Went to the store, parked, on start engine grinded and seized.

[BMW IDFR]

I am 99% sure i need a new engine.
After parking at a local hardware store, I turned the car off, and after 4 minutes when I went back in to start, the engine made a horrible chainsaw noise but turned over, then finally seized.
I called the lady for a ride home. Don't sugar coat it, what could it be?
The timing could not be worse!

[Binjammin]

Uh, how did you determine that the engine seized, and not your starter?


I'd wager that if you're SURE your engine's seized, it sounds like you munched your timing chain guides or something, and the chain has bound and now you can't turn the engine. Start by pulling the valve cover.

Actually, start by trying to turn the engine with a socket and long ratchet, if you can't turn it, THEN start taking it apart.

[BMW IDFR]

Uh, how did you determine that the engine seized, and not your starter?


I'd wager that if you're SURE your engine's seized, it sounds like you munched your timing chain guides or something, and the chain has bound and now you can't turn the engine. Start by pulling the valve cover.

Actually, start by trying to turn the engine with a socket and long ratchet, if you can't turn it, THEN start taking it apart.

Thanks Bin! I hope I didn't bend anything trying to get it to run before it seized!
The starter seems legit, it turned it over successfully, my only mistake is trying to run/idle it for 5 seconds to see where the sound was coming from, I should have turned it off!

I will get to tearing it down please wish me better news! I think I'm positive it is the timing chain deal

[Binjammin]

Thanks Bin! I hope I didn't bend anything trying to get it to run before it seized!
The starter seems legit, it turned it over successfully, my only mistake is trying to run/idle it for 5 seconds to see where the sound was coming from, I should have turned it off!

I will get to tearing it down please wish me better news! I think I'm positive it is the timing chain deal

Uhm, in better news, you can upgrade to an m50tub25?

[ross1]

Thanks Bin! I hope I didn't bend anything trying to get it to run before it seized!
The starter seems legit, it turned it over successfully, my only mistake is trying to run/idle it for 5 seconds to see where the sound was coming from, I should have turned it off!

I will get to tearing it down please wish me better news! I think I'm positive it is the timing chain deal

Don't beat your self up over it. The damage was done instantly.
It's not uncommon for t-chain "failures" at start up.

[sbeckman7]

Yikes! How many miles on that thing?

[BMW IDFR]

Yikes! How many miles on that thing?
122,000 km! young - what a shame!

[Binjammin]

122,000 km! young - what a shame!

What is that, like a million miles?


Why aren't you out taking that thing apart?

[cochise325]

What is that, like a million miles?


Why aren't you out taking that thing apart? No, more like 100,000 miles. Like he said......young.

[BMW IDFR]

good point! here we go then...

[Binjammin]

No more like 100,000 miles. Like he said......young.

Apparently it's "take Ben literally" day on the internet. :rolleyes

[whiskychaser]

Don't beat your self up over it. The damage was done instantly.
It's not uncommon for t-chain "failures" at start up.

Second one in a week. Also had one in the UK where the long chain actually broke.


Your cue to explain the 'cigar smoke' test, Ross?

[BMW IDFR]

small update, I arranged a tow to a friend's garage, I may have answers this weekend.

Thanks for your participation! I appreciate this

[2santiago]

Good luck

[BMW IDFR]

UPDATE!
Since Nov 10 2014, I was drafted into the military.
I am back and after driving around a Peugeot 206 with strange noises that belonged to my mother in-law, I want my bimmer back!

I am on christmas leave, and I took off the valve cover myself because my mechanic told me to scrap my engine. Well I didn't wanna!
I found the chain that goes to the crankshaft, and wraps around the exhaust-side sprocket has jumped out of the teeth it sits on, I also found several black plastic pieces I suspect to be the timing chain guide, probably the lower-outer that the tensioner pushes onto.

My question is what is the next step? do I have to take off the camshafts? can i just take out the front of the cylinder head cover and do the service there?
How do i re-time the engine after I install new parts?
Thanks all for your help, I need help reviving this tread!

Merry Christmas to all and I hope you and your family find each-other well and full of positive energy

[Binjammin]

If you jumped time you likely bent valves. Seems like a waste of time to put it back together just to take it apart again.

[BMW IDFR]

If you jumped time you likely bent valves. Seems like a waste of time to put it back together just to take it apart again.

it only ran at idle for 5 sec. is that enough to bend the valves? IT HAPPENED AT A PARKING LOT WHEN i wanted to leave.
If i were on the freeway, yes the valves would probably be bent then.

- - - Updated - - -

capslock sry!

[Binjammin]

Dude. It was running. That's WAY more than enough force to bend a valve.

- - - Updated - - -

Or several valves for that matter.

[e24mpwr]

If your timing chain is part of the issue, the answers are ugly. Drop a nice, used motor in there. Probably cheaper, and certainly easier/faster.

[whiskychaser]

it only ran at idle for 5 sec. is that enough to bend the valves? IT HAPPENED AT A PARKING LOT WHEN i wanted to leave.
If i were on the freeway, yes the valves would probably be bent then.

- - - Updated - - -

capslock sry!
If a valve doesn't move, a piston is going to hit it around 60 times in 5 seconds. So the question may not be if they are bent but how many. When this happened to me, I was in a car park too. I got 12 bent inlet valves and thought I was lucky there was no damage to the valve seats or guides. See if you can get a feeler gauge between the top of the tappet and the cam on valves which are supposed to be closed. If you can, it is a good indication that the valve is not coming up far enough to close - because the valve stem is bent.

[BMW IDFR]

good advice all!
I am probably going to get a used m5 engine, it is around the same price for a used junky m50b20 here in greece.

HOWEVER I am still going to tear this engine apart for the eyes of the members here!

a small update: I counter-rotated the engine and the chain went in reverse, back to the teeth of the inner sprocket. I am in the process of removing the timing gears and later the camshafts.
I will have some pictures soon!
any ideas for a new engine? it's silly to go 2.0 if I can get something better, yes?

- - - Updated - - -


If a valve doesn't move, a piston is going to hit it around 60 times in 5 seconds. So the question may not be if they are bent but how many. When this happened to me, I was in a car park too. I got 12 bent inlet valves and thought I was lucky there was no damage to the valve seats or guides. See if you can get a feeler gauge between the top of the tappet and the cam on valves which are supposed to be closed. If you can, it is a good indication that the valve is not coming up far enough to close - because the valve stem is bent.

They seem tight, the engine turns by hand no problem, I will be very sad to scrap this engine it was nice.

what can I do to the new engine to prevent this from happening again? change all the plastic guides? I want this to be the first and last swap!

[whiskychaser]

If you ever rode a bicycle, you will know that chains stretch. On your bike, it means the chain comes off and the pedal hits you in the shins. Very painful, but you recover. When this happens to your engine, it can wipe out the chain guide, tensioner arm and valves. Not so easy to recover. Work out which bits you need to make this one live again and compare that to the cost of a good used engine. I was thinking M50B25 but you could go with an S38. It would not be plug and play but would be a lot more fun.

[Binjammin]

If you ever rode a bicycle, you will know that chains stretch. On your bike, it means the chain comes off and the pedal hits you in the shins. Very painful, but you recover. When this happens to your engine, it can wipe out the chain guide, tensioner arm and valves. Not so easy to recover. Work out which bits you need to make this one live again and compare that to the cost of a good used engine. I was thinking M50B25 but you could go with an S38. It would not be plug and play but would be a lot more fun.

Chains don't stretch, they wear, just FYI.

[m735is]

Pull the plugs and shine a flash light down the hole. I bought a car with a hole in one of the pistons and valve head laying in there. Probably from the same scenario that you have.

