Would you buy a r530i? A new "r" model line that stands for reliable.

[gfunkmoney06]

So I was thinking lately about the general unreliability of BMWs (new and old) and most other German car makes for that matter. I wondered if it was due to 1) planned obsolescence ie greed 2) a lack of attention paid to build quality and materials or 3) their inability to build reliable cars.

So I thought, what if BMW decided to focus their energy and resources towards reliability? The goal to create a car that'll run 500k miles! It would be based on an existing series but a new model line called the "r" for reliable(or robust or resilient). To accomplish this, all the key parts (and even smaller bits like the locking mechanism) are somehow fortified or re engineered to be robust and built strong to last. Internal plastic bits replaced with metal, etc etc. The car would be damn near indestructible, perhaps even better than a Lexus.

Now of course you can't have it all, so the car will be on the low end of the performance spectrum with performance in line with a 528i both in terms of power and handling. It'll have the midrange engine but the car will be heavier and less fuel efficient. Now the kicker: the cost will be comparable to an M5.

Would anyone buy such a model? I would.

[e39hamann]

If it would cost as much as an M5 I'd just buy the M5...

[XDewa2008]

I guess it would be a better investment since you pay a higher price up front so you won't get dimed and nickeled for every little thing down the road in a few years.

[BimmerBreaker]

Wouldnt be worth it... not to mention there already are 1,000,000 mile E39s, much less 500,000 examples

Strengthening every bit on the car would exponentially increase its cost to a price 2-3x it's original cost. Coupled with the fact that things still happen, parts will still fail, and the more robust parts will be accordingly more expensive to replace. They may be able to design a car that NEVER breaks, but thats not cost effective - it will almost always be cheaper to spend $4k on a car and $1k/year maintaining it vs. spending $60k (realistically, MUCH more) on a car that never breaks

Its not cost effective to build a car that doesnt break for the same reason its not cost effective to buy a new car vs. buying a used car after it depreciates and maintaining it

[agentrnge]

Edit: Simple answer. Yes I would be interested if it didnt cost any more than what would eventually be spent on the additional maintenance expected of the "normal" version of the car. I don't see myself buying a new car any time soon... I wonder what resale would be on the r models.


I agree most likely it wouldn't be cost effective. Might add to weight, and thus less fuel economy. And that is the only thing people care about when selling/marketing a car. Car commercials enrage me.

But I would love to see more robust parts go in certain places. Something that would last 20 years over 5-10 years in rubber/poly/plastic bits. Suspension bits, hoses/tubing, and of course vanos seals, guide rails. lol


Btw: Lexus isent all its cracked up to be. They hit a point around 150-170k miles where they tend to need a ton of work just like the e39s.

The e39 engine and chassis with a few weak points is otherwise sound and capable of 350-500k miles. Crappy electrical bits die on everything. New cars will probably be worse with new eco-friendly circuit-fab process. The goal was to use less nasty chemicals, but the result ended up being bits with 10 year lifespans as normal. So that 2014 model car is going to need a complete brain transplant in 6-15 years.

[pizzaman09]

Look into the story of the 1907 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost. Rolls tried to do the exact thing that you are describing. It is said to be one of the most reliable cars ever built because they were insanely over built.

I wouldn't really be interested in such a car, it would be boring to own and likely boring to drive. It is pretty darn hard to make rubber components last forever. If you built everything out of steel and made sure it all had stress levels below that of the infinite fatigue strength, then you could theoretically a super reliable car. With demand for lighter more fuel efficient or high performance cars this will not happen.

[PorscheH6]

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y225/ip42800ht/390-1.gif

[ChrisMelnyk]

This kind of reminds me of a article I read on Jalopnik:


http://jalopnik.com/porsche-built-a-very-slow-car-that-could-last-forever-1524992630


In 1972 Porsche wanted to make a really reliable car.



"It was a car designed to work flawlessly for at least three decades even in the harshest of environments....

Porsche over-engineered its internals to make it bulletproof. They used hydraulic tappets, a highly efficient air and oil filtration system and an advanced cooling system which allowed the car to reach running temperatures very quickly...

