I've got the bug again...

[blackknight530i]

Hey guys,

So, as many of you know, I swapped a S62 motor and 6-speed into my 01 740i. Many of you also know that I have an immaculate condition 03 530iA that I use as my DD. Now, I've been throwing this crazy idea around for a little while and I figured I'd see about getting some input.

I'm considering taking my 42k mile S62 and 6-speed out of my 740i and transplanting it into my 530i and taking my very good running 176k mile M54b30 and installing it into the 740i.

I'm sure many of you will say that it's just ludicrous to downgrade the engine in the 740i, but here's why I want to. The 7 is a comfortable cruiser and everything that I've read about the 728's in other countries says that the I6 is more than capable for the car, and since BMW never put the M54b30 into one, I figured I might not only be the first to do so, but that it would be an improvement over the 728. That way, the long trips to and from my parents' house in Alabama could be done with good gas mileage and comfort, while my daily commute in the 5 could be fun and quick.

Ok, so now that I've gotten the concept out there, here's what I'm thinking in order to do it. The 728i uses different motor mount brackets, but the same motor mounts as the 740i and the subframe is the same part number, so I would need the brackets from a 728i in order to mount the M54. I don't think they are the same brackets as the 528i, since the I6's and V8's had different subframes, so I'll likely have to source them from Europe. Once that is done, the wiring is basically already done since the M5 and 530i wiring is pretty much identical in the E-Box. The fuel pump and regulator I put in the 740i would be transferred to the 530i and vice versa. The fuel line has already been moved from the passenger side in the engine compartment to the driver side, so that should be fine as well. I would need to source an air box for a 728i as well, but that could also be dealt with using a cold air intake or something as well. I would likely transfer the radiator and fan shroud from the 530i over to the 740i and I should be able to use 728i heater hoses connecting to the back of the engine due to the relocated heater core. I would likely keep the M5 steering box since it's already there and from what I've seen, the 728i has the steering box rather than a steering rack. I will need to actually wire up the DM-TL that I've already retrofitted in order to keep the codes from popping up, but that won't be hard (one wire to run from E-Box to the rear left quarter panel).

Now for the other part of the swap. My 530i is in damn-near mint condition, but it needs a bit more power. It's typically the one I take on my mountain drives with the CCA and it's my general fun car, so it'd be nice if it had the power to match that. I've got more grip than the M54 knows what to do with and I can barely get the tires to chirp due to the massive Michelin 275/30/19's on the back even with DSC off. So here's how I would likely do the swap. I would raid Trevor's donor M5 for the subframe, exhaust, front springs and strut mounts, oil filter housing bracket, radiator/fan shroud/expansion tank, clutch pedal/master cylinder, clutch hydraulics, etc. (with his permission of course, and probably some money). I should have basically everything I need and could probably use a lot from the 7, but I'm debating on whether or not I want to keep the 7 a 6-speed, so I couldn't take the clutch pedal and such if that's the case. I would need to send my MS43 DME to DUDMD for virginizing it so it will work with the e38 EWS, but that shouldn't be a problem. The MSS52 is already cracked and I can do whatever I want with it, obviously.

Another thing I would need to deal with, is differentials. The 740i diff could be swapped into the e39 by just changing the rear cover to a 540i cover, but then I still need different output flanges to fit the axles I would hopefully also get from Trevor. On the 7, I could swap my 530i diff into it, but would need to not only relocate the rear diff mounts the same way Trevor did in order to mount the M5 diff in his 7, then I would need to also get 728i axles, which wouldn't be easy I don't imagine. The other option is to keep the 740i diff in the 7 and get a M5 or 540i diff for the 5. I would still need new axles, but they would be much easier to source. The driveshaft for the 5 would just be a 540i or M5 driveshaft depending on the diff, and the 7's driveshaft would probably the current 740i shaft that I already had lengthened. If I go with a 6-speed mounted to the M54, it would probably be the spare Getrag S6S 420G I have, once I get the crack in it welded up and an e46 6Mt M3 bellhousing installed, so it would have the correct output flange to mate with the current driveshaft. If I decide to swap the auto tranny as well, I will need to swap the steptronic shifter and make a custom driveshaft to mate with the I6 tranny and V8 diff.

