Alignment by hand

[spyderg0d]

So, ive neglected the stealership alignment because for one its $200 at the the only two bmw place within 150 miles. Two because i havent done a ball jiont yet... In the mean time i put on adj ground control cambers and poly trabs. I noticed this morning my rear camber is off as the inside of tire is worn considerably more. My steering wheel is to the right about an inch. When i string my wheels the front are true to each other but the steering wheel is still right. So i think the relation from the front to the steering wheel is whats off. Except the car pulls to the right. So maybe the rtab qualities leave me out. My front camber is more because of my lower springs but im not worried about it as my tires look fine after a few thousand miles.

So essentially how can i get real close without the machine. Ive expirimented a bit and figured i can swivel the rtab bracket while loosened and car on the ground with a pry wedge. They had to of had a way to align a car before laser and string machines.

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I know theres a tool for the rtab bracket, but from my understanding it just swivels the bracket. I can do that without the tool i think.

[snaponbob]

You can not find an independent shop to do it ???

[xlDooM]

The problem is more likely toe and not camber (E36s run a lot of rear camber even stock, and this does not necessarily mean the tires wear unevenly). You can make a contraption with a 2x4 and some right angle brackets, size it so that it is just under wheel length wide bracket to bracket. Then get under the car and measure the front and rear edge distances between the two wheels with this contraption. It's fairly accurate, just rest the 2x4 on something, slide it against one wheel, then use a tape measure or something to measure the extra room on the other side.

Car pulling to the right could be something else still, but if it's no longer pulling anywhere but the steering is still not straight, do this test. Turn the wheel all the way to left lock and right lock. The position of the steering wheel should be mirrored in these two situations. If it is not, the wheel is not centered with relation to the rack, you just need to swap the steering wheel itself over a few teeth on the steering column. If the wheel position is symmetrical against both lock stops, but it's not in the center when the wheels are straight, you will have to turn both tie rods to rectify this. If you have wide wheels or the tie rods are a long way off, you may have one of the wheels hitting the wheel well lining instead of the steering rack hitting the stop. Obviously the tie rods are then not set right either.

[JDStrickland]

Your trouble is more likely to be toe, not camber. Since you are comfortable with the notion that the tires are square to each other, then you can shorten a tie rod by a few turns on one side and lengthen the tie rod by the same number of turns on the other side. If done right, the steering wheel will move and the tires will still be square to each other.

Put the car on a set of ramps so the weight is on the wheels while you are underneath. If you can see a seam (mold mark) on the tires that is in the same place all of the way around the tire, then use this as your measuring point. Measure from as close as possible to the 3:00 and 9:00 positons on the tire to see what the distance is from left to right. If the tires are indeed square to one another, then all you have to do is turn the tie rod on one side to make it shorter by some number of turns, then turn the tie rod on the other side the same number of turns to make it longer. The thread pitch is such that a full turn of the adjusting knuckle should make the rod 1/32 longer or shorter. I cannot see it in my head, but my instinct is that you will make the right side shorter and the left side longer. I would make the first adjustment to be 4 turns of the tie rod. This should move the tire 1/8 inch, and this ought to bring the steering wheel to the middle. If it goes the wrong way, then reverse the long and short sides by 4 turns -- brings you back to the starting point -- then go another 4 turns. It the steering wheel goes the right way, but not far enough, then simply repeat until you have it right.

After all of that, there's no reason you can not go to the tire store and buy an alignment for $69 or whatever. Be sure to ask that they center the steering wheel, not just make the tires straight. You can easily have a perfectly aligned car and still have the steering wheel out of kilter.

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You say the car pulls right. If you are driving on a straight road and take your hands off the wheel, does the car maintain the direction it is going, or does it go places by itself. If it goes straight, then it does not pull right. If you hold the wheel so it is straight, but the car goes right, then it is not pulling. You are pushing it. When a car pulls one way or the other, you have to actively steer the opposite way to make it go straight. So, again, if the car goes straight when you let go of the wheel, then if does not pull to the side. If the car does pull to the side, then it is not square, and the ball joints can easily be the problem. You don't really care about the position of the steering wheel until after you get the car to go straight by itself, and it will not go straight by itself with worn out suspension parts.

[somebody5788]

You can't check camber and caster without an alignment machine... if you don't want to wear tires trying to DIY is probably the worst idea.

[jmo69]

There has to be someone near you that can do a 4 wheel alignment, even the little backwater town I live in has a good shop.

