More fun to drive 535 0r 540i Sport

[vinceg14]

Okay Sports car guy here interested in a sporty 4 door 5er. I like a nimble handling machine even if its to get food at the local market. You just may need to that store located in the hills. With similar upgrades will the heaver 540 perform in the corners as a 535I ?

Thanks guys

Vince

[Layne]

The 540i is not heavier. The engines are almost identical in weight (500lbs), due to the iron block on the M30 vs the aluminum block on the M60. Both are great cars, and both handle well. But 80 additional horsepower is kind of a big deal. And they stopped making 535i's in 93 I think, most of them being 89-91 models, meaning they are generally a bit more ragged than the 94-95 model 540i's. And only about 800 manual ones made if I recall, they're a bit hard to find. Basically the only way you can go wrong with an E34 is to buy an M20 engine (89-90 525i).

[vinceg14]

Layne, Thanks for clarifying the weight. I like the additional 80 HP and a 6 speed.

[zubbie]

23 year old 4 door heavy lump vs 25 year old 4 door heavy lump.

tough decision

[vinceg14]

What's your preference?

[ShapeShifter]

4 door heavy lump for the win.

540/6 is the best bang for the buck.

[e34Croak]

M5.

[PorscheH6]

M5.

[jimmyz66]

540i/6 for sure.

[wilourosen]

535i 5 speed with the correct mods will be lots of fun with a sweet hint of Old School BMW flavor.
By "correct mods" i mean an LSD diff, a good performance chip (Mark D or Turner) and a lightweight flyweel it is a blast to drive, trust me.

540i with 6 speed is a different beast, if you like big torque V8 with that signature growl then you' be right at home, and you'll be grinning on your way to the grocery store even.

I have both engines, but i prefer the feel of my M30 in the 535i, i just wish it had more power.

Ultimate would be an M5 euro 3.8
Nothing, and i mean nothing beats that.
Its what God would drive.

[Neel]

It depends on your style of driving. It may seem like a cop out answer but its not. If you look at the Mazda miata, or last generation Toyota spyder(mr2).. they are small very under-powered cars on paper that are extremely fun to drive when equipped with the handshake option. Anything with a manual trans is fun. My e36 M3 which has had a very extensive suspension build is very fun, the e34 is mostly bone stock in that category and is way slower comparatively is also fun. I guess what Im saying is that both 540i and 535i are fun, but it depends on YOU and what style you drive with whether you are a momentum driver or a power driver. Im not sure if that makes sense but that is how i see it.

[Sam Son]

540

[bagekko]

I am a longtime E34 enthusiast and I got back into the game this year buying a 92 535i 5spd and 95 540i 6spd, intention was always to just keep one of them. I always wanted the 540/6 and even though the 535 was "cleaner", simpler, and easier to work on. I sold the 535 and kept the 540, the extra power is a big difference and the V8 is smoother than the I6.

But if I wasnt so obsessed with the E34 and wanted a older reasonable (LOL) sporty used sedan I would probably get an E39 M5.

[wilourosen]

I'd take a 540i M Sport over a 3.6 M5 any day.

[Binjammin]

The 540i is not heavier. The engines are almost identical in weight (500lbs), due to the iron block on the M30 vs the aluminum block on the M60. Both are great cars, and both handle well. But 80 additional horsepower is kind of a big deal. And they stopped making 535i's in 93 I think, most of them being 89-91 models, meaning they are generally a bit more ragged than the 94-95 model 540i's. And only about 800 manual ones made if I recall, they're a bit hard to find. Basically the only way you can go wrong with an E34 is to buy an M20 engine (89-90 525i).


Actually, a 540 auto is almost 300lbs heavier than a 535 auto. The tranny alone is a lot of extra heft. The 80 extra pounds more than makes up for it though, the 540 is a much better driving car.

[mboor]

true. The auto trans weigh a ton. The 5hp30's a cow. I picked up the 5sp manual trans in my 530 and bolted it up by myself, no hoists or jacks. The manuals arn't very heavy.

[vinceg14]

I push my cars harder than most but don't expect the e34 to do what a 911 can do. I do prefer the extra power with a bigger car. What appeals to me is that combination of grip and performance out of a corner. Imagine going up a mountain road with windy parts, elevation changes and performing better than a mid size should with out buying an M5.

