Timing chain and guides! Save or salvage

[eddieb022000]

Honestly feel like my pet is at the vet with cancer and I need to decide if I pay $$$ to save her. What started last night as what I thought was a frayed belt turns out to be a majors issue with my timing chain. My mechanic ran out immediately and told me to turn off the car. He is being very reasonable quoting only 3200 for labor and parts - 35 hr job by the book.

Question is, is she worth saving. I love the car and I put all new suspension last yr, brakes 2 yrs ago and all new tires prob 10k miles ago... So he pretty much guaranteed me if I do the job I can get another 50k out of the car and engine, but I am always leery of throwing more money at a car with 190k miles.

Any thoughts from guys who have been in the situation? I was looking to get a 2011 or 2012 535 at some point anyway but I do love this car!

[Evilyeti]

If the car is not a worthless pile of junk, who cares about miles, actual condition is what matters as many parts probably have been replaced more than once by now anyway. The better question is, do you want to drive this car or do you want something else?

[eddieb022000]

I do love the car, and I love that my insurance is 50 bucks a month, but it am leaning towards trading up and exterior is showing some rust spots... In good condition I wonder what I could sell it for?

[pumpedTSI]

never came across a car yet that had rust and that I'd want to save.....just my 02....the rust you cant see is likely twice what you can see..

[Evilyeti]

Must be nice living in that warm climate :D
Around here it would be almost impossible to find an E38 without any rust at all.

[pumpedTSI]

LOL.......ONE of the good things.....downside is paint fade/headliner droop etc......but yep, rust aint an issue.

[ryanpeter]

I cooked my motor a few weeks ago. Overheated.

I love my car, same situation...

Almost every part has been replaced, radiator, expansion tank, water pump, alternator, maf, pcv, complete front and rear Meyle hd suspension, kido coilovers, alpina rep lip, new headlight lenses and plenty more.

My car is in excellent condition. I hand wash it frequently and pay to have it polished/sealed etc.(I suck in that department)

This coming Sunday, I travel with my pickup to go get my new motor. Heck of a deal found me, I'm pretty happy.

I guess I'm losing track of what I'm trying to say.

If you love your car like I do, fix it?

http://i1286.photobucket.com/albums/a608/Ryan_Peter/C35F18DC-AD15-40C0-B8B6-E7E3D7C6617E_zpsfmov5cik.jpg (http://s1286.photobucket.com/user/Ryan_Peter/media/C35F18DC-AD15-40C0-B8B6-E7E3D7C6617E_zpsfmov5cik.jpg.html)

[mschanze]

Wow, I'm sitting in the same place you are. Was quoted $2800. I've been sitting on this for about 3 months now. The parts to do the job are around $400; I'm fortunate that an independent shop owner I've gotten know over the years said he'd get me the parts at his cost and loan me a several of the special tools. Just need to dig in...

[eddieb022000]

It's a shame to junk but u have to cry uncle at some point - otherwise it will always be something... I should be able to get something for it... It's a true Short body sport with everything replaced... The lure of the new 535 is calling

[Evilyeti]

Can't imagine desiring something with a lot higher potential repair costs if this is bad already.

[eddieb022000]

Decision time. How much is the car worth as is?
Upgraded mk4 nav with wide screen
Short body sport, silver on black
190k miles, new tires, suspension, brakes
Known issue of timing chain

And how much will same car be worth if I do the service and bring it back?

Maybe I do the work and drive it around til I can sell it for reasonable $ to put towards a new 5 series

[Flying740iL]

Depends on what you want. If you want an E38, fix it. Otherwise, scrap it.

It will always be something. I doubt if a newer 5 will be any more reliable, it'll just depreciate more.

[Cobrajet429]

Car is worth ~$1000 to possibly $1500 the way it sits. Fixed it might be worth $4000 considering you said it was starting to show rust. These cars will never make financial sense to own, but if you like it, fix it and take care of that rust before it gets any worse. If it was me if fix it, but I don't think if pay somebody to do it.