[shogun]

Here is another method with a laser scale http://www.bimmerboard.com/forums/posts/711044/

I use a Trakrite since almost 10 years for adjustment of the steered wheels, very simple http://www.gunson.co.uk/item.aspx?item=1812

[MisterM52]

My nearest shops charges between $50 - $100 depending on where I take it, but not too sure on 4 wheel alignment.

[snaponbob]

You can't check camber and caster without an alignment machine... if you don't want to wear tires trying to DIY is probably the worst idea.

Sorry, but both statements are simply incorrect. I have a Longacre toe plate set, a Longacre digital camber caster/caster gauge with 3 point wheel adapter, and a more recently acquired Smart String rig. I have aligned a LOT of E30s. 36s, and 46s. Setup is critical - of course that is true of an alignment system. Further, an aligner needs periodic calibration and techs that know what they are doing. (There have been a LOT of posts here about shops that say they can not adjust rear toe and/or camber on 36s and 46s!!) I have built stands and use greased tiles as skid plates. The reason I bought the Smart String rig is that "stringing" is too iffy. I am not the only person that aligns BMWs and gets them dead on. It is easy to bring a 36 or 46 to under .1 degree of camber and 1/32" of toe and have proven that to a couple people that doubt it can be done. (We bet the cost of my work AND the cost of the recheck on an alignment machine, and I have not lost.) That said, getting the rear of an E30 done is more of a pain in that ass, but I manage.

Again the setup is what matters the most. My floor is not flat, so I have it marked for where the stands are paced, and each stand is a slightly different height to obtain a level car once on the stands. On my 36 I get camber wear because I have some much in the front. (4.5 neg front and 2.2 rear -which is almost OEM and all I can get). The biggest issue with front toe is rust seized toe adjusters.

And then there is THIS rig. http://www.tenhulzenautomotive.com/ If there are some old farts (sort of like me) that remember "alignment pits" then they recall trammel bars and hub mounted bubble camber/caster gauges.

SO "DIY" alignments are quite possible, can be quite accurate, and if one buys the needed stuff, can be done again and again, (you their own or others cars) and pay for itself rather quickly.

BTW, if a 36 is pulling left or right, either the front caster or camber "splits" are way off, or more likely the rear toe is wrong. THAT said, this assumes that the front bushing, toe assemblies, and lollipops are not worn out, and the RTABs are solid as well.

[spyderg0d]

Ya. My driver inside ball jiont is bad. The car as going down the road, to go straight i have to pull the wheel to the left constantly.

When i string the wheels, the front seem to match perfectly for toe around 1° or around front of tire being in around 1/16 on each front of wheel. However when i do this and match the front wheels as even as possible to the string, the steering wheel is slightly right. I see the camber is pretty intense on the front but my tires arent unevenly worn.

My rear wheels are deff toed in as the front of the rear wheels are about 1/4" more in than the back of the rear wheels. They seem to match in toe.

I tried adjusting the rear camber by sight and i may have over adjusted. Now my rear end seems floaty and loose.

None of the second hand shops will touch my car.

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I tell them they dont need weights, they dont need the rear tool. They dont listen. I must come off as a smart ass retarded child or somthing. They just shoo me off like my cars a parasite to their time. While the stealership gets it done in ten minutes and rapes my wallet.

[snaponbob]

Ya. My driver inside ball jiont is bad. The car as going down the road, to go straight i have to pull the wheel to the left constantly.

When i string the wheels, the front seem to match perfectly for toe around 1° or around front of tire being in around 1/16 on each front of wheel. However when i do this and match the front wheels as even as possible to the string, the steering wheel is slightly right. I see the camber is pretty intense on the front but my tires arent unevenly worn.

My rear wheels are deff toed in as the front of the rear wheels are about 1/4" more in than the back of the rear wheels. They seem to match in toe.

I tried adjusting the rear camber by sight and i may have over adjusted. Now my rear end seems floaty and loose.

None of the second hand shops will touch my car.

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I tell them they dont need weights, they dont need the rear tool. They dont listen. I must come off as a smart ass retarded child or somthing. They just shoo me off like my cars a parasite to their time. While the stealership gets it done in ten minutes and rapes my wallet.


If a shop is aware of work suspension components, then they won't do an alignment. If the BMW dealership WILL align it with bad components, that is just terrible.

