View Full Version : The (potential) M2 vs M3/4: which would you choose?
Tomcat104
05-05-2014, 01:34 AM
We know there is talk about the upcoming M2 (not to be confused with the current M235i). While there are still questions on whether this M2 is 100% confirmed (http://www.autoblog.com/2014/05/01/bmw-m2-2-series-green-lit/), if it indeed does happen (365 to 375 horsepower), it will have performance figures of 0-60 under 5 seconds (http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2015-bmw-m2-rendered-detailed-news). Will you choose it over the M3? Or M235i? In terms of performance the M3 will trump it of course. But as a smaller (and maybe more nimble) car, would the M2 appeal to you over the M3/4? We don't know the price yet obviously, but I do wonder how it will impact a M235i vs M2 decision.
BavarianE39
05-05-2014, 04:08 AM
^^^ The only proper answer...
Tomcat104
05-05-2014, 07:24 AM
^^^ The only proper answer...
...except this isn't a E39 M5 thread...:)
robhoy
05-05-2014, 07:44 AM
Looks like the M2 won't actually be any lighter despite it's smaller dimensions - the M235i is actually about 150 pounds heavier than the M3/M4 - so I doubt it will be much more nimble. Just cheaper and somewhat detuned. It will be interesting to see how they price out and how they perform on the track.
BTW, guess you haven't been here long? "E39 M5" is a long-running BFC joke.
ChristopherG
05-05-2014, 07:57 AM
I would take the M4 the closed deck engine beats the rumored modified N55 any day. Both will be good and if pricing comes in as expected in the low to mid 50s I can't see it as being much of a deciding factor between the two.
SpeedsterBek
05-05-2014, 10:45 AM
This can be debated for ages, but people will buy whicher one fits their needs and finances best.
M3 - 4 door, and m4 is 2 door. We don't even know if the M2 is actully will go into production.
So logical comparision would be M235i vs M4.
According to BMWUSA.COM, they weigh about the same. M4 is slightly longer, lower and wider and looks better too.
But you can't argue with M235i compactness, I think it'll be an easier car to toss around in windy one lane roads.
Some people like modding, so M235i with port installed LSD, a higher boost and few simple bolt ons would be a hoot to drive, and it should be as quick as stock m3/m4.
Others may want something extra special and may have deeper pockets, so they'll get the real M car. Besides, M235i is supposed to be a car to get people hooked, then they can upgrade to more expensive, real M cars.
In the real world, both of them will be fast enough for most people. But lets not kid ourselves, nothing will be as fast as the rental car./
BimmerBreaker
05-05-2014, 06:28 PM
Looks like the M2 won't actually be any lighter despite it's smaller dimensions - the M235i is actually about 150 pounds heavier than the M3/M4 - so I doubt it will be much more nimble.
Where are you getting your information? According to BMW the M235 (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/2series/coupe/2013/showroom/technical_data/index.html) weighs 95 pounds LESS than the M4 (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/mseries/m4coupe/2014/showroom/technical_data/index.html). And 140 pounds lighter than the M3 (http://www.bmw.com/com/en/newvehicles/mseries/m3sedan/2014/showroom/technical_data/index.html).
There is plenty out there to confirm the M2 will be produced. What I think is really up in the air is whether or not it will be a limited production run like the 1M, or a long-term model designed to slot into the M lineup where the M3 used to be before getting bigger and more expensive generation after generation to the point where its now the same dimensions as a 5 series from 15 years ago.
Yep, the M235i is much lighter than the new M3/M4 and by quite a margin too. I bet that the upcoming M2 will be around the same as the M235i or just the 2 series.
Tomcat104
05-05-2014, 10:29 PM
Looks like the M2 won't actually be any lighter despite it's smaller dimensions - the M235i is actually about 150 pounds heavier than the M3/M4 - so I doubt it will be much more nimble. Just cheaper and somewhat detuned. It will be interesting to see how they price out and how they perform on the track.
BTW, guess you haven't been here long? "E39 M5" is a long-running BFC joke.
