Converting to Non-Run Flats

[jimfocus]

We have a 2011 328 xi with 225-45-17 Continental run flats that I believe are OEM. We are switching to non-run flats. We have narrowed down to Michelin Pilot Sport all seasons and Goodyear Eagle Sport all season. Both are listed as ultra high performance all season. The Goodyears are less money. Of these two do you have any preferance or feed back? We are planning on getting a spare of the same type (maybe used) and a matching wheel as I've heard all tires must be the exact same diameter or it will screw up the x drive. I'll carry a small bottle jack and a deep socket on a long breaker bar for a lug wrench. Do we need to do that (as it will take up a lot of trunk space) or should I just carry a portable compressor and flat fix as suggested in an earlier post on here?

[Pyewacket69]

We have a 2011 328 xi with 225-45-17 Continental run flats that I believe are OEM. We are switching to non-run flats. We have narrowed down to Michelin Pilot Sport all seasons and Goodyear Eagle Sport all season. Both are listed as ultra high performance all season. The Goodyears are less money. Of these two do you have any preferance or feed back? We are planning on getting a spare of the same type (maybe used) and a matching wheel as I've heard all tires must be the exact same diameter or it will screw up the x drive. I'll carry a small bottle jack and a deep socket on a long breaker bar for a lug wrench. Do we need to do that (as it will take up a lot of trunk space) or should I just carry a portable compressor and flat fix as suggested in an earlier post on here?

You don't state why you're wanting to change to GFT's. That may have some bearing on recommendations.

Is it cost, performance, availability, or something else?

It's impossible to give a rational answer without knowing your goal(s).

[snaponbob]

It is my understanding that your existing rims will only except run flats, and not conventional tires. AAMOF, I was told that run flats require a specific tire machine to change run flats.

[jimfocus]

Do you always answer a question with a question Pyewacket69? If you must know I want to change due to hard ride characteristics, reportedly inferior handling and cost. snaponbob brings up an alarming issue. Am I stuck with these things? I knew they had to be mounted with a special machine but I thought it was because of the beads on the tire, not the rim design. Also, I thought of another question - should the spare be equipped with TPM or will that screw up the system.

[rwhgme]

Do you always answer a question with a question Pyewacket69? If you must know I want to change due to hard ride characteristics, reportedly inferior handling and cost. snaponbob brings up an alarming issue. Am I stuck with these things? I knew they had to be mounted with a special machine but I thought it was because of the beads on the tire, not the rim design. Also, I thought of another question - should the spare be equipped with TPM or will that screw up the system.
We have Michelin Pilot Sport A/S tires on our car and have had them since new. I love them and they work fine on our wheels. I have a 2010 335i xDrive with 52000 miles. I carry a small compressor and fix a flat.

[snaponbob]

jimfocus - I recently bought a 2006 Odyssey. It was about 140k miles on it. Tire were not original and pure garbage. I knew VERY little about run flats except they exist and create more problems then they solve. I DID know that there had been a class action against Honda about these tires. The apparent settlement was replacement of wheels/tires. So, I show up at a friend's shop for install. Before I even got out he and the techs just about ran out of the back door !!! "GOD, tell us those aren't run flats, because we don't have a changer." Anyway, they "learned me up" about them. YES, sadly they take a special wheel that is designed not capture the bead in such a way that without air they will not come off. So, yes, you will need rims. It's just the way the system is designed.

FWIW, Discount Tire on line has some great wheel packages. Also, it should not be too difficult to find some late model BMW wheels that will a) accept pressure sensors, and b) have the correct diameter, setback, width and bolt pattern. Also, you should be able to find a spare that will fit on and in the car.

[floydr]

We have a 2011 328 xi with 225-45-17 Continental run flats that I believe are OEM. We are switching to non-run flats. We have narrowed down to Michelin Pilot Sport all seasons and Goodyear Eagle Sport all season. Both are listed as ultra high performance all season. The Goodyears are less money. Of these two do you have any preferance or feed back? We are planning on getting a spare of the same type (maybe used) and a matching wheel as I've heard all tires must be the exact same diameter or it will screw up the x drive. I'll carry a small bottle jack and a deep socket on a long breaker bar for a lug wrench. Do we need to do that (as it will take up a lot of trunk space) or should I just carry a portable compressor and flat fix as suggested in an earlier post on here?

It's your choice on flat repair: how often do you get flats? Where do you get flats? Right now I'm on my winter go-flats and I hardly give it a thought. AAA is cheap and will get you in 99%+ places you have a flat; why carry either?
I'm a Michelin fanboi, and my son loves his PS A/S 3 on his 335i.