But no matter how great their intention was, the FLA was doomed to end up in the Porsche Museum soon after its premier at the 1973 Frankfurt Motor Show. The team had to realize that the production version would be extremely expensive for such low performance, not to mention that using the same (outdated) technology for three decades is not beneficial for the customers nor the environment."

I think the same thing would happen now a days.

[larrym3711]

It is somewhat difficult, even painful at times, to realize that older things generally must die or get recycled in some way for society to move ahead to a better and safer future. Those things in the future may NOT last a longer time , but if the technology of the future must have certain characteristics , that "cost" if usually at the expense of older items .... even if the older items have a lifetime exceeding the newer technologies. It is something like "the more things change increases a faster NEED to change ". It is an increasing need as the population and consumption grows ever faster. Can we sustain it ?

larrym3711
2001 540iA Sport

[SeattleBMW325i]

Unreliability? You know how many 200k+ bmws are out there? I see more high mileage BMWs still going strong than any other manufacturer, hell I saw an e28 at a dealership with 750k on it once, didn't even look half bad. Just about any other car I've looked for starts to dip in numbers by 200k and are all but gone completely by 250.

In any case, as others have mentioned, it doesn't make sense to make a car that reliable. Not because of money, but because cars are already reliable enough that they wear out their welcome as far as safety and technology is concerned by the time they die.

[Rallim]

6 months in with the M5, 145k miles on it, most reliable car I've owned yet.

[ezbmr]

My 330i cost me 1k a year. My 528 probably about 500 a year, maybe less. Most of the people here have used BMW's and if you don't get it inspected first and it was beaten up, it could be less reliable. I don't know if there is planned obsolescence, but I do believe that a lot of things have changed that could make them more unreliable. One would be the desire for more performance, getting the car to handle better, while riding better. Another is making a car more environmentally friendly. There was a time when car companies didn't worry so much about how much of the car could be recycled. Also the competition makes everyone want to put out new things to impress future buyers like no dipsticks an prettier engine bays. There is also the factors of building a car to a price and yes, wanting to buy a future model as opposed to only buying a car every 20 years.

[Aryana]

You're asking for a car that requires little to no maintenance, not reliability. Properly maintained, BMWs are very reliable. I put 350k on my last 5 series. It never left me stranded in 20 years, and I would argue that is pretty "reliable".

BMWs require regular maintenance. If what you want is a car that can keep running without maintaining it, I would suggest looking at some Toyotas or Hondas.

[champaign777]

You're asking for a car that requires little to no maintenance, not reliability. Properly maintained, BMWs are very reliable. I put 350k on my last 5 series. It never left me stranded in 20 years, and I would argue that is pretty "reliable".

BMWs require regular maintenance. If what you want is a car that can keep running without maintaining it, I would suggest looking at some Toyotas or Hondas.

+1
BMW is very reliable ? Cant say this ...
I think ~70% threads on BMW forums are about problems and maybe ~30% about mods.
Go to any mercedes of infiniti forum and you will find exact opposite ,- ~70% threads about mods and only ~30% about problems.
Example, - after so many years these bimmers still leak like a crazy - 10 oil leak threads on BMW forum = 1 oil leak thread on MB forum
They maybe reliable for some time after you fixed all issues but wait a bit and something will fail very soon ;)

[larrym3711]

I told the most experienced BMW mechanic in the area (20 years) that I was going to do the lower oil pan on a 540. He said "well... All the V8's leak". And a snide comment to the effect this oil leak problem will continue!

larrym3711
2001 540iA Sport

[pizzaman09]

6 months in with the M5, 145k miles on it, most reliable car I've owned yet.

I wish I could say that about my M5. It has been very reliable so far but it cant hold a candle to my plain Jane nearly bullet proof Oldsmobile.

Simplicity pays off if you are going for reliability.

