My Euro Exhaust Epic (Long)

[rmorin1249]

After searching and talking to multiple dealers I placed an order in May for all of the components to replace my entire exhaust system from the headers back from my local dealer at a nice discount. Last week, the parts manager calls and tells me that BMWNA is refusing to allow any "emission" related Euro parts to be delivered to the US through their dealers. He said he has worked in the parts department since 1985 and this is the first time he has run into this problem. He called BMWNA, sent them my registration to prove the car was legally registered but still they said the parts would not be permitted to be shipped to the US.

Not one to give up that easy I resumed my search and found another dealer who thinks he can get the parts. He works up a price, it is about 7% higher than the first dealer but still not unreasonable. I am waiting for the final price including shipping. I thanked the first dealer for his efforts and told him I found another dealer who said he will order the parts. The first dealer laughed and said when the order is placed the mufflers will be blocked but wished my good luck.

In the meantime I took my car to 3 local muffler shops and each one said pretty much the same thing, "no way we can fit any of our components on your car not enough room, you need to use factory components. If you can get them we will be happy to install them."

Another forum member reminded me of a shop about 90 minutes away that specializes in custom exhausts and uses very high quality materials and components, Mandrel Bending Solutions (http://www.mandrelbend.com/). I have an appointment on Monday for them to look at my car and give me an estimate. Based on the pictures from their website I am optimistic that they can design and install a very nice system on my car but at what cost?

I would be interested in the opinion of others. If I can source the OEM components, the cost of materials and installation will probably run about $1300. This is a big IF since I still don't know if I can get the Euro mufflers without ordering them myself from a German vendor. If this is my only option the price goes up to about $1600 as I have to pay in Euros.

If I can get a nice custom setup using high quality stainless pipes and high quality components like Magnaflow at about the same price which one would you select?

The quality of the BMW OEM stuff is pretty good but it is not stainless. Not sure who makes their stuff, I have heard it might be Bosal.

At any rate, I would be interested in any advice or opinions. I am also concerned about noise. If I go with a custom setup, I would like a nice mellow exhaust tone but without any objectionable drone at highway speeds.

I forgot to mention that there is a third option and that is Supersprint. Turner is now the exclusive North American importer for Supersprint. For the components I would need, cost would exceed $1300. Add in the installation and mounting hardware I am back up to over $15500. I'm a bit concerned that their warranty is now only 2 years and they are using a lower grade of stainless compared to what they used to offer. Billy Boat makes only a rear muffler and it has to be modified to work on the Euro cars according to Billy Boat. Without a resonator I think it will be too loud and the cost for the rear muffler alone is around $1250. Adding in a resonator, pipes, hardware and installation again I am way over $1500.

Thoughts?

[Ed Lyerly]

If it were my car, I would go with the custom bent SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler and resonators. Don't leave out the front resonators ..... as many have reported doing so results in the "droning" you are trying to avoid.

[FernandoBunster]

On my car (euro m30 engine) I have the euro down pipes from the engine exhaust manifold to two custom made straight pipes (stainless—where the CAT would reside) attached to a Stebro stainless steel resonator and muffler. I thought to get a OEM center muffler available from http://www.schmiedmann.com/ but I opted for the simpler and cheaper route. I don't have annoying resonance and I have a very pleasing deep exhaust note with a quiet idle.

BTW Schmiedmann accepts US credit cards.

[86GT635]

I would choose stock. You're not going to beat it up like a daily driver, and that's what the engine did the best with. Good luck.

[rmorin1249]

Stock is still my first choice if I can get the darn parts without paying a small fortune.

[eric1ono]

Randall,

Sorry to hear of your troubles. I'm like you and prefer stock. When I first got my car, I needed to replace the exhaust from the headers back, but at that time I was told the parts we NLA. Germany wasn't blocking them then, they just said they didn't have any. My car was sidelined for 4~5 months, but I finally tracked down a new stock exhaust that was owned by an individual who was willing to let it go.