Hehehe. Yes, I've been here long enough, but haven't been in this section of the forum for a while. My bad. :)
Luftwaffe1O1
05-07-2014, 12:06 PM
I don't know if they are really in the same class even. M235i (currently) and the M2 would still be much cheaper than the m3/4 respectively. Money not being a factor I'd probably go for the m4, but if rumors prove true the price diff between an m235i and an m4 for instance... would be upwards of 30k... The true m car will obviously be a lot faster out of the box. But still I can't say I have too many complaints about the 235. Just waiting for the Dinan software now heh.
ChristopherG
05-09-2014, 08:30 AM
http://www.bmwblog.com/2014/05/09/bmw-m2-spotted/
Camoflaged M2 test car spotted.
BimmerBreaker
05-09-2014, 11:10 AM
I wonder if the M2 will have a tuned up M235i engine or a tuned down M4 engine. I know they are basically the same engine anyways, but it will be interesting to see. Wonder if it will even get an "S" designation.
For some reason I would think that the M2 might have a tuned N55 engine rather than S55 or just like you said it may have a de-tuned version of the S55 engine.
Luftwaffe1O1
05-09-2014, 01:39 PM
For some reason I would think that the M2 might have a tuned N55 engine rather than S55 or just like you said it may have a de-tuned version of the S55 engine.
I would think a detuned S55 since it carries a true M badge. I doubt they would put a non motorsport engine into an actual M car.
SpeedsterBek
05-09-2014, 01:40 PM
I would think a detuned S55 since it carries a true M badge. I doubt they would put a non motorsport engine into an actual M car.
so how does that make you feel since you just got your M235i
BimmerBreaker
05-09-2014, 04:16 PM
I doubt they would put a non motorsport engine into an actual M car.
You mean like this?
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-1m-655x435.jpg
http://www.bmwblog.com/wp-content/uploads/bmw-1m-engine-750x500.jpg
So lets how many true M engines are there. S38, S14, S50 euro, S54, S65, S85. Not so true M engines are S50 us, S52, S62, S63/Tu.
BimmerBreaker
05-09-2014, 06:01 PM
So lets how many true M engines are there. S38, S14, S50 euro, S54, S65, S85. Not so true M engines are S50 us, S52, S62, S63/Tu.
How are the S62 or S63 not M engines? By that standard, none of the engines you listed except the S38 and S65 are real M engines - all those other engines you listed are based off regular production BMW engines, as most BMW M engines are. (S14 - M10/M88; S50 euro - M50; S54 - M54)... one could even argue the S38 isnt a "real" M engine by these standards, thought it was based off the M88 the M88 was also used in non-M engines like the 735i.
My question was whether or not BMW M will alter the engine enough to warrant an S designation. The only "fake" M engines are the US S50 and S52 and the N54 in the 1M
Luftwaffe1O1
05-09-2014, 09:03 PM
You mean like this?
Last I checked the 1M didn't carry a true m name. It was the 1M not an m1. While it is much more of an m car than an m235i, it also doesn't have an m motor...
ChristopherG
05-09-2014, 09:05 PM
All the reports so far are pointing to a N55 tuned to about 380 hp. The closed deck M4 engine will be saved for the more expensive models.
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Last I checked the 1M didn't carry a true m name. It was the 1M not an m1. While it is much more of an m car than an m235i, it also doesn't have an m motor...
1M was a tricky naming exercise with the M1 name being already taken by the 80s supercar. Definitely a totally different car and they did the right thing by not reusing the name.
How are the S62 or S63 not M engines? By that standard, none of the engines you listed except the S38 and S65 are real M engines - all those other engines you listed are based off regular production BMW engines, as most BMW M engines are. (S14 - M10/M88; S50 euro - M50; S54 - M54)... one could even argue the S38 isnt a "real" M engine by these standards, thought it was based off the M88 the M88 was also used in non-M engines like the 735i.