Ok, so that's the idea I've be grinding gears on lately. I obviously already have both engines and the transmissions, so doing some other kind of swap or selling the car and buying another aren't really being considered, unless someone wants to buy the 7 with the S62 for the price I'm thinking it's worth, then all bets are off. If that were the case, I'd sell the 7 and buy another S62 and still go through with the swap on the 5. PM if you're interested in the 7 and are serious :)

Let me know what you guys think!

BK

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Also, I forgot to mention, I'd be going with a muffler delete on the 5, so I wouldn't need to do anything with the spare tire tub (at least not much).

[pumpedTSI]

wow....plenty of time on your hands and luv to work.....youre a good man Charlie Brown...

[blackknight530i]

wow....plenty of time on your hands and luv to work.....youre a good man Charlie Brown...
Lol, I think I could have the 5 done in a weekend if I got a portion of it done ahead of removing the engine.

[pumpedTSI]

Jeez thats pretty quick......I need you as a personal mechanic......now all I need is $$$ to pay you....lol

[blackknight530i]

It helps that I've already done the swap once.

[pizzaman09]

Why would you swap out the S62 into a 530i again? Buy yourself and M5 and save yourself the pain. On top of it, you have a very valuable e38 on your hands, there is certainly someone out there that would love to buy your S62 powered e38.

[007008]

Or leave the 7 alone and buy my m62 and make a 540.

[blackknight530i]

I'm not looking to buy any engines, just looking to rearrange what I've got.

[blackknight530i]

Why would you swap out the S62 into a 530i again? Buy yourself and M5 and save yourself the pain. On top of it, you have a very valuable e38 on your hands, there is certainly someone out there that would love to buy your S62 powered e38.
I'm just saying I've done a s62 swap before, not one into a 530i though.

[M I C H A E L]

I say Nay, Its great how it is!!! and +1 ^ many would buy your 7

[blackknight530i]

I would sell the 7 in an instant if someone offered me what I think it's worth. I just want my near-perfect condition 5 to have more power and a much lower mile engine.

[shanecarmaster1]

I understand you're reasoning, but I think you may feel like you've shortchanged the 7 (and yourself) once you get onto the highway and feel basically no power or torque. I know that a friend of mine has a 2001 325i, and although it has a little less power than your 530i, the thing feels like a safety hazard to accelerate and I couldn't imagine that tiny power in a 7. The 5 is nice with that engine because it sounds sweet, the 5 is lighter (as well as being a lighter engine for weight distribution and tossibility), and you can drive the crap out of it while not disobeying the law as much. I'd say the inline-6 fits the character of the e39 very well, while the S62 makes for the ultimate 7 sleeper/comfy/performance/surpriser car. You may even feel like you've done such an absolute crapload of work and troubleshooting and part buying when you could've had a real M5 or a 540i (or just left well enough alone) and not ruined the e38. I'm not trying to be harsh or anything, just giving my two cents. And plus, what's more lame than seeing a "real" car like a 7 series or an S Class for it to have a lawnmower engine under it? A "real" car deserves a "real" engine.

[blackknight530i]

I see where you're coming from, but the 7 wouldn't be driven hardcore with the I6 and my 7 isn't much heavier than the 5 is. With a 6 speed, I think it would do just fine. Remember, the 7 came with the m52tub28 with less power and torque than the m54b30. I'd actually be interested to hear what the 728i owners think. If they think it's such a slouch, why did they buy one?

I don't take any offense from the comments in this thread. Like I said, it's an idea that's been rattling around for a while and the engine just isn't getting used enough due to the other things that need to be done to the car. Also, the 7 was bought knowing I was saving it due to bad timing guides and suspension neglect.

[miylive]

Why would you swap out the S62 into a 530i again? Buy yourself and M5 and save yourself the pain. On top of it, you have a very valuable e38 on your hands, there is certainly someone out there that would love to buy your S62 powered e38.



This !!! +1

[blackknight530i]

As Trevor can attest, it's not that much pain swapping the S62 into a car that it came in.

[blackknight530i]

Anyways, to those that are saying I have a very valuable e38, what it be worth to you. I know what I want for it, but it would be nice to know if it's in line with what others actually think.

[pizzaman09]

Value would be dependent on the condition of the 740i. How many miles are on the chassis?

If it were a long wheel base, I wouldn't be shy about asking $20k for the car if it has under 80k miles.

Just out of curiosity, what do you think of the M5 steering box swap into the 740? Since I bought my M5, I have felt the e38 has the better steering feel.