[The Night Rider]

good advice all!
I am probably going to get a used m5 engine, it is around the same price for a used junky m50b20 here in greece.


What? You can get an S38 for the same price as a junky M50!? That is insane, if it is true maybe I need to vist Greece for a day or two.

[mboor]

Chains don't stretch, they wear, just FYI.

please explain.

[Binjammin]

please explain.

http://www.diamondchain.com/img/elongation.jpg

[BMW IDFR]

Pull the plugs and shine a flash light down the hole. I bought a car with a hole in one of the pistons and valve head laying in there. Probably from the same scenario that you have.
That's damn good advice! thanks!

- - - Updated - - -


What? You can get an S38 for the same price as a junky M50!? That is insane, if it is true maybe I need to vist Greece for a day or two.
give or take about ~ €200 and you can find a whole s38 for the total of €700 - maybe missing a few rubber hoses but still.

- - - Updated - - -

Pictcha Time ;)


http://regulon.org/photos/photo.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo3.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo4.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo2.JPG

[Binjammin]

That's damn good advice! thanks!

- - - Updated - - -


give or take about ~ €200 and you can find a whole s38 for the total of €700 - maybe missing a few rubber hoses but still.

- - - Updated - - -

Pictcha Time ;)


http://regulon.org/photos/photo.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo3.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo4.JPGhttp://regulon.org/photos/photo2.JPG

That looks like the worst place ever to work on a car.

[BMW IDFR]

haha yeah, it's pretty bad ;)

at least i have most of the tools close-by
and hot for christmas too! must be 25°C!

- - - Updated - - -

hey, how do I take off the intake manifold enough to take it aside? i already have it off the studs, but it is too close for me to pull the head off

[Binjammin]

haha yeah, it's pretty bad ;)

at least i have most of the tools close-by
and hot for christmas too! must be 25°C!

- - - Updated - - -

hey, how do I take off the intake manifold enough to take it aside? i already have it off the studs, but it is too close for me to pull the head off

Did you remove the bolts for the bracket to the block?

[BMW IDFR]

yes i removed the two 13mm bolts, but it still wants to hang around!

[Binjammin]

yes i removed the two 13mm bolts, but it still wants to hang around!

Bolt for the dipstick tube?

[whiskychaser]

yes i removed the two 13mm bolts, but it still wants to hang around!
Are the hard fuel lines which run under the manifold still attached to it?

[Binjammin]

Are the hard fuel lines which run under the manifold still attached to it?

From the body to the intake the lines are soft, more than enough to pull the intake back from the head to pull the head off the engine...

[darknezz7]

So tensioner failed and guide broke?

Freaky, sounds like a some other cars I know thing... is this just inherent to 520is?

beautiful country!

I've worked on cars in much worse... Its like 40*F, rain and mud here... All I have is a crappy open faced shed with plywood floor to work in, at least it keeps me dry...

[BMW IDFR]

guys it was the dipstick! +1 to binjamin!
i am removing the head! let's see!!!

[mboor]

http://www.diamondchain.com/img/elongation.jpg

thank you

[Binjammin]

thank you

No worries :)

[BMW IDFR]

Update(s):
I am removing the exhaust manifold,
I already removed most of the wired parts on the cyl head.
New Engine on the way: M50B20 / €300 (s38 is €900 and I cannot pay right now,)
So when i said before a couple posts about the same price on any engine, I was probably a little too optimistic :(

I have invited a friend to help me take photos and lift the head off tonight. I will keep you posted!

- - - Updated - - -

Donor car: http://www.car.gr/parts/view/4462185/

[Binjammin]

Don't feel badly, even if you could have found an s38 at that price, would it have had EVERYTHING? I doubt it. You'd need a new tranny, driveshaft, shifter, all the wiring, exhaust, cooling system, all hoses that go with, all accessories... really the only thing that would be the same other than the body of the car itself would be the front subframe, and all the steering parts would stay as well.

[BMW IDFR]

Don't feel badly, even if you could have found an s38 at that price, would it have had EVERYTHING? I doubt it. You'd need a new tranny, driveshaft, shifter, all the wiring, exhaust, cooling system, all hoses that go with, all accessories... really the only thing that would be the same other than the body of the car itself would be the front subframe, and all the steering parts would stay as well.

Good point Bin

-Hey Merry Christmas btw! to Bin and all my participants!
It has been a pleasure having your company during hard times, and during mellow evenings browsing the forums!
Health and best wishes to all!

A little more especially to Bin, who always answers insightful information which calms our cars down!

Καλά Χριστούγεννα!!

[whiskychaser]

Don't want to spoil your Xmas but the donor car in the advertisement appears to have a non vanos engine?

[BMW IDFR]

Don't want to spoil your Xmas but the donor car in the advertisement appears to have a non vanos engine?
correct! That is exactly what i've got :) m50b20 nv Siemens Controlled

[whiskychaser]

correct! That is exactly what i've got :) m50b20 nv Siemens Controlled

Ah. Your details say it is a '93 and I took that to be the build date. They stopped making NVs in around September 1992 - hence my question.

Have a good Christmas!

[BMW IDFR]

Ah. Your details say it is a '93 and I took that to be the build date. They stopped making NVs in around September 1992 - hence my question.

Have a good Christmas!

with e34's in my country who knows what they swapped! I have seen 95's with only two front power windows, a couple 94's without airbags I guess mine is a late '92?

I crack up every time I check the classifieds, not to mention if it is above 2500cc they think it's cool to slap on an M5 badge!

[whiskychaser]

with e34's in my country who knows what they swapped! I have seen 95's with only two front power windows, a couple 94's without airbags I guess mine is a late '92?

I crack up every time I check the classifieds, not to mention if it is above 2500cc they think it's cool to slap on an M5 badge!


Put the last 7 digits of your VIN number in here and it will tell you the production date: http://bmwfans.info/ or use a decoder like this to get more details of how your car left the factory: http://www.bmwvin.com/

Some low spec Euro E34s did actually come from the factory with electric windows in the front only :-)

[Jungerishere]

Isn't that the same thing? Chain stretch because it is worn? :confused Worn pins and busings are part of the chain...



http://www.diamondchain.com/img/elongation.jpg

[The Night Rider]

Its just technicalities.Saying the chain is stretching implies that the metal links themselves are stretching, whereas the measurable "stretch" or elongation is due to wear and not really metal creep or anything (as far as I know).

[Binjammin]

Isn't that the same thing? Chain stretch because it is worn? :confused Worn pins and busings are part of the chain...

No, stretching implies plastic deformation, whereas wear is what you see above. The end result of both is that the chain will have a larger effective diameter, but they describe two completely different things.

For instance, if you had a chain link actually stretch, it would be a short time before it finally snapped. A worn chain will function for a long time, it takes a good amount of wear to get a chain beyond the point of no return.

- - - Updated - - -


Its just technicalities.Saying the chain is stretching implies that the metal links themselves are stretching, whereas the measurable "stretch" or elongation is due to wear and not really metal creep or anything (as far as I know).

Exactly that.

[BMW IDFR]

Announcing my next car: http://s30.carcdn.gr/5820/5820551_2_b.jpg
I made an installment deal with the guy. it's a '95 525i, M50TUB25!
137.000km mint as hell,
the only downside is it has the grandfather clock instead of OBC, I will swap from the 520i
http://s30.carcdn.gr/5820/5820551_c_b.jpg

- - - Updated - - -


*****DAMAGE PHOTOS BELOW m50b20****

Short block looking good
http://regulon.org/photos/a.pnghttp://regulon.org/photos/b.png
Something broke one of the upper tensioner mounting holes, the threaded forward of the two middle. now what new cylinder head I guess?
http://regulon.org/photos/c.png
valves look bueno

[Binjammin]

The valves won't look bad until you take them out. It looks like there's some clean edges on some of the intake valves, can you take pics of those?