[jimmyz66]

Actually, a 540 auto is almost 300lbs heavier than a 535 auto. The tranny alone is a lot of extra heft. The 80 extra pounds more than makes up for it though, the 540 is a much better driving car.

M5 is 3885 lbs
540i/6 is 3500 lbs
535i about the same as 540i

[boogyman]

Basically the only way you can go wrong with an E34 is to buy an M20 engine (89-90 525i).

This is debatable. Lots of people like the M20. I drive a 540/6 myself, and I had the same thought as you before I actually drove a 90 525i for a few days. Yeah, the power is lacking, but the engine is pretty sweet in it's own right.

[E38740iMD]

I will try to not be biased but i prefer the m30. Which was why i bought the 535i e34.

Yes the v8 is faster and will prolly be what you want. But the 535 is awesome to me with the right mods. Which so happen to be a S3.64 lsd, Mard D chip, and the e28 m5 flywheel. (I have a even lighter one to be installed).



And for a heavy bish, this thing pulls because of the torque. I walked a 2014 nissam mm maxi a a few days ago.

But when heat soaked and your hauling things around. The fun goes away :(

If the v8 feels good in my e38. Them i know it would be fun in the e34. Just never drove one

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This is debatable. Lots of people like the M20. I drive a 540/6 myself, and I had the same thought as you before I actually drove a 90 525i for a few days. Yeah, the power is lacking, but the engine is pretty sweet in it's own right.


Can you explain hows its "pretty sweet in its own right"?

Only thing sweet i can think of is that it could start and "move"

Lots of people like the m20 in the e30s and 2002s. E28s if doing the "e to i" swap

Maybe you could be friends with the one guy that loved the m20 soooo much he wanted to rebuild it back in....2013 i think...Bin you remember? :laugh

[Layne]

I almost mentioned the 200+lb automatic transmission, but I didn't figure he's going for an automatic anyway.

[Binjammin]

M5 is 3885 lbs
540i/6 is 3500 lbs
535i about the same as 540i

An m5 can push over 4klbs heavily optioned. A 535 auto will be at ~3550. A 540 auto will be over 3800. There's a weight difference of hundreds of pounds between the 540 auto and the 535 auto.

[zubbie]

the differences in weight equate to one fat wife in the passenger seat.

[Binjammin]

the differences in weight equate to one fat wife in the passenger seat.

Or two average wives in the back seat.

:eyebrows

[zubbie]

That's why my (skinny) wife is not allowed in my E34. Throws off my driving experience...

[Trasportador]

Or two average wives in the back seat.

:eyebrows

Hahahaha.

[wilourosen]

M5 is 3885 lbs
540i/6 is 3500 lbs
535i about the same as 540i

Correction, 535i 5 speed is 3,300 lbs

[wilourosen]

I will try to not be biased but i prefer the m30. Which was why i bought the 535i e34.

Yes the v8 is faster and will prolly be what you want. But the 535 is awesome to me with the right mods. Which so happen to be a S3.64 lsd, Mard D chip, and the e28 m5 flywheel. (I have a even lighter one to be installed).

And for a heavy bish, this thing pulls because of the torque. I walked a 2014 nissam mm maxi a a few days ago.

But when heat soaked and your hauling things around. The fun goes away :(

If the v8 feels good in my e38. Them i know it would be fun in the e34. Just never drove one

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Can you explain hows its "pretty sweet in its own right"?

Only thing sweet i can think of is that it could start and "move"

Lots of people like the m20 in the e30s and 2002s. E28s if doing the "e to i" swap

Maybe you could be friends with the one guy that loved the m20 soooo much he wanted to rebuild it back in....2013 i think...Bin you remember? :laugh

I have a e28 flywheel in my e34 535i and i have a bit of gear chatter, not very annoying but still there, feels like there's a little monster trapped under my hood at idle, and i just wont let him out ! The car does shake with the single-mass, and thats with a 15lbs flywheel, i imagine going with full aluminum flywheel of even lesser wheight might give you unbearable chatter, unless its a track car that is.

[jimmyz66]

Weight w/o driver for E34 535i auto is 3635
" " 540i auto is 3800

difference in weight is 165 lbs, but 282 hp& 295 tq for 540i and 208/225 for 535i

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Correction, 535i 5 speed is 3,300 lbs

Correct the correction: 535i/5 is 3569 lbs with iron block.