[blackknight530i]

The chassis has 192k miles on it, but I've replaced all the control arms, ball joints, steering tie rods, etc. with new meyle HD parts. The struts are going to be replaced with Bilsteins soon and a 750il rear subframe with rear sway bar is on its way.

As far as the M5 steering box feel, it is connected to the mss52 dme and tied to the sport button. It felt great in normal mode, but was very heavy in sport mode. I found the map in the dme code and made a new curve for sport mode that is much better. Now it is just a bit heavier than normal mode.

[shanecarmaster1]

The struts are going to be replaced with Bilsteins soon

This will ruin your ride - take it from my experience. At least, in the rear. I'd go with OEM the first time.

[blackknight530i]

It will be on oe sport springs. I'm not going to spend $250-350 per strut for oe sport struts.

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I just took the 7 out for a drive since I hadn't in about 1.5 weeks or so and... it really is fun to drive! I just wish I had that power in my 5. The torque delivery is just spectacular. I mean, I could sell the 7 and buy a decent M5, but I can't sell my 530i. I wouldn't get anywhere near what it's worth to me and I've done so much to keep it like new that it'd be a shame to get rid of it. The thought of having two E39's though just doesn't really make sense. I told myself I wouldn't buy another car until I could afford a F10 M5, but I just don't know. I do know that having two cars is a blessing and a curse though. It's nice to have a second car when one of them needs work done, but they also both tend to need stuff at the same time.

[psjr]

I have been dying to see an E38 I6 swap thread lately :)
That said, I don't think you should do it to your car since you've already done all the S62 work.

[blackknight530i]

I have been dying to see an E38 I6 swap thread lately :)
That said, I don't think you should do it to your car since you've already done all the S62 work.
Yeah, I hear ya. It's not like I'd be throwing away all the S62 work, just moving it.

[TheLadiesMan]

I think you'd be better off buying an M5. That way, you get the suspension to handle the power, plus the much nicer interior.

What some guy's going locally here in Orlando is swapping in a 2jz gte in his iL. Not sure when he's going to start but if you're going M54 power, you could slap on a small turbo so the car wouldn't be sluggish yet retain the cruising fuel economy.

[blackknight530i]

I think you'd be better off buying an M5. That way, you get the suspension to handle the power, plus the much nicer interior.

What some guy's going locally here in Orlando is swapping in a 2jz gte in his iL. Not sure when he's going to start but if you're going M54 power, you could slap on a small turbo so the car wouldn't be sluggish yet retain the cruising fuel economy.
You're probably right, I should just get a M5. I've just been looking at a bunch of really nice ones in Atlanta on m5board, but I would need to get my price on the 7 and it would suck giving up such a low mileage s62.

Somebody buy my 7 :)

[danb1979]

Personally I'd say you've made your 7 into a unique car and someone will pay you what it's worth as to do the work themselves they'd look at more outlay in the long run!

I have the E38 728i and it's no slouch!

I understand why people think that the L6 is a small engine for the big barges but the car is pulled along very nicely indeed, it's bloomin quick off the line if you floor it and clearly with them being an auto they're off the line and away from most cars easy enough. Mating it to a manual box, I'm not sure of, for me the big 7 is for cruising and smooth journeys, to put a manual into mine would go against the reason why I bought it

I can get up to good speeds on the motorways over here easy enough but at the end of the day our speed limit is 70MPH; going over that slightly is fine but to tonk it way over you're risking getting caught and banned BUT for over-taking; the L6 will soon get to 80-90MPH without any worries and you'll be passed whatever is in your way and back to cruising along smoothly in no time :)

[Nyc Dito]

This will ruin your ride - take it from my experience. At least, in the rear. I'd go with OEM the first time.
+1

[psjr]

Hmmm, Raudi said the same thing, Bilsteins are too harsh in the rear. interesting that it seems a lot of people feel that way.

[Nyc Dito]

ok, this was quick my friend!..enjoy the S62 7, this is one of the FEW!!..

if i were you, id swap in a SC for the 530, then mess with the other things you mentioned, but would keep both motors where they are now...just my .02

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Hmmm, Raudi said the same thing, Bilsteins are too harsh in the rear. interesting that it seems a lot of people feel that way.