When I was looking around one option I pondered was Billy Boat. I had seen good feedback on their systems and they didn't seem to have the drone issue. Good luck with whatever you decide. Don't know why BMW Germany has to act like this. It's very frustrating.

Eric

[Dash01]

Since the E24 shares the chassis design and drivetrain with the E28, would an E28 exhaust system fit the E24?

Last winter I priced the catback system for my son's E28 535i, and found that Autozone had a prefab one to fit E28, and I'm pretty sure it was stainless, for about $250. Customer installed. I would not expect OEM quality nor old world craftsmanship at that price, nor more than several years longevity.

Well, son wanted something more robust, so paid ~$600 for 3" pipe, muffler and resonator, custom fitted and installed locally. After they put the resonator in, it actually sounds pretty good, and pretty quiet cruising at 75-80.

PS: Don't just leave your old catalytic converter at the muffler shop for their disposal: They'll gladly dispose of the shell after they remove about $200 worth of platinum from it, no doubt without mentioning this to you. Factory BMW cats are known for having lots of good platinum, so that's the first thing PicknPull cuts off the car before any customer has a chance at snagging it.

[rmorin1249]

Since the E24 shares the chassis design and drivetrain with the E28, would an E28 exhaust system fit the E24?

Last winter I priced the catback system for my son's E28 535i, and found that Autozone had a prefab one to fit E28, and I'm pretty sure it was stainless, for about $250. Customer installed. I would not expect OEM quality nor old world craftsmanship at that price, nor more than several years longevity.

Well, son wanted something more robust, so paid ~$600 for 3" pipe, muffler and resonator, custom fitted and installed locally. After they put the resonator in, it actually sounds pretty good, and pretty quiet cruising at 75-80.

PS: Don't just leave your old catalytic converter at the muffler shop for their disposal: They'll gladly dispose of the shell after they remove about $200 worth of platinum from it, no doubt without mentioning this to you. Factory BMW cats are known for having lots of good platinum, so that's the first thing PicknPull cuts off the car before any customer has a chance at snagging it.

Dash, Not sure what is unique about the Euro parts but for some reason the components for the Euro car are different from the US models so I'm not sure the E28 parts will fit.

My car has no cats so this isn't an issue. I'm still pursuing the OEM mufflers from a dealer in OH. If he gets the same story from BMWNA I guess I'll give up and either order them myself direct from Germany and pay the ridiculous prices or see about a custom system.

Added: I am now getting prices on OEM parts from some vendors both in the US and in Germany. Interesting that the front muffler seems to be available from US vendors. I think it may also fit the E28 and perhaps some other E24 models. I have not checked realoem to confirm. The problem part is the rear muffler. It shows NLA on most US vendor websites but is still listed by BMW as a valid part number. I have emailed several vendors to see if they can special order it from Germany. If I can source both mufflers for around $800 I will stick with a stock setup.

The 2 part numbers I am seeking are:

18122225082 FRONT MUFFLER
18121309004 REAR MUFFLER (to 06/87)

The note for the rear muffler that it only fits up to 6/87 builds explains why later model rear mufflers won't work. There must be something different on the early cars, perhaps only the Euro models, I don't know.

[eric1ono]

I could be wrong, but I remember hearing the difference is due to the fuel tank. I believe the one in the earlier M635s are larger than the US M6s. Sinc that sits next to the rear exhaust canister then the space available is slightly different.

Someone correct me if I am off.

Eric

[alpinacsi]

The fuel tanks are different but has no affect on the exhaust. Difference in the tank is to allow for the US bumper shock placement.

On the e28: the US and euro rear panel was different and exhaust cutout was placed differently. The euro exhaust might also have a different hanger and be a different length on the tailpipe to compensate for the shorter bumper.

[RSheiman]

Try calling Marshal at O2 salvage and call Classic garage in NY. They may not list it on their site but they may have one gathering dust somewhere. Long shot but just a phone call .