[BMW IDFR]

The valves won't look bad until you take them out. It looks like there's some clean edges on some of the intake valves, can you take pics of those?

i cleaned my combustion chamber with hydrogen-peroxide/water 3% & baking soda a year ago, all the carbon is flakes, and not solid like my e30 a decade ago
this photo is as-is with no cleaning
http://regulon.org/photos/e.png

- - - Updated - - -

hey what can i do about the broken piece? it holds the upper chain tensioner, i am talking about the piece from the aluminum cylinder head

[Binjammin]

Yeah, that chamber looks ok, but honestly, I've seen kissed valves that had zero signs of being bent, and arguing over whether they were bent or not with the owner. Easiest way to tell is pull the cams out and lay the head on its back, then fill the head with water (like if you're CCing a head) and see if it leaks out. That's usually the proof. Even after doing that once, I still had to break the head down and chuck the valve in a drill to prove to the owner that it was bent. Wobble city. You'd be amazed at how little bendage it takes to keep a valve from closing.

Also, the valve face doesn't bend, the stem does.

- - - Updated - - -

I'm not seeing the broken part, can you take better pics or is it something so obvious I should just see it? :confused

[BMW IDFR]

hold on don;t go away! I am doing it right now!

- - - Updated - - -

http://regulon.org/photos/f.png

[Binjammin]

hold on don;t go away! I am doing it right now!

Bro, are you new? Do I ever leave? :rofl

- - - Updated - - -


hold on don;t go away! I am doing it right now!

- - - Updated - - -

http://regulon.org/photos/f.png

It's hard to tell in the pics, but that break, where the tube is snapped off... it looks like it's really dirty. A fresh break would be clean and shiny. If it's dirty, that's been broken a long time.

Scrap the head.

[BMW IDFR]

Bro, are you new? Do I ever leave? :rofl LOL! no?

- - - Updated - - -



It's hard to tell in the pics, but that break, where the tube is snapped off... it looks like it's really dirty. A fresh break would be clean and shiny. If it's dirty, that's been broken a long time.

Scrap the head.[/QUOTE]
Ahh poo! I guess i am looking for a new head... but i am still going to attempt a repair :)

[Binjammin]

LOL! no?

- - - Updated - - -



It's hard to tell in the pics, but that break, where the tube is snapped off... it looks like it's really dirty. A fresh break would be clean and shiny. If it's dirty, that's been broken a long time.

Scrap the head.
Ahh poo! I guess i am looking for a new head... but i am still going to attempt a repair :)[/QUOTE]

The only way to repair that would be to tig it, and it's not worth it.

[K Fox]

The only way to repair that would be to tig it, and it's not worth it.

^^ This. That break is gonna be a bear to fix. And welding cast anything that was inside of an engine isn't fun. Lots of cleaning, de-gassing, then some preheat and you can weld, and you'll still have a mess boiling out. If you're not going to do it yourself, a welder would want to charge you as much a a good whole engine (likely). So yeah, you can play with it to see, but I'd not try to fix it and run it again - new(used) head is the way to go.

Fox

[Binjammin]

^^ This. That break is gonna be a bear to fix. And welding cast anything that was inside of an engine isn't fun. Lots of cleaning, de-gassing, then some preheat and you can weld, and you'll still have a mess boiling out. If you're not going to do it yourself, a welder would want to charge you as much a a good whole engine (likely). So yeah, you can play with it to see, but I'd not try to fix it and run it again - new(used) head is the way to go.

Fox

And if it's not welded in flat, the tensioner will be misaligned. That won't cause issues with chain alignment, but it could easily make it crack, or cause the broken part to break again too.

[BMW IDFR]

would a cyl. head for a vanos engine work for my purposes? or is there a difference when I install my front head cap (the flat peice of metal thet goes infront of the splines above timing cover) ?

[EuroPartConnect]

Chains don't stretch, they wear, just FYI.

You sir are wrong on this aspect. Having seen 3 chains stretch on n63t's. I wouldn't have believed it myself if i didn't see it right in front of me. This was on a car with 38k.

[Binjammin]

You sir are wrong on this aspect. Having seen 3 chains stretch on n63t's. I wouldn't have believed it myself if i didn't see it right in front of me. This was on a car with 38k.

So you're saying you had plastic deformation of the links on a chain? I don't want to call you out on that, but it's extraordinarily unlikely. Wear is extremely likely.

[EuroPartConnect]

So you're saying you had plastic deformation of the links on a chain? I don't want to call you out on that, but it's extraordinarily unlikely. Wear is extremely likely.

I'm saying this is what bmw stated when we did a puma case for the issue we were having (vanos faults and crank position faults) They stated the chain was stretch and to replace it. We measured it compared to a new chain and there was a pretty significant difference. More than the chain tensioner could take up.

[Binjammin]

I'm saying this is what bmw stated when we did a puma case for the issue we were having (vanos faults and crank position faults) They stated the chain was stretch and to replace it. We measured it compared to a new chain and there was a pretty significant difference. More than the chain tensioner could take up.

Yeah, that's chain wear. If you managed to actually stretch a link (or a few links) that means you've gone beyond the point where the metal is elastic and will rebound, and the more you put tension on it the more it will just continue to stretch. If you've managed to get to the point where metal stretches like that it's really just before the point where it snaps, it's not like you get stretched metal that hits a stretch limit and stops stretching.

[BMW IDFR]

hey chain debate! I need some help here! lol jk does a m50 vanos head = m50 non vanos ? are they cross compatible?
answer and you may continue your chain story lol

[K Fox]

OP - I'm not sure on the head compatibility question, so I'm waiting for Bin to let us know (he always seems to know these little details). Meanwhile...


I'm saying this is what bmw stated when we did a puma case for the issue we were having (vanos faults and crank position faults) They stated the chain was stretch and to replace it. We measured it compared to a new chain and there was a pretty significant difference. More than the chain tensioner could take up.

I just want to say that Bin is 100% right on this. Granted, it's a little bit of semantics, as it's generally known that 'chain stretch' refers to it wearing and elongating. Anyone whoe rides motorcycles will be very familiar with this as drive chains are the learning curve - they 'stretch' a lot, and sometimes very quickly, as the amount of abuse they suffer can be pretty high. But it's just internal wear on the pins that allows the elongation of the chain overall.

Ans as he said - if you managed to have a link or two physically stretch, there will be some major issues going on, as that takes a lot of force, and it does leave a piece of metal hovering right at it's breaking point. Anyone who's worked with cranes in any way knows all about proper 'stretch' and it's consequent disastrous effects.

Fox (has both of the requisite experiences above...as well as welded professionally. I can back Bin's dropped knowledge in here 100%)

[Binjammin]

I think the heads will interchange, but I'm really not sure. I bet Jon knows.

- - - Updated - - -

Or maybe Ross.

[Titius Justus]

The 2 heads will bolt up, the head gaskets are the same between the two engines. BUT - the VANOS head will have provisions for the VANOS actuator, clearance for the extra cam gear, etc. and from what I have found the camshafts in the M50B25 and M50TUB25 have different degrees for actuation, so you'll risk the DME/ECU setting a CEL. The M50B25 head has 1mm thicker valve stems and dual valve springs (the VANOS heads have only 1 spring per valve). You may have to swap out camshafts... Do these interchange?

