Starter Trouble

[Phoenix319]

Hey I'm experiencing this clanky noise at startup and I was wondering if you guys know if it's the Starter, the Solenoid, or something else?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWSASRSgzMs

[DesktopDave]

Definitely the solenoid. It's not returning the starter gear. The ringing noise you hear is the flywheel throwing the starter gear back into the starter housing. If you replace the starter, I'd recommend the later Bosch SR440x model. It's a lot smaller and easier to install, yet develops more torque.

[Phoenix319]

Definitely the solenoid. It's not returning the starter gear. The ringing noise you hear is the flywheel throwing the starter gear back into the starter housing. If you replace the starter, I'd recommend the later Bosch SR440x model. It's a lot smaller and easier to install, yet develops more torque.
I was going to replace it with the SR441x but I'd rather just replace the Solenoid for now since it's cheaper. Thank you for the help!

[Derekwh]

I see that both of these starters are available at NAPA $205-10 reman.

[Phoenix319]

I'm thinking of getting a remanufactured starter from EagleAutoElectric on Ebay. Anyone here have any experience with them because their starters cost half the price. Here's the one I'm looking at.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/361222816877

[Bert Poliakoff]

That's a fellow named Jack. He is as good a guy as you will deal with.

[Phoenix319]

Awesome, I'll order it from them then. I was a bit reluctant since it's so cheap and it says "Reman by our company" instead of "Reman by Bosch" but I'll take a chance.
'

[RSheiman]

FCP Euro has a Bosch reman for 133 with fee shipping. I have no afiiliation but know these guys have really stepped up to the plate....though I also trust Bert's word (though not sure why!).

[1986series6]

Just my $.02

Since owning my car, 86 auto, for 27 yrs.--I have replaced 5--- yes 5 rebuild starters.

It was always the solenoid. The last two were SR441x. This time, I had my guy replace a new solenoid

on the Bosch rebuilt because I was sick & tired of the rebuilt solenoids failing after a couple of yrs.

Put in a new solenoid on that rebuilt, you won't regret it.

again, just my $.02

[Phoenix319]

Alright but I think I'll just upgrade to the sr441x starter and replace the solenoid when I need to with a new one next time. If I have to take the large one out anyway to replace thst solenoid I might as well make it easier next time while also having the benefit of a more powerful starter.

[Tnarkowicz]

Suggest you pay the extra few dollars upfront for a new solenoid on the rebuilt starter as replacement is a pain of a job. I did that when buying my starter and got them to also supply an additional spare new solenoid. Did not cost much extra.

[Phoenix319]

Alright but I'm having trouble finding a part number for the sr441x solenoid. Anyone know the part number?

[GhettoDeffender]

i just replaced the starter on my 89 with the smaller late model starter and what a difference it makes in starting the car. Mine was making the noise yours did but with even more terrible grinding. The job wasn't as terrible as everyone had me believe, it took me about an hour and a half, but it was definitely unpleasant, and if your older with a bad back this may take you a long time to complete.

[RSheiman]

The thin wrench from the tool kit is vital to original starter removal.

[pete9903]

Question for all - is the Bosch SR442X currently listed on fcpeuro the old or new style? Have only seen SR440 and 441 mentioned so far in the thread.

If anyone is still on this thread and shopping, this Bosch reman. is listed at $76.11 +$50 core right now, seems like a great price.

[bimas]

Question for all - is the Bosch SR442X currently listed on fcpeuro the old or new style? Have only seen SR440 and 441 mentioned so far in the thread. If anyone is still on this thread and shopping, this Bosch reman. is listed at $76.11 +$50 core right now, seems like a great price.
I don't know the answer, but it seems awfully cheap. As in, maybe it's the old style?

Also, some guys reported the need to remove the intake manifold in order to access the bolts on your original starter. As some mentioned above, the tool kit is essential in starter bolt removal without removing the plenum.

Now, ask me how I know, you can fish out the old far starter if you disconnect one of the hydraulic hoses - but be careful around the heater core, as I cracked mine - which lead to its failure.

[pete9903]

Thanks for the tip Bimas, I'll tuck that away in long-term memory and hope I can recall when I find myself there.

Phoenix, thanks for posting that video, I occasionally get the same sound and now I know why.

[RSheiman]

You guys need to get an M6, starter is a piece of cake c/w the 635.

[pete9903]

Someday, Rob, someday I will :)

[Phoenix319]

Welp I'm experiencing this noise again so I'm gonna replace the solenoid while the starter is still attached to the car. I also read a thread where a guy said he heard a metallic pinging sound just like this but he said it ended up being a stuck valve and broke a rocker arm. Has anyone here actually dealt with this problem before and what it ended up being?