[rmorin1249]

Try calling Marshal at O2 salvage and call Classic garage in NY. They may not list it on their site but they may have one gathering dust somewhere. Long shot but just a phone call .

I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

[rmorin1249]

I'll give it a shot. Thanks.

Struck out. None available.

[Badgas]

One more long shot. Talk to Carl at La Jolla Independent. (California) Seems to know where parts are hoarded and really knows his stuff.

[rmorin1249]

One more long shot. Talk to Carl at La Jolla Independent. Seems to know where parts are hoarded a really knows his stuff.
Will do.

[Roku35]

Have you tried BAVAUTO? I got my front to back stock Euro system from Germany via BAVAUTO. OEM was still available complete for under $1000. Of course this was 5 years ago and I don't have a M635csi. But BAVAUTO was very helpful in locating and bringing the parts in for my Euro 628csi, and then sending everything to Hawaii for me. Bolted right on; NO CAT, straight pipe, middle euro resonator, rear muffler, chrome tips and the kit.

http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab311/hawaiisharks/Hime/IMG_2385.jpg (http://s875.photobucket.com/user/hawaiisharks/media/Hime/IMG_2385.jpg.html)
http://i875.photobucket.com/albums/ab311/hawaiisharks/Hime/IMG_2384.jpg (http://s875.photobucket.com/user/hawaiisharks/media/Hime/IMG_2384.jpg.html)

I have a STEBRO System that looks great, but is quite throaty loud. Its a great sounding performance system with sport headers, but most folks think that it is loud (it IS). Getting one in your hands is by far the hardest thing to do...(poor/slow customer service). I don't recommend going through such an ordeal unless you live right next door to their shop.

[rmorin1249]

Yep already tried Bavauto. Autohaus AZ, ECS, and Pelican. No luck. Maximilian is trying to see if they can get the mufflers. Prices are high.

[LarryM]

About 8 years ago Maximilian got me the entire Euro cat-forward exhaust system for my car; I had the Euro downpipes lengthened slightly, then ceramic coated, and bolted them up directly to a Supersprint resonator and muffler (i.e. no cat) using factory flanges. This is on my U.S. M30. The system sounds very nice, not too loud at all. Hopefully Max will still be able to help you out.

[rmorin1249]

About 8 years ago Maximilian got me the entire Euro cat-forward exhaust system for my car; I had the Euro downpipes lengthened slightly, then ceramic coated, and bolted them up directly to a Supersprint resonator and muffler (i.e. no cat) using factory flanges. This is on my U.S. M30. The system sounds very nice, not too loud at all. Hopefully Max will still be able to help you out.

It looks like Maximilian may be my last and only resort if go with a stock system. Still waiting to hear back from the last BMW dealer who said they would try to get them out of Germany. I'm not optimistic. I took a trip this morning to Mandrel Bending Solutions in Pasadena, MD. Nice place, nice folks. They guy took one look at the system on my car and shook his head and asked who in the hell designed this exhaust system. Biggest problem is the space for a rear muffler. As most of you know the shape of the E25 rear muffler is quite odd. It leaves lilttle room for a standard shape muffler as it has to fit between the fuel tank and the spare tire well. This particular shop has the ability to digitize my exhaust and then try to duplicate it with various components. He said it would take a day or two to complete the design. They are the only shop I know of within 100 miles of where I live that can mandrel bend pipe up to 409 stainless. They have examplse of their work on display and I must say it is impressive. My main concern is the comment made by the fellow who helped me. He said due to the space limitations the system is probably going to be a bit loud. I told him I didn't mind a nice mellow sound with some burble but did not want droaning on the highway. He said he could take care of the droan but it still might be a bit loud. I noticed several custom "X" pipe examples hanging on the wall and am curious about their function. Do they serve to lessen noise? The pictures on their website show these being used on several dual systems.