My opinion and previous experience tells me to advise you to go with the option that has the least question marks - and find a head from a M50B25. Too many question marks are raised by trying to put the VANOS head on the non-VANOS block.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong and you could put it on without any issue. Unless you could find someone to say that the head will 100% work, I wouldn't risk it.

[Binjammin]

The 2 heads will bolt up, the head gaskets are the same between the two engines. BUT - the VANOS head will have provisions for the VANOS actuator, clearance for the extra cam gear, etc. and from what I have found the camshafts in the M50B25 and M50TUB25 have different degrees for actuation, so you'll risk the DME/ECU setting a CEL. The M50B25 head has 1mm thicker valve stems and dual valve springs (the VANOS heads have only 1 spring per valve). You may have to swap out camshafts... Do these interchange?

My opinion and previous experience tells me to advise you to go with the option that has the least question marks - and find a head from a M50B25. Too many question marks are raised by trying to put the VANOS head on the non-VANOS block.

On the other hand, I could be completely wrong and you could put it on without any issue. Unless you could find someone to say that the head will 100% work, I wouldn't risk it.

Well, thicker valve stems won't matter, as they're actuated by lifters anyway. Having more room for the vanos actuator won't matter, because OP has a non-vanos engine anyway, which negates pretty much all concerns. Further, I could swear vanos and non vanos heads are the same casting anyway.

[Titius Justus]

Yeah, that's chain wear. If you managed to actually stretch a link (or a few links) that means you've gone beyond the point where the metal is elastic and will rebound, and the more you put tension on it the more it will just continue to stretch. If you've managed to get to the point where metal stretches like that it's really just before the point where it snaps, it's not like you get stretched metal that hits a stretch limit and stops stretching.

Binjammin! How are you my friend? :-D

Binjammin is correct; BMW may have been saying the chain has "stretched" because it's easier to explain to the layman why the chain appears to have lengthened (instead of saying the pins and chain leaves wear against each other, causing the holes in the leaves to get bigger and the pins to wear down; over the span of dozens of pins and leaves, all this wear adds up and the chain gets longer). The chain does get longer, appearing as if it were "stretched".... but it gets longer because of wear, not metal stretching. Like Binjammin said, if any metal stretches past the point of it's ductility, it will snap. Especially in chains this is true as the chain is designed to keep the camshafts closely timed with the crankshaft, so the metals used have low ductility, meaning they don't stretch and are somewhat brittle. Metals can vary from ductile to brittle depending on the purpose but generally speaking chains are designed to "give" very little. Compare the coil spring against the engine block; the coil springs will "stretch" quite a bit before breaking, versus the casting of the engine block - which will crack easily because it's design is to remain very rigid to keep all the parts closely aligned. Any stretching of the block would cause catastrophic failure to the engine components. If the steel in the springs were made with similar steel and manufacturing techniques as the engine block, they would fail catastrophically because they would snap under the slightest deformation. Different metals = different purposes.

- - - Updated - - -


.... I could swear vanos and non vanos heads are the same casting anyway.

This is true. The machining of the two are different though; one head has to accommodate the VANOS solenoid and actuator, and the intake cam gears are different. Whether or not this will affect the function is the question. Thicker valve stems and additional springs won't matter, correct. But the camshaft grinds are different, which raises a question mark, so he's looking at swapping the cams; would the machining differences accommodate the older camshafts?

[BMW IDFR]

i fixed the old head because I could not find a non-vanos at the moment. It is also the night after christmas, and I need a car to get around...
I have torched the parts, oil sweat came out, wiped off, drilled, grinded & sanded mating surfaces, and used a metal epoxy for high temeratures, immediately I installed the chain tensioner to re-enforce during the glue hardening process, and to ensure proper posture of the brocken column.

so far it is holding up, the glue says it holds up to 200kg of opposite force, i am sure i did the preparation well, and i even hit it with a hammer to check stability.
In all honesty I think i'm good to go!

who wants to see a photo?

PS. Big thanks to all the wonderful participants!

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update: I am taking off the timing cover on the block (driveway)
I had a hell of a time finding an allen wrench for the drive belt tensioners, you don't wanna know what i did >:)

The mission is to remove the t/c guides and all the garbage bits
do I have to re3move the oil pan? or can i just loosen the immediate bolts that hook up to the timing cover?

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HELP! Do I have to remove the crankshaft's pulley holder to remove the timing case?
real oem is no help in this procedure...

I must go get an air-gun?

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oh F**K It's called a "jesus bolt" How am I ever going to get this off!

[Binjammin]

You used epoxy? Take it apart now before it breaks the second you start the car.

[mboor]

I'd be hesitant, at best using that repair method. Do you really want Binjammin saying "I told you so"?

[whiskychaser]

You need to lock the flywheel to get the 'Jesus bolt' off. Maybe check this out:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1929653-Removing-your-M50-lower-timing-case-cover
You don't need to drop the oil pan. But you need to be careful not to damage the oil pan gasket. The timing cover has two locating dowels and needs to come off straight. Don't be tempted to lever if off or you could crack it. You will need new gaskets when you come to refit it. They are very flimsy and a bit of a fiddle to fit. I used a bit of gasket seal to hold them in place.

FWIW, I think using epoxy and valves which may have bent stems is very risky.

[Titius Justus]

I'd be hesitant, at best using that repair method. Do you really want Binjammin saying "I told you so"?
+1 this...

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...FWIW, I think using epoxy and valves which may have bent stems is very risky.

+1 this also...

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You used epoxy? Take it apart now before it breaks the second you start the car.

+1 this too...

[BMW IDFR]

Guys, reeelaaaax :)
It has been broken a while now, I've only improved it, If I find a cylinder head when I look for parts tomorrow ill grab it, in case i don't then what choice is there? I don't mind swapping an engine a little later, I need to be somewhere Jan 3rd (military stuff)
I know the risks, but what failed with my engine is my ears, the engine was grinding since I bought the car and I never checked the timing chain guides.
But if I had to blame a part, it would be: 11311726503 and his brother, 11311726480
I think the cylinder head has been worked on before by someone who broke more than he fixed (Almost everything was loose), and the car still ran ok
and i did not use just any epoxy, it is something like jb-weld

I need to get the jesus nut off so I can get my car moving, so i can get to wherever money is, to repair it properly, welcome to Greece.

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see look:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=519975&stc=1

[whiskychaser]

But if I had to blame a part, it would be: 11311726503 and his brother, 11311726480

I think you have it the wrong way round - they will have been damaged by the chain. Your pic shows you have already fished out the tensioner arm 11311726503. I hope the chain did not wipe out its pivot bolt as it did on mine. I cannot speak for your car but on mine it was not a bolt at all. It was a dowel. Drilling that out by eye while using a 90 degree drill adapter was interesting.

[BMW IDFR]

I think you have it the wrong way round - they will have been damaged by the chain. Your pic shows you have already fished out the tensioner arm 11311726503. I hope the chain did not wipe out its pivot bolt as it did on mine. I cannot speak for your car but on mine it was not a bolt at all. It was a dowel. Drilling that out by eye while using a 90 degree drill adapter was interesting.
:eek: I guess im in for an adventure.

[Binjammin]

:eek: I guess im in for an adventure.

We're all along for the ride at this point.

[BMW IDFR]

I am trying to find a reliable pole or pipe to use as a breaker bar... I already bent my pool sweeper stick, I may take apart my neighbor's fence to borrow a stainless post.:devillook

I am looking for proper tools stay tuned

[Binjammin]

Uh... what are you using to keep the engine from spinning?