I had them on my car for less than 1500 miles before i took them back off. i Went to BOGE/SACHS non-sport struts since i wasnt able to find 'Sport' BOGE/SACHS for the E38. Night and Day difference, i enjoy my daily drives once again. I kept the Eibachs.

[blackknight530i]

ok, this was quick my friend!..enjoy the S62 7, this is one of the FEW!!..

if i were you, id swap in a SC for the 530, then mess with the other things you mentioned, but would keep both motors where they are now...just my .02

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I had them on my car for less than 1500 miles before i took them back off. i Went to BOGE/SACHS non-sport struts since i wasnt able to find 'Sport' BOGE/SACHS for the E38. Night and Day difference, i enjoy my daily drives once again. I kept the Eibachs.
Are you saying you went with non-sport struts with sport springs? Does that work ok?

[Nyc Dito]

Are you saying you went with non-sport struts with sport springs? Does that work ok?


yessir!..Shane did the same as well. (i have Eibachs, he has B&G/UUC)

Just to clarify for others, my car IS a sport. When i went with Bilsteins/Eibach, i obviously chucked the old sport struts (they were leaking and busted). After about 1000 miles of driving, i was getting tired of how hard the Bilsteins were hitting (no, they werent blown). The streets here arent great, pot holes and craters are normal. You guys with good roads are blessed.

Anyhow, decided to swap out the Bilsteins. Didnt want to spend almost $900-$1000 on OEM Struts, so i ordered Boge/Sachs for the NON Sport 740 (non edc). i am SO much happier now. It may not perform as well as bilsteins in corners etc, but i dont normally go canyon carving in my E38.

[blackknight530i]

Nice to know you can do that. I'd like to maintain the comfort, just want it a bit lowered.

[Nyc Dito]

Nice to know you can do that. I'd like to maintain the comfort, just want it a bit lowered.

same here man, thats why i was so upset when i first did the job. Comfort level is back now, so im good lol....live and learn.

[blackknight530i]

Ok, so now I need to cancel my bid-snipe of a set of bilsteins for $289. I'll let someone else get that deal.

[blackknight530i]

Personally I'd say you've made your 7 into a unique car and someone will pay you what it's worth as to do the work themselves they'd look at more outlay in the long run!

I have the E38 728i and it's no slouch!

I understand why people think that the L6 is a small engine for the big barges but the car is pulled along very nicely indeed, it's bloomin quick off the line if you floor it and clearly with them being an auto they're off the line and away from most cars easy enough. Mating it to a manual box, I'm not sure of, for me the big 7 is for cruising and smooth journeys, to put a manual into mine would go against the reason why I bought it

I can get up to good speeds on the motorways over here easy enough but at the end of the day our speed limit is 70MPH; going over that slightly is fine but to tonk it way over you're risking getting caught and banned BUT for over-taking; the L6 will soon get to 80-90MPH without any worries and you'll be passed whatever is in your way and back to cruising along smoothly in no time :)
Yours was the comment I was looking for when posting this. I figured the m54 would have more than enough power for the 7, plus the engine is lighter than the m62 and certainly s62, so it wouldn't be quite as bad as everyone thinks. You're right about keeping it an auto for cruising, plus it would be my steptronic that would get swapped. I've easily been able to get my 530i over 100mph, so I don't think it would struggle to do that in the 7 if I chose to do that.

Anyways, I'm gonna keep this idea rattling for a while. Maybe once I get a proper strut setup in my 7 I will feel differently.

[Flying740iL]

I think ultimately your 7 won't be worth much because of the high miles. As you said, you saved it from the scrapper. To the right buyer, maybe $10k, but I'd doubt it to go for more than that.

You've built a really unique 7, and this one is neat and has some desirability. If you put a 6 in it, it will have no desirability and be worthless. I also think you'll be unhappy with the low performance 7, having tasted the S62 form.

I'd say find a way to make the 5 more fun on its own. You could always try selling your 7, buy another, then do a new S62 swap into the 5 and put that 6 into the new 7.

[Evilyeti]

I don't see much point in swapping stuff around since the S62 is available in the E39 anyway.

But a M57 swap would be pretty unique on that side of the pond. But i guess it's hard to come by all the parts needed.
A M57 can easily make good power. Like one guy here got 180 kw(~240 hp) and 600 Nm(~440 foot pounds) from the wheels of his early model E46 330d with just a tune, egr delete, decat and a turbo from a E60 530d.

