Seeking the DIY on rear intake manifold cover + gasket replacement W/O intake removal [Archive] - Bimmerforums

e34lovinghater

10-24-2014, 06:41 PM

I am going to try and replace the back plate part of the intake manifold and the gasket, I purchased the genuine BMW part that has gaskets and some oil valve attachment already on the assembly, by just pulling the requisite 3 hoses, pulling back some spring-loaded sheath I've seen in some of these pictures, although they aren't v8 e34 engines so I'm not sure how it will translate, and using a 1/4in speed ratchet to get into the tight spot using a mirror and flashlight, and my girlfriend's extra set of hands. If that fails, I'll take apart the intake and see if I can accomplish that myself. I'm just trying to make the car drive-able for a month until I get the front end done in two weeks, then two weeks later while I get the valve gasket covers and related parts replaced at my mechanic I'll have him put in a new gasket for the back plate so it all mutually fresh and also have him replace the two along the pipe running underneath and whatever else connected that needs it. I just did the serpentine tensioner, belt, and a/c belt, as I thought that was the source of the whine, then was referred to a video off this forum of a shrieking engine that made it clear it is a blown gasket in the rear intake part.

Thank you for the links Excelsisba! I'll be probably trying this Wednesday when the parts/tools arrive. I'll try and enlist a third friend to snap photos of the initial attempt at not removing the intake and trying to be dexterous and get it done with mirrors, four hands, thin tools, and a dose of luck. Could be a fantastic savings in time and labor and cover me until I study enough to feel confident to do the valve gasket covers etc., or am ready to drop $1,000ish at the mechanic to get everything replaced at once professionally. If the lucky fix is a success I'll put up the photos and detail the process, if I fail I'll just be following the intake removal diy already up on here, buy the other gaskets for that pipe at the local BMW dealer, and give it a shot myself, and if that somehow doesn't work out, to the new tow hook and subsequently, the preferred local indie mechanic.

How would you all rate the difficulty level on this project? I can pop a door panel off while breaking 1 clip max, on rare occasion, and get at the regulator within 3-5 minutes. On my former e39 I could swap out a regulator in 15-20 minutes. The e34 I just diagnosed and will fix that after the more pressing issues but it will easy enough, if it was replaced before and they drilled out the rivet and put a bolt in. Will this be markedly more difficult/taxing than pulling door panels and windows out/in of doors?

Binjammin

10-24-2014, 07:31 PM

Getting cheap on your new purchase of a used german car?

Instead of shopping for new parts, I think you should start saving for your next Toyota.

excelsisba

10-24-2014, 08:03 PM

I don't think it's too hard of a job, its just tight in there. Watch YouTube video. That's exactly the job you are doing.

e34lovinghater

10-24-2014, 08:34 PM

Binjammin

10-24-2014, 08:47 PM

I'm not getting cheap, just trying to not spend excessive hundreds if not thousands of dollars on things I will benefit from learning to do on my own. I always purchase OE parts, if available. This site is about DIY and saving so that used BMWs don't cost the same as the lease on new ones, with DIY being key to this. I'd rather have an occasionally functioning BMW than a Toyota, and have for the last 7 years. I always live in the heart of cool cities, work online, and thus don't need a car, so when I drive, I prefer it to be a stick-shift e34. If I had a daily commute I'd use a Honda and keep the e34 on the side like a mistress.

Will update after I give it a shot.

It's like $35 for intake gaskets. You've already priced out the pcv plate... there really isnt a lot more to replace at that point, but if you wanted to spend $500 you could regasket the whole engine, change the oil and tranny fluid and fliters, and still eat a nice steak dinner for two at Sizzler if you DIY.

eddycooper

10-24-2014, 09:54 PM

If you're interested in getting the right tools for this job (assuming you're not going to remove the manifold), consider this set: http://www.amazon.com/Tools-HCT1050-10-Piece-Half-Cut-Driver/dp/B000VUM6BU

The short torx drivers will not be nearly as cramped back there, and they are also not as prone to stripping the bolt heads when the driver is a little bit crooked. I have this set and it is awesome.

corcovado

10-24-2014, 10:17 PM

Damn, I was gonna link that BavAuto video, but beat to it :-) Replacing that thing without taking the entire intake off is a pita IMO. If I was doing it I'd just regasket the entire top-end.

Trasportador

10-24-2014, 10:51 PM

Op. A cursive read of your statements leads me to believe you have the best of intentions, but you doubt your skillset and knowledge. Look at the links and tutorials posted, they are all the truth. Removing the intake manifold is NOT a big job. It looks big in the beginning but it really isn't. I've done it several times, and as recent as this Sunday gone. I pulled out my intake and installed another one in less than 3 hours, and that's WITH changing the knock sensors(which requires either removal of the Water Pump or rear coolant transfer manifold thing)

That said, If i were you, I'd purchase from fcpeuro.com:

4 Knock Sensors
1 WP gasket
2 Sets of WP o ring seals. One for the WP, the other for the transfer plate in the back.
4 intake manifold gaskets
PCV Plate and Throttle body gaskets, one of each.
1 bottle of Johnny Walker black for when the install is complete

The BEST shortcut I can give you, is to remove the entire manifold, WITHOUT removing the fuel rail. Do not attempt to disconnect the fuel lines from the fuel rail, disconnect them from their respective metal lines that are on each side of the car. Trace the fuel hose from the rail, you'll see the disconnect point.

You'll need to remove the Expansion tank in order to get the manifold off. Two mm bolts, disconnect hoses, it comes right off.

This is NOT a tough job. If not changing the Knock sensors, you won't even need to remove the WP, can can be done with the whole thing in less than two hours.

e34lovinghater

10-25-2014, 01:11 AM

Ah I see what you mean Binjammin, not just fixing the back plate and gasket but everything else while I'm in there. I will probably get more of the parts for while I'm in there before I try, the 4 intake gaskets, the water pump o-rings, and I'll go through that list. Looks like about another $150-250 and I'll have all the gaskets, new clamps, etc. that I need. I've been buying from Bavarian Autosport, but if you just need a few parts I was amazed to learn parts from the BMW dealer are about the same on a part-by-part basis if you factor in the cost of UPS shipping, but more than a few parts and it's like 30% less and totally worth it, although UPS costs the same for 4-6 business days as next-day through USPS. Is fcpeuro.com better? So once I get into this I may as well open up the head and do my valve gasket covers, rubber bolts, spark plugs, and the front/back manifold intake gaskets? I am going to do the photo breadcrumb strategy for sure.

It certainly does look intimidating, but I'll snag up the necessary parts and give it a shot, there are endless tutorials online, I'll buy the torque wrench to round off the necessary items, checked out that torx set too on Amazon eddycooper, my father, who can work on anything American but refuses to touch my BMW's, still rides around in a 1972 Chevy 2500 stick-shift truck he somehow kept rust free and legit through four decades of Massachusetts winters, got me a few 1/4in speed wrenches and "tamper proof" torx and sent them down, so I'll see how those are and worst case will buy that set on Amazon, they look great for tight spots and for $30 why not if you think it is best for the strip-prone BMW screws. I will probably wait a bit though beyond Wednesday to do the work then so I can await the additional parts I need, and until I have the cash in-hand for the mechanic, just in case. For the labor on the valve gasket covers alone the estimate was $500, $400-500 for the rear intake manifold and related gaskets, and the parts are sooo cheap (Bavarian Autosport says the Reinz valve cover gaskets, $16.95, are literally the same as the genuine BMW ones, do you think it is worth saving like $30 each and risking it, or just go for BMW? Same on the rubber bolts, BMW are $2 and Reinz are $1) , so I figure I'll drop a few hundred more on parts to round out the list, then set aside $8-900 for potential labor, and have a go at it. If I succeed I'll immediately do the upper/lower control arms, tie-rod ends, sway bar, and alignment, then everything off the list is checked and the car should be solid for a while, and with the many hundreds still left buy a bottle of Noah's Mill Bourbon and pre-game before a steak downtown at Perry's with the girlfriend/2nd set of hands :) I don't know about Johnny Walker Black Label, have been about bourbon and scotch for a few years now but haven't moved into whiskey just yet. It will be very sweet if I can pull off the DIY. I know a dude who works at a Texaco and flips cars on the side, mostly niche cars in the $3,000-6,000 range like old Mercedes 300s, e34 BMWs and Porches, he bought one e34 for $100 that was dead in the water, towed it home, worked some wiring magic and got it running in a day, and for $0 and a little labor sold it for $1,000 immediately on craigslist as a project car without bothering to fix anything else. I was impressed. Maybe I can motivate him over with a bbq and a solid bottle of bourbon to take home to hang out and give advise while I break into the work...

Steve547i

10-25-2014, 01:16 AM

The intake manifold comes off very easily and doing so will provide easy access to the rear plate w/ the pcv valve. Do it once, do it right. If you want to upgrade the manifold while it is off, there is that option as well.

skylinergtr

10-25-2014, 06:08 AM

I don't see what the big deal is. unscrew the holding bolts for the coolant reservoir and set it aside. you should have enough clearance to get at the rear pcv plate. Its fully serviceable without removing the intake manifold. It does get a little tight back there though. I believe the 530s can benefit with having proper 10mm head bolts for the rear plate as 540s have the stubborn torx bolts that always strip.

If it was my car, and from what I have done in the past. I removed the intake, and replaced all the necessary seals.

Binjammin

10-25-2014, 09:29 AM

e34lovinghater

10-27-2014, 03:39 PM

Haha, Binjammin, if you'd like, I'll save you the unedited versions of my posts and PM them over, you know, for full literary effect. I am an academic writer for work and do creative on the side, so I'm used to giving my words ****** so they pay harder, sort of translates over into other writing.

So I'm going to try the job, the tools I think I've assembled all of, except a torque wrench (I think it is 11lbs on the torque at re-installation for the parts I need to remove to get at the valve cover gaskets right?), and order everything parts-wise in the process. Below is a list, I appreciate pinging in to make suggestions, the ones with the "?" I have no idea if I should buy or not, the other ones I am definitely ordering to have for this weekend or early next week.

Alright, so the prospective list:
PCV Back plate and gasket (already ordered)
Water pump o-ring x2, different sizes
Gasket for coolant pipe at end of engine x2
Intake manifold gasket x4
Valve cover gaskets, R and L, and 22 rubber bolts. Do you think Reinz is as good as BMW, or should I drop an extra $60 for BMW valve cover gaskets?
Spark plugs x8 (the rubber boots are $6.95 for Bavarian's house brand or $14.95 for BMW, should I buy new ones or can I just clean them?)
The Bentley Repair Manual
Front manifold gasket? Did not see one on the parts list so I'm not sure if they have one, or if it is the same one as used on the back.
Hose that runs through manifold?
Hose that runs under manifold over valley pan?
Should I get a new valley pan? It’s like just another $20 w the above parts in some kit, but that one needs 15lbs of torque when put back on right? Or was it 15lbs for the manifold and 11lbs for the valley pan?
What kind of cleaner should I use on the surfaces? Some dude in a DIY said "deep purple" and blue shop towels
Any other hoses I need?

Transportador, what are "throttle body gaskets"? Are those the "gasket for coolant pipe at end of engine" or the PCV plate gasket?

I found a Bavarian Autosport issue of "Fast Times" online that has the valve cover gasket swap-out on a v8, full pictures, only 12 steps, so that helped dissuade my fear. The manifold looks like it won't be too hard if I leave the fuel lines on and just disconnect them at the source like suggested here, and the rest is just remembering and labeling it seems. I'll put up a DIY if it goes well, or at least some pictures of the attempt as there don't seem to be many pictures out there I can find specifically on a v8 e34.

Thanks for the ongoing information and motivation!

ross1

10-27-2014, 04:12 PM

The 530s I've worked on had torx screws back there too. Yes, there is tight access with the manifold in situ BUT you run a much bigger risk of jazzing up one of those itty bitty torxs screws unless you can push the bit hard into the screw which is a bunch easier on the bench.
I say remove the intake and do all the other "might as wells" too.
Lots better hard part sources than Bav Auto. I like their floor mats but would never subsidize the glossy catalog with my $$ for hard parts which can be bought nearly anywhere for less.

Binjammin

10-27-2014, 04:31 PM

e34lovinghater

10-27-2014, 05:47 PM

I see, I've used them before for my e39 so just figured I'd continue doing so with the e34, they have a warranty and replaced two regulators w/ free shipping both times. That damned e39 ate 3 regulators on me in 1.5 years. Ha, the floor mats in my 530i the previous owner did actually buy from them, was a part of his sales pitch "The mats even match the model!". I'm originally from Worcester MA, so maybe the proximity and the glossy catalog is what sold me, but having someone to call, email you charts of part assemblies and explain them etc., has been very helpful given my beginner-level knowledge.

Who should I go to for the parts then? Someone mentioned fcpeuro earlier, are they better? Brand loyalty is something I value, to a point, if I'm paying a little more, cool, if I'm getting ripped off, I'll go elsewhere.

I will be removing the intake altogether Ross1 and will get at the valve cover gaskets etc while I'm in there for sure, and the manifold gaskets and probably those hoses under the manifold. Do you all think the valley pan is worth replacing? They don't just sell the gasket so one must buy the new one with the gasket pre-installed. So I'll just leave the PCV back plate on and remove the hoses, then when the manifold is off remove the plate and torx to avoid the risk of stripping. Maybe if we don't strip any torx and it gets done I'll take the GF to an upscale no baby-mama stretch marks like kind of strip-club to celebrate the victory after the project, you know, women love that kind of romantic gesture...

Binjammin

10-27-2014, 06:04 PM

For part assemblies etc, use realoem.com

For ordering, check the FAQ, there's a lot and a search will turn up what's a well covered subject.

DrCharles

10-27-2014, 07:00 PM

Who should I go to for the parts then? Someone mentioned fcpeuro earlier, are they better? Brand loyalty is something I value, to a point, if I'm paying a little more, cool, if I'm getting ripped off, I'll go elsewhere.

I spend a few minutes checking FCP Euro, Bavauto, RM European, and AutohausAZ... and sometimes (not often) Bavauto is actually the cheapest for what I need. I just bought my Lemforder E34 lower control arms there.

The "price match" is the final delivered price including shipping. I went through this with FCP Euro once, as BMW of South Atlanta was actually cheaper - but FCP acted like they should add the dealer's minimum $10.95 shipping to the $5 worth of parts, which of course I would never do. Anyway it's not worth the hassle, I just order from whichever site saves me the most money.

ross1

10-27-2014, 10:06 PM

Bavauto will allegedly price match, just FYI, but for the effort I'll spend elsewhere unless it's an emergency, then we just drive up to Portsmouth, as Bav's only 45 minutes away.

Why would anyone then give them the business when another seller has made a better offer the first time out? This insults one's intelligence.

Binjammin

10-27-2014, 10:26 PM

Why would anyone then give them the business when another seller has made a better offer the first time out? This insults one's intelligence.

:dunno

BMW owners are no smarter than the owners of any other pile of crap, they just have more money sometimes?

ross1

10-28-2014, 10:57 AM

:dunno

BMW owners are no smarter than the owners of any other pile of crap, they just have more money sometimes?
We're talking E34s here.

Binjammin

10-28-2014, 11:41 AM

We're talking E34s here.

Touche.

e34lovinghater

10-28-2014, 06:04 PM

Alright, parts ordered, will have them Mon-Tue, so prob doing the job Thu after I study more and get acclimated to the parts. The total cost was around $420 for everything, including the Bentley Repair Manual, many hundreds less than from mechanic on parts alone and over a grand in labor will be sidestepped. It is going to feel great taking care of this, I've been studying and think I'll be good. Below is the list I went with, this seems to be a fully comprehensive list on replacing all gaskets and such under the hood. The power steering and water pumps I was assured by the mechanic are good when we were trying to assess the source of the howling, so I'll replace those when I do the a/c pulley and tensioner if they need it by that time.

PCV Back Plate, BMW, and Gasket, aftermarket
Bentley Repair Manual
Spark Plug, Bosch, x8
Valve Cover Gaskets, Reinz, L&R
Valve cover rubber seals, JL Germany, x24 (2 extra in case I lose them)
Reinzosil Rubber Gasket Sealant and Dressing
Valley Pan Gasket Kit – Genuine BMW (Valley pan, 4 intake manifold gaskets, 2 engine coolant gaskets, both water pump gaskets)
Valley Pan Cover
Valley Pan cover clips x4
Power steering hose seal ring x3 (just in case)

She'll be on the road again soon! Not that she doesn't drive now, but I am not about howling around in the car, I'd rather roar around on the skateboard until this is done. My gf is excited to take automotive pictures with her DSLR, so the DIY shots might have a little artistic flair to them.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516503&stc=1

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Alright, parts ordered, will have them Mon-Tue, so prob doing the job Thu after I study more and get acclimated to the parts. The total cost was around $420 for everything, including the Bentley Repair Manual, many hundreds less than from mechanic on parts alone and over a grand in labor will be sidestepped. It is going to feel great taking care of this, I've been studying and think I'll be good. Below is the list I went with, this seems to be a fully comprehensive list on replacing all gaskets and such under the hood. The power steering and water pumps I was assured by the mechanic are good when we were trying to assess the source of the howling, so I'll replace those when I do the a/c pulley and tensioner if they need it by that time.