[BMW IDFR]

Uh... what are you using to keep the engine from spinning?

screwdriver in the flywheel where the special lock is supposed to go

[Binjammin]

screwdriver in the flywheel where the special lock is supposed to go

Do not use the oil pan to lock the flywheel if that's how you're going to remove the jesus bolt, you can crack the oil pan.

[Titius Justus]

Jesus bolt?

[Binjammin]

Jesus bolt?

Big bolt that holds the crank trigger/balancer hub to the crank. Held on with something like 320nm torque.

[BMW IDFR]

Organized the engine parts and bolts
http://regulon.org/photos/h.JPG

My Work Bench, an old pc, the modic, tools
http://regulon.org/photos/i.JPG

Used Salt and Vinegar to clean ground cables
http://regulon.org/photos/j.JPG

[BMW IDFR]

removed the crank bolt! that's a big m/f!

how do I take off the rest of the obstacles? how to I get the pulley hub off?

Thanks!

PS. I used a big COPPER pipe (6cm diameter), but I only needed 1.5-2m of it.

[whiskychaser]

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E34-Sedan/South_Africa/525i-M50/R-A/feb1992/browse/engine/belt_drive_vibration_damper/

Remove the bolts - item 3 in the diagram. Item 2 will probably just fall off. You may have to wiggle item 1 a little. It has a small hole for the locating pin so you cannot go wrong when replacing it.

Hope you had no family or friends on that car ferry

[BMW IDFR]

http://bmwfans.info/parts-catalog/E34-Sedan/South_Africa/525i-M50/R-A/feb1992/browse/engine/belt_drive_vibration_damper/

Remove the bolts - item 3 in the diagram. Item 2 will probably just fall off. You may have to wiggle item 1 a little. It has a small hole for the locating pin so you cannot go wrong when replacing it.

Hope you had no family or friends on that car ferry

Thanks, no I had nobody on the boat, thanks

I am talking about number 6, the hub... it is hard to remove!
it is still on my engine partly off

[5mall5nail5]

You need to lock the flywheel to get the 'Jesus bolt' off. Maybe check this out:
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1929653-Removing-your-M50-lower-timing-case-cover
You don't need to drop the oil pan. But you need to be careful not to damage the oil pan gasket. The timing cover has two locating dowels and needs to come off straight. Don't be tempted to lever if off or you could crack it. You will need new gaskets when you come to refit it. They are very flimsy and a bit of a fiddle to fit. I used a bit of gasket seal to hold them in place.

FWIW, I think using epoxy and valves which may have bent stems is very risky.

DO NOT REMOVE THE CRANK BOLT BY HOLDING THE ENGINE STILL WITH THE FLYWHEEL PIN. You will break the flywheel pin right off and it will find its way to making a mess in the bell housing. Get the crank holder tool and let it hit the frame rail. Or, drop the pan (which you have to do anyway to take the timing cover off properly) and put a 2x4 between a counter weight and the block.

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Thanks, no I had nobody on the boat, thanks

I am talking about number 6, the hub... it is hard to remove!
it is still on my engine partly off

It's hard to remove because the woodruff key is probably bent. When your timing chain failed, or had been failing for a while, it probably let the hub vibrate and make nasty bangs against the woodruff key. You will need to use a gear puller on it.

Dude I have an empty M50NV head I would send you for free if you pay for it all. Don't use that thing with the JB welded column.

[Binjammin]

DO NOT REMOVE THE CRANK BOLT BY HOLDING THE ENGINE STILL WITH THE FLYWHEEL PIN. You will break the flywheel pin right off and it will find its way to making a mess in the bell housing. Get the crank holder tool and let it hit the frame rail. Or, drop the pan (which you have to do anyway to take the timing cover off properly) and put a 2x4 between a counter weight and the block.

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It's hard to remove because the woodruff key is probably bent. When your timing chain failed, or had been failing for a while, it probably let the hub vibrate and make nasty bangs against the woodruff key. You will need to use a gear puller on it.

Breath. You wastes it.

[525iDrew]

If I were you, I'd take him up on that cylinder head. There are no such things as jimmy fixes with a BMW. They end up breaking more than was messed up to start.

And just because you used JB Weld doesn't mean anything. I'm familiar with it. Doesn't hold up well. We're talking about an engine here, not a model plane.

[BMW IDFR]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520280&stc=1
I want to do this right.
New timing cover, inspection for every valve.

I am trying to get an old crankshaft seal off the new/used timing cover, i don't want to crack this one too, any tricks?

[whiskychaser]

I put some insulation tape on the blade of a screwdriver (so it would not scratch the cover) and just levered the seal out. If you support the front of the cover, you may even have enough room to just drive it out from the back. Have you got a pic of the front of the block showing what remains of your timing chain guide?

[BMW IDFR]

I put some insulation tape on the blade of a screwdriver (so it would not scratch the cover) and just levered the seal out. If you support the front of the cover, you may even have enough room to just drive it out from the back. Have you got a pic of the front of the block showing what remains of your timing chain guide?
let me get a photo, stay poot

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The only one left on the block was half of the hybrid metal/plastic guide, the all-plastic one just vanished, no trace kinda funny
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520282&stc=1!

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The only one left on the block was half of the hybrid metal/plastic guide, the all-plastic one just vanished, no trace kinda funny
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520282&stc=1!

[mboor]

There are no such things as jimmy fixes with a BMW.

Amen. it's not a chevy man.

[BMW IDFR]

exactly. I spent alot on parts today, gaskets for EVERYTHING, valvestems and all the other bits, 1 long chain, 2 tensioners, 3 guides+1 (4th is on the center tensioner), valve spring compressor tool, glass square, and sandpaper the super fine kind

pics when i organize the mess!

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need help, I got a new crankshaft seal, but it is hard to install into the timing case, i do not want to crack this case too! so how do i get the new one installed? any tricks? how far is it supposed to go? the new seal is thinner, updated? its also half as deep

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should i just use the valve spring compressor?

[Binjammin]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6IX3ocOpDk

Please note that I haven't watched this video, but if you search "how to install a seal" you'll find plenty more results.

[whiskychaser]

The remains of the guide rail are probably in the oil pan. You might be able to fish some out with a bit of welding rod or a bent coat hanger. Is it me or are you missing the bottom bolt for the rail?

[Binjammin]

The remains of the guide rail are probably in the oil pan. You might be able to fish some out with a bit of welding rod or a bent coat hanger. Is it me or are you missing the bottom bolt for the rail?


Wait wait... I missed this, is he not planning on dropping the pan? :confused

[BMW IDFR]

did it using valve spring compressor

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Wait wait... I missed this, is he not planning on dropping the pan? :confused

I am dropping the oil pan and installing a new gasket after i get the new timing case back on.

[whiskychaser]

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I am dropping the oil pan and installing a new gasket after i get the new timing case back on.

Have you found the second bolt for the guide rail? I don't want to be the one who gives it the kiss of death by suggesting what I think may have happened to it.

[R12RT]

This is a great read! Good luck. What a pretty view! You're working well under pressure.

[BMW IDFR]

welcome r12rt!
Dear all, I jus finished installing valve stem seals and it is quite a feelin'!
I used an 11mm deep socket to punch the new ones in. That's a tip for future readers
Channel locks to get the old ones off.

I am focusing my attention to the engine block outside.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520373&stc=1

[5mall5nail5]

let me get a photo, stay poot

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The only one left on the block was half of the hybrid metal/plastic guide, the all-plastic one just vanished, no trace kinda funny
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520282&stc=1!

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The only one left on the block was half of the hybrid metal/plastic guide, the all-plastic one just vanished, no trace kinda funny
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520282&stc=1!