[eddieb022000]

Latest - more than a few knowledgable people have told me that being low on oil would cause same symptom, to just try to top off the oil level. I'm actually pissed as my mechanic has my car as is closed for the weekend, but the fact that he didn't even try to top off the oil, makes me think that it's a logical first step...

[Cobrajet429]

OK, first question obviously is what are your symptoms? If it sounds like a top end rattle at start up that goes away, then yes it could just be your tensioner or low/sludgy oil. If it is a loud rattle that doesn't go away, it is probably your guides. If your mechanic is decent, it is an obvious difference.

[eddieb022000]

The tapping rattle doesn't go away. Mechanic is very good and I expect him to know the difference, but I am shocked that he didn't so much as check the oil... He said 100% it's timing chain... What I would like to know is that if I top it off with oil will that solve my issue

[kevine30]

I'd get it rid of it..

[Kurt C]

If you have the desire, the time, the tools, and the ability...my vote would be to fix it yourself. It's labor-intensive but not impossible. Working at a leisurely pace it took me less than 30 hours, over the course of two weeks, to rebuild my VANOS units, replace my guides, chains, chain tensioner, cam to cam tensioners, oil cyclone separator, and a few other "since I'm here" parts. I find this work relaxing and theraputic and enjoyed most every minute of it - except for installing the new seals in the VANOS units, that almost made me cry at times.

If you can't feel the delta of time, money, and desire, then move on and get another BMW that makes you feel good.

Oh, and with a car that looks as sweet as ryanpeter's E38, I don't think he had a choice but to replace the motor.

[Cobrajet429]

If you have the desire, the time, the tools, and the ability...my vote would be to fix it yourself. It's labor-intensive but not impossible. Working at a leisurely pace it took me less than 30 hours, over the course of two weeks, to rebuild my VANOS units, replace my guides, chains, chain tensioner, cam to cam tensioners, oil cyclone separator, and a few other "since I'm here" parts. I find this work relaxing and theraputic and enjoyed most every minute of it - except for installing the new seals in the VANOS units, that almost made me cry at times. If you can't feel the delta of time, money, and desire, then move on and get another BMW that makes you feel good. Oh, and with a car that looks as sweet as ryanpeter's E38, I don't think he had a choice but to replace the motor.

I agree with that almost completely. The only part I disagree with is that if you don't have the time, money, and desire to fix your own cars, to go find a non BMW. These are great cars, but they take the right owner willing to deal with the extra work or an owner with whom money is no object and doesn't mind throwing thousands inn repairs.

[robo740il]

The tapping rattle doesn't go away. Mechanic is very good and I expect him to know the difference, but I am shocked that he didn't so much as check the oil... He said 100% it's timing chain... What I would like to know is that if I top it off with oil will that solve my issue
Did your mechanic pull any codes? Drop the lower oil pan and look for the telltale signs of the plastic pieces from the timing guides. I doubt adding oil will help. I would not drive the car until codes we're read and the oil pan was checked.

[GSXRliterbikz]

If it was low enough on oil to cause an issue with the tensioner, you would have warning lights for low oil pressure. I've seen these cars down 2 qts with all the warning lights on and they still sounded fine.

[Mayorchuck]

I think it comes down to what you want to drive going forward. Your not going to find a Sport with the guides done, along with other work you have recently done, for $3200 elsewhere. You know the car inside and out. I don't see why you can't get another 100-150k out of the engine. Transmission would be my only consideration.

[M I C H A E L]

^ Have to agree here with chuck. I would fix it. It looks like a really nice car.

[armiller1]

Wow, I'm sitting in the same place you are. Was quoted $2800. I've been sitting on this for about 3 months now. The parts to do the job are around $400; I'm fortunate that an independent shop owner I've gotten know over the years said he'd get me the parts at his cost and loan me a several of the special tools. Just need to dig in...

What parts only cost $400? Are you referring to a timing chain guide job? The guides alone are about that much. If the VANOS needs to be replaced, parts will be more like 2500. 1200-1500 without the VANOS

[GSXRliterbikz]

What parts only cost $400? Are you referring to a timing chain guide job? The guides alone are about that much. If the VANOS needs to be replaced, parts will be more like 2500. 1200-1500 without the VANOS

That's what I was thinking. Min. of 6-800 if you don't dig into the intake area.

