Driving a manual

[TJ21]

Hey everyone,

I've been having a little family argument or convo about how to drive a manual. The things it's mostly regarding are first is it okay to hold the clutch and coast down a hill? Also when down shifting, is it okay to just hold the clutch and shift down without letting out the clutch so you slow the car down with the breaks and not the engine? Finally when you start the car is it bad to start in neutral? And when your at a stop is it bad to be in geat with the clutch down? Thanks everyone and I just need to prove this to my family...

[ELVA164]

Unfortuately, you both kinda lose this argument. While it technically works to do those things you've described, there is both no reason for them and a detrimental effect on your clutch if you do so. Holding down then clutch pedal for an extended period of time causes the fingers of the pressure plate to wear out more quickly. More importantly, it puts stress on the pilot bushing/bearing and the throw-out bearing, which are not fun things to replace. There are two ways to use engine/gearbox braking: the friendly way and the unfriendly way. You can be friendly by rev-matching on downshifts, leaving the car in gear, and not allowing the rpm to get too high or too low. You can be unfriendly by downshifting early which causes an over-rev, by slamming the car into gear or releasing the clutch quickly without rev-matching, or by keeping the car in too high a car and causing the engine to chug. It's nicer to the brakes and not detrimental to the engine or gearbox if you leave the car in gear while braking. You should always start a manual car in neutral, with your foot off the clutch, unless you're doing a Le Mans start and need to leave in a hurry. As far as being at a stop with the clutch disengaged, see above.

[TJ21]

Unfortuately, you both kinda lose this argument. While it technically works to do those things you've described, there is both no reason for them and a detrimental effect on your clutch if you do so. Holding down then clutch pedal for an extended period of time causes the fingers of the pressure plate to wear out more quickly. More importantly, it puts stress on the pilot bushing/bearing and the throw-out bearing, which are not fun things to replace. There are two ways to use engine/gearbox braking: the friendly way and the unfriendly way. You can be friendly by rev-matching on downshifts, leaving the car in gear, and not allowing the rpm to get too high or too low. You can be unfriendly by downshifting early which causes an over-rev, by slamming the car into gear or releasing the clutch quickly without rev-matching, or by keeping the car in too high a car and causing the engine to chug. It's nicer to the brakes and not detrimental to the engine or gearbox if you leave the car in gear while braking. You should always start a manual car in neutral, with your foot off the clutch, unless you're doing a Le Mans start and need to leave in a hurry. As far as being at a stop with the clutch disengaged, see above.

Alright thanks and so when you drive you let the car slow the engine down?

[ELVA164]

In the cars I've driven, I almost always leave the car in gear and heel-toe downshift at about 2000rpm. I'll pop the car into neutral usually if I'm in third gear or below and coming to a complete stop. Also, I never take the time to downshift into first.

Edit: As a side note, you should really explore how helpful decelerating without using the brakes can be. I use the brakes a lot less than most people because a lot of times they just aren't necessary, and it has a positive effect on things like brake wear (obviously) and fuel mileage.

[SpeedsterBek]

Most newer cars won't let you start the car unless you push the clutch all the way down.
Anyone who is getting ready to learn manual should learn how it actually works.

Also, there are bunch of videos on youtube on how to drive a manual properly, if you need to prove your family.
This topic can be discussed for ages. I have been in people's cars where they drive a manual but they suck at it. It makes me cringe when people don't rev match when downshifting, which results in a huge jolt. Also, it pisses me off when people do multiple forward-backward motions while waiting on a hill.

My method may not be 100% correct but here is how I do it:

Start the car with clutch pushed, no matter what gear I am in
Always be in a gear, when you're moving. Be always in a gear when going downhill for greater control.
Sometime I get fancy and barely use brakes when slowing down, by downshift revmatching thru each gear. But most of the time, I only push the cluch when rpms start to dip below 1k rpm when stopping
Downshift before the corner, not during or after it.
You can skip gears if you're feeling lazy or have to quickly accelerate. 5 to 3 revmathed downshift is my favorite during passing manuvers. Also, if I am starting at a downhill strech, I just use 2nd to start then followed by 5th gear

[ELVA164]

Most newer cars won't let you start the car unless you push the clutch all the way down.