So, you realize that you need an oil pan gasket at the bottom of the timing cover, right? And the only way to put the timing cover back on properly, since it has alignment dowels and needs to come off straight and go back on the same way, is to drop the pan, right?

[BMW IDFR]

update:
I am doing the valve seats with grinding paste! last stage and the cyl head is almost ready.
I removed the jb-welded colunm from the cylin. head and used a drill and a welder to weld the core.
I then used permatex cold weld (best paste) to fill the gap. I saved the head from scrappage.

[whiskychaser]

So, you realize that you need an oil pan gasket at the bottom of the timing cover, right? And the only way to put the timing cover back on properly, since it has alignment dowels and needs to come off straight and go back on the same way, is to drop the pan, right?
The oil pan gasket is reasonably thick though. His pic shows the section under the timing chain cover is now gone - well, bar a bit in the corner. If OP cleans that bit off, I think he might just get the timing chain cover back on before he drops the pan. I am not normally a betting man. But how about $10 to your favourite charity if he doesn't manage it?

[Binjammin]

The oil pan gasket is reasonably thick though. His pic shows the section under the timing chain cover is now gone - well, bar a bit in the corner. If OP cleans that bit off, I think he might just get the timing chain cover back on before he drops the pan. I am not normally a betting man. But how about $10 to your favourite charity if he doesn't manage it?

What's the point, the pan needs to come down anyway.

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update:
I am doing the valve seats with grinding paste! last stage and the cyl head is almost ready.
I removed the jb-welded colunm from the cylin. head and used a drill and a welder to weld the core.
I then used permatex cold weld (best paste) to fill the gap. I saved the head from scrappage.

You wat

[5mall5nail5]

The oil pan gasket is reasonably thick though. His pic shows the section under the timing chain cover is now gone - well, bar a bit in the corner. If OP cleans that bit off, I think he might just get the timing chain cover back on before he drops the pan. I am not normally a betting man. But how about $10 to your favourite charity if he doesn't manage it?

He'll get the timing cover on because the oil pan gasket is missing for some reason there. The gasket is one piece. But, you CANNOT put the timing cover on with the oil pan in place. Ask me how I know - you'll end up folding/kinking the oil pan gasket. There are locating dowels on the timing cover that will be too high to put on with the gasket in place. The gasket is meant to go on with the timing cover in place. I put the timing cover on my car after machining it when I had an oil leak and I tapped it in place with a hammer and ended up wrinkling up the metal oil pan gasket and having to drop the whole thing.

[BMW IDFR]

guys, after carefully inspecting, I need an exhaust valve, just one on cyl. 3
too damn bad! I was hoping i got all the parts i needed.
I better do this right... im in the market for a single e.valve

[whiskychaser]

What's the point, the pan needs to come down anyway.


Don't be surprised if OP not only replaces the timing chain cover but doesn't bother removing the pan. He is in a hurry. It isn't by the book but it is doable

OP, valve from the dealer will cost about 40 euros. I don't know if exhaust valves can be refurbished. If so, you are looking at about one quarter of the price

[Binjammin]

Don't be surprised if OP not only replaces the timing chain cover but doesn't bother removing the pan. He is in a hurry. It isn't by the book but it is doable

Would I be surprised by anything he does at this point? :confused

He needs to drop the pan to get the scrap guide parts out so they dont block the sump and starve his engine for oil. Before anyone jumps in, yes, it is extremely likely.

[5mall5nail5]

Don't be surprised if OP not only replaces the timing chain cover but doesn't bother removing the pan. He is in a hurry. It isn't by the book but it is doable

It is not doable. Period. The block and timing cover are exactly even at the bottom when attached. Because the oil pan gasket is steel with silicone, it is supposed to compress. You cannot compress the gasket down against the pan AND push the timing cover back to the block, while lining up the pins, without ruining the oil pan gasket. The timing cover is not just bolted on - it has locating dowels. When you get the dowels lined up you CANNOT push the timing cover back to the block without jacking up the oil pan gasket. I know this, I spent 4 hours trying to avoid removing the oil pan.

[BMW IDFR]

Don't be surprised if OP not only replaces the timing chain cover but doesn't bother removing the pan. He is in a hurry. It isn't by the book but it is doable

OP, valve from the dealer will cost about 40 euros. I don't know if exhaust valves can be refurbished. If so, you are looking at about one quarter of the price

I got a new oil pan gaskt guys, the full set of gaskets i even got timing cover gaskets. The correct order is oil pan off, timing cover on, gasktet + oil pan on.

[mboor]

just pull the dowles out of the block:chainsaw

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Seriously, im kidding. Please don't do that.

[5mall5nail5]

just pull the dowles out of the block:chainsaw

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Seriously, im kidding. Please don't do that.

They're in the timing cover anyway. And yes, do not do that.

[mboor]

Can't say in familiar with timing cover dowl location op's engine. just to reitterate: THIS WAS A JOKE. DO NOT DO THIS OP!

[Binjammin]

They're in the timing cover anyway. And yes, do not do that.

Duh, why waste all that time? Just grind them off.

:shifty

[BMW IDFR]

y'all westerners makin' funnies at me?

Happy New Year, many healths and good wish to all

[whiskychaser]

y'all westerners makin' funnies at me?

Happy New Year, many healths and good wish to all
Do it your own way. I know you can get the timing chain cover on without dropping the pan because I have done it. We are very close to the New Year. You may have even reached it due to the time difference. So I would like to wish you all the best and hope your engine runs very soon

[Binjammin]

Do it your own way. I know you can get the timing chain cover on without dropping the pan because I have done it. We are very close to the New Year. You may have even reached it due to the time difference. So I would like to wish you all the best and hope your engine runs very soon

Can it be done? Sure. Will it ruin a gasket? Yep. Does he have to drop the pan anyway, thereby negating any need for the shortcut of not dropping the pan? Absolutely. Does he have the necessary gasket to drop the pan? Uh-huh.

Is trying to get the timing cover on with the pan on a terrible, unnecessary idea, and is it bad advice to suggest it?

Priceless.

[whiskychaser]

Can it be done? Sure. Will it ruin a gasket? Yep. Does he have to drop the pan anyway, thereby negating any need for the shortcut of not dropping the pan? Absolutely. Does he have the necessary gasket to drop the pan? Uh-huh.

Is trying to get the timing cover on with the pan on a terrible, unnecessary idea, and is it bad advice to suggest it?

Priceless.
It can be done and wont ruin a gasket. No he doesn't have to drop the pan anyway but it would be wise. If you have not done it, you might regard it as bad advice. Up to OP what he does. Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all our readers

[Binjammin]

It can be done and wont ruin a gasket. No he doesn't have to drop the pan anyway but it would be wise. If you have not done it, you might regard it as bad advice. Up to OP what he does. Meanwhile, Happy New Year to all our readers

It can, and it will ruin a gasket. Regardless, did you not notice where OP says he's missing an entire guide rail? That's all lying in wait in the pan, just begging for the chance to clog the oil pump screen, or worse, get pulled into the pump.

[whiskychaser]

It can, and it will ruin a gasket. Regardless, did you not notice where OP says he's missing an entire guide rail? That's all lying in wait in the pan, just begging for the chance to clog the oil pump screen, or worse, get pulled into the pump.
I may have lost track. But I think I may have been the first to suggest OP goes fishing for the missing bits? You don't have to wear the party hat but we are now in the New Year. So I will just wish you and yours all the best. That goes for everyone else on the board. Have a good one.