So, as of now, I am waiting to hear from one last BMW dealer and on the custom design from the place in Pasadena. If I decide to go with the OEM components I will likely order from Maximilian as their prices are higher than the dealer, with the BMWCCA discount, but lower than ordering direct from a German vendor and paying in Euros plus the shipping from Germany direct to me.

[Dash01]

Try BMA auto parts in Caifornia: https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CB0QFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.bmaparts.com%2F&ei=ucfGU9XKPMLj8AWnpYKYBQ&usg=AFQjCNGvW0OgRMgmBfbEtyge6Sgpo695Wg&sig2=GdgkQdEsGFCN15jXuwrTHA&bvm=bv.71126742,d.dGc

Ask for Patrick. In my experience, he's about the best guy to ask, not that others are not also worthwhile.

X pipe or H pipe allows a bolus of exhaust gas to partly split at the intersection, siphoning off some of the pressure to the other pipe, which may have lower internal pressure due to partial vacuum following the last bolus that went through. If correctly designed with good internal geometry, this synergy can make the dual pipes more efficient. In theory.

In practice, and given that BMW engineers know what they're doing, it's probably better to stick with stock. Or go to single 3" stainless pipe, which system my son has on his E28 535i with resonator, muffler, and no cat, custom local job, $600.

[rmorin1249]

:lolSeems a shame to use a single pipe when my car has a complete dual system starting with 2 sets of 3 into 1 header pipes. I'll check with BMA.

Added: I searched for the 2 parts on their website using the BMW part numbers but both came up as unavailable. I left a message with BMA and got an automatic response saying they will get back to me. Keeping my fingers crossed.

Thanks for all the help. I'm tempted to take a military Space A flight to Germany with a couple really big duffel bags and bring the damn things back with me as checked baggage.

Added: Here is the response from BMA: "Hi Randall,

Thank you for taking the time to submit your request.


Unfortunately those mufflers are both discontinued.


Please feel free to call or email me if you have any other questions.


Thank you,


Sergio Torres"

Back to square 1.

[rmorin1249]

If it were my car, I would go with the custom bent SS exhaust with Magnaflow muffler and resonators. Don't leave out the front resonators ..... as many have reported doing so results in the "droning" you are trying to avoid.

Well, the custom shop in Pasadena called today with bad news. He cannot find any components in stainless that will fit in the space available. The biggest issue is the space for the rear muffler. He can't find anything with dual inlets and outlets that will fit. He said they could make some mufflers but the cost of the system would approach $2K.

If I find out that the OEM parts cannot be sourced I guess it is down to a Supersprint system. I would like to hear from any M635 owners who are running a Supersprint system without the front resonators or cats, just the center resonator and rear muffler. Will I get any droan without the front resonator or cats?

I can get these 2 components in stainless for about $1200 and another $250 for installation and hardware.

http://www.supersprintna.com/category-exec/category_id/139/part_criteria%5Bsearch_make%5D/1/part_criteria%5Bsearch_year%5D/1987/part_criteria%5Bsearch_model%5D/22/


The OEM parts will cost about the same ordered from a German vendor and they are not stainless so I am thinking maybe a Supersprint system is a better choice.

[Greg330Ci]

Randall, have you tried calling Frank Fahey, or Mario at VSR1? Maybe one of them can do a custom system, or if not maybe suggest another option.

http://www.frankfaheymotorsports.com/index.html

http://www.vsr1.com/index.php?page=m5-m6-performance-exhaust

My previous M635 came from CA and had a Frank Fahey custom exhaust.

[rmorin1249]

Randall, have you tried calling Frank Fahey, or Mario at VSR1? Maybe one of them can do a custom system, or if not maybe suggest another option.

http://www.frankfaheymotorsports.com/index.html

http://www.vsr1.com/index.php?page=m5-m6-performance-exhaust

My previous M635 came from CA and had a Frank Fahey custom exhaust.

I'll give 'm a holler