[rf900rkw]

I told the most experienced BMW mechanic in the area (20 years) that I was going to do the lower oil pan on a 540. He said "well... All the V8's leak". And a snide comment to the effect this oil leak problem will continue!

larrym3711
2001 540iA Sport

He must be experienced in something besides actually fixing the cars, then. Mine doesn't leak or burn a drop, hasn't for the last 40K miles.

[rf900rkw]

And why is everyone think Lexus, etal are reliable cars? For the same car age, the Lexus / Infiniti / Acuras I see are ratted out and falling apart. I think it's more a case of demographics. The owners of 15 y/o high milage Japanese cars aren't bothered by all the non functioning equipment, as long as it still runs.

[jamesdc4]

The irony of it is the Japanese rarely keep their vehicles longer than 10 years because of the cost of inspections.

http://www.businessweek.com/1998/24/b3582163.htm
"It is a little-known fact that Japan's car market is propped up by the government's strict inspection policy (''Japan's carmakers: Time to partner or perish,'' Asian Business, May 25). Three years after purchase, every new car has to go through an expensive inspection process, and once every two years after that. Furthermore, vehicles older than 10 years have to pass the inspection every year. As a result, most car owners in Japan write off their cars after 10 years and buy new ones. Hundreds of thousands of perfectly fine automobiles are demolished every year. This practice has been used to boost car sales in Japan and give carmakers advantages to compete in the international market."

- - - Updated - - -

...and in answer to your question, no. I like my ladies spirited and unpredictable.

[RuskiE39]

So far the most unreliable part of this car has been making time go by quicker so I can get off work and drive it home...

[ChrisMelnyk]

+1
BMW is very reliable ? Cant say this ...
I think ~70% threads on BMW forums are about problems and maybe ~30% about mods.
Go to any mercedes of infiniti forum and you will find exact opposite ,- ~70% threads about mods and only ~30% about problems.
Example, - after so many years these bimmers still leak like a crazy - 10 oil leak threads on BMW forum = 1 oil leak thread on MB forum
They maybe reliable for some time after you fixed all issues but wait a bit and something will fail very soon ;)

I don't really think the ratio of problem to mods is very useful.

Example: I checked back on the R50 Nissan Pathfinder Forum I used to frequent. BTW R50 Pathfinder have ridiculously high reliability ratings. (Consumer reports, MSN Auto..)

Out of 29 threads on the first page, 27 were problems, 1 was a mod and 1 was a picture thread.

I think there are so many problem threads on both the R50 & e39 forums because there are knowledgable people to answer the questions asked.


If all problem threads had zero replies, no one would ask anymore.


That said, you don't have to have super knowledgable people to answer a lot of the "mod threads" out there.

Ex: What rims look best?, should I paint my grill? etc...


So I guess my point is that the type of threads could reflect more on the community than the car.



PS: I consider the e39 to be reliable but high maintanance

[larrym3711]

My limited experience with cars has led me to believe that BMW owners see their car as an END in itself. Mercedes and Infinity owners see their vehicles as a MEANS to an end. Big difference. I should know having all those vehicles over the years. Just my $.02 cents.

larrym3711
2001 540iA Sport

[champaign777]

larry is right as usual
this why i spend more time fixing one Bimmer than doing something for both MB and Infiniti
LOL

[geargrinder]

Unreliability? You know how many 200k+ bmws are out there? I see more high mileage BMWs still going strong than any other manufacturer, hell I saw an e28 at a dealership with 750k on it once, didn't even look half bad. Just about any other car I've looked for starts to dip in numbers by 200k and are all but gone completely by 250.

In any case, as others have mentioned, it doesn't make sense to make a car that reliable. Not because of money, but because cars are already reliable enough that they wear out their welcome as far as safety and technology is concerned by the time they die.

Thank you for sending this thread back to reality.

I do not buy at all the premise that all german cars are unreliable. E39s might be a bit more needy and V8s particularly a little more than that but E46's make great solid drivers. Similar things true in AudiLand. Oh. Right. Forums are full of problems. Duh. Of course. I dont usually go starting new threads to say "hey guys - another day and nothing is wrong!"