There are no special tools needed to align an E36 other than the alignment equipment.

If you really DO have 1/4" toe in at the rear it ABSOLUTELY will feel "floaty".

Have you asked a Firestone or Goodyear store to align your car?

As for actually aligning your car, if you do not have solid components (toe links, lollipops, ball joints, front hub bearings, and RTABs) you are simply burning cash. Can NOT be done properly.

[somebody5788]

SO "DIY" alignments are quite possible, can be quite accurate, and if one buys the needed stuff, can be done again and again, (you their own or others cars) and pay for itself rather quickly.

I am a certified alignment tech, I just can't see doing it effectively any other way or even being close to worth ones time when it's only $100 to get it aligned by a professional that can do it right and give you the print out to prove it.

[scoobiedoo2029]

I am a certified alignment tech, I just can't see doing it effectively any other way or even being close to worth ones time when it's only $100 to get it aligned by a professional that can do it right and give you the print out to prove it.


high end race teams do not bring "racks" with them, they throw swivles on their corner scales and string it. being in the paddock at sebring, lemans, daytona i have never seen an alignment rack. audi goes to sebring with a giant tent and like 20 big rigs, their rack consists of calipers and strait edges an things that look like smart's camber gauges. string alignments can be more accurate then a poorly calibrated laser get up, ive had a laser alignment be over a 1/4in out, and very few shops invest in steering wheel holding tools screwing this up even more, and very few shops will check thrust angles front to rear. never seen a shop center a steering rack/box, or load the car with the drivers weight. none of this matters on a stock rubber bushing car that has a a inch of deflection, but on a more agressive car it makes all the difference in the world.

you can mesure camber with a carpenters square. caster too. within the leval of accuracy of a "alignment tech" or lookl up smart strings an smart camber, DIY is a much better way of doing this then trusting some beat up machine that hasnt been calibrated since new, right after someone pulled a honda off the rack.

.558600

558601

automotive maintenance in america is an seriously screwed up. we can fly airplanes but we cant tighten wheel lugs correctly.

[snaponbob]

I am a certified alignment tech, I just can't see doing it effectively any other way or even being close to worth ones time when it's only $100 to get it aligned by a professional that can do it right and give you the print out to prove it.


I sold alignment and the tools that went with it. I have seen what people do on alignment racks. At this point, if a tech can READ, they can align a car. That has not been so common in the past. And the shops that are using none "video" type equipment still have to know what to do. I have seen guys with a shirt sleeve full of ASE badges that could not even set heads and do a caster swing properly. YOU know what to do. However, as shown by scoobiedoo, there are other ways to get the job done. AND, done properly. I have had my own work checked at a shop I actually sometimes refer people to (and do a GREAT job with state of the art equipment) and they have flatly stated that there was nothing to adjust as everything was within specs and done right. And I am NOT certified.

Alignments are only as good as the tech and the condition of the equipment. Lifts have to be level (not always are), heads calibrated (not always are), suspension properly inspected (often not), and even tire pressure set (often not).

[spyderg0d]

Jeesh.. Il just go to the stealership.. Thanks for the help...

[Beitie]

Alignments are only as good as the tech and the condition of the equipment. Lifts have to be level (not always are), heads calibrated (not always are), suspension properly inspected (often not), and even tire pressure set (often not).
Amen! You are so correct on that. I've had my E36 aligned twice now by a shop that sadly didn't know what it was doing when it came to E36 alignment, so I've had to study it all up on my own, even though I don't have the proper tools. First time the shop had the rear camber split so horribly that each side differed by like 1.5 or more degrees. Also they never centered the steering wheel, and that should be alignment 101. Second time I brought it in, saying that last alignment was un acceptable. They called, said that the adjustment point for the rear toe and camber was the same adjustment (wrong) and that they couldn't get it with in spec. At that point I didn't know how to adjust rear toe, but I do now. When I went to pick the car up, they said "Oh, also it felt like your steering wheel was off a bit, want me to put it back up and fix that?" No! At that point it had been two full days, I wanted to get home! So now it'll have to go back a third time :(

[somebody5788]

I sold alignment and the tools that went with it. I have seen what people do on alignment racks. At this point, if a tech can READ, they can align a car. That has not been so common in the past. And the shops that are using none "video" type equipment still have to know what to do. I have seen guys with a shirt sleeve full of ASE badges that could not even set heads and do a caster swing properly. YOU know what to do. However, as shown by scoobiedoo, there are other ways to get the job done. AND, done properly. I have had my own work checked at a shop I actually sometimes refer people to (and do a GREAT job with state of the art equipment) and they have flatly stated that there was nothing to adjust as everything was within specs and done right. And I am NOT certified.