[Noct]

Welp I'm experiencing this noise again so I'm gonna replace the solenoid while the starter is still attached to the car. I also read a thread where a guy said he heard a metallic pinging sound just like this but he said it ended up being a stuck valve and broke a rocker arm. Has anyone here actually dealt with this problem before and what it ended up being?

I was wondering the same thing about my starter/flywheel... could it be the flywheel bad now? And my other car was making the same noise before it stopped running and it also had a head gasket leak (bubbles in the oil after overheating many miles before). It just has to be looked at and diagnosed in person I think.

[Phoenix319]

Well if it was the flywheel wouldn't I hear the noise when shifting? It only occurs when I start the car. Either way I'll just replace the solenoid and see if that fixes it. It's only 50 bucks so I'll buy one on my next paycheck with a new fuel pump since I have a bad check valve.

[Noct]

Well if it was the flywheel wouldn't I hear the noise when shifting? It only occurs when I start the car. Either way I'll just replace the solenoid and see if that fixes it. It's only 50 bucks so I'll buy one on my next paycheck with a new fuel pump since I have a bad check valve.

Oh, I shouldn't assume it to be auto... well good luck with it and let us know how it goes.

[Phoenix319]

Oh, I shouldn't assume it to be auto... well good luck with it and let us know how it goes.
No it's an automatic but automatics shift gears too so I'm basically saying wouldn't I hear the flywheel if it shifts while driving? It only occurs when starting nearly every time I start the car now.

[1986series6]

No it's an automatic but automatics shift gears too so I'm basically saying wouldn't I hear the flywheel if it shifts while driving? It only occurs when starting nearly every time I start the car now.

No, the flywheel will only make noise when trying to start, or just after it fires up. Shifting gears has no connection to the flywheel.

How would you change the solenoid while starter is still bolted to engine block?

If the starter gear makes noise before cranking, it could be a weak connection, not giving full voltage to the magnet in the solenoid.

If the noise is after it starts, it could be a weak return spring or a gummed up shaft.

To test, use a jumper from the positive post of the battery to the start terminal of the solenoid.

If it engages the flywheel with no noise at any time, the solenoild is not the promblem. If it does, then one of the above conditions will apply. It's a drop of voltage from the ign switch to the start terminal.

Get a voltage reading from the battery, then get a voltage reading of the wire going to the starter terminal.

See what the voltage drop is. I believe the solenoid needs 11.5 volts to work properly.

As Euro George says, "that's all I got".



solenoid start terminal. There are 11 connections in that start circuit.

[Phoenix319]

Holy crap that's the exact kind of information I love to see. I will start the testing tomorrow and report back with the results.

Also you just remove the solenoid with 3 simple screws with a stubby screw driver on the back and pull it out with all the connections removed. I've seen a couple tutorials on how to remove a solenoid from a bosch starter and they all seem pretty simple. I don't see why not. Anything is better than removing and reinstalling the starter from an m30.

[Phoenix319]

Good news, I finally got around to testing it on my day off and it was a loose connection of the starter signal wire. I popped it in a little more and now she starts up fast and no more weird metal noise. I might need to get a new cable for it though since it came loose on its own and still feels like it could slip off any time. Thank you for all the help. I'm happy that there's finally a thread out there that addresses this issue now.

[1986series6]

Good news. I solved the connecter problem by changing the terminal end of the wire with an eye end

and used a nut to attach it to the post that's part of the solenoid terminal.

[Phoenix319]

Good news. I solved the connecter problem by changing the terminal end of the wire with an eye end

and used a nut to attach it to the post that's part of the solenoid terminal.
Could you post a pic so I can get a good idea of how that works? The part I don't understand is how you were able to attach an eye end and a nut to the starter signal end.
Number 1 in the picture is the cable I'm talking about.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=539842&stc=1

[1986series6]

On my starter solenoid, connector terminal has a threaded post. I'll try later today to take

a photo and post it for you.


10 PM: Didn't get a chance today, I'll try tomorrow

[Phoenix319]

No problem. We all have lives outside the forum.

[1986series6]

Where your #1 is, my terminal is a threaded stud.

I couldn't get my g9 Canon into that tight spot to get a good photo.

I guess a smart phone would be better, but I only own a dumb flip phone.

Sorry for the blur, but I'm sure you get the picture. No pun intended.

Bob V

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