Good point, forgot about that. Another handy benefit of coasting while in gear in almost any manual-transmission car with electric fuel injection (I think) is the car will use zero fuel. Not sure what you drive OP but if the car has a real-time MPG gauge, pay attention to it while coasting in gear. It'll peg on the high side.

[TJ21]

Good point, forgot about that. Another handy benefit of coasting while in gear in almost any manual-transmission car with electric fuel injection (I think) is the car will use zero fuel. Not sure what you drive OP but if the car has a real-time MPG gauge, pay attention to it while coasting in gear. It'll peg on the high side.

I'm confused by what you mean by this?

[ELVA164]

I don't have a definitive list, but many cars with electric fuel injection (which your car almost definitely has unless it's pre-E30) will cut fuel flow if the car is in gear and coasting.

[TJ21]

I don't have a definitive list, but many cars with electric fuel injection (which your car almost definitely has unless it's pre-E30) will cut fuel flow if the car is in gear and coasting.

Oh ok thanks

[Critter7r]

If you want to coast without using engine braking, just put the car in neutral. Under low-torque situations you can take it out of gear with a half-stab at the clutch and no harm done. But don't sit at a light or coast down a hill with the clutch pushing in. And for god's sake, don't hold yourself on a hill by feathering the clutch.

[ELVA164]

If you want to coast without using engine braking, just put the car in neutral. Under low-torque situations you can take it out of gear with a half-stab at the clutch and no harm done. But don't sit at a light or coast down a hill with the clutch pushing in. And for god's sake, don't hold yourself on a hill by feathering the clutch.

If you wanna get really crazy, you can even pop the car out of gear with no harm done by quickly jabbing the throttle and applying pressure to the shifter as you lift off the throttle. The transition from forward pressure to rearward pressure in the gearbox will release the selected gear without using the clutch. Only attempt this if you're just popping the car into neutral, I don't want annihilated synchros from wanna-be dogbox shifting on my hands.

[montaillou]

OP, argue about something else.

There is no proof here, only subjective ideals.

[BimmerBreaker]

first is it okay to hold the clutch and coast down a hill?
It is not ideal - it will wear components quicker. Better to put the car in Neutral and leave it there without pressing the clutch. Best option is to simply leave it in the highest gear you can to minimize engine braking

Also when down shifting, is it okay to just hold the clutch and shift down without letting out the clutch so you slow the car down with the breaks and not the engine?
Holding the clutch in and shifting through the gears is pointless. If you want to downshift and engine brake, make sure to rev match the gears. Its ok to stop the car without engine braking though.

Finally when you start the car is it bad to start in neutral?
No, its basically a requirement, this is why cars wont start in gear. Its not neccesarily bad to start "in" gear as long as the clutch is pressed. But get in gear and get going otherwise it will wear components quicker same as point #1

And when your at a stop is it bad to be in geat with the clutch down?
At a stop it is proper to be in gear with the clutch in (bolded because some others in this thread said otherwise...). In some countries in Europe you can ONLY pass your driving test by doing this - if you shift to the neutral gear in those countries on your driving test, you will fail. The reason for this is if you get rear-ended, if your car is in gear it will stall and stop. If its in neutral and you get hit it can just roll into the intersection. Same reason you leave the car in gear when you park.

[ELVA164]

At a stop it is proper to be in gear with the clutch in (bolded because some others in this thread said otherwise...). In some countries in Europe you can ONLY pass your driving test by doing this - if you shift to the neutral gear in those countries on your driving test, you will fail. The reason for this is if you get rear-ended, if your car is in gear it will stall and stop. If its in neutral and you get hit it can just roll into the intersection. Same reason you leave the car in gear when you park.