PCV Back Plate, BMW, and Gasket, aftermarket
Bentley Repair Manual
Spark Plug, Bosch, x8
Valve Cover Gaskets, Reinz, L&R
Valve cover rubber seals, JL Germany, x24 (2 extra in case I lose them)
Reinzosil Rubber Gasket Sealant and Dressing
Valley Pan Gasket Kit – Genuine BMW (Valley pan, 4 intake manifold gaskets, 2 engine coolant gaskets, both water pump gaskets)
Valley Pan Cover
Valley Pan cover clips x4
Power steering hose seal ring x3 (just in case)

She'll be on the road again soon! Not that she doesn't drive now, but I am not about howling around in the car, I'd rather roar around on the skateboard until this is done. My gf is excited to take automotive pictures with her DSLR, so the DIY shots might have a little artistic flair to them.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516503&stc=1

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Skylinergtr, where did you get those stylish Euro turn signals? I have purchased a pair from eBay and they are garbage so I never put them in. Flimsy plastic and glued on fake-rubber gaskets. Definitely would like to find a proper pair. Great rims also.

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For the valley pan replacement, I read somewhere on the newer ones that I have to disconnect the fuel pump fuse and take off the gas cap. Is this necessary on an e34? Will I be dumping coolant out through any of the pipes and hoses I pull? Do I have to drain the coolant system? Should I take off the coolant reservoir cap to reduce pressure?

Thanks! Figuring out my strategy for the work.

e34lovinghater

11-05-2014, 02:57 PM

Good aft all. I have the parts and tools, minus two gaskets and the back plate I'm picking up today from the old spot. See photos below. I am curious, for the coolant flush procedure, so I just pull the stop from the radiator and take off the reservoir cap and pour the hose in there? I leave the engine block coolant stop in place? Thanks! Will post my storyboard for the job later or tomorrow, then the process photos after I finish it.

Tools (less a few sockets and larger wrench I need to include)
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516956&stc=1

Parts
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=516957&stc=1

eddycooper

11-05-2014, 03:21 PM

Yes, you can just pull the drain at the bottom of the radiator. Or just pull the lower radiator hose. No need to pull the engine block drain. You might still have some spill out when you get to the valley pan or the coolant piping, but it won't be much.

I like the tokens of support from your dad. Hopefully they're not needed!

e34lovinghater

11-07-2014, 12:20 AM

Cool. So I've got the initial steps down:
1)off w/ the coolant reservoir cap, drain coolant from radiator block, push pail back, from engine block. Put engine block bolt back in, 20 ft-lb on the torque wrench, start pouring water into reservoir until full, figure drain rate and match it w/ pour in and start the car, run until water runs clear, pull fuse pump switch to stall out car and relieve pressure. Undo (-) battery terminal, remove gas cap, and engine coolant drain block.
2)remove coolant reservoir bolts and set to the side, then the plastic engine covers
3)unplug fuel lines that run out of the manifold at their source, remove the lines that run into the back plate and label them
4)probably loosen brackets on water pump so it has some give
5)undo bolts for manifold, the ones above then like 2 below I believe, how do I get the ones on the bottom out? I don't have a lift and don't think I could reach from below...
?)is this when I remove the spark plug housings, label the wires, then the spark plugs?
6)remove manifold, and cover over the 8 open chambers I pulled the spark plug housings and the electronic squares over them w blue rags or tape
7)using the give with the water pump loosened, remove those 2 pipes
8)remove the valley pan cover
9)remove the valley pan, clean well underneath
10)pull off old valve cover gaskets, clean well
11)install new valve cover gaskets, using the sealant at specified half moon points
12)install new valley pan, then cover, will update with torque values
13)change out the o-rings in the water pump for those 2 pipes then reconnect the pipes and change out the steel washers at the other end that I think go there, bought 3 of them at the suggestion of the salesperson...
14)where do these 22 new rubber bolts go?
15)turn to the manifold, pull and install the new 4 manifold gaskets, remove the back plate and replace the gasket and back-plate, replace the front gasket, and pull/replace the 2 engine gaskets I bought (no idea where they go just yet...)
16)make sure the valve cover gasket is cool, re-seat the manifold ensuring all seals are in proper direction and line up, place down manifold. Reconnect wires into new PCV back-plate, put in bolts and do the diagonal adjustment (I'll update with the torque values once I look them up in the Bentley manual before working) reconnect the fuel lines to their sources that are on the manifold
17)put back on engine covers, tighten, (will update w/ torque values), return coolant reservoir and tighten, tighten water pump.
18)return engine block coolant drain, will buy a new one if I can forgot to order it, return radiator drain, refill w 50/50 coolant water mix, cap coolant reservoir. Return fuel pump fuse, gas cap, and plug battery back in. Replace all interior lighting fuses to see if that is why none of them work when the doors open up like they should.
19)open coolant system bleeder screw on top heading up to the engine, turn heat on and open vents, start car and run until coolant starts bubbling out of the bleeder screw, tighten screw, run a bit longer to make sure all is good, listen for the SHRIEKING. If it has stopped, and it runs, the PCV back-cover and gasket repair = success, and gasket preventative maintenance = success.

That I think is it, I'll take pictures along the way, and list the tools I use as I have yet to figure that all out, it's mostly 20mm sockets I'll use beyond the t30 for the pcv back plate yes? I got a dental pick to pull the o-rings, a torque wrench to ensure I don't overdo anything, speed wrenches to fit in tight spots... If I missed anything please do let me know. I need to replace the screw for the main serpentine tensioner pulley but can't figure out how to get the fan off, should have bought the "fan clutch removal tool and wrench set"... the serpentine screw looks like it was spot-welded so there is a tiny bit of wonkiness when the pulley is spinning, doesn't seem to affect functionality but I bought the $8 bolt, just need to figure out how to get it on without that special tool... Any suggestions?

e34lovinghater

11-07-2014, 05:16 PM

I am on this right now and am not getting how I remove the electronic housing to then get off the manifold. I pulled 8 steel clips and 4 paper clip like clips, removed housings and screws...

excelsisba

11-07-2014, 06:08 PM

Go take a look at this: http://www.e38.org/intake/bmw740_intake.html

e34lovinghater

11-07-2014, 08:29 PM

I have got most of the intake off. Apparently I could have pulled it off instead of fighting w the 8 clips of 2 different types on either side of electronics housings on either side. I got the hoses out, the three connectors, but I cannot figure out the asc wire or whatever it is. I removed it from the slot on manifold and can turn that rotor wheel on the front intake w it but can't figure how to get it off. The hoses on back that run into the fuel pipe, u-shaped robbed pipe, look ruined so I prob need to buy them, and new clamps. All else seems like just more bolts removed...

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517065&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517066&stc=1This is the part I am talking about from 2 different angles, not quite sure hot I am to get it disconnected. It had a loop into the engine center cover also. I tried gripping that circle bit w needle-nosed plyers and failed to move it around it, do I undo that large bolt, looks like a 19mm maybe? I stopped for the day, I'll figure out how to get it fully apart in the morning then the gaskets replacement and re-assembly should be relatively easy.

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517065&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517066&stc=1This is the part I am talking about from 2 different angles, not quite sure hot I am to get it disconnected. It had a loop into the engine center cover also. I tried gripping that circle bit w needle-nosed plyers and failed to move it around it, do I undo that large bolt, looks like a 19mm maybe? I stopped for the day, I'll figure out how to get it fully apart in the morning then the gaskets replacement and re-assembly should be relatively easy.

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The 7series one was very helpful excelsisba, that provided me with a bunch of info on the valley pan I was missing. For this cable, a friend just told me I can just leave the cable on the steel elbow and undo the torx that attach the steel elbow to the intake, then I can set the elbow and cable aside and remove the manifold, after I decide to either cut these fuel lines or figure out how to remove the stripped clips...

e34lovinghater

11-08-2014, 07:25 PM

Wow this is frustrating. Bavarian Auto salesman told me to buy the fan clutch tools. I was already way over $500 in parts and supplies, figured I could get it handled without another $50 on that tool. I was wrong. Now I have to wait until monday to buy the tool from the dealer, or overnight it from BavaAutosport if the dealer does not have it. Next time I may just save up and pay the mechanic, I thought a full day and I'd have my car back, two full days deep and the manifold isn't even off yet, lost a nut that is dealer-specific so have to wait until monday no matter what, went to auto parts store 4 times since I started and spent another $200 there on random necessities and tools... If I complete it I save $1300 but given the number of hours I probably should have just worked during them and paid a mechanic, we'll see how many more days it takes...

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Trying the sledgehammer trick right now, then giving up for the day if I fail and waiting for BMW store on Monday.

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517108&stc=1Is there one of these rectangular gaskets on the outside of the passenger block? I don't have one and it looks like one was never there...

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517108&stc=1Is there one of these rectangular gaskets on the outside of the passenger block? I don't have one and it looks like one was never there...

Binjammin

11-08-2014, 08:53 PM

You may be missing that gasket. It just keeps water from building up in the spark plug wells, you can leave it off for a while without worrying. Not sure why you're taking the fan off. I'm not sure what you mean by the sledgehammer trick, but if you have a wrench on there that you're hitting with the sledge, you do know that the fan is reverse threaded, right?

excelsisba

11-08-2014, 09:15 PM

You don't have to take the fan clutch off. Are you planning to do the valley pan job too? Some say to replace it while your in there, probably not a bad idea but you don't have to unless it's leaking. Can't remember where I saw it but there are two ways to remove the pipes that run over the length of the valley pan. One is by the front which involves re moving the fan clutch and so on, but the other is from the back side by popping the pipe of of the back section, just have to pick up the right gasket to get it back together. Should be much easier that way.

Binjammin

11-08-2014, 09:25 PM

So I've been in contact with OP via PM and phone for a couple days now. He mentioned something and I think what his plan is, is to remove the water pump so he can change the o-rings for the coolant pipes. Michael, that's the WAY overly complex way to go about it. When you talked about taking hoses off, I thought you were talking about the intake plumbing for the manifold, I'm sorry I wasn't clear on that. The coolant manifold on the back of the engine is attached by 3 bolts per side and comes off a LOT easier than the water pump. Once that's off you can get the pipes out very easily and save yourself some heartache.

excelsisba

11-08-2014, 09:31 PM

e34lovinghater

11-08-2014, 10:08 PM

Ah, the idea was the rock the water pump off the front then pull those pipes, replacing o-rings in the water pump and the other side of the pipes. I do need to replace the two gaskets running into the engine on the back of the manifold anyways, that large bowed metal piece that I think excelsiba is talking about, the accumulator/rear coolant manifold, I already have those two turquoise-like gaskets. I am doing the valley pan, got the genuine BMW valley pan, cover, and the 4 bolts (BavAutoSport had a kit where it was like $20 for the valley pan on top of the price of all the gaskets I needed), as like you said, I'll be in there and want to change the water pump o-rings anyways so those two pipes and the back accumulator are coming out. So I'll take that back pipe off then, below is the DIY I've been using to help with the Bentley manual on a v8 740, the Bentley manual is juuust barely worth the $60, no pictures and many many steps totally omitted, this magnum guy has some great photos, and he went in from the back too leaving on the fan and water pump. I need to get these two wires underneath too apparently, I was just going to shift the boxes around as I did the right and left but he got them totally out of the way. "So in order for this to work crawl under the car and unhook 2 plugs, 1 goes to the oil level sensor attached to the lower oil pan and the other I’m not sure what to but you can’t miss the 2 of them when you are laying under the car. Both cables run from under the car, up to the front and are taut."

So I have a few questions that I would love answered:

-I need to get the coolant reservoir, mounted center in front of the windshield, out of the way to lift out the manifold. The bolts look like ninja stars. What kind of bit do I need for that? It does not look like a torx, a hex, or a phillips head, like a rounded and hooked triangle sort of, or an oval with points on top and bottom... Once this is off I can pull the manifold, clean it, fresh gasket it up, do the valley pan removal, clean, replace, manifold back, freshly cleaned injectors back w fuel rail (hoses look alright but will replace if I can get a ride to the autoparts store tomorrow, external from engine though so not hard to replace later)

I lost one of the 11mm bolts holding on the intake manifold. Can I use any bolt from Autozone, or do I have to wait for BMW to open Monday? Will try removing the engine splash guards in the morning though, they ate a t30 bit and a BMW trunk-kit wrench so far, maybe it's in there.

That outer gasket is missing then, I looked up photos and found a few with it on, has been gone on mine for quite some time as it aged evenly, but I can replace that just by opening engine cover, so if I can finish tomorrow without it, will do and order w/ next parts shipment, or will buy it at the dealer Monday w that 11mm bolt if it is still opened up then.

I'll find the photo and post it, but there was a connector coming off the passenger side ignition wiring housing that didn't go anywhere, I was anal about labeling and this one had nowhere to meet... Is there supposed to be an auxiliary or dead clip outside the three that go into that main housing off the steel elbow on the manifold?

Thanks for all the info! And hugely appreciated Senor Bimmerfest! I wasted 1.5 hours on that asc cable and ended last night annoyed then was able to take off the cursed cable in less than 10 seconds this morning with your advice and that link, simply unscrew plastic male-female connector and remove wire through slit on steel elbow, give it some slack and slide it around the throttle as you turn it, and push the steel stopper cylinder that looks like a bicycle brake-wire to the right and off the throttle knob. I put tape where the plastic piece was originally as I want the same throttle values when I plug it back in (that is logical right?) I was trying to remove that whole rotating unit w/ cable attached off the steel elbow... Below is the link and some rambling questions about what I'll be working on next. I'm expecting tomorrow to be the manifold removal once I get the coolant reservoir off, then will take my time cleaning it out in the engine and doing the valley pan, then will close up the hood, take in the manifold and finish that up at night, get whatever further parts from the dealer Monday morning, and do reassembly. I forgot to label just 3 bolts of the endless ones today but kind of remember where they went...

http://www.magnum1.com/magnum/BMW-740/740_Pages/Maintenance-Pages/Valley-Pan-740.php --- Great link for the valley pan replacement, he didn't bother pulling the fan or water pump, just did the accumulator, so you both are right, I wasted a great deal of time trying to figure out how to get the fan off, called multiple people, borrowed tools from a neighbor, pissed off the girlfriend trying to have her hold a wrench over the pulley bolts then plyers on the pulley, cursed myself for not ordering the special tool, called the BMW parts store 5 minutes after they closed... Alright I will leave that on and order the fan tool when I order the front-end kit this week (any feedback on the $290 full front-end kit from Bavarian AutoSport? Upper/lower control arms, tie rod ends, sway bar and link, w "performance" bushings. BMW parts would be so expensive...), the final checkpoint on the list I paid the indie BMW mechanic to make ($75 for a "fully vetted" diagnostic), need the special tool as I need to swap out the bolt on the serpentine tensioner as it was apparently slightly warped, already have it in the box of parts, and I'll change the a/c tensioner while I'm at it, new belts and serpentine tensioner just went in, pulleys mechanic said were good. (BMW pulleys, or is Delcro alright? BMw was $85.95, Delcro or whatever about $55...). Is changing out the front end possible for us w/o a lift and pressurized hydraulic tools? I know the tie-rod ends require a pickle-fork I can probably get mailed down from my father and he has the one like a vice too as I know these are tenacious bastards on the e34 front-end, the mechanic said if I bought the parts he'd swap them all out for $300 and do an alignment, I'd need a jack, jack stands, pickle-fork, and sockets or irons to remove all that, then have to pay for an alignment, as #1 on the checklist was new tires so don't want to ruin them, they were put on right before the PCV back-plate burst and this all began, it actually burst on the way out of the Sears parking lot after they did tires, serpentine tensioner, and a/c and serpentine belts, barfing smoke out the exhaust. This 4-day weekend project should make it well.

excelsisba

11-08-2014, 10:35 PM

I'll find the photo and post it, but there was a connector coming off the passenger side ignition wiring housing that didn't go anywhere, I was anal about labeling and this one had nowhere to meet... Is there supposed to be an auxiliary or dead clip outside the three that go into that main housing off the steel elbow on the manifold?

I have this too, I was worried at first but when I inquired about it, I was told it's a mystery connector. :-)

I laughed out loud reading the part about you pissing your girlfriend off trying to help you. Made me think about a time me and the wife were moving a couch and smashed her hand on the railing, obviously my fault...

Anyhow, good on you for sticking through it. You'll feel much better after you get it all back together. I was gonna finished ordering some parts myself but now my slave cylinder is leaking so looks like I'm gonna do that next instead...

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I haven't looked at the front end stuff at bav auto but this is what I'm planning on picking up in the spring at FCP.

https://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-control-arm-kit-front-e34-trw-e34fcakitl

e34lovinghater

11-09-2014, 12:41 AM

Nice! I was very worried I somehow disconnected one and it was lost forever. Asking people to help usually does result in their being upset at you :) at least I didn't mash her hand w the wrench...

Just about to put on a stupid flick and clean the injectors...

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Excelsisba, the slave cylinder is a part of the clutch right? Is yours a stick or auto?

Alright I am done w/ the car for the night, the injectors and manifold post screws have been cleaned w/ penetrating oil (brake cleaner? it has ceflon) and the, the rubber gaskets rubbed down w/ silicone lube I sprayed onto a rag, the two gaskets per injector and the one rubber bolt per manifold post screws.

Before/After:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517121&stc=1 http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517122&stc=1

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Excelsisba, the slave cylinder is a part of the clutch right? Is yours a stick or auto?

Alright I am done w/ the car for the night, the injectors and manifold post screws have been cleaned w/ penetrating oil (brake cleaner? it has ceflon) and the, the rubber gaskets rubbed down w/ silicone lube I sprayed onto a rag, the two gaskets per injector and the one rubber bolt per manifold post screws.