BTW, this is one of the top 5 topics - please use the search function in the future to find everyone's answers and opinions on this.


It is my understanding that your existing rims will only except run flats, and not conventional tires. AAMOF, I was told that run flats require a specific tire machine to change run flats.

This is not true, at least of the BMW wheels: they accept RFT or go-flat tires interchangeably. Pretty much everyone has a machine (actually the tool that goes with the machines) that can remove RFT tires. Your Honda van had a different technology wheel/tire.

[NFerber]

jimfocus - I recently bought a 2006 Odyssey. It was about 140k miles on it. Tire were not original and pure garbage. I knew VERY little about run flats except they exist and create more problems then they solve. I DID know that there had been a class action against Honda about these tires. The apparent settlement was replacement of wheels/tires. So, I show up at a friend's shop for install. Before I even got out he and the techs just about ran out of the back door !!! "GOD, tell us those aren't run flats, because we don't have a changer." Anyway, they "learned me up" about them. YES, sadly they take a special wheel that is designed not capture the bead in such a way that without air they will not come off. So, yes, you will need rims. It's just the way the system is designed.

FWIW, Discount Tire on line has some great wheel packages. Also, it should not be too difficult to find some late model BMW wheels that will a) accept pressure sensors, and b) have the correct diameter, setback, width and bolt pattern. Also, you should be able to find a spare that will fit on and in the car.

While I was surprised (after searching) that the wheels are designed differently to accommodate run-flat tires, they will still work perfectly fine with a normal tire. I have run normal tires on my E90 and my E92 with zero issues, as well as the majority of forum users that have switched. There is no need to get new wheels for normal tires, your current wheels will work just fine.

Also, most tire shops will have machines that work with RFT. Unless you are going to Jimbo's garage out in the sticks, you won't need to worry about the shop.

Another recommendation for tires is the Continental ExtremeContact DWS. I had these previously and was very happy with their performance of an all season tire. Good call on ditching the RFT though, they are expensive, handle rough and all around suck. For a spare recommendation, look at some of the vendors or tirerack, they will offer space saver spare kits that are smaller then a full sized wheel/tire combo while maintaining the same diameter as not to mess with the xdrive system. Or if you don't take long cross country trips often where you might get stranded without a spare, just get AAA.

[Pyewacket69]

Do you always answer a question with a question Pyewacket69? If you must know I want to change due to hard ride characteristics, reportedly inferior handling and cost. snaponbob brings up an alarming issue. Am I stuck with these things? I knew they had to be mounted with a special machine but I thought it was because of the beads on the tire, not the rim design. Also, I thought of another question - should the spare be equipped with TPM or will that screw up the system.

No, I don't, unless more information might be useful. I usually try to be as specific in my responses as possible.

However, if providing additional information is offensive to you, then disregard my responses.

As others have stated, BMW/MINI rims will accept either RFT or GFT versions with no problems, but there are still a few shops out there that don't have the proper tire changing equipment to deal with RFT's, but that number is decreasing rapidly.

A spare without a TPM device will only trigger the car's TPS warning system, and the car will behave as if you have low pressure in an RFT tire, it will not damage the vehicle.

If you're running a donut on an XDrive car, you should do the appropriate research to see what other details might be important to know.

[pauljcl]

No, I don't, unless more information might be useful. I usually try to be as specific in my responses as possible.

However, if providing additional information is offensive to you, then disregard my responses.

As others have stated, BMW/MINI rims will accept either RFT or GFT versions with no problems, but there are still a few shops out there that don't have the proper tire changing equipment to deal with RFT's, but that number is decreasing rapidly.

A spare without a TPM device will only trigger the car's TPS warning system, and the car will behave as if you have low pressure in an RFT tire, it will not damage the vehicle.

If you're running a donut on an XDrive car, you should do the appropriate research to see what other details might be important to know.

I have RunFlats, which I intend to change to regular tires as soon as they wear a little. (RFTs, as stated above, 'suck' in thei feel, handling and comfort). The car came without a spare, but I nonetheless got a 'donut' spare that fits (from BavariaAuto) because I have seen several cases where the tire and rim are irretrievably damaged when the car hits a very deep pothole, which unfortunately do exist. With all due respect, I would like to contradict the statement that the 'new' spare need a TPM device. It does not, since the system has no way of knowing that an extra wheel is in the car. My spare does not have a TPM device, and all is well..... The TPM would only be needed on the replacement or repaired rim when installed.