[Flying740iL]

A big difference between a turbo diesel and a naturally aspirated 6 for torque potential. I would be all for a turbo diesel swap in the E38.

[Nyc Dito]

...OR, sell the 7 WITH the S62, get a 750 E38, THEN swap the M73 INTO the 5, and the 6cyl into that 7....BOOM... youre welcome =)

[psjr]

I was gonna say just buy a 750 and unplug one coil...

[M I C H A E L]

I was gonna say just buy a 750 and unplug one coil...

huh?

[blackknight530i]

huh?
To have a 6 cylinder motor :)

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If I end up selling the 7, it will be to get a proper facelift E39 M5 with hopefully low miles. I might even eventually sell the 5 if that happens. I know, I said I'd never do that, but it really depends on what I could get for it selling only to an enthusiast that understands what I've put into it. If I were to only be offered $6-7k for the 5, it won't get sold. I know it has high miles, but there's not a single person who's sat in it that didn't think it only had 50k miles. The leather is less worn than cars with 40-50k miles and the same goes for the rest of the interior. I couldn't find a nicer car for $6-7k so I'll just keep it. It's still cheaper to insure than the older 7.

[danb1979]

Yours was the comment I was looking for when posting this. I figured the m54 would have more than enough power for the 7, plus the engine is lighter than the m62 and certainly s62, so it wouldn't be quite as bad as everyone thinks. You're right about keeping it an auto for cruising, plus it would be my steptronic that would get swapped. I've easily been able to get my 530i over 100mph, so I don't think it would struggle to do that in the 7 if I chose to do that.

Anyways, I'm gonna keep this idea rattling for a while. Maybe once I get a proper strut setup in my 7 I will feel differently.

Yeah; I've had mine over 100MPH (on a private road of course ;) ) easy enough and it'll go higher; just I had no need to. Just wanted to see what it could get to within a short space, in S and foot down HARD! :D

[Trasportador]

I was gonna say just buy a 750 and unplug one coil...

Hahahaha.

[M I C H A E L]

To have a 6 cylinder motor :)

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If I end up selling the 7, it will be to get a proper facelift E39 M5 with hopefully low miles. I might even eventually sell the 5 if that happens. I know, I said I'd never do that, but it really depends on what I could get for it selling only to an enthusiast that understands what I've put into it. If I were to only be offered $6-7k for the 5, it won't get sold. I know it has high miles, but there's not a single person who's sat in it that didn't think it only had 50k miles. The leather is less worn than cars with 40-50k miles and the same goes for the rest of the interior. I couldn't find a nicer car for $6-7k so I'll just keep it. It's still cheaper to insure than the older 7.

Oh okay. Yeah I gotcha. :)

[Flying740iL]

I like the V12 in the 5 idea. That would be unique! And get the spiffy 750 interior.

[blackknight530i]

I like the V12 in the 5 idea. That would be unique! And get the spiffy 750 interior.
It's been done before, but it would be pretty cool. So, an e39 554i and a 730il with uber luxury package. I like it.

[psjr]

It's been done before, but it would be pretty cool. So, an e39 554i and a 730il with uber luxury package. I like it.

That actually does sound pretty fun.

[blackknight530i]

Only problem is that there is no S62 involved.

[Flying740iL]

It's been done before, but it would be pretty cool. So, an e39 554i and a 730il with uber luxury package. I like it.

I figured you'd not be the first, but that really would make a cool package. Make sure to mate the V12 to a manual trans somehow for the ultimate in cool.

[blackknight530i]

I smell a Csi trans swap, not easy to come by.

[blackknight530i]

Also, for all those thinking the m54 isn't powerful enough for the 7, just remember they put the same engine with x-drive in a 4800lb X5 that has no problem accelerating just fine.

[Das Leg]

Sounds like a cool idea, keep the 5er stock looking and it will be a real sleeper at that. If and when my 750 dies I'll transplant the interior to a 728 and transplant a M50 into the 728 and turbo charge the hell out of it ;D

[daytonatrbo]

Sell both of your cars as is, and get a minty facelift M5. Save yourself a ton of work and come out even or ahead on money.

I know doing the swap is fun, but its also a lot of ....work.

My 325xi has just barely enough power for what it is. Yeah it out accelerates econoboxes, and yeah its still a nice ride, but its lacking any real thrust. I think you will find the 730i to be similar, not really bad, just not that good.