My question was whether or not BMW M will alter the engine enough to warrant an S designation. The only "fake" M engines are the US S50 and S52 and the N54 in the 1M
Ah, shoot. I made my post with my phone and got some of those engines a little mixed up actually. However, you're absolutely right with your points though as some of them, if not all, are just the derivatives of an actual non-M engine that later on was then upgraded for high engine speed, high power performance designed engines. Only few stand out alone amongst the list. The S85 and S65.
BimmerBreaker
05-09-2014, 09:34 PM
Last I checked the 1M didn't carry a true m name. It was the 1M not an m1. While it is much more of an m car than an m235i, it also doesn't have an m motor...
As mentioned by another poster, the 1M doesnt carry the M1 name only because of the M1 supercar from the '80s. If it was TRULY not an M, it would be called a "M135" like the M235 we see now. BMW has used this sort of nomenclature for a very long time, it would have been nothing new and there would have been no problem with it.
The 1M is a true M car, the only M car to not have a specific M engine. It can be verified that it is a true M because the VIN starts with "WBS" as do all M cars, as opposed to all non-M models which are "WBA"
You are correct it does not have an M motor per se though, as designated by it starting with an "N" instead of S. That was actually the point of me mentioning it in my post :) (because its an "M" car without an "S" engine, which all M cars historically have)
Luftwaffe1O1
05-10-2014, 12:48 AM
As mentioned by another poster, the 1M doesnt carry the M1 name only because of the M1 supercar from the '80s. If it was TRULY not an M, it would be called a "M135" like the M235 we see now. BMW has used this sort of nomenclature for a very long time, it would have been nothing new and there would have been no problem with it.
The 1M is a true M car, the only M car to not have a specific M engine. It can be verified that it is a true M because the VIN starts with "WBS" as do all M cars, as opposed to all non-M models which are "WBA"
You are correct it does not have an M motor per se though, as designated by it starting with an "N" instead of S. That was actually the point of me mentioning it in my post :) (because its an "M" car without an "S" engine, which all M cars historically have)
Yeah, I know the history of the M1, and roughly why they went with 1M, but I still always viewed it as kind of a bastard. A really awesome bastard, but nevertheless, a bastard. It would be sad if they just dumped another N motor into the M2.
Yeah, I know the history of the M1, and roughly why they went with 1M, but I still always viewed it as kind of a bastard. A really awesome bastard, but nevertheless, a bastard. It would be sad if they just dumped another N motor into the M2.
Best quote!
Anybody here thinks that the M2 may actually come with an uprated N20 engine making somewhere in the 300+ hp range?
BimmerBreaker
05-10-2014, 09:00 PM
Anybody here thinks that the M2 may actually come with an uprated N20 engine making somewhere in the 300+ hp range?
I'd totally be for that - would do a lot for the balance of the chassis, but there is nothing indicating that will happen :(
I think the biggest reason we wont see that is marketing... "4 cylinder M or 6 cylinder non-M" is not a question marketing guys want potential customers to be asking. Intersting idea though, hadn't even though of that. An S20, FTW (not a DET... ricers...)
The Nissan S20 ... I was going to say .....
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Also, if it does come with a 4 cylinder M engine it's going to be a long time since BMW first had a 4 cylinder M engine. I wouldn't mind that honestly. Just make it a high revving engine. Turbo or not.
BimmerBreaker
05-10-2014, 11:38 PM
No matter what, it will be turbo. I expect in 15 years, BMW will no longer offer a naturally aspirated engine in the US - probably worldwide. Thank ever-tightening emissions requirements for that...
Of course it's going to be all turbo. No more NA.
pizzaman09
05-12-2014, 08:02 PM
Of the choices available, I would love to try the M2. I already have an e39 M5 so it would be fun to try a fun little car for once. I would be happy if it had 300hp.
Heck, I have been having fun recently driving my friend's 86 Porsche 944. It is slow but it handles well and it is a lot of fun to drive a car that is a little underpowered. You actually have to think about what gear you are in, for instance required downshifts for hills. That certainly isn't the case for my e39.
Kevlar
05-12-2014, 08:12 PM
M3 (cause 4 door)
Man, I can't wait to see the owners changing the ///M4 badges to ///M3 badge on their new ///M4.
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