Before/After:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517121&stc=1 http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517122&stc=1

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That Lemroder kit is expensive, but there has to be a reason the BavAuto one is so much cheaper, their has upper/lower controls w/ bushings, tie rod ends, and the sway bar, not those two other parts... But still many many hundreds less, I wonder if they'd just wear quicker? If I buy the tools and jack/jack stands and DIY I would rather save $500 now and have to do it a few months sooner later, as who cares about later, we could be gone then...

excelsisba

11-09-2014, 07:46 AM

Yeah mine has the 6 speed manual. Slave cylinder sits sorta on top of the transmission, driver's side. You don't have to remove the transmission or anything, it's accessible.

DrCharles

11-09-2014, 10:12 AM

That Lemroder kit is expensive, but there has to be a reason the BavAuto one is so much cheaper, their has upper/lower controls w/ bushings, tie rod ends, and the sway bar, not those two other parts... But still many many hundreds less, I wonder if they'd just wear quicker? If I buy the tools and jack/jack stands and DIY I would rather save $500 now and have to do it a few months sooner later, as who cares about later, we could be gone then...

Yes, there's a reason... you get what you pay for. Everything I've read here and on other forums says don't buy the cheap no-brand (or URO :eek:) parts. They will wear out in 10k miles and you will be doing the entire job again. The investment in Lemforder is well worth it. Or at least buy Meyle.

e34lovinghater

11-09-2014, 05:13 PM

Cool, I hope I don't need to do anything to the clutch on mine for a while, how often do you replace yours excelsisba?

Can anyone tell me the kind of bit I need to remove/move the coolant reservoir? Going to handle that now then remove the manifold and take it in and then do the valley pan before I call it a day and clean and re-gasket the manifold indoors at night.

The Bentley Repair manual says absolutely nothing about a valley pan replacement, would it be using a different word? I need to know the torque values on the valley pan...

Thanks!

Oh yeah, I'll look into Meyle, but 10,000 miles for me would probably we well worth it, if I DIY, it would protect my tires and last for quite a while, I work online so put probably 3,000-5,000 miles on the car a year or less, not into the road-tripping at the moment but in the past an e34 w/ tie-rod ends that violently shook upon breaking got me 4,000 miles from San Diego to Portland OR to Worcester MA w/ only the repair of the Jesus clip on the gear shifter column insert in the clutch housing, some mechanic in Boulder, CO fixed it for like $70 and I was on my way back east, felt like the reverse of "The Grapes of Wrath" only I was Mr. Wilson and could't work on my own vehicle at all back then. Now, still not really but we'll see if I successfully get all this back together, I'll likely be putting up posts of pictures of a few bolts or connectors I can't find the point of origin on, forgot to label 3 bolts yesterday, I know they are off the block, but not sure where... Has anyone ever had that clutch clip hop off? I would like to buy one and learn how to replace it as it is has happened to me 3 times, not yet on this car though. I used to tap on the clutch lever to music or whatever when stopped, ended up knocking that clip off my first e34, a forest green 535 stick-shift, once, then twice on the e34 cherry red 525i manual (I felt so uncool without wood paneling, didn't realize it for a while but wondered why I felt less luxurious, then looked into how much the panels cost and I forgot about it).

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How do I find these part-charts off of ecstuning.com? People always post the parts pictures that show numbers etc. in DIYs but I can't figure out where the charts are. Still cannot get the coolant reservoir off and moved to get the manifold off. I have no idea what kind of bit I need...

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Haha I sprayed it w penetrating oil and realized it is a bolt...

excelsisba

11-09-2014, 05:31 PM

Haha I sprayed it w penetrating oil and realized it is a bolt...

Glad you got it figured out. Do you know about realoem?
I think that's what you're asking? That's where we get all the part numbers for and then search fcp, pelican parts, bav auto and the like.

Haven't had to do a clutch yet in mine but I'm sure I will sooner or later.

e34lovinghater

11-09-2014, 07:55 PM

Today I made some progress and will probably, maybe, finish up tomorrow. Today: manifold off, accumulator off (4 bolts on passenger side, 2 on driver's side, I spent forever thinking there were 3 on each side until I did the brail method and realized there was a hidden one on the passenger side), took out the three pipes, and will be cleaning the pipes and manifold tonight and re-gasketing the manifold, valley pan replacement in the morning, BMW parts store in the early afternoon for that outer engine block gasket and some o-rings I think I may have not gotten enough of, and I am missing 1 splash pan bolt, and 1 engine cover bolt, need to replace those, got the 10mm bolts to use on manifold PCV cover already... I slightly bent the pipe that I undid the clip on that ran under the manifold and scratched it. it is steel and still straight, so not too worried about it, but should I replace it? When I put up the DIY on this I'll call it the "DIY for the Uninformed: Sidestepping Beginner's Missteps" or something like that. Perhaps I'll write a "Zen of BMW DIY" book and use it to skyrocket to a Million Little Fibers level fame like Towellie from South Park and whoever they were spoofing in the real world...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517168&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517169&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517170&stc=1 Now to mix a drink and check the new Walking Dead while I get to the manifold...

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Today I made some progress and will probably, maybe, finish up tomorrow. Today: manifold off, accumulator off (4 bolts on passenger side, 2 on driver's side, I spent forever thinking there were 3 on each side until I did the brail method and realized there was a hidden one on the passenger side), took out the three pipes, and will be cleaning the pipes and manifold tonight and re-gasketing the manifold, valley pan replacement in the morning, BMW parts store in the early afternoon for that outer engine block gasket and some o-rings I think I may have not gotten enough of, and I am missing 1 splash pan bolt, and 1 engine cover bolt, need to replace those, got the 10mm bolts to use on manifold PCV cover already... I slightly bent the pipe that I undid the clip on that ran under the manifold and scratched it. it is steel and still straight, so not too worried about it, but should I replace it? When I put up the DIY on this I'll call it the "DIY for the Uninformed: Sidestepping Beginner's Missteps" or something like that. Perhaps I'll write a "Zen of BMW DIY" book and use it to skyrocket to a Million Little Fibers level fame like Towellie from South Park and whoever they were spoofing in the real world...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517168&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517169&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517170&stc=1 Now to mix a drink and check the new Walking Dead while I get to the manifold...

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You can see the ding I made on the pipe, third one in from the right, on the third picture. Think it matters enough to buy yet more parts?

Binjammin

11-09-2014, 08:24 PM

That dinged pipe just passes the oil vapor from the crankcase to the PCV. A ding won't impact performance, just leave it be. Sorry I haven't been able to text you back, my battery died the second I got your text tonight and I can't find my charger.

e34lovinghater

11-09-2014, 09:08 PM

Binjammin

11-09-2014, 09:19 PM

Awesome, I thought it was a coolant pipe. No worries Binjammin, I ended up figuring it out. It is going to be so easy to put everything back together now that I know what's what for the most part. Hopefully the valvecover gaskets and valley pan don't take forever. Getting to cleaning the manifold now, do I need to use Purple Power or can I just use this "degreasing spray"? I'll see how the t30s go on the PCV pipe, I did not buy a stripper yet in hopes that I don't need to...

Question: Can I use this stuff in lieu of the 3m 45 adhesive to hold on the gaskets while I am securing them? The O'Reilly's Autoparts and Autozone did not have the 3m 45 stuff, but O'Reilly's said this is the same thing or better...
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517174&stc=1

I don't know what that junk is, but after googling it it is described as " is a dark brown, slow-drying, hard setting liquid design to coat, seal and repair most gaskets."

I wouldn't use it. The super45 is like a fast drying aerosol version of rubber cement. I'd sooner ask you to get that than whatever this stuff is, all you need is a light, thin, fast drying glue, that you apply a little to the gasket and the cover, and as soon as they start tacking up you stick them together. It keeps the gasket from falling out of the cover when you're installing it. You don't need to repair any gaskets with that witchcraft in a bottle.

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Awesome, I thought it was a coolant pipe. No worries Binjammin, I ended up figuring it out. It is going to be so easy to put everything back together now that I know what's what for the most part. Hopefully the valvecover gaskets and valley pan don't take forever. Getting to cleaning the manifold now, do I need to use Purple Power or can I just use this "degreasing spray"? I'll see how the t30s go on the PCV pipe, I did not buy a stripper yet in hopes that I don't need to...

Question: Can I use this stuff in lieu of the 3m 45 adhesive to hold on the gaskets while I am securing them? The O'Reilly's Autoparts and Autozone did not have the 3m 45 stuff, but O'Reilly's said this is the same thing or better...
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517174&stc=1

I don't know what that junk is, but after googling it it is described as " is a dark brown, slow-drying, hard setting liquid design to coat, seal and repair most gaskets."

I wouldn't use it. The super45 is like a fast drying aerosol version of rubber cement. I'd sooner ask you to get that than whatever this stuff is, all you need is a light, thin, fast drying glue, that you apply a little to the gasket and the cover, and as soon as they start tacking up you stick them together. It keeps the gasket from falling out of the cover when you're installing it. You don't need to repair any gaskets with that witchcraft in a bottle.

e34lovinghater

11-09-2014, 10:41 PM

Yeah that's what I figured, I was just packing up the carriage and couldn't find the super45 and the guy suggested that, was my 3rd autoparts store before I even started and I just believed the wrong dude. My father strongly advised against it also, said that he has a bottle of that questionable stuff sitting around from when he worked at gas stations as a 16yr old in 1960s Worcester, MA, but told me to ask you all just in case BMWs were different. It does look like a quack medicine sort of thing, like that Blue Devil head gasket repair garbage. I need to not listen to the guys at O'Reilly's, they recommended Blue Devil sludge to fix a blown head on an e39, but I knew better on that. Now I need to snag a ride to the autoparts store tomorrow on way to BMW dealership... at least I don't need that stuff until I'm re-attaching the manifold, still have the valve cover gaskets to do and the valley pan, and that outer gasket on the engine cover, probably re-assemble it all tuesday. For the valve cover gaskets, I bought the recommended gasket cement from BavAuto, Renzoil (same brand as gaskets) to apply at the half-moon joining points, should I put that gasket seal spray onto the rubber parts of the gasket elsewhere?

Just cleaned the manifold and pipes and sprayed the torx with oil penetrating spray to loosen them, now to see if they strip or I need to buy a cutting wheel tomorrow...

Binjammin

11-09-2014, 10:49 PM

Just put that stuff on the half moons and where the timing cover, head, and valve covers come together.

e34lovinghater

11-10-2014, 05:14 AM

Connections for the pipes cleaned, cleaning out the middle of the pipes next while awaiting a friend to see if he can break the 2 torx on the back intake manifold cover I cannot get with my pumped up and out forearms, that accumulator was not easy to take off... On the front manifold there are apparently meant to be 5 bolts, mine only had 3/5, the autoparts store I remembered to ask at had 8 of the 10mm replacement bolts, so I need 4 more and I can get them all swapped out, will do tomorrow morning, any particular washers? I can get the washers at the dealership if they are unique... He couldn't get 1, the other had loosened from the penetrating spray. I'll soak the last 1/13 in penetrating oil then sleep, reset the muscles, then in the morning before the valley pan job and replacement of accumulator will tighten the two around the 1 torx that won't budge then blast it with penetrating oil again, it sounded like it cracked when my friend tried but couldn't budge it after... I hope I don't need to get that cutting tool, I already wish I had bought the fan clutch tool.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517176&stc=1

LUVMY540I

11-10-2014, 01:56 PM

Thought I'd jump in here on those manifold cover bolts. I removed and replaced the rear CCV plate with the manifold left in place. However, doing so probably knocked a couple years off the life from the shear stresses alone. In the end, to get the bottom bolt out I used a soldering iron and melted the plate with it to get some plastic out of the way in order to grab that one last bolt nearest the accumulator to trans lines. F that lil bstrd! For what it's worth, I used a dremel and cut off disc to cut the heads off the more accessible ones in the front. To replace them, while it wasn't the cheapest route, I wen to ACE Hardware and got stainless steel allen head bolts along with s.s. washers. Never have to worry about them lil fuggers again.

e34lovinghater

11-10-2014, 08:27 PM

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517222&stc=1About to try and get the last torx off now, then will be replacing with these, I had to go to 3 different auto parts stores for the bolts, sold out at Advanced, Autozone only had 2 packs, O'Reilly's only had 2. The washers I had to go back to advanced for... This last one I hope breaks, I will be a bit pissy if I have to wait another day for another ride to the autoparts store. The BMW dealer had no idea what I meant on the outer block gasket that goes between the block and plastic cover, and the guy said it probably is for style not function if they don't have it, so at least I saved a trip to the BMW dealership today, but I need engine mounting bolt I lost and 1 it didn't have so need to go there tomorrow. I bought a work-light so I'll hopefully get the valley pan replacement done today, maybe the rear accumulator back on and will do the valve cover gaskets and re-assembly tomorrow with the girlfriend helping with all those endless bolts. This is an extensive project...

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517222&stc=1About to try and get the last torx off now, then will be replacing with these, I had to go to 3 different auto parts stores for the bolts, sold out at Advanced, Autozone only had 2 packs, O'Reilly's only had 2. The washers I had to go back to advanced for... This last one I hope breaks, I will be a bit pissy if I have to wait another day for another ride to the autoparts store. The BMW dealer had no idea what I meant on the outer block gasket that goes between the block and plastic cover, and the guy said it probably is for style not function if they don't have it, so at least I saved a trip to the BMW dealership today, but I need engine mounting bolt I lost and 1 it didn't have so need to go there tomorrow. I bought a work-light so I'll hopefully get the valley pan replacement done today, maybe the rear accumulator back on and will do the valve cover gaskets and re-assembly tomorrow with the girlfriend helping with all those endless bolts. This is an extensive project...

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3 of the 7 bolts are stripped, I bought the Craftsman Bolt Out Plus damaged bolt/nut remover set, totally does not work. I am just going to plug in the work light and do the valley pan replacement and get the accumulator back on with the new gaskets for tonight, maybe do the valve cover gaskets if the block comes off easily enough. Should I scrape all the dead and dried up paint off the blocks?

So please explain to me what I need to drill off these last 3 bolts that are infuriating me. I know it is at Harbor Freight or something and costs $30, I have a steel file but that was not working very well at all. I've got a blue fingernail and blood from these cursed torx 30s and it has ruined my entire day's worth of work. My best hint of advice that I will start the DIY off with is: buy the special tools. Buy the fan clutch removal tool. Buy a tool to destroy the torx with, don't even bother unscrewing them, just destroy them and laugh at all the time and heartache you'll be saving yourself.

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I may just take the manifold in to the mechanic and see if he'll take it off for me, I already bought the replacement hex heads, I really don't want to buy another $40-50 in tools just to remove 3 stripped torx that I'll never be using again. This is starting to turn into an absolutely horrible experience. I've had to buy over $300 in tools and accessories so far, took 3 days off work, spend like $600 in parts, very soon it will no longer be worth the money it is saving me as I am not earning because of the ungodly amount of time this is demanding. I think my opening advice for the DIY will be "Don't. Save up, and don't. But if you must..."

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A dremel. My friends and girlfriend are starting to hate me, I have been pulling rides left and right for this and have become quite a stressed out bastard.

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The o-rings in the accumulator, the BavAuto guy said theywere the same as the ones for the water pump, but the ones I took out are rectangular rings, the ones they sent me are circular rings, as in around them, does this matter?

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Alright! I have a Dremel from my friendly neighbor, but not the bit. Anyone know what kind of bit I need for it? Thanks! To the valley pan replacement now, then reattaching accumulator w/new gaskets and those two pipes with a new o-ring on each side, in water pump and in accumulator. Will prob do valve cover gaskets in the morning, get the dremel bit, finish the manifold, and reassemble it all. Hopefully some of ya'll will be online tomorrow as I'll probably have some questions on how to reassemble things correctly. Thanks for the ongoing support! Help is key in such things, one neighbor donates the dremel and some 3/8 torx socket set like the one recommended on here from Amazon by a poster long ago, and the other gave me a 100ft extension cord to get the work light out there, so at least $100 in savings there on necessary tools/acceSsories...

corcovado

11-10-2014, 09:28 PM

Welcome to most of my DIY jobs, every time I finish though I feel great and have confidence that the work was done right. I just tried to take out my fan clutch, wouldn't budge, had to take it out attached to the water pump, water pump came out with a pipe attached, so now I have to do the same thing you're doing so I can seat the coolant pipes correctly. Some of the other sh*t I've had to deal with on this car so far doesn't even come to close to your frustration level. I've spent a week before trying to get a single nut loose. If you take it to a "mechanic" god knows what they will do. "Mechanics" and I use the term loosely are the reason my car has half the bolts and plastic covers missing in places.

LUVMY540I

11-10-2014, 10:24 PM

If you have the manifold off it should be no trouble to either cut the heads off of the offending bolts using a cut off disc on the dremel. If locating said tools is a pain, go to a hobby store and get a $10 soldering iron. Use that to destructively melt enough material from the plate to grab the head outright with vise grips. I know both methods work as I've had to be inventive in both cases.

Binjammin

11-10-2014, 10:27 PM

I've got to be honest man, I'm laughing a little bit at your frustration, but only because it's stuff like this that will prepare you better for next time. You're very long worded, but the next time something breaks just follow advice. I don't know why you need all these rides and stuff to get bolts, and where you're shopping for bolts, but even Ace hardware has a small selection of metric bolts. Hell, damn near every shop I've ever worked in has a rack of metric bolts that they'd be willing to sell to you at cost. I told you that gasket was a non-issue. All it does is serve to keep moisture out of the spark plug valleys. Being in Austin Tx I can't imagine it's very rainy there, but even if it is, you can absolutely wait on the part and order it for later.