[eddieb022000]

He didn't pull codes and I didn't notice bc I have check engine from replacing the cats... Also I am not sure my low oil light works bc I have been down quarts before and it never came on...

I am going to try top off with oil and have him pull codes...

[dennybbl]

I had the same issue. I had no time to do the repair myself and my back was still sore from fixing some cooling issues. I sold it for a grand, about what it is worth. I had some rust starting and that was what pushed me to sell. Wish I would have kept it though. Driving a civic now. Sucks.

[iDreadnaught]

Not worth it from a financial perspective unless you're a DIY guy.

FWIW, I bought a running M62TU from a rear ended 540i for $150 + $280 shipping. You could get a running used engine for less than that quote... although I'd do the guides regardless on the used engine just because.

[rahee006]

Decision time. How much is the car worth as is?
Upgraded mk4 nav with wide screen
Short body sport, silver on black
190k miles, new tires, suspension, brakes
Known issue of timing chain

And how much will same car be worth if I do the service and bring it back?

Maybe I do the work and drive it around til I can sell it for reasonable $ to put towards a new 5 series
DONT JUNK IT ( if its about the value, part it out )
this can be my 4th BMW!! How many rust spots do u see?
I'l buy it off. thanks.

[eddieb022000]

I don't have the time or willingness to part it out... I have all my receipts so I am going to see if the mechanic will buy it off me for 2500 since he did all the work and knows how good a car it's been for 10 yrs...

As for the rust spots they are starting on the bottom of the driver and passenger doors and a bit at the bottom of the trunk...

[zaherr]

I would fix it. Timing chain is about 16 hours . I did my vanos and timing chain on my 540i and rented the tools online.

[dcruz10]

Dont usually read all post and if already said - forgive and forget. There is not a car out there u can get comparable to the $3200 u will spend to get this pet back. Spend the money and enjoy the hell out of her!!!

[Cobrajet429]

I don't have the time or willingness to part it out... I have all my receipts so I am going to see if the mechanic will buy it off me for 2500 since he did all the work and knows how good a car it's been for 10 yrs... As for the rust spots they are starting on the bottom of the driver and passenger doors and a bit at the bottom of the trunk...

If you could find somebody to give you $2500, take it before they have a chance to change their minds. I don't find that very likely though. Best of luck to you, but like I tell everybody, these cars are only worth having if you can work on them yourself or if money is no object to you,

[eddieb022000]

I agree before this timing chain issue, I would sell this car for 5k bc there is nothing comparable I could get for the money... But I ran thru my spreadsheet of ALL my maint since I ever owned the car and excluding oil changes I have only spent 6700$ over the last 10 yrs and 130k I have owned it... Most of the expensive items were fairly routine, and at 3k for this timing chain will be the most expensive by far and comes towards the end of the cars life. I hope someone gives it a good home bc it runs awesome with new suspension and brakes... Hopefully whoever buys it does the work and enjoys and awesome machine...

[Flying740iL]

Hmm. I've probably spent $2k in the past 6 months in parts on this thing, but I bought it from people who hadn't done very good maintenance.

[eddieb022000]

If anyone is interested in parts let me know... The easiest thing I can think of is the widescreen nav

[Cobrajet429]

That is your best bet if you have the time and are willing to deal with it. I am scrapping the parts car I bought after selling just a few parts off of it, but that is mainly because I am having to pay storage on it every month and there is very little interest in parts off of it ,

[eddieb022000]

I would think the M- par with new tires are worth at least 1G
Mk4 wide screen should be at least another 400, rest is gravy...

[Cobrajet429]

Yep, sounds about right if wheels are in good shape with good tires. $400 is what I sold the wide screen nav system for and probably could have got $1K for the MPars since they had practically new tires. Do that, save some stuff that goes out a lot like window regulators and send the rest to the scrapper. I thought I would have sold the 5hp24 by now, but nobody wants to buy a tranny they can't see running so it is getting crushed as well.