Alignments are only as good as the tech and the condition of the equipment. Lifts have to be level (not always are), heads calibrated (not always are), suspension properly inspected (often not), and even tire pressure set (often not).

We calibrate our machine once a year and often times have compared it to other shops if even after an alignment the car is pulling yet doesn't show the obvious signs of why. Plus I've never bought an alignment rack setup that didn't come with the steering wheel holder and brake holder. My next rack will have auto air locks for the roller plates and the lights in the rails for the center lifts, that thing is badass.

[spyderg0d]

Oh ya... My alignment machine consists of pink string, 4 card board mats ( ripped boxes) And
Pissing off ppl at the local car wash. . its the only flat level surface in my town...

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So... For the stringers. Your telling me that if i put the front wheels true to the car. And string from the outside front wheels to the outside rear wheels they should alighn?
My car wont start so aligent isnt top priority today.

[snaponbob]

So... For the stringers. Your telling me that if i put the front wheels true to the car. And string from the outside front wheels to the outside rear wheels they should alighn?
My car wont start so aligent isnt top priority today.


Well -- yes and no. The problem with E36s is that the front and rear track width are different. That means that from the wheel centers the distance from the front wheel to the string and the rear wheel is different. Therefore, if the strings are set equal at the front and rear wheel centers the front and rear will be toed out if each wheel is set equal to the strings. That said, assuming one has toe plates, the fronts can be set to spec, then when adjusting the rears when the toe gets to spec one can sight down the edges of the plates and target the treads of the front tires. If the line of sight on both sides hits the same spots (AND the fronts are actually point STRAIGHT forward) that will get you close enough (for now). ANOTHER way to determine the track of the car's front and rear wheels is use the plates (if you have them) is to measure width at the front and back of the plates (first at the front and then the rear), add the measurements and divide in half, and you will have the track of each end. Those measurements can be used to set strings correctly to do the alignment. If one does not have toe plates, strapping 24" or 36" levels to the tires about 6" off the ground will work well to establish the measurements, OR even do the adjustments. (Of course, THAT assumes no sidewall imperfections.

So, once the car starts, best luck. BTW, if you are only setting toe, the pavement does not need to be level, just flat. Camber? That means flat surface.

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We calibrate our machine once a year and often times have compared it to other shops if even after an alignment the car is pulling yet doesn't show the obvious signs of why. Plus I've never bought an alignment rack setup that didn't come with the steering wheel holder and brake holder. My next rack will have auto air locks for the roller plates and the lights in the rails for the center lifts, that thing is badass.

Certainly the right way to do stuff. However, not all shops are so diligent. AND, DYI'ers have to resort to more "old school" solution.

[flyfishvt]

Most of the shops around here charge $85-100 for an alignment. If you only need one every couple years it's worth it to have them do it. My local BMW dealer charges $140. And they use all the factory counter weights. I have a great shop 1 mile from my house. I prefer to give him my business instead of doing it myself.

On the other hand....if I was tracking or swapping suspension setups a lot or if I was flipping cars I'd definitely look into a DIY method. The only problem I see is who is going to teach me and how many alignments am I going to screw up while I'm learning? Tires aren't free and bad toe settings can quickly destroy a brand new set.

I think there's good arguments for both sides. You can pick up used Hunter setups pretty cheap. I like the looks of that rig on the Porche

[spyderg0d]

Well. Juat to make life easier, whats the larger side, front or back axle lengths and by how much. For example. If the front is an inch smaller i can just place 1" styrofoam blocks btwn the front of the front tire during stringing. Likewise for the rear. Then i can set toe to the 1" + whatever toe in should be.

[snaponbob]

Fly, the Porsche is wearing a Smart String rig.

http://www.smartracingproducts.com/smartstrings.html

Easy peasy on an E36. A REAL PIA to set up on an E30.

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Well. Juat to make life easier, whats the larger side, front or back axle lengths and by how much. For example. If the front is an inch smaller i can just place 1" styrofoam blocks btwn the front of the front tire during stringing. Likewise for the rear. Then i can set toe to the 1" + whatever toe in should be.