Anyway, the o-rings that are square but the new ones are round... I'm guessing you mean like in profile? Like if you cut a section of it out and looked at it from the cut? It's because the old o-rings have been compressed for so long they've become the same shape as the groove they sit in, which is square. The new o-rings will do the same thing in time. Don't even sweat it.

If you brought that to me in a shop to cut the bolts off, and install new metric bolts, just as a new walk-in customer? I'd probably charge you $10 for the effort, max, plus whatever the hardware cost, probably around .50 a piece. You'd be out the door for under $20.

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Welcome to most of my DIY jobs, every time I finish though I feel great and have confidence that the work was done right. I just tried to take out my fan clutch, wouldn't budge, had to take it out attached to the water pump, water pump came out with a pipe attached, so now I have to do the same thing you're doing so I can seat the coolant pipes correctly. Some of the other sh*t I've had to deal with on this car so far doesn't even come to close to your frustration level. I've spent a week before trying to get a single nut loose. If you take it to a "mechanic" god knows what they will do. "Mechanics" and I use the term loosely are the reason my car has half the bolts and plastic covers missing in places.

So, mechanics screwed up your car because you couldn't undo the fan? Some people in this world are mechanics and they don't screw up cars.

e34lovinghater

11-11-2014, 04:06 AM

Corcovado, you are in for 5-7 hours of proficiently removing bolts, or 11-13 of inefficiently stumbling around like me on getting to those two pipes, but, you could try and line them up off the water pump angle/width, splash them with silicone spray, and pray they find their way into the right spot, then clink over the water pump and they will tighten in as you put that back into place, avoid removing the whole manifold etc.

I know Binjammin, it has been a wordy epic journey. I thought I had to buy them at the auto stores? Either way the closest hardware store to me is too far, like 7 miles of LA-thick traffic, I've been skateboarding to Sears for tools etc 2ish mile away but the autoparts places are closer than hardware, maybe 3 or 4mi, Austin is an anti-chain town so there are like 3 or 4 hardware stores in-city then 1 home depot and 1 lowes that are way out in the suburbs.

Today I have achieved outstanding things though at least. It is starting to feel worth it. Accumulator-to-engine gaskets = check. new water pump o-rings and accumulator coolant pipe o-rings = check, new spark plugs = check, new valley pan and valley pan cover = check, valve cover gaskets on L and R = check, plus, an awesome neighbor from Wisconsin wandered over yesterday and lent some knowledge, he has a 2004 525i and apparently knows cars very well, today he appeared after I finished the valley pan and was battling the accumulator (Binjammin, thank you on the adhesive idea on the engine gaskets for the accumulator, I ended up getting 3M 77 Super general adhesive, noone has 45 anywhere, and even with that one of them almost fell off on me as I was getting it into place, but jeebus, without it they would have been eaten by the splash guards or worse...) and helped me seat that properly, probably impossible to do alone so get a second set of hands or dose out on patience serum, then we did the valve cover gaskets and spark plugs, I mentioned the intake manifold torx to see if he had a bit for the dremel my other neighbor let me borrow, and instead he showed up with a vice-grip, had the bit for reference though, and the vice grip worked instantly, so the torx are removed and I'm going to re-gasket the already cleaned manifold inside tonight, then install the manifold and finish tomorrow. If it starts, I will be a happy gent. If it does not I may have an aneurysm. My girlfriend took the day off work too so if it starts and drives, bomb sushi or steak is in order, alongside bourbon, probably Bullit Rye, maybe Woodford... Below the pictures is my killer recipe for the classic bourbon cocktail the "old fashioned", a very legit adult beverage.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517285&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517286&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517287&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517288&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517289&stc=1

The Old Fashioned:
-1 16oz mason jar
-2 sugar cubes, place them at the bottom carelessly, so, like, drop them
-2 dashes of angostura bitters, 1 dash into each sugar cube. Aim. Fire.
-1.5oz, the larger side of the jigger, of bourbon, Bullit Rye is my preference, onto the cubes
-Muddle with a wooden spoon or actual muddler, if you've got it in stock like
-1 whiskey cube into cup, or a handful of ice if you must, but if you don't have a whiskey cube ice-tray, buy some tennis balls and give them to your or your neighbor's dog, wash the ball container, pour in H20, make ice. Score around the ice every 4in or so, chip off cubes as needed.
-Cut a .25in slice of orange from the center of an orange, push out the middle socket, twist the juices onto the ice cube.
-Pull out the center of the orange and discard, or eat. Give the rind a pinch around to release the oils, and circle it around the ice cube.
-Open a jar of your preferred marashino cherries, with stem, and drop one on top, give it a splash of juice if you're into that sort of thing.
-Let it sit for a few moments, decide upon what to make or purchase for dinner
-Swirl until sugar is fully dissolved.
Rock and Roll old fashioned style, so play some scratchy jazz on the gramophone and tear up a rug with your special gal, or whatever it is the children are doing these days.

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Corcovado, you are in for 5-7 hours of proficiently removing bolts, or 11-13 of inefficiently stumbling around like me on getting to those two pipes, but, you could try and line them up off the water pump angle/width, splash them with silicone spray, and pray they find their way into the right spot, then clink over the water pump and they will tighten in as you put that back into place, avoid removing the whole manifold etc.

I know Binjammin, it has been a wordy epic journey. I thought I had to buy them at the auto stores? Either way the closest hardware store to me is too far, like 7 miles of LA-thick traffic, I've been skateboarding to Sears for tools etc 2ish mile away but the autoparts places are closer than hardware, maybe 3 or 4mi, Austin is an anti-chain town so there are like 3 or 4 hardware stores in-city then 1 home depot and 1 lowes that are way out in the suburbs.

Today I have achieved outstanding things though at least. It is starting to feel worth it. Accumulator-to-engine gaskets = check. new water pump o-rings and accumulator coolant pipe o-rings = check, new spark plugs = check, new valley pan and valley pan cover = check, valve cover gaskets on L and R = check, plus, an awesome neighbor from Wisconsin wandered over yesterday and lent some knowledge, he has a 2004 525i and apparently knows cars very well, today he appeared after I finished the valley pan and was battling the accumulator (Binjammin, thank you on the adhesive idea on the engine gaskets for the accumulator, I ended up getting 3M 77 Super general adhesive, noone has 45 anywhere, and even with that one of them almost fell off on me as I was getting it into place, but jeebus, without it they would have been eaten by the splash guards or worse...) and helped me seat that properly, probably impossible to do alone so get a second set of hands or dose out on patience serum, then we did the valve cover gaskets and spark plugs, I mentioned the intake manifold torx to see if he had a bit for the dremel my other neighbor let me borrow, and instead he showed up with a vice-grip, had the bit for reference though, and the vice grip worked instantly, so the torx are removed and I'm going to re-gasket the already cleaned manifold inside tonight, then install the manifold and finish tomorrow. If it starts, I will be a happy gent. If it does not I may have an aneurysm. My girlfriend took the day off work too so if it starts and drives, bomb sushi or steak is in order, alongside bourbon, probably Bullit Rye, maybe Woodford... Below the pictures is my killer recipe for the classic bourbon cocktail the "old fashioned", a very legit adult beverage.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517285&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517286&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517287&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517288&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517289&stc=1

The Old Fashioned:
-1 16oz mason jar
-2 sugar cubes, place them at the bottom carelessly, so, like, drop them
-2 dashes of angostura bitters, 1 dash into each sugar cube. Aim. Fire.
-1.5oz, the larger side of the jigger, of bourbon, Bullit Rye is my preference, onto the cubes
-Muddle with a wooden spoon or actual muddler, if you've got it in stock like
-1 whiskey cube into cup, or a handful of ice if you must, but if you don't have a whiskey cube ice-tray, buy some tennis balls and give them to your or your neighbor's dog, wash the ball container, pour in H20, make ice. Score around the ice every 4in or so, chip off cubes as needed.
-Cut a .25in slice of orange from the center of an orange, push out the middle socket, twist the juices onto the ice cube.
-Pull out the center of the orange and discard, or eat. Give the rind a pinch around to release the oils, and circle it around the ice cube.
-Open a jar of your preferred marashino cherries, with stem, and drop one on top, give it a splash of juice if you're into that sort of thing.
-Let it sit for a few moments, decide upon what to make or purchase for dinner
-Swirl until sugar is fully dissolved.
Rock and Roll old fashioned style, so play some scratchy jazz on the gramophone and tear up a rug with your special gal, or whatever it is the children are doing these days.

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Oh yeah, and what you said Binjammin was totally right on the o-rings, I had called my Father too just to be sure before I endeavored to put on the accumulator, they were just crazy old and had malformed into disc-looking rings. The water pump is relatively new as the previous owner said it was, the o-rings were still round and fresh like, but I replaced them anyways as I had them and might as well. I coated the rings in silicone spray before wiggling them in then rubbed a bit on the outer lip and those pipes slid in easily enough, simpler than when I took them off, I had of course thoroughly cleaned the ends and stuffed blue rags through to clean the inside using a wire coat hangar (another Father-inspired idea, I was going to tape chopsticks together and go that route, only had 2 non-plastic hangars in the entire closet though, it being the future). Let's see so I don't forget, remember to take photos of the mounts on the driver's side engine block, I had to go back and re-add the one for the 2 cables, and I'm totally lost on where I took off this one for 1 tube or cable that has a washer... know where that goes? It turns out of the last 2 bolts I am missing, the others I needed for the manifold torx replacements but every store in town only has 1 or 2 packs of 4 in-stock so I had to hit up 3 stores to get the 13 bolts needed between the front and rear manifold covers, may not matter, one of them is for the plastic engine cover, but the other I think was 1/4 of manifold to engine block, so I think I need that one from the dealer right? Or just a heat rated bolt? It is one of the 3in ones I think, maybe 4in, there were 4 of them...

e34lovinghater

11-11-2014, 07:21 AM

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517290&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517291&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517292&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517293&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517294&stc=1Manifold=done. The final photo = the tools I'll be putting it all back together with in the mid-aft. Now time to sleep. That 500watt halogen worklight for 20bucks at autozone was well worth it for the late-night outside work, I cannot seem to wake up with enough daylight lately, silly farmer's time...

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517290&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517291&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517292&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517293&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517294&stc=1Manifold=done. The final photo = the tools I'll be putting it all back together with in the mid-aft. Now time to sleep. That 500watt halogen worklight for 20bucks at autozone was well worth it for the late-night outside work, I cannot seem to wake up with enough daylight lately, silly farmer's time...

corcovado

11-11-2014, 12:23 PM

That 500watt halogen worklight for 20bucks at autozone was well worth it for the late-night outside work, I cannot seem to wake up with enough daylight lately, silly farmer's time...

Tell me about it, if I wake up at 8 am, I maybe have 7-8 hours to work before the sun sets, counting in lunch and etc. it definitely blows.

e34lovinghater

11-11-2014, 11:43 PM

I'm missing a few things on the assembly, I have a third gray 3 pronged wire coming off the housing of the passenger side spark plug e-housing, does it go onto the ICV valve I'm hoping? All others, excepting that ghost one, and one that looks like a light-bulb socket, are covered. I installed the manifold, screwed it down, realized I hadn't removed the tape over the manifold. Removed it, removed the tape, screwed it down, installed the e-housings and spark plugs, screwed down, realized I forgot the manifold pipe, unscrewed the manifold, added the pipe, screwed it down, spark plugs in, now I'm dotting my i's and kicking the t's in the face as I try and finish up then will try and start it before bothering with the outer engine parts.

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Got it done, totally re-assembled, it started, then started chugging, spewing smoke from under the hood, passenger side, and leaking oil beneath the car. I am done for the day and totally numb but tomorrow I may light the car on fire.

e34lovinghater

11-12-2014, 02:52 PM

Seems like it is dripping beneath the passenger side gaskets on the bottom of the manifold or where the injectors go in... Too sore and tired to bother with it today, will probably set aside another full day and go back at it. Next time I'll remove both engine splash guards, need a bunch of tools that dropped down there anyways, and will have to re-drain coolant but will use engine plug this time. I did not do the torque values for the car as I was re-assembling it, I tried to remember how hard they were to break off then copied that. Next time I'll have to follow those. Any thoughts or suggestions here? I'm very upset, 6 days of my life went into that.

Trasportador

11-12-2014, 03:26 PM

If anything bro, I admire your stick to it nature. You'll be an m60 pro in no time.

excelsisba

11-12-2014, 03:41 PM

Yeah just keep at it, you'll get it. Even though you have struggled through it, the knowledge gained is invaluable!

I'm too lazy to go back and read... Where did you put rtv. Should go on the half moons and corners and I think that's it.

e34lovinghater

11-12-2014, 06:08 PM

Thanks for the motivational words Transportador. I do certainly know the M60 engine inside and out now, but I am starting to feel jaded and to hate the car so it may be useless knowledge ultimately. I was looking around at Lexus stick-shift cars maybe step over into Japanese luxury, but their engines look like those of a go-cart and the cars weigh probably 1/3 what the e34 does, so if I do get this done maybe I'll love the car again as it is badass and the engine is impressive.

Excelsisba, RTV is gasket sealant? I put in on the half moons heavily, like a fat bead that I spread, and my neighbor who has done BMWs and Audis in the past said a small amount over the surface of the valve cover gasket is helpful too so I did that. It looks like it is probably leaking from one of the 4 gaskets that are orange and go under the manifold connected to the engine cylinders, I took pictures of it, above. I'm hoping I just unseated one of those when I was putting the manifold back in for the 3rd time, I cannot believe I forgot the tape then the pipe, which I think maybe needs to be replaced as it is not seating right on either end now as that ding/slight bend. The 3rd time I was nearly raging so maybe missed the small detail of the gasket seating. But it felt perfect, rested flat, and I sealed/seated them in to the manifold using general adhesive as suggested by Binjammin, which worked perfectly for the accumulator gaskets. I just looked under it, the drain pan had blown into the street, and very little extra oil came out overnight. So, maybe the oil that dripped was all the oil that had accumulated around the spark plug areas from the bad valve cover gaskets in there before? I cleaned in there as best I could but there was still some oil. I'll try and start it tomorrow and drive it back onto the stands and start over if it lets me. One thing I immediately noticed while it was started last night though was that it had much more power, in the past it needed like a half-pedal down to hit 3,000rpm, now it is ripping at 5-6,000 with a quarter push down.

Do you think not using the torque wrench is what made the smoke and oil issue?

Thanks for all the ongoing info, the fact that I got it to start after pulling it totally apart and back together again was at least a satisfying feeling, but the almost immediate shudder then under-the-hood smoke was one of those empty stomach moments like when you are just dropping into the downward vertical on a roller coaster.

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I have questions on the torque values if you all might happen to know, you would think the Bentley manual would have them centralized in a chart given how important it may be, but it does not, in fact the only torque values I could find are for the coolant drain plug and the engine coolant drain plug.

So, torque values for?:
Valley Pan
Manifold to engine
spark plug housing units to engine
front and rear manifold, the PCV plate, and the steel elbow throttle in front
-Do the torques on the cover matter? I can't imagine they do...
Any others you think matter?

Do you think jerking the injectors insert into the spark plug housings could have caused any leaking? They came off hard, but the o-rings were all good and I siliconed them...

corcovado

11-12-2014, 07:18 PM

I very much doubt incorrect torque values led to the problem you are having. The point of calculating torque is to 1) not undertighten, so that the bolts come loose when driving, and 2) not overtighten, so that the thread or bolt seizes, rounds, strips, rubber gasket crushes, etc.

If you did not torque something tight enough, it would only become apparent after some driving. I don't have enough experience to say if over-tightening something caused the issues you are having, but I again I doubt it.

Many of the things you mentioned do not have specific torque values, as BMW usually gives torque values for specific sizes of bolts (for example, 13mm bolts should be torqued to 7lb/ft, etc.), which can be found by searching "BMW torque values" on Google, for example I got this thread - http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=453548
If you really want specific torque values, most of these things have been asked before and you need only search, for example I just searched "e34 valley pan torque" on Google and this is the first result, which should answer some of your questions - http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1769515-Valley-pan-job-torque-specs. Note that is for an E39, but the E34 shares a lot of components with the E32, E38, and E39, especially for models which have the same M60/M62 engine (M62s are slightly different, but very similar externally). I just started fixing up my 540i about 3 months ago and I got all of this from searching and reading, which you have to do a lot of if you want to be a DIY mechanic.

If you plan to take care of the car after this job, I would highly suggest investing in a torque wrench. Amazon has decent Tekton 3/8in ones for $40. I eventually bought myself a 1/4in one as well for the small bolts, as they differ in min-max torque.

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 05:59 AM

Thanks for the info Corcovado. So it is not likely just a torque issue, but something different and potentially more significant. I will be taking the car apart tomorrow again and am hoping that the issue is just a mis-seated gasket under the manifold connected to the engine. Maybe a poorly seated fuel injector. Maybe I start it tomorrow and it spits some smoke out then levels off and becomes awesome, or morphs into a transformer mechanic and fixes itself like a boss. Ideally :) I'll search out and use the torque values online as you suggested, and I already have a torque wrench that was shipped with the box of tools my Father provided. If it is not a mis-seated gasket though, I will likely be at a loss and need to pay the mechanic for another assessment...

Binjammin

11-13-2014, 07:37 AM

Wait.... you applied rtv to the entire valve cover gasket?