Every car has its mechanical quirks. Maybe a little fewer than average for some Japanese cars. But that doesnt make "german cars unreliable" by any stretch.

[BimmerBreaker]

+1
BMW is very reliable ? Cant say this ...
I think ~70% threads on BMW forums are about problems and maybe ~30% about mods.
Go to any mercedes of infiniti forum and you will find exact opposite ,- ~70% threads about mods and only ~30% about problems.
Example, - after so many years these bimmers still leak like a crazy - 10 oil leak threads on BMW forum = 1 oil leak thread on MB forum
They maybe reliable for some time after you fixed all issues but wait a bit and something will fail very soon ;)
Bad news spreads quicker than good news, people dont get online to talk about how reliable their cars are - they get on when they want to fix something that broke or modify something. Generally because of the demographics, more people will want to mod those other brands anyways vs. keeping their BMW's stock, not to mention that this notion of 70% mod and 30% problems is completely made up and not true if you look on other forums.

BMWs are some of the most reliable cars I have ever worked on, and I have worked on hundreds just the past year. I see more problems with Infiniti and Lexus then BMW by a longshot. MB is way worse than BMW too. MB engines may not leak oil but everything else in the engine bay and rest of the car breaks. And the things that break on BMW are generally cheaper and much, MUCH easier to fix. Especially much easier than AWD Audi or FWD japanese luxury cars. BMWs are designed to be worked on. Other companies are designed not to break - and when they do break, get ready for a headache pulling an engine just to get to an oil pan!

This BMW is unreliable argument is just a pet peeve of mine because in the real world its so far from the truth is unbelievable. Treat your BMW well and it will treat you well - neglect it, and like any other car, issues will arise.

[RobertFontaine]

The original supposition that BMW's are unreliable is incorrect. Everything that follows from that is monkey talk. Next

[geargrinder]

:buttrock

[jicaino]

BMW's being unreliable? Man, you're crazy. Tell me how much does it cost to maintain any other car that has the power and features of an e39 540i, while still being streetable and accomodative to several type of usages, and can adjust to your particular mood of driving for different applications...
French cars are unreliable and bland
Italian cars are fast, but very unreliable and unpredictible over a road, and noisy
American cars, once an epithom of luxury and space, they have become in plastic personality less front wheel driven nutshells....

I love my Bimmer, e39 540i she's been purring since I spent a couple of dollars on her athat previous ownerd overlooked, and not that I have her where I wanted I just can't thik of the time it needs to pass for me riding her again.

[Aryana]

The original supposition that BMW's are unreliable is incorrect. Everything that follows from that is monkey talk. Next

:buttrock

[weedshoes]

BMWs are only unreliable if you can't afford to maintain them. All too often people will lie to themselves about what it means to live within their means, anyone who thinks BMWs are unreliable is a perfect example.

[geargrinder]

BMWs are only unreliable if you can't afford to maintain them. All too often people will lie to themselves about what it means to live within their means, anyone who thinks BMWs are unreliable is a perfect example.

Yeah. That's a factor too.

We haven't lately had as many of the
"HEY GUYS I'M 19 AND HAVE $4K FOR A CAR BUT CAN BORROW MORE FROM MY MOM TO GET A (540/M5/whatever) WITH 175K MILES SO ITS GONNA BE REALLY AWESOME I CAN'T WAIT!"
soon followed by the
"HEY GUYS I CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT A PIECE OF JUNK THESE CARS ARE THEY ARE SO EXPENSIVE AND EVERYTHING IS BROKEN BMW'S SUCK I AM SELLING MY CAR AND BUYING A (Mustang/WRX/whatever)"

Do those kids come out in Spring like when the Crocuses bloom or something?

[weedshoes]

I think those typically happen late summer, after kids save their first $4k from their first summer job.

[geargrinder]

LOL. good call, sounds right.

[dme88]

Won't happen. Spare parts is too big of income.

[BimmerBreaker]

Do those kids come out in Spring like when the Crocuses bloom or something?