The front track is wider. I do not remember what the specs are, but if a Bentley manual does not show it, Google it. Set the rear at 1/2 of the difference on each side, and KEEP RECHECKING. We are dealing with measurements of 1/16" or less, so an 1/8" error in string placement will jack up both wheels on one side. Fun.

[spyderg0d]

By how much?

[flyfishvt]

How is that rig attached to the car?

[snaponbob]

By how much?

Who and what are you asking?

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How is that rig attached to the car?


The best answer is to watch a You Tube video.

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BTW, the Smart String has become so expensive that THIS may be a better choice !!! http://www.tenhulzenautomotive.com/store/p1/Professional_4-Wheel_Alignment_System.html Already has the camber gauge and wheel adapter. Simpler set up as well.

[spyderg0d]

Asking anyone who has a correct answer. Lol... Howuch wider is the feont wheel base than the back?

[flyfishvt]

Asking anyone who has a correct answer. Lol... Howuch wider is the feont wheel base than the back?

Google dude....Google. Sorry to be a dick but it took 7.4 seconds http://www.auto-data.net/en/?f=showCar&car_id=10039

[snaponbob]

Correction ---- rear track is wider.

GOOGLE it.

[spyderg0d]

Well.... That went sour.. Sry guys. Having rouph day. Doing too many things at once.

[snaponbob]

Google dude....Google. Sorry to be a dick but it took 7.4 seconds http://www.auto-data.net/en/?f=showCar&car_id=10039


We were both Googling at the same time.

BTW, not indulging in one upping, but I tripped over http://workshop-manuals.com/bmw/ VERY cool asset. I now have it one my desktop. and will put on icon for it on my Galaxy pad.

[somebody5788]

Certainly the right way to do stuff. However, not all shops are so diligent. AND, DYI'ers have to resort to more "old school" solution.

I know not all shops are as good as us, we do strive to be the best. However that being said, I know of at least 2 other shops in my area that try to be the same way. There's nothing wrong with the old school way in many situations, I just don't see it as a practical way to do an alignment. Sure race cars do it but they aren't trying to keep cars from wearing tires over long periods of time. I don't think they are trying to be as accurate as a nice laser alignment system.

Again there are a lot of things we can take away from the old school techniques, even today with the most advanced fuel injection systems we are relearning some of the oldest ways of diagnostics. Instead of using the ancient "Electronic Engine Tester" like this thing http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/MTIwMFgxNjAw/z/yPMAAOxy63FSxXUw/$_35.JPG?set_id=880000500F we are using the new version on a laptop but the old techniques are still applying in the same ways. Most shops are too dependent on scanners telling them everything and they always fall short. But where Internal Combustion hasn't changed much or at all, alignment geometry has changed a LOT! It gets even more complicated when you get away from the standard McPherson system our BMW's have and you get into Multi Link suspension like Audi's have. It just gets to a point where you're going to need an advanced degree in engineering in order to do it properly without a machine to do all the math. You can't check a scrub radius or the SAI unless you REALLY know what you are doing yet the machine can do that all for you. They can also show you things that are causing tire wear that you wouldn't see otherwise.

[spyderg0d]

I dont beleive most of what you said.... Im posative capable of learning in a short amount of time how to align a car accuratly. Right now may be a tire wear noob, but im sure i can understand the variables of the physics involved. Just need some experience advicebin the meantime.

[JDStrickland]

Before, LONG BEFORE, you spin your wheels on doing an alignment in your driveway, you have to replace the worn suspension components else you will be maladjusting one axis to overcome the maladjustment of another one. You might get the car to go straight, but the cost will be (at the very least) a tire that is ripped to shreds. Ignore that the car does not go straight, and fix the stuff that you know is broken or worn out, then go to work making it go straight.

The fact remains with your car, front caster and camber are "fixed" by the suspension parts. That is, there is no adjustment point. You can spend money on camber plates that will give an adjustment on this axis, but the factory specification is that there is no adjustment. The sole adjustment point is the toe in/out.

An alignment is easy enough that any shop that does the procedure can do it on your car. There is nothing that is a mystery. Some shops might not do it right, but I would argue that they probably don't do any of them right. This means they are a bad shop, not that there is something special with your car.

[spyderg0d]

I agree with you jd. But its going to be a while before i do the parts replace as build delemna. Right now the car is my only car and since dd. And until other car is baught (same time build will happen) im making a stretch so i can take time and replace everything at once since il have another dd.