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 01:29 PM

Yes, A bead at the half-moons and a tiny amount over the surface that touches down onto the engine, was that somehow wrong? The friend said it would must make me have to scrape harder next time I change it, but will provide a better seal in-between? The valve cover gaskets are not leaking, I'm about to go drive it up onto the ramps now, remove the engine splash guards to retrieve tools, then try and locate the source of the dripping before I open the engine again. I'm thinking I un-seated the passenger side rear manifold/engine gasket...

eddycooper

11-13-2014, 01:46 PM

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 01:57 PM

I thought that little hose from the PCV plate went from the left side of the PCV plate to the right side of the PCV plate? There a 2 little holes there and I could not remember where I had pulled it from but into itself is the only place it reached...

It is not leaking from the level of the valve cover gasket, but rather I think from beneath the manifold with those 4 orange under-gaskets. Going to start it now and get it on the ramps, I'l take a pic of the PCV hose to confirm if I put it in the right spot.

The gaskets on the right side of the manifold I did not double-check the 3rd time I had to install it, but it seated right and felt flat, but maybe that is where I Made a mistake...

Binjammin

11-13-2014, 02:05 PM

Putting a bit of RTV on the gasket will not cause it to leak like crazy - you're fine there.

Are all the gaskets actually installed and fully seated?

If it is leaking badly from a valve cover gasket, but the gasket is indeed there and seated, then I would suspect something in the crank case ventilation system. Is something plugged between the cyclone and the PCV plate on the back of the manifold? Basically you're looking for manifold vacuum to suck air through the PCV plate from that cyclone thingy. If anything along the way is plugged you can get a high pressure in the engine which will relieve pressure at the weakest point (usually a valve cover gasket).

He's describing an oil leak from the valve cover gasket, and I would 100% bank on the added rtv being the cause. That gasket is supposed to be applied without sealant.

For god's sake, you're telling him to check his PCV for an improperly applied valve cover gasket that's leaking?

OP, pull your valve covers again.

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 02:16 PM

Thanks Eddy Cooper!!! I was confused the other day and misunderstood Binjammin on the phone and thought he said that the hose plugs into the unit. As it turns out, I did not plug in that hose correctly, nor did I insert the larger hose onto that nub, as it was not there when I began the job so did not know, that may have been the problem all along, a hose missing off the PCV plate... Will go check now, here is the video that showed me how/where I went wrong thanks for the data Eddy Cooper!!! Excellent. I was about to drain the coolant system and take apart the manifold again...

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Binjammin! I have the engine opened and there are no leaks on the block where the valve cover gaskets are... The coat on the non-corners was negligible, but once I get these hoses plugged in right, if it is still wonky I will remove the blocks and scrub off the sealer from the gaskets, and could anyways if you think I should to avoid any issues.

Binjammin

11-13-2014, 02:36 PM

So, then where is it leaking from? :confused

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 02:59 PM

Haha, I think you are both correct. None of the 3 hoses in the back of my PCV plate are connected right, so the pressure through the engine is probably way too high, so EddyCooper may have hit it right there, and it is in fact leaking from under the passenger side engine block, so you are definitely correct on the valve cover gasket Binjammin. So, 1st step, get the PCV plate connected correctly, then if it runs well enough, redo the valve cover gaskets after anyways just to be safe and remove all putty excepting the halfmoons.

I have 3 hoses, 2 small but I am missing 1 of the 2, and a larger one meant to connect to the rear PCV plate that I cannot find the male piece for. It looks like there is a threaded hole, prob 10mm, on top of the accumulator that is empty, a hose guides that are also empty, it could be that this part is missing, and that would explain the howling sound of air being sucked into that little nipple on the PCV plate, so the whole re-gasketing may have been not the problem, but worth doing and learning anyways.

So, little hose? little hose 2? and large hose, where does it come from? On the video by Otto, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZITZoLTgGE , it has a triangular looking object that the tube comes off from. I cannot find this in my car. He removes it at 6:21, and I cannot find the place to plug in the two smaller hoses, I'm thinking this hole in the back of the driver's side block, and the hole in the back of the fuel line on the passenger side? Know what kind of tubes I need to buy, and if I am missing a part off the accumulator or if it is just meant to be plugged by a 10mm bolt?

I need to find out if I am missing something connected to the manifold, looking for a chart now on that OEM site, I will need that thicker hose and to learn what it connects into and if I am missing that part, and I def need 2 new of these skinny hoses, the one I have is wicked old and cracked. The girlfriend is here w/ her VW Bug, so I can get to the dealership as we had planned on 5-7 hours removing the manifold again and redoing all gaskets...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517411&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517412&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517413&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517414&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517415&stc=1
The first one is the big female port I need to find the male hose for, second one shows the skinny hose and a clamp missing a wire I do not have that I think holds the male for picture 1, picture 3 in the middle kind of far away you can see the threaded hole on top of the accumulator I think something must go into, picture 4 is another attempt at shooting the hole on top of the accumulator, and picture 5 is where I think the skinny driver's side hose may insert into,

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Haha, I think you are both correct. None of the 3 hoses in the back of my PCV plate are connected right, so the pressure through the engine is probably way too high, so EddyCooper may have hit it right there, and it is in fact leaking from under the passenger side engine block, so you are definitely correct on the valve cover gasket Binjammin. So, 1st step, get the PCV plate connected correctly, then if it runs well enough, redo the valve cover gaskets after anyways just to be safe and remove all putty excepting the halfmoons.

I have 3 hoses, 2 small but I am missing 1 of the 2, and a larger one meant to connect to the rear PCV plate that I cannot find the male piece for. It looks like there is a threaded hole, prob 10mm, on top of the accumulator that is empty, a hose guides that are also empty, it could be that this part is missing, and that would explain the howling sound of air being sucked into that little nipple on the PCV plate, so the whole re-gasketing may have been not the problem, but worth doing and learning anyways.

So, little hose? little hose 2? and large hose, where does it come from? On the video by Otto, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qZITZoLTgGE , it has a triangular looking object that the tube comes off from. I cannot find this in my car. He removes it at 6:21, and I cannot find the place to plug in the two smaller hoses, I'm thinking this hole in the back of the driver's side block, and the hole in the back of the fuel line on the passenger side? Know what kind of tubes I need to buy, and if I am missing a part off the accumulator or if it is just meant to be plugged by a 10mm bolt?

I need to find out if I am missing something connected to the manifold, looking for a chart now on that OEM site, I will need that thicker hose and to learn what it connects into and if I am missing that part, and I def need 2 new of these skinny hoses, the one I have is wicked old and cracked. The girlfriend is here w/ her VW Bug, so I can get to the dealership as we had planned on 5-7 hours removing the manifold again and redoing all gaskets...

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517411&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517412&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517413&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517414&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517415&stc=1
The first one is the big female port I need to find the male hose for, second one shows the skinny hose and a clamp missing a wire I do not have that I think holds the male for picture 1, picture 3 in the middle kind of far away you can see the threaded hole on top of the accumulator I think something must go into, picture 4 is another attempt at shooting the hole on top of the accumulator, and picture 5 is where I think the skinny driver's side hose may insert into,

Binjammin

11-13-2014, 03:02 PM

I don't think either of you understand how the PCV plate works. When there are excessive crankcase pressures, they vent through the pcv plate. There will be no excessive pressures with the hose disconnected.

Regardless, there should be a hose that goes to your fuel pressure regulator. That large barbed fitting should go to your brake booster.

eddycooper

11-13-2014, 03:34 PM

You've got some ports that need to be plugged on the PCV plate

- The fuel pressure regulator hose should come from one of the two small ports on the PCV plate, the nearest one to the regulator.
- The big barbed connection on the PCV plate should be capped (part #11611747085, or a generic one). There might have been one on your old PCV plate that you can steal.
- The small barbed connection just above the big barb should also be capped (part #11611437694, or generic).

I found this pic from another thread. Note the caps on the driver's side and the hose for the fuel pressure regulator on the passenger's side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v91/aradaiel/e34/IMAG0255.jpg

This diagram might help too (note the caps - parts 7 and 8):
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/d/g/3.png

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 03:46 PM

I do not understand how the PCV plate works, thanks for educating me :) So the leak is definitely the valve cover gasket then? That is not so bad, just removing spark plugs, pulling the cylinders, removing the excess sealant, and reseating? This time I will use the torque wrench.

So one small hose goes to the fuel pressure regulator, is that the steel end on the butt of the fuel line in photo 5? I can't find where the other small hose goes, the video just pulls them from the PCV plate and doesn't show me where they run... Watching it again now just to be sure. I can't find the "brake booster" or the "fuel pressure regulator"...

Binjammin

11-13-2014, 03:46 PM

Holy crap, I'm a dope. I was thinking the barbed fitting went to the brake booster, that's on an e38. :derp

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 04:26 PM

Hmm, so nothing connects to the male port of the PCV plate at all? In that video I linked above the guy had a large hose attached to it, but I don't have the unit the hose came off of. I do have some empty hose guide though that looks like it should be there... The picture you put up, that is an M60 engine? Maybe the video is an M62 and that hose is used differently? Would that small hose to the fuel pressure regulator not being connected be to blame for the excess pressure that caused the valve cover gasket to leak? I'll reconnect that wire, if the plugs are not in there will it affect performance? I threw out the old one unfortunately, I thought it was trash and didn't think it had anything I needed... Once I figure this out I'll take the spark plugs back out, move the electrical boxes, and remove the blocks and remove all sealer from non-halfmoon areas and torque it down properly, and hopefully she purrs.

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the smaller cap is 5mm, do you know how many mm the larger one is? I can get to an autoparts store in 5 minutes, the dealership will take 30, so if it is just a plug maybe they have it at Autozone? Would genuine BMW matter?

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Weak the guy in the video skips over the hose replacement in part 2. It does look like for my engine I plug two holes, and put the hose on the fuel rail on the other side. I do think I recall one plug, and the female port with the barbed edge didn't have anything connected to it when I took it apart, hence my confusion now.

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I need a 10mm and an 11mm bolt anyways, will just go to the dealership after I call and confirm they have the two plugs.

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The genuine BMW ones I hope are worth it, the Autozone has a variety pack that might work for $3, but I'm going to the dealership, where it is like $15 for the small plug, $20 for the large plug, and $19 for the hose... But I want it done right but damn, little rubber thingies are going to cost as much as the PCV plate...

eddycooper

11-13-2014, 05:19 PM

The large barb is listed as 10.5 mm, and the small one 5 mm. No need for the expensive BMW versions...Autozone is fine.

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 06:49 PM

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517437&stc=1Just got back, they had the two plugs and the new smaller hose, but it turns out I do not have the hose that connects into the lower arm of the PCV back-plate, I can't find it under the hood, they didn't have any in stock, ordered me one from Germany, 4 weeks free shipping $15, but in the interim I am going to try one of these generic hoses to see if that is my problem at least. Think it would work to drive a bit until I get the BMW hose?

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517437&stc=1Just got back, they had the two plugs and the new smaller hose, but it turns out I do not have the hose that connects into the lower arm of the PCV back-plate, I can't find it under the hood, they didn't have any in stock, ordered me one from Germany, 4 weeks free shipping $15, but in the interim I am going to try one of these generic hoses to see if that is my problem at least. Think it would work to drive a bit until I get the BMW hose?

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#9 on this chart, my car did not have one plugged in when I started the work, so I did not know it was missing as I apparently did not educate myself effectively enough, it would be great if the Bentley manual had parts charts like these, the dealer gave me this picture, maybe that was the source of the engine howl. I really hope this relieves the pressure and stops the oil from leaking. Would you all have any idea on the thickness of this hose? I bought the proper length, 250mm=9.84 inches, and you see I purchased the 3 thicker vacuum hoses they carried at Autozone at 11in each, so I am hoping one of them will suffice for a few weeks until the dealer gets in the BMW one. If it stops the leaking oil do you think the valve cover gaskets will be alright for a bit? It is freezing down here now, well not quite, like mid-30s, but I'd rather give it some time to warm up.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517441&stc=1

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#9 on this chart, my car did not have one plugged in when I started the work, so I did not know it was missing as I apparently did not educate myself effectively enough, it would be great if the Bentley manual had parts charts like these, the dealer gave me this picture, maybe that was the source of the engine howl. I really hope this relieves the pressure and stops the oil from leaking. Would you all have any idea on the thickness of this hose? I bought the proper length, 250mm=9.84 inches, and you see I purchased the 3 thicker vacuum hoses they carried at Autozone at 11in each, so I am hoping one of them will suffice for a few weeks until the dealer gets in the BMW one. If it stops the leaking oil do you think the valve cover gaskets will be alright for a bit? It is freezing down here now, well not quite, like mid-30s, but I'd rather give it some time to warm up.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517441&stc=1

eddycooper

11-13-2014, 10:01 PM

I don't think that big hose belongs there. The connections to the PCV plate should be the following:
- The lowest big elbow connection connects to the cyclone thingy, passing underneath the manifold.
- The little barb on the passenger side is where your new little curvy hose goes, and it connects to the fuel pressure regulator.
- The upper large barb on the driver's side is capped with the big cap you bought.
- The upper small barb on the driver's side is capped with the little cap you bought.

There should be no other connections on the PCV plate. I have no idea what that diagram is that they showed you - I do not recognize that stuff.

Put your three new parts on and give it a go. If nothing else, it should run a lot more smoothly.

e34lovinghater

11-13-2014, 10:32 PM

This is the one I am talking about, isn't this #9 on that chart? I am going out to try the two plugs and that hose now, what is the "cyclone thingy"? I'm guessing I can trace the hose going into the steel cylinder attached to the front manifold steel elbow and that the other hose coming off that is this #9?
The lowest big elbow connection connects to the cyclone thingy, passing underneath the manifold.

eddycooper

11-13-2014, 11:59 PM

Sorry for the wording. Here is what I mean by the "cyclone thingy". It's really called an oil separator. It's that hard pipe that's connected to the lower elbow on the PCV plate. Anyway, here is a diagram:

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/c/o/3.png

As for that hose #9, I don't know what that is or where it goes. I have a 540i and it doesn't have one. Hopefully someone more familiar with 530is can comment.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 01:43 AM

I put in the small hose connecting PCV to the fuel rail/sensor nub, put in the big plug, the small plug, and I don't think a hose goes into that elbow on the PCV plate? I have a large one going into the accumulator that I think is #9 on that chart, but that elbow with the blue ring on it at the bottom plugs into that metal pipe on one side, and there isn't a hole where I thought #9 should go, so is that a dummie hole or am I not seeing something? Looks like just a useless elbow... Nothing is connected to it on the picture that EddyCooper put a few posts up to show me for reference. I think I am all good there?

I just started it up after installing those plugs and the small hose, the engine sounds actually much better, when I rev it it sounds smooth now, I'm getting way more power.

I need to hold the gas to keep it running though, it is just dying on idle. I could not get that throttle cable-wire connected to the front elbow to go through its harness hole, that white guide with 2 slots on it for cable/wires, one of them worked, I may need to re-route it under a few hoses to give it more slack to clack into the guide, but it is properly inserted and holds pressure like it is meant to and I adjusted it to the way it was. What/where is the idle control valve, I know I did something with it, could that just be plugged in wrong? The car is though still leaking a bit of gas out the right side of the engine onto the exhaust manifold, it seems to be gas unless oil gets way less viscous when it leaks out. My friend thinks it is could be an unseated manifold gasket, I think Binjammin is on point with the valve cover gaskets? Going to open it back up tomorrow, seat manifold gaskets like a boss, clean/scrape the valve cover gaskets and reseat them like Binjammin said to, and will torque everything from the valley pan up to specifications using that PDF chart and the 3 values EddyCooper linked me to. The idle though I need to figure out. The engine sounds so good! It's power is crazy too, used to take a floor to hit like 6000 now I get there at 1/3 the way down on the pedal! At least it starts and the result is solid, and once it stays going, I'll feel like a boss out of "Grapes of Wrath" without the whole almost dying on the highway escaping the Dust Bowl starvation thing. I'll be able to drive it onto the ramps tomorrow, pull the fuel pump fuse, stall it, drain the coolant out again from the radiator first, this time hitting the engine block plug too to keep it neater instead of spilling it out the back of the accumulator like the "magnum" link suggested, and I need fallen nuts and tools in the engine splash guard anyways. Will update, but the PCV hose and plugs solved the smoke coming out the exhaust and it is running much smoother, just not staying running without gas, and still leaking out the right side of the engine block... maybe it is oil, it has some viscosity and stickiness, gas is like water...

(Quick side-question. My interior lights have never worked when I open the doors, and I was going to replace the fuses. The only ones the Autozone here has say 15a, 12.5a, and 7.5a like the ones I need, but nothing else, the BMW ones also say 32v, I forgot to buy them at the dealership, will these Mexican-made various "a" fuses work for me or do I need to buy ones that specifically state 32v? Or is 32v a given?)

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Excellent Eddy Cooper! That is properly plugged in, we have the same engine according to these charts, I have that Nikasil (or Alusil) replacement that came out in the early 00s I think or late 90s when they recalled the European v8 they put in that was getting corroded by our cheap American watered down with ethanol gasoline, so while the car has 196k the engine supposedly has around 90, so these gasket replacement were right on time.

So that pipe is on point, the other hose is good, the plugs are in. The idle is still weak, and gas is still coming out the side. I'll reseat the manifold, its gaskets, the spark plugs, peel the sealant away from the valve cover gaskets and put some on the half-moons and reseat, torque everything to value, and upload tomorrow what happens. The idle though.