[Pyewacket69]

I have RunFlats, which I intend to change to regular tires as soon as they wear a little. (RFTs, as stated above, 'suck' in thei feel, handling and comfort). The car came without a spare, but I nonetheless got a 'donut' spare that fits (from BavariaAuto) because I have seen several cases where the tire and rim are irretrievably damaged when the car hits a very deep pothole, which unfortunately do exist. With all due respect, I would like to contradict the statement that the 'new' spare need a TPM device. It does not, since the system has no way of knowing that an extra wheel is in the car. My spare does not have a TPM device, and all is well..... The TPM would only be needed on the replacement or repaired rim when installed. No one, including myself, said the spare needed a TPM sensor. All I said is that a wheel installed on the car without a sensor, regardless of donut, GFT or RFT will trigger an error condition when in use. At least, it seemed obvious to me...

[pauljcl]

No one, including myself, said the spare needed a TPM sensor. All I said is that a wheel installed on the car without a sensor, regardless of donut, GFT or RFT will trigger an error condition when in use. At least, it seemed obvious to me...

"A spare without a TPM device will only trigger the car's TPS warning system, and the car will behave as if you have low pressure in an RFT tire, it will not damage the vehicle." == Sorry if I misunderstood. Must have missed the context.

[Pyewacket69]

"A spare without a TPM device will only trigger the car's TPS warning system, and the car will behave as if you have low pressure in an RFT tire, it will not damage the vehicle." == Sorry if I misunderstood. Must have missed the context.

Well, it seemed intuitive to me (and I would think with most folks) that the discussion was about mounted wheels & tires, not unmounted spares not in use.

But,, there I go "assuming"... AFAIK, no vehicle that has TPMS senses the unmounted spare in the trunk, if the owner is fortunate enough to have one in the trunk to begin with.

Kinda goes back to my original posting on this thread, the point being that before one can give a meaningful answer to a question, a certain level of mutual understanding first needs to be in place... Ain't no big thang...

[cheech1]

Hey Pyewacket, my Tacoma has TPMS sensor on the spare.

[Pyewacket69]

Hey Pyewacket, my Tacoma has TPMS sensor on the spare.

Really?!?

What year is it? I have a 2009 extended cab and it doesn't have one. Then again, it's a donut.

Is your's a full-size spare?

[Titanium09]

I much prefer the system we have up here in the Great White North. Hint: NO SENSORS!

[pauljcl]

Well, it seemed intuitive to me (and I would think with most folks) that the discussion was about mounted wheels & tires, not unmounted spares not in use.

But,, there I go "assuming"... AFAIK, no vehicle that has TPMS senses the unmounted spare in the trunk, if the owner is fortunate enough to have one in the trunk to begin with.

Kinda goes back to my original posting on this thread, the point being that before one can give a meaningful answer to a question, a certain level of mutual understanding first needs to be in place... Ain't no big thang...

In point of fact, cars that come with spares do have a TP sensor in the spare. Only if your car does NOT come with a spare and you subsequently separately purchase a spare do you not need to have a TP sensor in the spare.
I assume that by now we all know what we mean, however well or not we express it. Peace.

[Pyewacket69]

In point of fact, cars that come with spares do have a TP sensor...


That's incorrect. Not all cars with spares come with TP sensors installed in the spare. I've got a 2009 Tacoma that came that way, so I know of at least one that didn't.

In fact, I did a little research on Tacoma pickups on that very subject. Seems that, depending on the year model, they may or may not have come with a spare with TP sensor installed. You can Goggle it yourself if you wish to verify.

Additionally, getting back to a more BMW related area, my wife's MINI came with a donut spare, and it has no TP sensor, either.

Now, what makes sense to me is that a vehicle that has a spare exactly the same as one of the 4 wheels on the ground SHOULD come with a TP sensor installed, as that wheel would be completely interchangeable with any of the other 4.

[pauljcl]

Now, what makes sense to me is that a vehicle that has a spare exactly the same as one of the 4 wheels on the ground SHOULD come with a TP sensor installed, as that wheel would be completely interchangeable with any of the other 4.[/QUOTE]

Precisely. I have yet to see or hear of a donut wheel with a TPM.
I am astonished (but do not doubt the veracity of your statement) that the Tacoma spare, if the same size as the other four rims/tires, does not have a TPM. My Lexus, which has a full-size spare, has a total of 5 TPMs, which includes the spare. I guess the TPMS can be configured to accept/require four OR five inputs. Some TPMs also transmit a reading of the actual pressure, as opposed to just a 'pass/fail' of a given threshold pressure.
I thought Minis came with RFTs, and did not have a spare. The people I know who have Minis have moved to non-RFTs when their tires wore out, and some opted to buy a donut (obviously without a TPM) or else a 'repair kit' such as those sold by Tire Rack and others. I don't know of anyone who has had to use the 'repair kit' and have wondered at how effective it really is.