[eddieb022000]

Is it worth try to throw some money at a new timing spring tensioner? That seems to be an easy DIY... My mechanic said don't bother, it's a pretty big rattle and it doesn't go away. Checked the oil level and it's completely full of oil... He thinks there are 2 options, junk or fix, but he's kinda a boob

[GSXRliterbikz]

Is it worth try to throw some money at a new timing spring tensioner? That seems to be an easy DIY... My mechanic said don't bother, it's a pretty big rattle and it doesn't go away. Checked the oil level and it's completely full of oil... He thinks there are 2 options, junk or fix, but he's kinda a boob

He's right.

[eddieb022000]

Why do u say that just curious? Would a bad tensioner not cause the same noise? It's a 58$ part - not even wortha. Try?

[iDreadnaught]

If it was loud enough for him to run out and tell you to turn off the car, I think it's beyond being revived by a new tensioner. You most likely have old nylon guide pieces swimming around at the bottom of your oil pan.

[clivesay]

If it was loud enough for him to run out and tell you to turn off the car, I think it's beyond being revived by a new tensioner. You most likely have old nylon guide pieces swimming around at the bottom of your oil pan.

I was just gonna say, why not drop the pan and stop all the speculation?

[GSXRliterbikz]

Why do u say that just curious? Would a bad tensioner not cause the same noise? It's a 58$ part - not even wortha. Try?

"If" it failed, the only failure that can happen is the spring. The spring does nothing when the engine is running. Oil pressure keeps tension. The spring is there to keep tension when it's off.

[eddieb022000]

Got it, Ty - guess it's a parts car unless I actually think I can tackle a DIY that big by myself

[GSXRliterbikz]

If you have a way to tow it, you could bring it up here. You buy parts and I charge a flat fee. Usually ends up costing under 2k

[eddieb022000]

Up where? It's 30 hr job, no?

[GSXRliterbikz]

Up where? It's 30 hr job, no?


Nh. I'm about 5 hrs from Manhattan.
Book is 26ish hrs. I've got it down to about 12. 10 is my best time.

[rahee006]

That is your best bet if you have the time and are willing to deal with it. I am scrapping the parts car I bought after selling just a few parts off of it, but that is mainly because I am having to pay storage on it every month and there is very little interest in parts off of it ,
do you have black leather seats? i remember you saying urs are grey. if you dont mind, do you think its worth buying second hand speed sensors? or going with oem. ?

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Got it, Ty - guess it's a parts car unless I actually think I can tackle a DIY that big by myself
i believe you should give it a shot, everyone here will definitely help you out. worse comes worse? if you cant fix it. part it out. right?

[Cobrajet429]

do you have black leather seats? i remember you saying urs are grey. if you dont mind, do you think its worth buying second hand speed sensors? or going with oem. ?

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i believe you should give it a shot, everyone here will definitely help you out. worse comes worse? if you cant fix it. part it out. right?


Per forum rules, let's not turn this into a part out thread, you can PM me if you need anything, but I will answer the question on the speed sensor here. That is NOT a part that I would advise buying used. If you have a free one to try until you get a new one fine, but it's not a part I would be willing to sell because I have no way of knowing how long it would last.

[M I C H A E L]

do you have black leather seats? i remember you saying urs are grey. if you dont mind, do you think its worth buying second hand speed sensors? or going with oem. ?

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i believe you should give it a shot, everyone here will definitely help you out. worse comes worse? if you cant fix it. part it out. right?

Oem sensors. Others are junk and truly always fail.

[eddieb022000]

It looks like the kit can be bought for $500 on fcp it's not all OEM but still seems like it will do
http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-timing-chain-kit-540i-740i-740il-x5-oem-11311741746kit

I'm thinking of offering the mechanic 1500 cash see if he will take it

[Flying740iL]

Most of those parts, if not genuine BMW, are the OEM supplier, i.e. same thing but without the markup for coming in a box that says "BMW" on it.