What should I know about the idle and how to control the idle? Binjammin for example was totally right, I do not understand how these engines work, I only know what part charts have told me on what plugs into what. It's like I'm building a Lego set of the Death Star, but I never saw Episode I so I have no idea where I'm going. I'm learning how it all works as I move along, so please, do not feel condescending if you explain to me basic shiz, I may not know it and so am happy to learn, I studied quite hard for this but the Bentley manual is a poor study guide, and many DIYs assume I know how things work, but in general, I do not.

Thanks! This will be a great DIY when I put it up, accessible to anyone with almost no pre-existing mechanical knowledge.

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 12:19 PM

The useless elbow is exactly that, it gets capped with the larger of the two rubber caps you bought. Same as mine, so no worries there. If you ever wanted to smoke your intake, or put a vacuum to it in search of leaks, that's your port!

Where exactly is the fluid in question dripping down?
Outside of head: Can't be fuel as all sources of fuel from the engine are in the valley. Whether it be intake manifold gasket or not sealed injector. Unless you have a fuel source/return hose that is leaky. You say right side, may be most helpful to state passenger or driver, if only to avoid confusion. If it's near exhaust manifolds and not the valve covers leaking, I'd say you ought to be sure it isn't a head gasket leak.

And in case you wanted to know which block you have, the numbers are cast in just ahead of the starter on the passenger side. You may need to remove the aluminum splash shields near the starter to see them. Reference your #'s at : BMW4Life.com (http://www.bmw4life.com/nikasil.htm)

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 12:27 PM

It is dripping down on the passenger side, looks like from the valve cover gaskets, although it could be the valley pan, I replaced that too and perhaps did not torque it correctly? Heading out there now to go through all that, but the idle, is there something to that I should pay attention to? It runs smooth and strong, when running, but stalls out on idle if I don't give it gas...

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 12:37 PM

I wonder about the Idle Control Vavle. It's the cylindrical thing attached sideways to the top hole on the throttle plate. I'd take that piece off, and make sure the rotating mass inside swings freely. Basically, spray carb cleaner into it, rotate your wrist with it in your hand, back and forth. It should rotate back and forth internally with no sticky resistance. When that is done, make sure you've connected the correct plug to it. I may be mistaken, but I thought there was another loose plug in that spot, I believe for AFM if I remember correctly. Though I may have read it as a mystery plug as well.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 12:50 PM

Alright, that could make some sense and was what I was thinking, it was a pain getting that thing back on, the o-ring felt waaay tighter than when I took it off, will make sure it is hooked up correctly and functioning. It has just that one plug in the back of it, then the insert point into the manifold right? I did plug the correct sensor into it though, I'm 99% sure, as I labelled them all with masking tape and numbers then connected the numbers back together, and the mystery plug was the only one still unlabelled and not installed, unless the masking tape jumped to the other wire like a sneaky bastard. Will check that first before I do the engine etc, but still feel like I should scrape the gaskets just in case that is the case, you all told me, just the halfmoons, the friend working on the car with me knew his stuff, but apparently not BMW stuff well enough, it was just a seemingly negligible amount "Just to be sure" the seal was good, I never thought it would throw off the seal... Also torque-ing everything down correctly will bring peace of mind, then if it is still giving issues, the hair pulling begins.

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Would "penetrating oil" be the same thing as "carb cleaner" or do I need to take a ride to the autoparts store again?

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517463&stc=1This is a 540, mine is a 530, I have different 6-7-8, it looks like on mine the 8 fits into the manifold and there is nothing on the other side, maybe I somehow did it backwards... that doesn't seem to make sense, stepping outside now. May need to buy one of these code machines and do the "stomp test" it looks, are the code machines expensive?

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517463&stc=1This is a 540, mine is a 530, I have different 6-7-8, it looks like on mine the 8 fits into the manifold and there is nothing on the other side, maybe I somehow did it backwards... that doesn't seem to make sense, stepping outside now. May need to buy one of these code machines and do the "stomp test" it looks, are the code machines expensive?

eddycooper

11-14-2014, 01:16 PM

Grab a couple pictures of the area around the throttle body and that idle control valve. A quick visual check will confirm that everything is good. Also, try to make the pictures a little better focused than the ones you took of the PCV plate area.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 02:02 PM

Will do right now and come in and upload, have the rubber mallet w/ me and will make sure the gasket on it into the manifold steel elbow is all the way in, and the plug is the right one. Will drive it up onto the ramps now too, pull the fuel pump fuse to stall it, unplug batter, take off gas cap, and get to labeling everything again, removing the engine splash pans, then drain the coolant and am going to retorque everything and make sure all the gaskets are seated, remove the putty from everywhere but halfmoons...

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517474&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517475&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517476&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517477&stc=1Alright, picture 1 shows that it is not seated correctly, I am going to fix that now, the hose clamp also came undone, will fix that also. The next picture shows what I plugged into it, it is part # 1732634, when I google it, it comes up as "crankshaft sensor" or the rubber body for it, is that another name for "idle control valve" or did I mislabel the wire somehow and need to use the mystery/ghost one and make this the unused one?

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http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517474&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517475&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517476&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517477&stc=1Alright, picture 1 shows that it is not seated correctly, I am going to fix that now, the hose clamp also came undone, will fix that also. The next picture shows what I plugged into it, it is part # 1732634, when I google it, it comes up as "crankshaft sensor" or the rubber body for it, is that another name for "idle control valve" or did I mislabel the wire somehow and need to use the mystery/ghost one and make this the unused one?

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Will wait on the whole battery unplug and draining, it would be awesome if this makes it stop stalling and run smooth, will reseat gasket for this icv and get the hose properly situated and tightened, and await confirmation that I have the right plug into it before I start it up. Then if it's cool, awesome, it does sound far stronger and smoother when I'm revving it before it stalls at idle, then will redo all the valve cover gaskets and manifold gaskets anyways w the torque so I'm good. Then to figuring out what front-end kit to get...

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I was just copying the pre-existing set-up with the pull-tie, seemed like a precaution but not a bad one.

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 02:11 PM

You're dealing with the right component, and from the looks of it correct connector. I believe the color of plug and connector in ICV should be the same. As I believe you said, just make sure seals are aligned and such.

Regarding your valve cover seals, on mine I put a small bead all along the mating surface on the valve cover itself. In the groove that the gasket seats into. Not enough to make a mess, but a continuous bead to ensure a complete seal. Then I let it sit for a couple of minutes to allow the rtv to tack up. All I wanted was the gasket to stay in place while maneuvering the cover into position. I did not put any on the gasket to head mating surface, FYI. Of course it will then involve some later scraping, wire brushing, or in my case wire wheel on a drill if/when I need to do it again, but I'm not to worried about that. I never painted my covers, and the only reason I haven't disassembled and redid, was lack of availability in media blasting. Which is another good point, wouldn't most of us ideally want to strip and repaint the entire thing anyhow?

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Put that grey gasket/o-ring/grommet into the throttle plate, then seat the ICV into it. That may help you with the proper seat/alignment. Infact, from my experience, the only way to get the holder into place, and then the ICV slides into the holder, is to remove the throttle cable support bracket and assemble as such. Then insert ICV into grommet and bolt plate back down. That's if your ICV rubber/plastic holder (talking about #10 in the image of the intake) is intact both top and bottom to the support bracket.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 02:35 PM

Ah, I was trying to get that rubber gasket off the ICV to put in first, will do next.

Either way, I tightened the hose, reseated the ICV, and it started, stalled, I started it again, gave it some consistent gas, and then it balanced out and ran better than it ever has.

However, it is leaking out the valve-cover gasket on the passenger side and dropping into the manifold. I'm going to take off the spark plug housings and e-housing, pull the manifold, torque the valley pan to proper values, put the manifold back on making sure the gaskets are perfect, torque that to specified values, then I need to scrape the engine surface of the gaskets of all putty, reseat them, and find out the torque value for that, I have the PDF chart but will make sure exact values are not in the Bentley manual for the L and R blocks.
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517483&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517484&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=517485&stc=1

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 02:47 PM

When in doubt of fluid type. Put leaking fluid on piece of white printer paper, then put drop of all potential fluids on paper as well. Should be a no-brainer at that point.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 09:33 PM

Uh where might the coolant drain plug on the engine be? Googling and can't find it for the m60 engine, Bentley manual tells me the torque but doesn't show me where it is... Almost pulled the oil plug by accident

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I am defeated. Took it all apart today, it turns out there was a small bit of tape left over the cylinder hole one 1/8 cylinders. I thought hey, sweet, the problem. I opened it up down the valley pan to torque it right, torqued 1, then 2 in a row stripped, so I stopped w the torque wrench and just snugged them down. Cylinder heads, cleaned off the putty from the valve cover gaskets, Binjammin was right, they were blocking the seal. Both cylinder heads back on, try to start torquing them, driver's side 2 of the bolts bit off the top of the stud, so now they don't tighten at all as the post lost its tip the weird nuts w/ the female insert can reach, passenger side was leaking oil before, made sure all manifold gaskets were good, too scared to torque passenger side, reseated valve cover gasket and cleaned it of all putty, just snugged them all tight but no torque wrench as that is the problematic side, and stripping screws over there would be terrible. Same with everything else, properly tight, scared to use the torque as it ate 2 stud-heads and stripped 2 bolts on the valley pan. I heeded all advice on the idle, it is properly connected.

I went to start it. It started. Still idling low. Drove it around the block, drove well and strong, it kept idling without gas when I pulled back in, but noticed heavy oil coming out of exhaust, could be normal since it has been drained twice and not driven over the last 8 days. I open the hood, and more smoke from the passenger side under the engine cap. I am going to put in a few gallons of gas tomorrow in it as it was low, then let it run a while and try and drive it and see if the smoke keeps happening, and if it keeps dripping. The valve cover gaskets are properly seated, sealed in only the halfmoons properly, and tightened on well, so I don't know why oil is still leaking out the passenger side.

I am done I think. It took all the self restraint I could muster to not put the torque wrench through the windshield. It has been 8 solid days and I have missed out in more money at work than I would have spent on the repair, and it seems I have made things worse and now I don't have a car that I can drive at all instead of one that was just shrieking a bit. I spent at least $600ish in parts, and another $300-400 in supplies (ramps, tools, misc. parts etc.), so I was quoted at "around a thousand" for the valve cover gaskets, and "around 500" for the PCV plate, around $1500 for a sure-thing repair with parts when I have spent already $900 and invested 8 days of life and lost substantial projects at work seems like the better choice. I feel like an absolute idiot, and totally cannot come up with $1500 on top of the $900 I wasted so far. I have no idea what to do now, I need a car and this one is probably worth no more than junk value now...

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 09:51 PM

Don't beat yourself up to bad. Sure you had an estimate, sure you could have worked, but not one thing says they weren't gonna strip some threads. You have knowledge, and while that isn't always applicable, it's yours and now you know they (the mechanics) weren't fuggin with ya when they would have likely/inevitability called you to say "well...." Are you sure of what stripped? Stud or nut? Either is replaceable. I've got stripped coil studs and have to constantly check em until I find a way to make them sick to the valve covers.

e34lovinghater

11-14-2014, 10:18 PM

Coil studs? Which are those? The one the spark plug housing units attach to? If so, maybe just manufacture a new ear for the spark plug housing unit to connect to one of the other two posts that are there?

For the blocks the nut with the female insert piece that locks onto the stud ate the top of the stud in 2 instances on the driver's side, so the part of the stud is stuck in the nut and no nuts reach the stud anymore. On the valley pan the bolts didn't strip, the place they go into stripped so the bolts are still good but they can't bite onto anything. Another of those female nuts stripped out, but the stud was fine.

Any thoughts on the oil still leaking out the passenger side of the engine? I know the cars smoke a bit after they get fixed, and I did have some extra oil slooshying around down there on that side when I put in the spark plugs, but I would think it would stop not get worse when the car got warm right?

Eh the knowledge is interesting but given that the car doesn't work and I'm out so much money, in no way worth it. This is teaching me to never again touch a car, and to probably never again buy a BMW. Clearly I am not capable of repairing them, and the cost of repairs on an e34 worth no more than $2,500 on craigslist are silly and not something I can afford regularly, so I have no place driving one anymore. I should look into leasing, I'd rather pay $3600 a year for a solid brand new car than waste an average of $4,000 a year on used BMWs, which I've been experiencing now for 3 years straight. The first 2 e34s I had were fantastic, got me around and across the country, minimal and straightforward repairs, then the e39 obliterated my savings account, and this e34 has damaged my spirit. They are fun to drive but I need to realize I should not be the one to enjoy them. BMW apparently can mean "breaks my wallet". Lexus or Infiniti will weight less and have weaker driving abilities, but at least they won't be like this. I just want a stick-shift that is fun and works, BMW feels great and handles well but nothing should cause this level of heartache. I'm going to contact BMW of America and lodge another complaint, the e39 spurred my first one and I've been a member of their Auto Club of America for prob 8 years now, now for the one I never thought I'd place, one on an e34. So stylish and strong, but such a horrible horrible bitch. I should change my screen name to e34hater. My starting advice for this DIY will absolutely be "Don't." In fact maybe I won't even put one up, I did not succeed in the repair so whatever I did learn I apparently did not apply properly.

LUVMY540I

11-14-2014, 11:55 PM

I can certainly understand your frustration.For some fun, info, laughs at my expense, whatever have a look at my for the most part abandoned thread on the Fest (http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=760201&highlight=). I have at least as much money in an issue as yet unresolved. Most of what you've done, is likely a one time deal. Obviously aside from any necessary rework for current work/learning. I agree, a monthly payment seems far better than frustration and the feeling of failure. The thing is, you have't failed, some parts/designs/assemblies have failed. You said it's running better than ever in some respects, continue to push. Idk what you're used to driving/working on, but I've never felt a car was easier to work on than my 540. Of course that isn't an across the board opinion, more of a generality. I'm about to endeavor on an engine swap, Nikasil to Alusil. For nothing more than piesce of mind seemingly at this point. As one person here has stated my compression isn't so terrible. My car lacks power IMO, and short of dynoing it to prove it, nothing else correlates. Don't give yet. Frustration, understandable. Giving up, not an option. Rest assured, once accomplished, you will know where it stands in it's entirety. Maybe I should speak for myself, but that is all that really matters. Short of, as you put it a solid car with new car payments.

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I owe nothing on this car. Everything I put in it is mine, not a banks. What most fail to realize, in my poor opinion, is as my dad, father once put it "You either have a car payment, or a car repair payment." One is every month, the other is an as needed. You are doing work that will likely, and if done correctly, obviously, will outlast the body and frame most likely. How can that be a loss? That being said, if you're in it for some temporary satisfaction with the car, bail out now and part that witch out! In my useless opinion, these nearly 20 year old gurls aren't for the faint of heart. My description of my 540 to a stranger of the E34 would go something like, "It was built to also Rally, so much of it is roadside serviceable. Not everything, and certainly don't expect an obstacle free repair in general, but it would suffice to say any work invested in it, that brings any part back to day 1 staus successfully pays off way more than it ever would have for my old Acura or even my old Supra... God rest her soul."

Moral of the story, you have a car payment or a car repair / maintenance payment. So if you like it easy, a nearly 20 beast to the roads may not be in your best interest. Hopefully you got the feeling from what I'm saying and wasn't in any way offended.

e34lovinghater

11-15-2014, 02:27 AM

I understand the repair vs. rental issue, but these repairs can get way out of hand, and on a lease the customer does not have to pay for them, yes? Either way I own my car in full too, and it is consuming too much in parts and time to deserve being mine. Were it a woman I'd call it a selfish gold digger that rarely lets me have any fun and move on to the next one, but I just sunk like $300 in tires, $300 in serpentine tensioner/belt and a/c belt at the mechanic, oil change at mechanic for $100, then the $600 in parts and $300 in tools for the re-gasketing of everything, so in the last 2-3 months I've put in around $1,500 into the car, it is only worth $2,500 in real Craigslist money, $3,000 for the buyer who appreciates it (I paid $3,300 as the seller knew I did), so I need to fix it or cut my losses and move on. I don't know how or what to do though. I'm in deep on the betting in this hand, not sure if I should fold or not.

Any ideas on the leaking oil hitting the exhaust manifold and causing smoke? The valve cover gasket is tight, seated properly, and free of sealer excepting the half-moons. The manifold is tight, the gaskets are seating correctly. The car starts and drives. It idles rough at first, after driving, it stayed alive on idle almost like normal, hovering around 1,000-1,300rpms. It began to chug out a bit, then caught back up to itself. But, the leaking oil and smoke is still going on. The valve cover gaskets looked fine when I cleaned them, still brand new looking, but were obviously wet from oil along the parts the sealer flattened it out and ruined the seal. The seal is good now. I am at a total loss, there was no leaking oil on the passenger side of the car before at all. Just the shrieking on the driver's side, probably caused simply by the hose on the PCV back plate not being plugged in right, now $900 and 8 days and probably 40ish hours actually physically working on the car (half of which were with my girlfriend, so another 20 (wo)man hours, and my friend helped for 5), so we have a huge investment in time into this, not counting here online or in the Bentley manual studying which comprised dozens more hours, the car is still bleeding oil and smoking, but the shrieking is gone. I have done serpentine tensioner, serpentine belt, a/c belt, new tires, oil change, fluid top off, new valve cover gaskets, new engine/accumulator gaskets, new o-rings for water pump and accumulator, new gaskets under manifold to engine, new PCV back plate, new PCV back plate hose, new PCV back plate plugs, new spark plugs, uh... I think that is it. How could any of these things have caused me to begin leaking oil out the passenger side? It looks like the block, but I am scared to torque it out of fear of stripping more bolts, and I thought a valve cover gasket looseness or something like that would not appear for a few weeks, so why is it bleeding oil now...