[Pyewacket69]

Now, what makes sense to me is that a vehicle that has a spare exactly the same as one of the 4 wheels on the ground SHOULD come with a TP sensor installed, as that wheel would be completely interchangeable with any of the other 4. Precisely. I have yet to see or hear of a donut wheel with a TPM. I am astonished (but do not doubt the veracity of your statement) that the Tacoma spare, if the same size as the other four rims/tires, does not have a TPM. My Lexus, which has a full-size spare, has a total of 5 TPMs, which includes the spare. I guess the TPMS can be configured to accept/require four OR five inputs. Some TPMs also transmit a reading of the actual pressure, as opposed to just a 'pass/fail' of a given threshold pressure. I thought Minis came with RFTs, and did not have a spare. The people I know who have Minis have moved to non-RFTs when their tires wore out, and some opted to buy a donut (obviously without a TPM) or else a 'repair kit' such as those sold by Tire Rack and others. I don't know of anyone who has had to use the 'repair kit' and have wondered at how effective it really is.[/QUOTE]

The Tacoma owner's manual (2009 year) specifically states that no spares come equipped with TPS sensors... Page 423, IIRC.


Up until a couple of years ago, the base Mini was still available without RFTs and came with a donut spare. I don't know about the current models.

My wife's Mini convertible was a factory ordered specific model, and was a bit of a hybrid, in that it came with RFTs and a donut spare. I've had a lot of fun with a few Mini "experts" tell me that was impossible, and then I would show them the original window sticker and the spare mounted in its storage compartment on the car.

As for the patch kits, like you, I have no direct or indirect experience with them on vehicle tires. What little experience I've had with the concept (on bicycle tires) has been somewhat less than satisfactory.

Just my opinion, but I'd think having a current AAA membership might be desirable if one chooses to run GFTs without some sort of spare.

[Pyewacket69]

Just out of curiosity, I checked out the 2014 Base Mini model manual on the Mini web-site. It's still available with GFTs and a donut spare.

I was a bit surprised...

[pauljcl]

They are not really 'patch' kits - more like a gooey substance you inject into the tire through the valve then inflate the tire, and the gooey substance supposedly finds the hole and blocks it. Not much use if you hit a big pothole and the tire is damaged and the rim bent. I would feel a lot safer with a donut. And that is why I got a donut for my 335i notwithstanding RFTs which I intend to change later. IMO, You did the right thing with your wife's convertible.

[Rudolph320i]

When I worked at the Hyundai dealer, those cars didnt come with run-flat tires and the spare tire (donut) was still optional. You got an air pump and some fix-a-flat. Let me tell you how many angry calls we got when people hit potholes, bent/cracked the rims or tore the sidewall and found there wasnt a spare tire in the car. PA roads eat low profile tires for breakfast, in the 8 months I worked there I put a full set of rims and tires on a customers Veloster.

[Ian1973]

I ditched the run flats a week after owning my car. It was a serious POS with the run flats. If I get a flat, I guess I will deal with not being to get home. The pluses far outweigh the minuses IMO. I honestly thought I owned a Mustang prior to switching them out.

[WoLF]

I ditched the runflats and went with Michelin AS3 All-Seasons. Love them.

[venona7]

I converted from Bridgestone RFTs to Michelin Pilot Super Sport GFTs and noticed a much improved ride. I was cautioned by Costco (the installer) to not use any fix-a-flat product on these tires because it would completely void their warranty. Allstate Motor Club was the option I chose

[cheech1]

Really?!?

What year is it? I have a 2009 extended cab and it doesn't have one. Then again, it's a donut.

Is your's a full-size spare?

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been hung over since New Years eve.

My Tacoma is an access cab 2008, with full sized spare. And the sensor for the spare has gone off a couple of times. Pain in the ass to have to drop the spare to air up.

[Pyewacket69]

Sorry I didn't reply sooner, I've been hung over since New Years eve. My Tacoma is an access cab 2008, with full sized spare. And the sensor for the spare has gone off a couple of times. Pain in the ass to have to drop the spare to air up.

Lol!

Thanks!