[Neel]

Correct the correction: 535i/5 is 3569 lbs with iron block.

I was going to say, there is no way a 535i manual weighs about as much as my e36 m3.

[Binjammin]

I was going to say, there is no way a 535i manual weighs about as much as my e36 m3.

Not too far off... e36 m3 is 3450 and you have a cage...

[Neel]

I weighed my car bish... 3378, with cage, with spare tire and quarter tank of gas..... don't be saying my baby is fat. Close to 3600 with me in it.. This gorilla needs to go on a diet, again.

[BleedsBlue]

^What are these, E36 M3 Heavyweights? Mine had almost every option and was ~3150 with half a tank and full fluids.

The primary weight difference between 535i and 540i is in the equipment, people forget how massive the M30 block is (in the S38, too). For a fun car, the 540i wins this debate hands down.

Side note: a fully optioned E34 M5 (3.6) is right around 3800 with full fluids, including spare, btw. Careful with citing curb weights posted online, some of the German spec weights include hilarious things like two passengers, or one passenger and certain kilo amount of luggage. I don't run a spare/jack and deleted SLS, and I'm under 3700 w/ full fluids. Still a tank.


I'd take a 540i M Sport over a 3.6 M5 any day.

Your continuing contradictions are confusatory: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2209266-Why-the-V8-is-an-AMERICAN-thing&highlight=v8+american

[mboor]

My 96 M3 coupe 5sp lux weighs in at just over 3200lbs. No weight reduction, well its got a ltw flywheel if that even counts.

[Neel]

I have a very heavy roll bar and some other stuff.. JL stealthboxes etc etc

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I need to get it re-weighed and corner balanced

[atl530i]

I'd rather have the M60Banything just because I'm a lot more familiar with them. I did have an E28 535is and really liked the M30 in that.

[E38740iMD]

I have a e28 flywheel in my e34 535i and i have a bit of gear chatter, not very annoying but still there, feels like there's a little monster trapped under my hood at idle, and i just wont let him out ! The car does shake with the single-mass, and thats with a 15lbs flywheel, i imagine going with full aluminum flywheel of even lesser wheight might give you unbearable chatter, unless its a track car that is.


funny i have no chatter in mine...i mean none!!

i only hear chatter if i am in 4th gear under 1100rpm. but who does that?

in my case the 8lbs e28 jbr flywheel should be a fun experience

[B10 BITURBO]

How can it be more fun to drive a LAME 535 vs massive force (( honest comparison)) 540

[wilourosen]

^What are these, E36 M3 Heavyweights? Mine had almost every option and was ~3150 with half a tank and full fluids.

The primary weight difference between 535i and 540i is in the equipment, people forget how massive the M30 block is (in the S38, too). For a fun car, the 540i wins this debate hands down.

Side note: a fully optioned E34 M5 (3.6) is right around 3800 with full fluids, including spare, btw. Careful with citing curb weights posted online, some of the German spec weights include hilarious things like two passengers, or one passenger and certain kilo amount of luggage. I don't run a spare/jack and deleted SLS, and I'm under 3700 w/ full fluids. Still a tank.

Your continuing contradictions are confusatory: http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2209266-Why-the-V8-is-an-AMERICAN-thing&highlight=v8+american

Yea i love inline 6 engines better than the V8 in general, but that doesn't mean i prefer all inlines 6's over all v8's. My old thread was highlited by me owning an m30 and a m60 and comparing their 2 different personalities.

I was specific and i said i would take the 540i M Sport over the s38b36 US M5, because for the cost of maintaining an m5 i dont find the B36 itself rewarding enough to justify the load of extra cash to throw at it.
The S38B38 however is a different engine almost completely (ask Jim Rowe at Metric Mechanic) and a different story, and a much better engine note.

I hope i clarified it enough for you.

[E38740iMD]

How can it be more fun to drive a LAME 535 vs massive force (( honest comparison)) 540


i like the way the way the car acts when on cam :). exhaust note changes dramatically from off and on cam. you feel the punch on the butt dyno. the 540 is just fast with with a steady force of torque

what i mean is. in e34 535i m30 i can "feel" im driving fast. in my e38 m6X the car gets to 80-90mph and i had no idea. a boring 0-90 mph travel trip

[wilourosen]

i like the way the way the car acts when on cam :). exhaust note changes dramatically from off and on cam. you feel the punch on the butt dyno. the 540 is just fast with with a steady force of torque

what i mean is. in e34 i can "feel" im driving fast. in my e38 the car gets to 80-90mph and i had no idea. a boring 0-90 mph travel trip

Well said, that On Cam feeling makes all difference. You can feel the car "transform" as you go through that threshold. A good performance chip makes that transition Very noticeable.