I believe you're telling the truth, but that's a ridiculous reason to wear out my throwout bearing and my pilot bearing all the times I'm not rear-ended. Besides, most people sit at lights with their foot on the brake anyway.

[Critter7r]

I believe you're telling the truth, but that's a ridiculous reason to wear out my throwout bearing and my pilot bearing all the times I'm not rear-ended. Besides, most people sit at lights with their foot on the brake anyway.

Agreed. It may be the law in Europe, and it may even be a good idea for the reason stated, but that's an awful lot of additional use over time for the throw out bearing. Best to use your judgment on traffic conditions to decide which to pursue.

[pizzaman09]

I don't have a definitive list, but many cars with electric fuel injection (which your car almost definitely has unless it's pre-E30) will cut fuel flow if the car is in gear and coasting.

This is just an example, I know that my e39 will cut fuel flow whenever I have the car in gear and I am coasting above 2000 rpm. As soon as I drop below 2k the injectors kick back in, I can actually feel it. Also this can be seen in the OBC hidden menus where it shows the liters/hour rate of fuel used.

[slocar]

At a stop it is proper to be in gear with the clutch in (bolded because some others in this thread said otherwise...). In some countries in Europe you can ONLY pass your driving test by doing this - if you shift to the neutral gear in those countries on your driving test, you will fail. The reason for this is if you get rear-ended, if your car is in gear it will stall and stop. If its in neutral and you get hit it can just roll into the intersection. Same reason you leave the car in gear when you park.

As others mentioned, that's a lot of extra wear on the throwout bearing (and my left leg). I usually will sit in neutral with my foot on the brake. I normally watch the lights going across to see when they're turning yellow so I can get in gear and ready to move (since we don't have the yellow before green like all of the rest of the world does).

[r33p04s]

Getting rear ended in gear stoping a car? Wutm8? That is called a push start, the car may initially stall but if you push the damn thing while in gear the engine will turn over and if the ignition is on it will fire and continue to roll...I started my car for 2 weeks this way...

Sent from my thumbs to your eyes.

[BimmerBreaker]

The idea behind driving like that is that your life is a lot more expensive then a throwout bearing. And yes, you should be sitting at the light with the brake too, but if you get knocked unconscious for instance, then theres no guarantee your foot will still be on the brake and if you were sitting in neutral gear that could cause your car to roll into an intersection where you can get t-boned. And killed.


Getting rear ended in gear stoping a car? Wutm8? That is called a push start, the car may initially stall but if you push the damn thing while in gear the engine will turn over and if the ignition is on it will fire and continue to roll...I started my car for 2 weeks this way...

A push start is pushing your car with clutch in and the car in gear, and then with some momentum, popping the clutch. Not sitting at a light and getting hit, the impact from the accident causing you to release the clutch, causing it to engage the transmission before the car has enough momentum to start the car. In that situation, the car would stall, not continue to drive.

Im simply trying to share information on proper driving procedure (which values your life more than minor wear on transmission components). Whether or not you drive like that or believe in driving like that, it is technically the correct way. I dont drive like that (I just watch my mirrors a lot and if someone comes barreling up behind me I put it in gear until they stop), but think a novice driver should have the correct knowledge at hand to choose for themselves how to drive. The wear on the throwout bearing is negligible and if it really bothers your leg, go biking and get some leg strength :)

[dreambig]

Hey everyone,

is it okay to hold the clutch and coast down a hill? Also when down shifting, is it okay to just hold the clutch and shift down without letting out the clutch so you slow the car down with the breaks and not the engine? Finally when you start the car is it bad to start in neutral?

1. No slip it in neutral
2. I have driven small trucks manual but not a car - I was always taught to use the engine.
3. I always park it in first, leave it in first, start it in first. The truck has been driven that way since it was bought in 91.

NOTE: this is my own opinion. Maybe ask a mechanic..