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Hmm, I did the wet white paper, I used a paper towel, and it may be gasoline, is more of a light brown color than the dark brown/black color of the oil, and definitely not the sickly green coolant color. My neighbor texted back after I told him how I changed out the valve cover gaskets, and said "You sure that was oil dripping? Looked like fuel. Fuel goes through regulator before injector rail". What is "regulator"? It is not leaking from the bottom of the injector rail, and it looks like it is coming from beneath the block and hitting the exhaust manifold, not from within the valve cover gasket necessarily, not that I can get down there and look up as hot whatever is dripping down...

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It is low on gas, the low gas light came on, could that be whacking out the fuel pressure and causing it to leak gas from the passenger side of the engine? I found some post from a BMWCCA Boston website that had something about that, this dude's 530i was idling rough and stalling out, and before ripping through repairs he added gas, and it pressurized the system and worked fine. I had unplugged the fuel pump fuse to stall it out, then plugged it back in before reconnecting the battery when I was done with the work. Could this have anything to do with the leaking gas or oil from the passenger side?

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Maybe it is the FPR? Would a malfunctioning one of those result in fuel spilling onto the right exhaust pipes running under the block?

e34lovinghater

11-15-2014, 04:37 PM

I have a friend w a scan tool, will hit him up and see if I can get an idea from the codes. In the interim I am buying a red plastic capsule for gas today and putting in a few gallons, maybe having low gas is messing w the pressure system or something, not that a lack of pressure would produce leaking though right?

BA in TO

11-16-2014, 01:06 AM

I have had VCG Oil Gasket leaks for a few months and just resealed them for the 3rd time today in 4 months so I feel your pain, keep your head up you have done a lotta work...I still have to redo the driver side as she is leaking after I re did it today.....OEM gaskets on order...my M88/3 in the euro M6 is no where near as difficult....

e34lovinghater

11-16-2014, 06:29 PM

My car is too old for the scan tool... Just going to take it to the mechanic tomorrow, can't be putting more time into it.

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I am sorry to hear that, VCG replacement is annoying, but at least the manifold can stay on. Are the spark plug housings kind of awkward to remove on your engine too? I was terrified I'd break wires and the car would not start back up again... What does it look like when it is leaking? Did it look like the three pictures I uploaded? Is the liquid not very viscous? I thought it was oil at first, but now I am not certain...If fuel is the issue I think I should just take it to the mechanic, I read too many horror stories when going through fuel system DIYs about professional mechanics getting sprayed in the face with hot gasoline, and I am no professional so can't be risking that. You are using sealer on yours? I don't now about your model specifically, but the advice on here is that I am only to use sealant on the half-moons of the VGC, not anywhere else, and I actually did it twice on mine as I made that mistake, opened it up again and removed the cylinder heads on mine and carefully got rid of the sealant that I had put on and Binjammin was correct, the sealant had seated in the grooves of the VCG, preventing it from making a proper seal against the engine head. That could be an issue with you perhaps...

e34lovinghater

11-18-2014, 04:53 PM

I just tried starting it up again to do a diagnostic the mechanic told me to do before I bring it in, he thinks I probably broke the valve cover putting it on and taking it off so many times. But, the engine is now knocking, like it sounded like there was a person trapped in the manifold knocking upwards, sounded like it was hitting the bottom of the engine cover. This is new. It is revving just fine and actually stayed running in idle after I got it up to 3000 a few times, but then the knocking began. I had to shut it off before the dripping on the passenger side began. Any thoughts? The mechanic is booked through Thanksgiving so I'm going to have to find a rental and admit defeat I guess, seems like things keep getting worse and I can't be stripping out more bolts and breaking more things I don't know...

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BA in TO, maybe that is your problem, if you keep adding new valve cover gaskets or sealer, it could be that the valve cover itself cracked, apparently magnesium is no tougher than aluminum and often breaks, so mechanics may keep old engines around to take them off of when that happens.

excelsisba

11-24-2014, 06:13 PM

Hey man, just wondering if you made any other progress?

e34lovinghater

12-12-2014, 01:45 PM

Just got the car back yesterday from the indie mechanic. I nearly went insane trying to get it cleared, gave up, brought it to the BMW dealership. They said I needed new valve covers as they were broken/defective, and new valve cover gaskets, and to re-route wires and things I plugged in incorrectly. I paid them around $350 to do the wire rerouting then towed it to my indie, as he said he doesn't do sloppy seconds, so once it was fixed with the routing he took it from there. Dealer quoted me at $1700 for new valve covers and valve cover gaskets, my valve covers ended up being fine, so I got new vcg's put on, and it needed brake line grommets or something and a few hoses etc, fastened a front fog light that was falling off, for about half of the dealer quotek. My accumulator gaskets, manifold gaskets, and rear PCV plate that I also installed were all good, no more howling, and now it runs smoother than ever, strong idle, superior acceleration, and the mechanic who worked on it took some time to clean it so under the hood looks great. I think I ended up saving about as much as I spent given that the manifold gaskets, PCV plate, and o-rings that I installed were well done, as that would have been probably around 1,000 given that the manifold has to come off. At least I'm driving again, from start to finish, when I got in the new serpentine belt and tensioner that in turn immediately blew out the rear PCV plate gasket and started the howling, I haven't had it for 11 weeks...

Thanks for all the help here. I will not be putting up a DIY as I failed on some key things, but there are a ton of photos in here that could be helpful. I'll put up pics of under the hood later so ya'll can see how much work the dude put in cleaning, and they put back in all the "Jesus clips" on the fuel injectors etc. too. And re-installed my splash shields so I didn't have to drive onto the ramps and get into it again myself.

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Oh yeah, the key bit of advice I learned from the experience: don't use reinz valve cover gaskets, they ended up being defective. I saved around $10/gasket and ended up wasting probably dozens of hours putting the valve covers and valve cover gaskets on and off again 3 times thinking it was me who was doing things wrong and causing the oil leak when the reinz gaskets were to blame, being defective. The dealer said they looked older than they should be, the indie said they weren't doing their job, and BavAuto said they were only sitting in their warehouse for a few months and were new from the factory, meaning they were manufactured weak. Not worth the risk, I'll never buy aftermarket parts again. Window regulators seem to be the same, aftermarkets break in a heartbeat, factory originals can last for decades (all 4 in my car were original, passenger side just broke, going to pay the mechanic (when I say mechanic I mean shop owner) for it as the tech he uses on my car is great, and mine never was done so it has the rivet in there still, I checked, that I don't want to deal with, and the window is cemented into the guide pretty damned well and I don't want to wrestle with it).

So, if you DIY, you are already saving a bundle on labor, don't let salespeople talk you out of BMW original parts, even if every other customer ever said they were great, why risk it? You might be the one who suffers from aftermarket's lower level of quality control and get the defective oddball. Save $100/hr on labor, but don't save $10s of dollars on parts that are more likely to fail you.

Trasportador

12-13-2014, 03:57 PM

You are a good man Sir. Glad you got it sorted. I use VR HC gaskets on all my cars, no issues. DIY isn't for everyone.

e34lovinghater

12-16-2014, 02:13 PM

DIY most certainly is not for everyone, apparently. A quick little tip before I forget, if you ever "need" a car for the weekend, and yours is questionable, take it to the BMW dealer and pay the $135 diagnostic fee. You get a free loaner the entire time, and for me, I dropped the car off on the Friday pre-Thanksgiving, and used a 2015 328i with less than 300 miles on it for a solid week, including thanksgiving, so I basically got the rerouting work done for what I would have paid for a rental to get to the gf's fame for Thanksgiving anyways. So worth it. But, my indie said the dealer used as 525/535 wiring chart for the reorganization of the wires, and the tech had to redo them to 530/540 specs which accounted for 1 of the hours charged, using the owner's 6sp 540i as a model. I'm going to talk to the tech directly and if that is true get a refund from the dealer, as they should know better.

On the DIY, I approached it with the greatest possible patience, spent a week studying and drawing graphs and determining a strategy before I got into it, then once I got into it all that was useful but did not translate completely. The Bentley Manual is garbage, I wouldn't recommend spending the money on it, $60 wasted that I should have just bought printer ink for instead, I ended up surfing this forum while I was working on the car and asking Binjammin questions as the book skips over dozens of steps and has very very poor illustrations, should have just printed out a booklet of all the DIYs and pictures. The VCG replacement DIY in the bentley manual is I think 9 steps. There at least 100 with all the hose removals, nut pulls, mounting bracket repositionings... We should compile a BimmerFest DIY e34 Bible, with proper photos and steps... Either way though yeah, under the hood is a risky investment, but I went through the math yesterday, and for me to pay the mechanic to do the rear PCV plate, front & Rear manifold gaskets, bottom of manifold to engine gaskets, accumulator-to-engine gaskets, valley pan and valley pan gasket, and PCV plate hoses, I would have spent at least 20 hours of labor, as the PCV plate alone was around 5 (quoted at $570 from the indie for just the plate and hose replacements, I paid for the plate $65 at BavAuto for original BMW and the hoses were like $15 each at the dealer as they were 2-3 weeks out at BavAuto but in stock at the dealer), the valley pan would probably be quoted at around 5-7 alone but I'll assume 5 with the other stuff, the removal of the manifold 7+, the accumulator probably would be quoted around the same as the manifold, but if it was off already maybe a bit less so say 2-3 hours, then the o-rings they'd hit you for at least .5 hours, so 19.5-22.5 hours of labor saved, then the parts would have cost more, so all in all I can comfortably say I saved around $2,000-2,300 in labor alone, $2,500+ total, so in reality worth it, as I don't need a car for working online and can get rides to stores and such from the gf or friends while the car is out of commission, so not having it for a few months was annoying, but worth learning and saving around $2.5k. Here's some photos of under-the-hood as it is now after the tech spent some time on it, I like the tech, he has an M3 from the e34 era (an e30 maybe?) that is turbo-charged and baller. Thanks again for all the info on the way. I need to go mail xmas gifts, and will be doing it in an e34 and not on a skateboard, first trip to the post office in 3 months in a car, sweet.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=519473&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=519474&stc=1http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=519475&stc=1

e34lovinghater

01-28-2015, 04:38 PM

Just an update! The car has been good for the most part! I had a dead battery, jumped it, died again and I figured I had to buy one, but ended up just having a loose negative connection so that is fixed. As I pulled it up to inspect it a few weeks ago, after having driven 3.5 hours each way to and from Houston for Christmas, the hose connected to the radiator popped off and started dumping coolant. Fixed the clamp, all good. If that happened on the highway I would have overheated and killed the engine. Lucky. My interior lights were not working, texted the former owner and figured out I had them in the wrong setting, now they turn on when I open the door... Sweet.

Is there a quick and easy way to deactivate the passenger airbag? (The 2015 I had from the dealer had a button next to the sunroof to do it) Basically so my dog can ride in front without worry of the airbag hitting her.

The next step is the front passenger side window regulator. I'm going to buy 6x12mm nuts and bolts, a 6.5mm HSS bit (Not sure what that is just yet but my father probably has one to mail to me). Then just drill out the 6 rivets, hopefully the thing the glass is seated on is solid, then I pop in the ball thing on the new regulator into those slots, line it up, plug and screw it all in and done? I've done like 5 or 6 window replacements on an e39, this will be my first e34 attempt. I can't keep spending money at the mechanic though so have decided to try and get it myself, I spent nearly $3,000 on this car over August-November of 2014. Insanity. Totally worth it though, I do love ripping around the city in a v8 stick-shift e34.

Happy New Year All!

excelsisba

01-28-2015, 06:27 PM

Glad to hear you still love the car after all that! Yeah the window regulators aren't fun but you can manage. Cross your fingers and hope it has already been replaced once and you don't have to drill those rivets out!

raceyBMW

01-28-2015, 06:31 PM

Drilling the rivets isn't really that bad with a good drill bit. Might need a stubby wrench though to hold the nut on the backside of the regulator while you turn.

e34lovinghater

01-30-2015, 09:26 PM

Thankfully man, I'd be incredibly angry if I'd felt like it wasn't worth it after-the-fact, it took up sooo much time, money, and stress, but I did save like 2.5 grand and did a great deal of preventative maintenance. The e34 is a fun car to drive, and at least I know this one's engine doesn't have any worms lingering around in it. The calypso red I like as well, and once I spend $10 on the tinting material and whatever on a hot air gun, will tint out the tail-lights and signals to deepen its coloring, and ceramic tint its windows in the spring when the TX heat approaches.

For the window regulator I will get a good drill bit from my father and kill the 6 rivets, and by stubby wrench, any more detailed info? Like a super short 12mm one? I hadn't thought of that, it may be difficult to reach some of the regulator bolts? Hopefully I can leave in the window, I hated removing the trim and window on the e39, stressful, windows are hella expensive. I opened the e34 door up once to get a feel for it and to confirm the regulator was bent beyond a quick fix, but of course I forgot whether it was bolted or riveted, but I'm fairly certain it had rivets as I have too many pages bookmarked on how to remove it with the rivets to not need to do it. I'll just try it myself to save on the labor, this car has cost me enough already. Any opinion on brands? Bavarian Autosport charges $136.95 for the BMW regulator, or $84.95 for the one by "Siemens". They give a 1yr warranty on either, any thoughts? For my last model, an e39, the price difference was about the same, so I went with the cheap one on the logic that it would be free to replace but ended up going through 3 in 2 years, got the swap-out down to 11 minutes by the third time, so ultimately had to pay for 2 overall and would have saved on the BMW one. BavAuto said they fail and are returned at around the same rate so it wouldn't really matter either way... Not sure on the e34 though.

e34lovinghater

02-03-2015, 02:11 AM

I have a quick question if anyone has a moment and would be cool enough to share:

My idle when after I finished everything then paid BMW and the local indie to fix it was solid, it started strong, and held around 1,000rpm-ish, maybe 1,500. Now it still starts awesome, but when idling it goes down to 500rpm, then mildly roars up to 1,500rpm, then drops down to 500rpm, and continues with this whenever it is at idle like at a stop-light or in the parking lot. Do I just need to check and maybe adjust the idle-control arm to re-adjust that? It seems minor, but is annoying, it still runs solid, isn't eating oil or coolant, just this odd jumpy idle. The weather here has been colder and rainier than usual, so I was thinking maybe o2 sensors...

excelsisba

02-03-2015, 09:20 AM

Hunting idle sounds like a vacuum leak. Not what you want to hear but that's a typical symptom. Have cleaned the idle control valve? Mine was stuck and gummed up.

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There's other things it could be but this where I would start since it started with colder weather.

e34lovinghater

02-03-2015, 04:33 PM

Thanks I will check it out, but by idle control valve you mean the steel elbow on the front of the manifold? When I had the manifold off in my living room I had checked it out and the steel flap in the front seemed to be all fine and dandy and I did wipe out as much what ultimately looked gray on the blue shop towels, just a little though, looked like old dust or something. Do you think it would just be the throttle cable maybe needs a few rotations to tighten it more onto the idle control valve? I remember I had an accord with the same issue and we just elevated the throttle power by turning a screw that I think was the equivalent of that plastic top that rotates around the cable and tightens it onto the slot on the steel elbow...

Will look in a short while and see if there anything off and update. Thanks again!

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I've been reading through forums on here, and my mechanic had said the replaced brake lines that were running old and cracked and leaking a bit. On this thread, post #5, http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2056843-1994-530i-M60-Rough-Idle , the guy says he thinks it could be the brake line going into the intake manifold. Those were replaced, but I'll check. The other option would be a vacuum leak through the rear PCV plate. I replaced that, the rear PCV plate, the rear manifold gasket, and the front manifold gasket. The rear PCV plate was official BMW, the gaskets I am 99% sure were as the front one came in a package kit for the valley pan with all original BMW parts, I specifically selected BMW on the PCV back plate, but I have a small suspicion the gasket may have been aftermarket, but would have been the same part number. I'm thinking maybe I need to tighten the PCV plate to make sure it isn't that? I replaced the hex with 12mm bolts so I can gain access to them without having to remove the manifold...

excelsisba

02-03-2015, 05:07 PM

Also check the 2 vacuum caps on the ccv plate.

raceyBMW

02-03-2015, 05:08 PM

Nope, what you are referring to is the ASC+T throttle body, the Idle control valve (ICV) is the metal device that sits on top of the throttle bodies (this is an M62, but same position)
http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=523554&stc=1
Take it out, careful not to rip the rubber bits, spray MAF or electric parts cleaner in there, shake, and repeat. The metal piece on the inside should rotate freely back and forth. Worth a shot. This doesn't sounds like a throttle cable issue.

There is a vac line right under the throttle body that is really tough to get to, but it will definitely crack and split with age...mine was basically welded to the nipple under there and I had to cut it off to replace.

e34lovinghater

02-03-2015, 05:50 PM

Thanks for the info excelcisba and raceyBMW. I was definitely thinking of the throttle body. The ICV could definitely be the source, I had to use zip-ties to keep it on there tight, as I have that rubber part, #3, but it didn't feel as solidly connected as it should have, so I put a few zip-ties on there, as there were 2 on there when I first went into it so I'm assuming that is proper. Is it? It was also a pain to get on the #4 rubber ring, so I had removed it from the ICV, put it onto the insert point, then inserted the ICV into it. I'll remove the ICV and spray it, I don't think I have a spray that will work, is "silicone dissolving spray" the same thing, it's supposed to be a degreaser it says? I remember playing around with it though, that metal plate inside of it, and it moved, but I do not think it was spinning freely or loosely as you describe, but had a bit of resistance. Will do this tomorrow as it is raining hard today and the parking area is uncovered at my pad. It would be great if I just need to snug up the ICV, will tighten the 6 or 7 12mm bolts on the back of the rear PCV plate too just to be sure. Given that it is colder out the rubber would be harder, so any weaknesses in the connection that were smushed over when the rubber was warm would become apparent...