[5mall5nail5]

Do it your own way. I know you can get the timing chain cover on without dropping the pan because I have done it. We are very close to the New Year. You may have even reached it due to the time difference. So I would like to wish you all the best and hope your engine runs very soon

$20 for you to take a video of it the next time you do it. 100% absolutely not possible without jacking it up. And not only that, but you can't apply RTV properly at the block/timing cover joint either.

[BMW IDFR]

Dear friends,
I am still looking for an exhaust valve, I will lap the rest of the valves, except the bent one.
I tried to hammer it straight. But this is NOT possible, it was bent while it was hot.

What is the debate point about the oil pan? maybe I can clarify something?

The OP's name is Nick, sorry I never introduced

[whiskychaser]

The debate was whether you can fit the timing cover without dropping the oil pan. But you have already said you are going to drop the pan then fit the timing chain cover so it is a moot point.

I am all for improvising when the need arises. But I draw the line at hammering valves straight :-)

[mboor]

Nick, I understand the need for unconventional fixes at times. You will never straighten a valve with a hammer. We're not trying to reuse old nails here... The valves are machined to precise tolerances, if it's not laser straight it's prob not going to seal.

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I think you should scrap that head, and take who ever offered up a free head to you on that generous offer, and save yourself the trouble of doing this again or junking the car because you don't want to do it again.

[BMW IDFR]

Nick, I understand the need for unconventional fixes at times. You will never straighten a valve with a hammer. We're not trying to reuse old nails here... The valves are machined to precise tolerances, if it's not laser straight it's prob not going to seal.

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I think you should scrap that head, and take who ever offered up a free head to you on that generous offer, and save yourself the trouble of doing this again or junking the car because you don't want to do it again.
I think you are right.
i need yet again a set valve stem seals for the new head.

[R12RT]

Happy New Year Nick! You're hanging tough with this project. Did you decide to go with another head?

[BMW IDFR]

guys, should i get new pistons? one of mine, #3 has punched the exhaust valves, I want to weigh them too and balance them, or can I get updated pistons? what pistons fit my block?

thanks r12rt! you too, indeed I am getting a new/used head

[Binjammin]

guys, should i get new pistons? one of mine, #3 has punched the exhaust valves, I want to weigh them too and balance them, or can I get updated pistons? what pistons fit my block?

thanks r12rt! you too, indeed I am getting a new/used head

If you didn't break the valve face off the stem, I would doubt you'd need new pistons. They're the least likely thing to be damaged significantly from this.

[BMW IDFR]

If you didn't break the valve face off the stem, I would doubt you'd need new pistons. They're the least likely thing to be damaged significantly from this.
piston 3 has a small chip like a fingernail clipping blown off

[Binjammin]

piston 3 has a small chip like a fingernail clipping blown off

Pic?

[LUVMY540I]

piston 3 has a small chip like a fingernail clipping blown off
Couldn't resist.. JBweld it? Happy New Year folks!

[R12RT]

I know someone who was changing heads and had a few too many beers while putting it back together and he mis-timed his head 180 degrees. He forgot to turn it over by hand first. He put it all together and hit the starter. Opps! He bent several valves and made a dent in one of his pistons. He fixed the head and never looked back. He never replaced the piston, motor still running strong. This was years ago.

Just sayin'. . . Not giving advice. Don't know if he's lucky or sitting on a time bomb. Others will know better then me.

[Binjammin]

I know someone who was changing heads and had a few too many beers while putting together and mis-timed his head 180. And he forgot to turn it over by hand first. He put it all together and hit the starter. Opps! He bent several valves and made a dent in one of his pistons. He fixed the head and never looked back. He never replaced the piston, motor still running strong. This was years ago.

Just sayin'. . . Not giving advice. Don't know if he's lucky or sitting on a time bomb. Others will know better then me.

I've put plenty of piston-valve contact engines back into service, with no issues from it ever to my knowledge. I'd just like to see this fingernail sliver of piston.

[BMW IDFR]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520520&stc=1

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new hardware stuff, new head
I lapped the valves after this photo was taken

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80 euros with core exchange, i didn't tell them it was broken and i dirtied the break spot

[whiskychaser]

It has to be worth 80 Euros for peace of mind alone :-)

[BMW IDFR]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=520528&stc=1

quick only 3 hours of daylight left!

TO THE OIL PAN!

[mboor]

I've put plenty of piston-valve contact engines back into service, with no issues from it ever to my knowledge. I'd just like to see this fingernail sliver of piston.

+1. one of the ones i fixed was my personal vehicle, an old 95 VW passat. There was a small chunk out of one of the pistons from when the timing belt broke and the valves hit thte pistons (thats how i ended up with the car). i ran that car for many thousands of miles after i fixed the bent valves.

[R12RT]

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new hardware stuff, new head
I lapped the valves after this photo was taken

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80 euros with core exchange, i didn't tell them it was broken and i dirtied the break spot

I'm glad you went this route! It was either replace it now, or put it all back together - and then replace the head with the potential for additional damage - in very short order. Good on you for being proactive

[BMW IDFR]

thanks for all of your encouragement!

I m stuck at taking the pan off I undid the motor mount, and the power steering pump mount got the four. i basically undid the whole hing is there a magic trick to this?

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damn there are two in the back flat! ass! ok im getting it off

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it oly swivels a bit, its still not loose like from the bell housing. i removed the obvious onessss! wtf it wont come off

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sun went down, tomorrow i go to a place with helicopters... the military i may come back to this this weekend, I may not, we will see when I go there :(
Maybe they will make me spend a week inside?

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i think i have to remove the plate under the bell housing to get to the hidden pan bolts. how stupid to put bolts in a hole!
anyways sun is down

thanks for helping me out through the week guys,
i will wish you a good weekend and ill be back when I can. I will read up on posts, so dont be strangers keep bump this thread for me.

[Binjammin]

I really hope you didn't break your oil pan.

[whiskychaser]

Have you found two long bolts - about 6cms in length? If not, I don't think you have got them all.

If you don't go back on time, I imagine you will spend more than a week inside ;-)

[BMW IDFR]

back for some more!
I am on honorable leave for fixing a military truck (no start / no crank issue) now I'm out and hungry for progress on my e34
stay tuned!

[R12RT]

:redspot Glad you are able to get back to this before you thought! Were you able to acquire all the parts you needed?

[R12RT]

back for some more!
I am on honorable leave for fixing a military truck (no start / no crank issue) now I'm out and hungry for progress on my e34
stay tuned!

How's the honorable leave treating you? Making any progress?

[BMW IDFR]

OIL PAN IS OFF!
you won't believe what I found in there, especially in that sucker tube (the oil feeder with the round bottom)
it was a salad of plastics and metal with oil sludge dressing
I can't upload a photo at the moment, but when i do, it will be funny

I am cleaning now.

the problem i have is it seems the threads that hold one of the chain guide's stud have been damaged and they dont hold the stud correctly.
maybe i have to re-tap
by comparison it looks the whole stud came out and no threaded part is missing

[R12RT]

How's the project? All back together?:eatpop::eatpop:

[BMW IDFR]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=522746&stc=1
sup RT!

made some progress,
i finished polishing the surfaces and notice new chain guides!

between military services I lost the c-clip for the big guide. got a new one.
installed the timing case with new gaskets, some rtv on the edges (oil pan 3-way surface)

I am stuck on re-installing the oil pan, the old gasket did not come off the block so easily.
Now I suspended operations because of rain.

I want her back! i had a dream she was all finished and I was redlining it!