[jimmyz66]

The best engine performance mod I have done for my 535i/5 is the Miller conversion. Take about changing the engine dynamics for the better, really wakes up the M30. I tried Conforti and Dinan chips, but not even in the same league as the Miller. That and of course bigger sways and sport springs/shocks. Like my short shift kit also.

[wilourosen]

The best engine performance mod I have done for my 535i/5 is the Miller conversion. Take about changing the engine dynamics for the better, really wakes up the M30. I tried Conforti and Dinan chips, but not even in the same league as the Miller. That and of course bigger sways and sport springs/shocks. Like my short shift kit also.

Are you running the WAR chip as well ?

[wilourosen]

The best engine performance mod I have done for my 535i/5 is the Miller conversion. Take about changing the engine dynamics for the better, really wakes up the M30. I tried Conforti and Dinan chips, but not even in the same league as the Miller. That and of course bigger sways and sport springs/shocks. Like my short shift kit also.

Oh and get an LSD, 3.91 if you can, you won't regret it.

[E38740iMD]

The best engine performance mod I have done for my 535i/5 is the Miller conversion. Take about changing the engine dynamics for the better, really wakes up the M30. I tried Conforti and Dinan chips, but not even in the same league as the Miller. That and of course bigger sways and sport springs/shocks. Like my short shift kit also.


i was gonna buy that today i heard mix reviews and was gonna pull the trigger....but i bought a turbo instead:devillook

[jimmyz66]

Are you running the WAR chip as well ?

Yes, I think to run the conversion, you need the War Chip.

[wilourosen]

Yes, I think to run the conversion, you need the War Chip.

Actually the WAR chip is a plus and required only if you want to put turbo and stuff. Other than that if you order just the Miller Maf conversion kit it comes with a chip to run the MAF, just not the WAR chip....which is an extra 400 bucks.

But i guess if you buy the WAR chip and tune it right it might outperform Turner or Mark D chips, only problem is price.

[wilourosen]

i was gonna buy that today i heard mix reviews and was gonna pull the trigger....but i bought a turbo instead:devillook

Same here, but Jimmy apparently bought the WAR chip as well and got good results
But i was planning on getting only the regular MaF conversion but i dunno if its worth doing as i have good performance with my Turner chip.

Even if the WAR chip combo gives good results, im not sure i wanna spend 750 bucks on it when i can get some pretty awesome Broaway Static coilovers for 1,400 and will definitely make more of a difference.

[jimmyz66]

I don't need coilovers on my dd 535i/5. But I did need more pick up and go which the aftermarket chips did not provide. I had a custom tune with the War Chip, and it makes a huge difference. I installed bigger sways with Eibach springs and Billie sports instead. I can also use different gas like 100 octane if I want, but here at Sonoma Raceway it is not worth the $$$$.

[Binjammin]

Actually the WAR chip is a plus and required only if you want to put turbo and stuff. Other than that if you order just the Miller Maf conversion kit it comes with a chip to run the MAF, just not the WAR chip....which is an extra 400 bucks.

But i guess if you buy the WAR chip and tune it right it might outperform Turner or Mark D chips, only problem is price.

You really won't. The idea that a reputable tuner would have left something on the table in a performance chip that will be found by someone buying a DIY tuning package is kinda silly, frankly. On top of it, even Miller has said that the maf conversion doesn't offer any power gains. You buy miller chip tune for stock, make X power. Get conversion kit which requires chip? Make X power again. Your money. :dunno

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I don't need coilovers on my dd 535i/5. But I did need more pick up and go which the aftermarket chips did not provide. I had a custom tune with the War Chip, and it makes a huge difference. I installed bigger sways with Eibach springs and Billie sports instead. I can also use different gas like 100 octane if I want, but here at Sonoma Raceway it is not worth the $$$$.

Why would you burn 100 octane fuel in an m30? :confused

[e24mpwr]

People - Learn to disagree respectfully, or some of you are going away for a while...


Also - read the rules on rudeness and profanity.

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This one is done.