[snaponbob]

Well, first thing to understand is that aligning a car with bad components is pure mental masturbation. I can PERFECT, but as soon as the car moves, the alignment is pure trash.

Next, getting an alignment correct (with new or old equipment, or DIY) is a matter of patience and care. It is far easier to fuck it up than it is to get it right.

Further, the assertion that the most current suspensions require a LOT of knowledge, understanding, and expertise as well as state of the art alignment equipment, to get right is absolutely correct. To assert otherwise is just foolish. The alignment techniques on an E36, 46, or similar is really rather simple. And as I shared earlier, getting a DIY rig set up PERFECTLY is critical.

As for JD's comments, all true for the FRONT. The rear offers camber and toe adjustment. Get the toe wrong and tires tear up. Get the to wrong on ONE side and you get steering pull and wear. Get the rear toe figure correct but miss on the "tracking", and the car will crab and pull.

[E36328Coupe]

101 is scribe around the console bolt heads onto the console and the camber bolt washers and two centre punch marks, then you can put everything back where it came from. It's a heck of a better starting point than random assembly after a parts swap.

[spyderg0d]

Ya. I did it wrong at first. I have adjustable camber arms. I measured the oem arms and put the adjustable at that. Apperently it leaves me with negative camber. And then my toe in leaves me with a horrible car... But. Now i know better measurments. So il get it better.

[JDStrickland]

You're wasting your time f---ing around with the alignment on a car you know to have worn/broken parts in the suspension system. Period. And, you're like a monkey f---ing a football here, you are measuring once and adjusting twice, and arguably measuring and adjusting stuff at home that most of us do not measure and adjust because getting the results to work out well is difficult at best.

You asked about the front/rear track. Assuming the 'vert and the coupe are the same, the track is 55.4 and 55.9, respectively. (according to the '94 Owner's Manual)

[spyderg0d]

Football fucking monkeys lives matter jd.

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See. Its not a waste of time jd. My rear end is sliding all over thebplace when i hit a puddle on one side like i hit black ice. I have to get it closer. I did say i didnt need it perfect as when i do replace the parts i will stealership the thing. Jesus.

[snaponbob]

What the hell just happened ????

[xlDooM]

JDs like that uncle who knows his stuff but you get a free lecture with everything, and spyderg0d is like that cousin who knows just enough to be dangerous.

Spyder, you said you had negative camber, as if that's a bad thing. E36s run quite a bit of negative camber in the rear stock. And the symptoms of excessive neg. camber are not "the back end is all over the place when I hit a puddle on one side". That's a symptom of terribly worn RTABs, everytime you hit a single wheel bump the thrust angle changes and the car shifts momentum around the rear axle. You can think about alignment procedures all you want, but they will not fix your handling issues, nor your tire wear issues. They may fix the constant pulling to the side though, but at this point any time you spend aligning that car would be better spent waxing your neighbour's car for cash or something, so you can afford to have the RTABs replaced.

[spyderg0d]

Sry. Posative camber i meant.

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Just did poly rtabs.. Thats why my alihnment sucks.

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Right now i have obvios posative camber and excessive toe in in the rear. Will ppl ever read a whole thread before replying,?

[xlDooM]

lol there's that attitude again, try not to be a fucking wanker for maybe half a page now? If you just want to get close, fill four bottles with water, draw fishing line between two pairs of bottles, line them up parallel a couple of inches left and right of the vehicle (measure to the hub centers, and the distance between the front and rear bottles). Measure the top and bottom edge of the rim, adjust the camber arm so that the top is something like 0.75" further inward. Then adjust the rtab bracket so that the leading edge of the rim is 1/32" further from the fishing line than the trailing edge. That'll be 0.1 toe in then on a 17" wheel.

The flatter and more level the surface you do this on the better, and I got a tip in another topic: put plastic bags under the wheels so they slide freely while you adjust the toe and camber.

[spyderg0d]

Whats a wank? No need for plastic bags today.. The frozen rain thats 1/16" thick will saffice. I can etch my string line in the ice after i park my car. :)

[snaponbob]

Wanker = jerk off.




wank·er
ˈwaNGkər/
nounBRITISHvulgar slang



a person who masturbates (used as a term of abuse)





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People are reading your posts. You are either getting a case of the ass about what you are reading or pushing back on it.

