. Im sure you can travel and find a m3 under $6-$7,000. Then, less work, better resale. Better insurance, and an overall smarter thing to do.... But also as i said, some of us simply dont like m stuff and build our whatevers and badge them accordingly.

He needs the supercharger kit.. at 10 PSI he would be in the same league as a E36 M3..Get him the
SUPPA CHA GA! :stickoutt

[Butters Stoch]

For 8k, you can make the car be faster than 99% of all production cars.

[flyfishvt]

For 8k, you can make the car be faster than 99% of all production cars.

I did it for $7k

[xlDooM]

You can probably do an LS swap for under $8k? But then you need to beef up the brakes, the rear subframe needs to be reinforced, not too sure how happy your diff is gonna be, you still want to tighten the suspension... So yes you can make it faster than an M3, but better than a good M3? Probably not. By the way don't you have the euro M3 in Canada? That car is VERY hard to beat.

You can not make your 323 into something which resembles an M3 in my opinion. You can make it more powerful, but it will always come at the cost of something: throttle response, low-end power, chassis balance, reliability. BMW did a fantastic job with the Euro M3, and even the US M3 is somehow faster than its numbers suggest.

[spyderg0d]

Set it on fire. Thats my motto.

[pbonsalb]

$8000 CAD is about $5500 USD. That would buy a lot of mods. If you can do all the labor yourself, you could make your goal. You can find used M3 motors for $2000 USD, or you can find a used supercharger kit for your M52 for $3000 or you can find a used turbo kit for your M52 for $4000. You can find a used set of konis and sport springs for $500. The rest you will need for odds and ends.

This assumes the M3 you are bench racing against and your 323i are in equally good condition. Most of these 20 year old cars need a lot of maintenance -- like all new suspension bushings, ball joints, mounts and endlinks that will cost you up to $1000 in parts and a bunch of your time. This is true whether the car is an M3 or 323i.

I see nothing wrong with modding a non-M car. Sometimes that is just the car you happen to own, and if you have already sorted it out, it may be the better starting point. I never view the car as an investment. I figure it will only go down in value even if I dump a ton of money in it. Here, if the OP sells his 323i for $3000 USD and adds $5500, can he get a nice M4 for $8500? Maybe, but most likely it will need $1000 worth of parts. Certainly worth considering that option, but I would not say its the only option.