So I know I'm safe, this won't cause any damage to my car will it? It is just skippy from 500rpm to 1,500rpm when it is idling, it runs just as good as it did when I finished the repair, more acceleration than before, sounds better, but this annoying hopping idle began probably 1-2 weeks ago when the weather went bad... Wait a minute, I did have a dead battery that was due to a loose negative connection. I tightened it after it had been jumped and died it again then I realized it was the negative cable connection on the battery istelf, and it (the battery) has been fixed since then, but maybe the rough idle started after the battery died, I don't remember noticing it before that... Could the battery dying have something to do with it in any way?

Thanks for the info! The $3k-ish I spent on this over the fall/winter has made me very careful, I spent too much of my time and too much at the mechanics (yes, plural, I paid the BMW dealer to fix the key functional issues, the mechanic to do the rest, like replacing the engine block posts I stripped when installing the valve cover gaskets) to let it start slipping now. The car is 21, I want to keep it a reliable everyday driver until it becomes an antique in 4 years. Then maybe I'll get another e34 daily driver, a v6 so I get better gas mileage, and garage this. But until then this car ate my savings so it has to stay alive, and hopefully for not too much

raceyBMW

02-03-2015, 06:07 PM

#3 (PN:13411736144) should have little nubs on the end that fit into that bracket like below, should be no zip ties needed (someone before you broke it off probably).
http://c1552172.r72.cf0.rackcdn.com/335677_x800.jpg

Trick to #4 (PN:13411733217) is to put the grommit into the throttle first, take of the pipe from end of ICV toward fan, use some sil-glyde on the other end that goes into the grommit and pound it in with a rubber mallet.

The contraption inside the ICV should spin very freely from side to side when you rock it back and forth, little to no resistance. If your idle went bad when it got cold, then it is still very likely a vacuum leak somewhere.

e34lovinghater

02-03-2015, 06:31 PM

Ah, you are totally right, one of the nubs was broken off, hence the zip ties. I'll just buy a new one of these and the inside gasket, I had pulled the gasket off the ICV and used my palm to pound it onto the throttle body, but will make sure to do a better job this time, and will clean the inside extremely well. Hopefully those steps work. Either way though, I'm not harming the engine or anything driving it until that is cleared up am I? Thanks!

raceyBMW

02-03-2015, 07:03 PM

Probably not harming engine since it is only at idle, though if vac. leak is big enough you could be running slightly lean because of unmetered air entering system.

e34lovinghater

02-03-2015, 07:23 PM

Awesome, so at least no harm for the rare occasion I drive about. Working at home has been a godsend given the ongoing issues with this car. Let's hope it is just that, I'll update tomorrow after I play around with it, will probably have to wait until the weekend to hit up the dealer for the two rubber parts that attach to the ICV, but I'll tighten it down proper, tighten the bolts on the PCV back plate, and if the idle evens out then I know I just need to keep that ICV booted on right for the rest of the week until I replace the rubbers. So with those two nubs it will fit in tight and I won't need zip ties anymore? I am glad I did so much work on the car, knowing what is under the hood is new for me, and very cool, not something I anticipated.

raceyBMW

02-04-2015, 11:13 AM

I would call the dealer first, those are likely special order parts. And yes, no more zip ties needed once you get that rubber clamp piece, unless the bracket it slips into is damaged. If you haven't replaced that grommet that fits between the ICV and TB, I would just go ahead and order that since the ICV has probably been bouncing around and damaged the grommet somewhat (that might be one of the parts you are referring to)

e34lovinghater

02-05-2015, 10:05 AM

Cool, I did mean the grommet racey BMW. This morning though, NEW ISSUE!!! I turned on my heater for the first time in a week or two, it has been raining very heavily for prob 5 days, and I commented to my gf as I drove her to the airport that the wood someone was burning smelled nice. It got stronger, then I noticed smoke was coming into the cabin out of the upper vents. I immediately pulled over, checked under the hood, and no smoke. Called my father, he advised to check under the hood for smoke, and shut off the heater. Shutting off the heater ended the smoke. I took her to the airport and drove the 10 miles home w/o the heater. Temp was fine the whole way, drove normally. When I pulled back in, I turned the temp to cold and ran it just to see, and no smoke or anything on cold. Should I try using the heater again, maybe it had to clear out some condensation from the rain?, or is the smoke an issue? It smelled like burning brush or wood with maybe a hint of electronic or plastic burn...

So vacuum leak has to be handled, and now this... Time to start setting aside money, if I need a new blower I'll fix the passenger side window first so that will be good until spring turns to summer then the blower has to get done, if that is even the issue... I wonder if leaves can be forced into the heater element and ignited...

excelsisba

02-05-2015, 03:36 PM

Binjammin

02-05-2015, 03:59 PM

DO NOT RUN THE FAN ANYMORE! We have seen multiple e34s burn because of this! Count yourself lucky.

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1666445-Another-almost-fried-e34-blower-motor-fire-almost

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1427975-Smoking-out-vents-Burned-out-blower-motor

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1389916-In-Flames-E34

This post has a few more link examples:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1426639-pics-of-my-melted-fuse-box-(finally)&p=27390990#post27390990

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...or-fire-almost (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1666445-Another-almost-fried-e34-blower-motor-fire-almost)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r+fuse+19+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1662419-Question-on-blower-motor-replacement&highlight=blower+motor+fuse+19+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r+fuse+19+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2035931-Fuse-19-melted-into-box&highlight=blower+motor+fuse+19+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1666445-Another-almost-fried-e34-blower-motor-fire-almost&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...wer+motor+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1389937-E34-s-going-up-in-flames&highlight=blower+motor+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...wer+motor+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1389937-E34-s-going-up-in-flames&highlight=blower+motor+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1881457-Fire-in-Dash-and-now-need-main-wiring-harness-for-1990-525i&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1860502-Sword-causing-fire&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r-tow-it-away! (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1086632-Complete-525im-parts-car-tow-it-away%21)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ght=dinan+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1279656-Afternoon-details-thread-Dinan-fire-content-Come-for-the-story-stay-for-the-pics&highlight=dinan+fire)

excelsisba

02-05-2015, 06:15 PM

This post has a few more link examples:

http://www.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1426639-pics-of-my-melted-fuse-box-(finally)&p=27390990#post27390990

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...or-fire-almost (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1666445-Another-almost-fried-e34-blower-motor-fire-almost)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r+fuse+19+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1662419-Question-on-blower-motor-replacement&highlight=blower+motor+fuse+19+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r+fuse+19+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2035931-Fuse-19-melted-into-box&highlight=blower+motor+fuse+19+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1666445-Another-almost-fried-e34-blower-motor-fire-almost&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...wer+motor+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1389937-E34-s-going-up-in-flames&highlight=blower+motor+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...wer+motor+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1389937-E34-s-going-up-in-flames&highlight=blower+motor+fire)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1881457-Fire-in-Dash-and-now-need-main-wiring-harness-for-1990-525i&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...light=fire+e34 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1860502-Sword-causing-fire&highlight=fire+e34)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...r-tow-it-away! (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1086632-Complete-525im-parts-car-tow-it-away%21)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum...ght=dinan+fire (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?1279656-Afternoon-details-thread-Dinan-fire-content-Come-for-the-story-stay-for-the-pics&highlight=dinan+fire)

Haha! Nice!

excelsisba

02-05-2015, 06:37 PM

Don't think you necessarily had a fire but in danger of starting one. I wouldn't make a claim on it.

One of Ben's quotes:
It has nothing to do with loose fuses. I've never seen a fuse that was manufactured so poorly as to not fit in its socket, if it was you would feel it when inserting it. This is 100% an issue cause by worn out brushes in the blower motor.

Binjammin

02-05-2015, 07:31 PM

Jeebus. I had a fire under my hood this morning. Then I drove like 20 miles afterwards on the car. I'll pull the blower fuse for now. I had actually paid the mechanic $75 to diagnose why my blower was not working months ago, and they just replace the fuse and sent me on my way. Should they have done some double checking to ensure this would not happen? I am on the phone with Progressive now, when I call to pay, someone answers immediately, when I call with a claim, 5 minutes on hold...

So I need to buy a new blower motor? Everything else is running fine... Wow, those photos of the car on fire are scary... We'll see what Progressive says...

If you had a fire you should stop driving the car. You should also figure out what caused the fire. Be glad you're safe, that's the only important thing.

Binjammin

02-05-2015, 08:42 PM

Will do, it is parked and will remain as such until it gets towed to the mechanic if insurance covers it, or I'll start running through the test-list on Saturday, too much volume w/ work to complicate my brain on it today or tomorrow. Hopefully it is covered as the damage these issues cause seems as though it could be extensive, bordering on totaling out vehicles extensive, and given this one has the relatively new motor (the nikasil/alusil situation), awesome rust-free body, and 5sp, I'd hate to total it as finding another like it would be unlikely...

If this really were a blower motor fire it will total the car. The value on the car is virtually nothing, replacing a wiring harness and blower motor plus labor won't be cheap from their point of view, I doubt they'll write an estimate on junkyard parts.

raceyBMW

02-06-2015, 01:20 PM

Binjammin

02-06-2015, 01:56 PM

Wait, you actually ended up having a fire? What did it damage? Just because you had a little smoke doesn't mean it was actually on fire, but the blower motor is obviously on its way out, getting close to failing and potentially causing bigger issues. If you don't want it totaled don't go to insurance unless its undriveable. Replace the blower motor. You do not have a sword, you have a blower motor resistor (by the gas pedal on the left side of the center stack, usually capped in blue). That is the most likely cause of some of the fan speeds not working. Replace the microfilter while you are at it, can't hurt, and clean out any debris sitting in the channel with the blower resister/microfilter. You know how they say "where there's smoke, there's fire"? There may not have been flames, but in an e34, if you have smoke from a blower motor issue, it's the insulation cooking off the wiring. Usually that ends up with wires burning into each other, which leads to the car going up in flames. I would disconnect the battery on this car and never reconnect it without repairing it.

raceyBMW

02-06-2015, 03:05 PM

You know how they say "where there's smoke, there's fire"? There may not have been flames, but in an e34, if you have smoke from a blower motor issue, it's the insulation cooking off the wiring. Usually that ends up with wires burning into each other, which leads to the car going up in flames. I would disconnect the battery on this car and never reconnect it without repairing it.

Completely agree with this, I was just more curious why he is going after insurance money if there wasn't any damage (yet).

e34lovinghater

02-06-2015, 06:43 PM

I'm not going after anything really, but if I am going to pay the mechanic to check it out anyways, as on something like this I am not going to trust my amateur skills when a mistake could literally make me go up in flames, and I have comprehensive, then I may as well have a claims rep there to see if I am covered as I've been paying double for years to keep collision and comprehensive active so I am covered by "acts of god" such as fire, plus any accident I can ever remember being in I was found at-fault, even when I got T-boned, so I always go with collision/comprehensive. If my last e39 had comprehensive with the previous owner it wouldn't have had annoying hail damage all over the trunk. Actually it probably would have been totaled and I never would have owned it... The way errors like this work apparently is the mechanical error is not covered, as they never are, but resulting burn damage would be.

Thanks for the info racey BMW on the blower resistor, that is around a $50 part, much preferable to the many hundreds of the "sword". So the "sword" is in different e34 models then, the one with it I saw was a 525 I believe, as I've owned now an e34 535, 525, and 530, and I remember when I sat in my 525, and the one with the sword, I was totally bummed by the lack of wood paneling. Though I have seen a '94 525 with wood paneling so maybe they changed it later on.

Side note: Does anyone here have a light hued wood shifting knob for an e34 for sale? This 530i I have is with the black plastic-like material one, I'd prefer the wood. I have an extra thermostat, an extra radio-face, extra tie rod-end, and a few other parts I could trade towards it, or just buy it. There are a few on eBay but every accessory I've ever bought there was garbage.

Binjammin

02-06-2015, 08:19 PM

I wish I had money and you were close, I'd pick that thing up as an awesome parts car.

e34lovinghater

02-08-2015, 03:43 AM

The appt. with the mechanic is set for Monday so we'll be doing a "pull-a-part inspection" he called it to determine what went down. I've done more research and will check a few things; are the electronics on the 530i the same as 525i's? It seems the cause of these issues varies from electrical box to blower motor depending on the model. I saw a cherry red "Dinan", had never heard of it before, that had Salem witch-trials like flame damage in the cockpit. For mine I'll get to learn how to access the cabin filter at least during the pull-apart, and re-attach the glove-box I'd assume. The gf is on a family outing so I've got a black '08 automatic Beetle, and it has some interesting kick.

Binjammin

02-08-2015, 09:36 AM

The blower motor wiring will all be the same. If you have a burned up fuse 19 in your fusebox, you're gonna have a bad time.

e34lovinghater

02-08-2015, 07:56 PM

I honestly have yet to check the fuse box, I didn't want to ruin my weekend :) I think I'll save the surprise for when I'm with the mechanic...

Binjammin

02-08-2015, 08:18 PM

I honestly have yet to check the fuse box, I didn't want to ruin my weekend :) I think I'll save the surprise for when I'm with the mechanic...

I would go check that now to tell you the truth. Is he coming out to your car?

R12RT

02-09-2015, 11:04 AM

Way to hang in there on the E34. Just ingested the entire saga this am. I was worried there for a while that a intervention was imminent. And your GF is still taking to you and even loading you her car - very smooth!

So now what's with the fan and what's it smoking - has it been to Colorado?

:eatpop:

e34lovinghater

02-11-2015, 12:38 PM

Yeah I was lucky with the gf, she was not a happy camper with the car work, and it was oddly cold and windy for Texas during the weeks that was going down.

I wish the car had been on some CO green, then maybe it would chill out on needing repairs.

Got the mechanic feedback. The resistor shorted, igniting the cabin filter, nothing else smoke, fire, or heat damaged, no insurance coverage, the mechanic is charging me $200, $60 in parts and $140 in labor, that seems ridiculously high yes? He's saying it is like .4 hours just to change the resistor, and the cabin filter is like another .8-1.2 hours at $100/hr, then the resistor is like $40 and the cabin filter $15. It's either the $200 fixed or he wants $100 just for taking it apart to inspect it. Totally annoying. I cancelled comprehensive/collision as I thought I had a $200 deductible, but it is $500, so paying like $500/year for a $500 deductible is not a wise investment given that they'd probably total the vehicle out, if ever, at like $2K, and not cover any of the extras in there.

This car is really testing the limits of my patience and wallet. The passenger side window is still broken too so that'll be another $125 in parts that I will install myself... The powerball here is over $400 million, perhaps I'll go win that...

e34lovinghater

02-11-2015, 08:09 PM

Alright, got the car back from the mechanic, he ended up giving me a small break in the labor so I'll buy him some beer. I had him swap in a 20amp fuse instead of the 30, a 15amp one blew out on testing. New resistor, new cabin filter, new fuse, and that's it. No wiring damage, blower motor seems fine and is spinning freely they said. The fire was limited to a 1x1in square on the cabin filter, so I was getting the black smoke from that paper in the vents and it seemed as though the fire was far worse than it actually was.

I addressed the rough idle too, as it had actually stalled on me at a light leaving the mechanic as the skippy idle dropped down to like 300rpm then it died. I opened up the hood, took off the engine cover, then removed that steel bullet-like unit, what is that, I keep calling it the MAF, am I correct on that? I blew and wiped off the electronic insert point, then sprayed air-intake cleaner through the channel on each side of which the hoses connect and wiped it out, removing a good amount of black dust or grease. Removed the grommet from the silver bullet, used a rubber mallet to hammer it onto the intake perfectly flush, re-installed the silver bullet then re-assembled the rest, used a zip-tie to keep the rubber around it in place until I get a new one as the nubs have fallen off, and the idle is now steady at around 500-600rpm, no shuddering, no shaking: smooth. The grommet was unevenly seated on the bullet and the intake, not flush upon inspection, at all, and the hose attached to it from the air filter was off-center. Crazy how little things like that can affect the performance so obviously, my friends who know nothing of cars said mine sounded like it was struggling as it idled in the drive, so it was definitely noticeable...

What is MAF cleaner good for? The picture I saw on the spray can was of some rectangular looking computer chip, is that just the part where the electronic connector goes onto the silver bullet? Can I use this air intake spray on that, or is it something different? The mechanic told me to use the air intake spray on the chamber of the part, but here Binjammin was telling me to use the MAF spray, so I'm a bit confused on this. I now have 4 different spray cans in the bag, compressed air, silicone-based grease remover spray, air intake spray, and 3m sticky spray, and maybe I need MAF spray?

I'll order a new grommet and rubber housing/strap that goes around the silver bullet from the dealer and get those on to ensure it is solid, but for now this is working. On the passenger side window I just lowered the regulator halfway and will be doing it ghetto style until I order the new regulator. Any opinions on BMW or aftermarket on that?

This forum is fantastic by the way, thanks to whomever put it up and regulates, and for all the knowledge and cool folks that participate, meaning you. :)

Binjammin

02-11-2015, 09:46 PM