Help chooseing AFR gauge with datalogging

[BimmerMilan]

Hey everyone, I need some help deciding which gauge to get. Little about the car: 2005 BMW M3 with ESS VT2-500 supercharger.

I am currently torn between the following:

AEM Failsafe Gauge.....

http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=pro...failsafe-gauge (http://www.aemelectronics.com/?q=products/gauges/failsafe-gauges/wideband-failsafe-gauge)

Pros:
Displays AFR, boost/vacuum without any extra modules
Logs data automatically for AFR, RPM, boost/vacuum - no PC needed in car
Price $275 total for all these features
Alarm function with output to activate safety feature of your choice

Cons:
Uses the Bosch LSU4.2 sensor
No ability to add features (extra sensor inputs) to the gauge.

VS.

PLX DM-100 gauge $249
PLX AFR Sensor Module Gen 4 $179
PLX Boost/Vacuum Sensor Module $95
PLX iMFD Data Link cable $70
Total cost: $593 for similar features as the AEM gauge

https://www.plxdevices.com/

Pros:
Nicer gauge display than AEM
Uses the Bosch LSU4.9 sensor
Displays all OBD2 engine paramaters on the gauge
Easily expandable to display more sensor data by purchasing additional sensor modules from PLX and plugging them in.

Cons:
Needs a PC connected via cable to be present in the car to data log.
Price is outrageous, especially if adding extra sensors!!!!!


Is the crazy price of the PLX setup really worth it to just get the general OBD data points and the Bosch LSU4.9 sensor? I can read out all the engine parameters at no additional cost using my scan tool. Is the Bosch LSU4.2 sensor really that bad? I'm really only interested in displaying and logging AFR, boost and RPM.

Thank you and any help would be appreciated.

[sdobart]

The Bosch sensors suck. Much shorter life when subject to high heat and leaded fuels. I will always use a wideband with an NGK sensor, such as the NGK AFX. It's the closest you'll get to a lab grade wideband. I hate tuning cars with AEM UEGO widebands.

Not like it matters anyways, since most people who have them have no idea how to use one anyways.

[BimmerMilan]

The Bosch sensors suck. Much shorter life when subject to high heat and leaded fuels. I will always use a wideband with an NGK sensor, such as the NGK AFX. It's the closest you'll get to a lab grade wideband. I hate tuning cars with AEM UEGO widebands.

Not like it matters anyways, since most people who have them have no idea how to use one anyways.

Thanks for the reply. I do not run leaded fuels so that is not an issue I will face. Any suggestions on what gauge setup I should run?

[bry195]

I believe you can add the aq1 from aem to the failsafe if you want more logging channels. 399 street price but they can be had cheaper. tons of inputs and aemnet. future canbus as well I think. the data trending software from aem is really good. you may want to download it and compare the logging packages and see what you prefer.

when synching data is done properly there are 2 methods. if its digital a time stamp is included in channel data. like the failsafe to the aq1 and then software aligns the channels. Im unsure if time stamps are used when obd channels are synched to native channels for logging. "Can" is fast when its done right and synching should not create too much of a difference between native and digital signals but there is more channel traffic than just logging between obd and can. I woould look at latency or errors in data alignment. the other method is to keep data packages small and minimal channels. spray and pray and live with error that is small when compared to useful tuning data resolution.

when in doubt do all analog logging. lots of products like the aq1 can take multiple analog channels and synching is not an issue even with small micro processors. look into experiences with the PLX that are running more than 2 or 3 digital channels. if nobody is complaining about rpm or boost or afr possibly being off a little when logged against obd data you should be fine.

digital busses have come a long way since obd and can. its a whole new world that can work with old digital tech as long as your goals are well thought out and relatively small in relation to the speed and size of data being consolidated. can was truly one of the best inventions ever but it has limitations.

[BimmerMilan]

I believe you can add the aq1 from aem to the failsafe if you want more logging channels. 399 street price but they can be had cheaper. tons of inputs and aemnet. future canbus as well I think. the data trending software from aem is really good. you may want to download it and compare the logging packages and see what you prefer.

when synching data is done properly there are 2 methods. if its digital a time stamp is included in channel data. like the failsafe to the aq1 and then software aligns the channels. Im unsure if time stamps are used when obd channels are synched to native channels for logging. "Can" is fast when its done right and synching should not create too much of a difference between native and digital signals but there is more channel traffic than just logging between obd and can. I woould look at latency or errors in data alignment. the other method is to keep data packages small and minimal channels. spray and pray and live with error that is small when compared to useful tuning data resolution.

when in doubt do all analog logging. lots of products like the aq1 can take multiple analog channels and synching is not an issue even with small micro processors. look into experiences with the PLX that are running more than 2 or 3 digital channels. if nobody is complaining about rpm or boost or afr possibly being off a little when logged against obd data you should be fine.

digital busses have come a long way since obd and can. its a whole new world that can work with old digital tech as long as your goals are well thought out and relatively small in relation to the speed and size of data being consolidated. can was truly one of the best inventions ever but it has limitations.


Wow thanks for the informative post. I think I will go with the AEM failsafe gauge to start with. It has all the features I need for now to do simple tasks such as afr logging. Only thing I was worried about was the accuracy of the 4.2 sensor.

[jjjjjjj]

The failsafe is nice, I feel it is the only gauge I will need for a long time. The onboard data logger and the software is great!! My only complaint so far is that the outer ring is not backlit. My original plan for the gauge was to have the boost reading on the outside and the AFR in the center and while this is good enough, you would just need to program the colors so like at night you would have to memorize (for example) that it lights up green when you hit 8 psi and turns yellow as you top 10 psi. I ended up running an analog boost gauge as well because I wanted to see more.

If you have the money to spend I would also check out zeitronix as their stuff is extremely expandable with multiple logging options

[Grimm5698]

I've heard good things about innovate motorsports, im going to be purchasing their dual oil press/ temp gauge, which is datalog capable

Dual A/F Gauge and boost gauge w/ boost safety
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/psb1.php

Air Fuel Gauge
http://www.innovatemotorsports.com/products/MTXL.php

[digger]

AFR500 is a quality piece, and in the opinion of many pro tuners its more accurate than the innovate stuff and great BFYB. Just make sure you choose the NTK sensor over the bosch LSU

http://www.bmotorsports.com/shop/product_info.php/cPath/103_241/products_id/2337

im currently using this and love it