What was described as a symptom of a worn or RTAB is also the same for excessive toe (in or out). If you have the back of the car so screwed up that bumps in the roads are sending the rear left and right, then the problem is so bad that EYEBALLING the rear wheels will help. As for the camber, adjust the bad wheel to where it appears to be leaning IN a little -- better than leaning out. For the toe in, just sight down the side of the car and adjust each rear wheel until it lines up to the outer edge of the front tire. That will get you much closer than where you are now.

Now, I am going to "pile on" with JD and xlDooM -- if you are copping the same attitude at shops that you are here, there is no wonder why they don't want to mess with your car. They don't need the grief. I owned a successful business for 20 years, and I sure as shit didn't. Saying "NO" can be VERY profitable for a business when it is appropriate.

Cantech Automotive does high end work and has high end equipment. At $159 it may be pricey, but considering what they have (Hunter 811) and the stuff they work on, it might be worth it --------- once you have your car repaired. And $159 is a lot less than tires and a dangerous handling car. So, if I can find a shop (via Google and telephone) from another time zone in 3 minutes (including speaking with them) you probably can as well.

[spyderg0d]

Im not coping attitude to anyone. Everytime i say a reason why i dont want to spend the $200 for the stealership to do an alignment that would be useless because my ball jiont is bad, i just want to string it to get close. My rear alignment is bad because i put NEW POLY RTABS IN and adjustable camber arms... I can see with my blatant eye that its off with excessive toe and posative camber. Then every person posts random stuff without reading why i wanted to know how to do a basic or non exact alignment. Jd mad because he wants me to put a balljiont in before bothering. Xdoom thinks its rtabs,, as i stated already i just put new ones in. Which hes right on what he says but he doesnt understand im only useing only like 2" of tire on both sides so a puddle or bump is going to send traction to one side suddenly as per i read on several other forum threads of cars with the slammed thing and cambered wheels. And attitude??? What the hell was attitude? Im responding.. Isnt that what im supposed to do to get help? Jeez. But thanks for answering my question xdoom. The whole 1/32" more inward on wheel and 3/4" camber arm in. Gotcha.

[flyfishvt]

Tough crowd. My ears can't believe what my eyes are hearing

[snaponbob]

For those that understand -- few words are needed.
For those that don't -- there are not enough words.

You have had plenty of factual and beneficial input. Stop bitching and go tweak the alignment. Stop talking and start working. ALL this damn banter, and the car sits. Anyone see what is wrong with this picture?

[spyderg0d]

Well... Broke my ankle yesterday at work. Guess il be getting to it today. Feom the looks of it il be buying tires today as well. In tw

[JEC928]

Make sure they set your ankle's camber right, spydey.

Thanks to all who posted helpful infos.

[zachdude1100]

The string method can work pretty well as long as you get it set up properly and you're consistent with your measurements. You need to roll the car a few feet after every adjustment to settle the suspension preload you just created. Once you roll the car, if the steering wheel is still straight, and your measurements are still right you will have a pretty accurate alignment.

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Also, after reading the rest of the thread, just a little bit of insight. The guy who suggested just barrel-sighting the rear wheels with the front knows what he's talking about. Just line up both sides of your tire with the front tire. You want a little bit of toe in anyway, so the wider rear track will get that for you. I did that for my rear wheels when I did my rtabs and it measured at 1/16th toe in on the string jig. Read up here if you want to know what alignment specs do to the car. http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?995556-The-Definitive-Alignment-Guide-for-your-E36-M3

[spyderg0d]

I thaught the front was wider. By half an inch.

[snaponbob]

I thaught the front was wider. By half an inch.

Nope. The rear is wider. I had initially stated the front was and corrected myself later in this thread.

[spyderg0d]

Front track is 1408 mm. Back is 1421 mm. Back wheel base is 13mm wider or 6.5mm more out for each wheel.

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Maybe the vert is differant some how?

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Doesnt matter right now anyway.. Slid into a ditch yesterday. Did some front end damage and bent a tie rod. Ordered control arms bushings, tie rods, the other day. Just have to un bend the bumper support end and put a new front clip on.. But insurance will be paying for alihnment now. Tehe. And thats why i have a awsome overkill insurance tag on this thing. Theyl fix it everytime instead of cashing out.

I hydroplaned on slush at 35mph... Doing the bbk wasnt the best idea for winter driving by limiting my smallest wheel size to 17" ×8.5" rims. Might as well asked to go paddle boating.