I am going back in tmorrow, I don;t know when ill be out, but soon i think...:cool

the only thing I need to get is a new battery, and a few days...

should i get a cam-timing special tool, or just use a good enough wood block? binjamin?:devillook

[Binjammin]

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=522746&stc=1
sup RT!

made some progress,
i finished polishing the surfaces and notice new chain guides!

between military services I lost the c-clip for the big guide. got a new one.
installed the timing case with new gaskets, some rtv on the edges (oil pan 3-way surface)

I am stuck on re-installing the oil pan, the old gasket did not come off the block so easily.
Now I suspended operations because of rain.

I want her back! i had a dream she was all finished and I was redlining it!

I am going back in tmorrow, I don;t know when ill be out, but soon i think...:cool

the only thing I need to get is a new battery, and a few days...

should i get a cam-timing special tool, or just use a good enough wood block? binjamin?:devillook

You ever heard "do as I say, not as I do"?

I would get the tool. Will you listen to me? :rolleyes

[mboor]

I half thought this car would have hit the scrap yard by now. Glad to see your sticking with this project until its done BMW IDFR. You have this much time, effort and $$$ into it already. Now is not the time to be cutting corners on the tools you need to properly time the engine.

[whiskychaser]

I recommend using the correct tools too but cant wait to see the block of wood

[BMW IDFR]

hi guys!
things are going well, but i have to give attention to the hydraulic lifters.. none of them feel right, all 12 on the intake side are stuck fully compressed,
all 12 of the exhaust side can move freely, but stay down when pushed (no spring action)

is there an easy way to pull them apart? I tried to pry the piston off but it is really hard.

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i ordered a camshaft alignment tool from the ebay... ok bin? :)

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I managed to recondition the tappets, with a hot air gun.

basically i fried the bajeezus out of every single lifter, like magic the piston popped out to the factory spec, and the travel was smooth when pushed with a stick (too hot for fingers) while it was smoking i put it in a tin can filled with oil and pressed the piston several times to suck up oil.

i have 24 fresh like new lifters.

who wants to see a video? lol bin?

[5mall5nail5]

ROFL, I promise you they are not "fresh, like new"

[ross1]

hi guys!
things are going well, but i have to give attention to the hydraulic lifters.. none of them feel right, all 12 on the intake side are stuck fully compressed,
all 12 of the exhaust side can move freely, but stay down when pushed (no spring action)

is there an easy way to pull them apart? I tried to pry the piston off but it is really hard.

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i ordered a camshaft alignment tool from the ebay... ok bin? :)

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I managed to recondition the tappets, with a hot air gun.

basically i fried the bajeezus out of every single lifter, like magic the piston popped out to the factory spec, and the travel was smooth when pushed with a stick (too hot for fingers) while it was smoking i put it in a tin can filled with oil and pressed the piston several times to suck up oil.

i have 24 fresh like new lifters.

who wants to see a video? lol bin?


Uhhh. They may have popped out but remember they were stuck collapsed for a reason, probably crusty oil residue. I don't think that heating them to the smoking point has cured this but who knows.
Good luck, I hope it works for you but I'm not betting on this being cured.

[BMW IDFR]

Uhhh. They may have popped out but remember they were stuck collapsed for a reason, probably crusty oil residue. I don't think that heating them to the smoking point has cured this but who knows.
Good luck, I hope it works for you but I'm not betting on this being cured.

it's cured! trust me!

I have put it all back together, but it won't start...
I replaced the CPS because I thought that it was worn... and it also didn't start with the old sensor anyways

i got fuel, i have to check spark... what do most people forget after head swap/ headgasket change?

[mboor]

how did you end up timing the engine?

[BMW IDFR]

how did you end up timing the engine?
I ebay'd the correct tool. m50 cam timing tool, an over-priced piece of aluminum made from honda guts

[mboor]

ok, so its safe to rule out incorrect engine timing? need to find out about the spark

[R12RT]

IDFR - How's it coming my friend?

[5mall5nail5]

what do most people forget after head swap/ headgasket change?

To replace the lifters

[Tre0Tre34]

it's cured! trust me!

I have put it all back together, but it won't start...
I replaced the CPS because I thought that it was worn... and it also didn't start with the old sensor anyways

i got fuel, i have to check spark... what do most people forget after head swap/ headgasket change?

so if the valves arent opening i imagine there would be quite a bit of fuel in your intake manifold... Lighter test at TB?

Probably a bad idea.

[BMW IDFR]

hot sht! she's running!

I mixed up the fuel return/feed lines (the two next to the throttle body) up/down switched.

now I think my timing is off by a few degrees, I have mediocre high-rpm power, but weak/no power from a dead stop when I want to accelerate.

my car takes off like a granny... i'll tdc it again and check it out!

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To replace the lifters

you are correct sir, my lifters are singing like gangsters brandishing chains

[R12RT]

hot sht! she's running!

I mixed up the fuel return/feed lines (the two next to the throttle body) up/down switched.

now I think my timing is off by a few degrees, I have mediocre high-rpm power, but weak/no power from a dead stop when I want to accelerate.

my car takes off like a granny... i'll tdc it again and check it out!

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you are correct sir, my lifters are singing like gangsters brandishing chains


Awesome! Gettin' the girl running should provide the needed boost of motivation to get her to the dance where she can quietly show off her goods!

[5mall5nail5]

If you've used the timing tools the timing cannot be off.

[Binjammin]

If you've used the timing tools the timing cannot be off.

It can if he didn't set BDC with the pin...

[BMW IDFR]

If you've used the timing tools the timing cannot be off.

I think i was fiddling with the tensioner and teeth, the cams were locked though... but if i tensed the chain and it moved slightly anti-clockwise, then hey. I must have messed it a little to much.

the good news is I am taking the car to the military base. tomorrow morning! (5:00am ugh.)

get ready for some sick photos!

Helicopters and an e34, I may make some wallpapers of the year!
were talking chinook's huey's nh90's and a few light aircraft... I will most certainly do some shoots on the airfield!

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took her for a delicious test drive, AGAIN I am addicted!!
I am exploding the Peugeot 106 next week with dynamite lol

[R12RT]

I think i was fiddling with the tensioner and teeth, the cams were locked though... but if i tensed the chain and it moved slightly anti-clockwise, then hey. I must have messed it a little to much.

the good news is I am taking the car to the military base. tomorrow morning! (5:00am ugh.)

get ready for some sick photos!

Helicopters and an e34, I may make some wallpapers of the year!
were talking chinook's huey's nh90's and a few light aircraft... I will most certainly do some shoots on the airfield!

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took her for a delicious test drive, AGAIN I am addicted!!
I am exploding the Peugeot 106 next week with dynamite lol

Great. Photos will be good, but hard to beat that scene by the water.

Might want to wait on making a Earth Shattering KaaBOOM with the Frenchie till you get the timing/lifter thing sorted?

[BMW IDFR]

Great. Photos will be good, but heard to beat the scene by the water.

Might want to wait on making a Earth Shattering KaaBOOM with the Frenchie till you get the timing/lifter thing sorted?
Lifters have recharged with oil. Nice and silent... Heat gun amigos!

now I am with my iPhone on base and I need to set the timing. Before I go home ! I had very high fuel consumption coming here... Half my tank's gone

she sounds sooooo good now!:redspot

[5mall5nail5]

It can if he didn't set BDC with the pin...

Right, so, like I said, if he used the tools it can't be off.

[R12RT]

Lifters have recharged with oil. Nice and silent... Heat gun amigos!

now I am with my iPhone on base and I need to set the timing. Before I go home ! I had very high fuel consumption coming here... Half my tank's gone

she sounds sooooo good now!:redspot

Amigo - What's the verdict on your project here? And what happened to the pictures?