They come in May after their family's marijuana harvest is ripened, the kids then smoke the jolly herb with their parents which is why they all decide its a good idea to buy their 16 year old son a high-mileage, 20 year old, $100k-sticker-when-new BMW M series vehicle.

[gfunkmoney06]

Let's not get nasty now. I just wanted a healthy discussion. I've owned BMWs for 12 years now. I'm no kid and I treat my cars well. My parents own an ES300 and an LS430. The running cost on those r less than a quarter of the costs of my previous E36 and E46. There's no question that Japanese cars r FAR more reliable. Sure they're mostly boring point A to B cars but that's not the point here. Now, the fact that many here are actually arguing that BMWs have superior reliability and are in fact some of the most reliable cars on the road tells me this has become yet another case of people getting defensive about their own cars. It's all good... I've learned my lesson not to start threads like this again... It's maddening though when people just make assumptions or hear junk they want to hear on the Internet and accept it as fact. In the BMW owner's mind, BMWs are some of the best built and most reliable cars so they relish the idea that Lexus reliability is "overrated." Yet, they've never owned one in their life. Ignorance is bliss.

- - - Updated - - -


And why is everyone think Lexus, etal are reliable cars? For the same car age, the Lexus / Infiniti / Acuras I see are ratted out and falling apart. I think it's more a case of demographics. The owners of 15 y/o high milage Japanese cars aren't bothered by all the non functioning equipment, as long as it still runs.

How is this a case for Lexus being unreliable? If anything this proves how reliable they are. The owner of a 15 year old high mileage Japanese car doesn't care about spending the time to fix up their cars, YET IT STILL RUNS. It just keeps going and going. I just wish Germans can still build cars like that like back in the 80s. There would be very little case to be made to buy any Japanese car. Ask any Lexus owner why they don't go w/ BMW or Mercedes and it's 95% due to reliability and running costs. So again, I wonder if it's a $$$ thing or incompetence.

- - - Updated - - -


BMWs are only unreliable if you can't afford to maintain them. All too often people will lie to themselves about what it means to live within their means, anyone who thinks BMWs are unreliable is a perfect example.

Why do most BMWs always have a long running "To Do" list? Why does the cooling system fail <100k miles, all the suspension bits wear out prematurely causing steering shimmy, VANOS go kaboom, fuel pumps fail, windows and locks malfunction, electrical problems that'll make your head spin etc etc etc?. Just because you get "used to it" and these problems are "well-known" does not make these car reliable. Are you kidding me? Just look at the 7 series. Those cars have depreciated from $80-100k to $10-20k in less than 10 years. That doesn't happen by accident. Why do German luxury cars depreciate so much? Because there is always something wrong w/ them. They empty your wallets. And, you don't have to be poor to be annoyed by this crap. Many rich people have also moved to cheaper Japanese makes not because they (obviously) can't afford a German luxury vehicle but because they're sick of having to constantly take their cars to the shop.

Lexus don't have half of these issues--do you think they just got lucky? Reliability is important to the Japanese so their cars are built strong and robust. It seems like BMW and MB just don't care. So again, it's not necessarily a cost issue it's the amount of time spent on repairs.

[Mikese39]

we have 1 benz, 1 VW TDI, my e39 and a e66 750. as far as reliability goes the BMWs are 100X better than the other 2. maybe we are just lucky IDK.

[scott99540it]

Im running an older 2002 Odyssey along side my E39. They both have cost me about the same in repairing worn out parts. However, I find myself obsessed with wanting to make the 540it perfect, so i willingly spend
money on worn out parts.

[retiredat44]

I am older, then probably a few people here, late 50's. I have owned a lots of cars, bikes, etc... driven in lots of countries.. Born in California... drove cars going back to the early 1950's. Enough with what sounds like some type of old person rant.. not meant to be that.. the point is that in the last 20 years, my focus was changed because of serious health issues, which caused money issues.. had to maintain older cars after being used to new cars.. I would have to say a new Honda or Toyota cannot be beat by much for reliability. But, a huge caveat coming,,, when they have higher mileage they will nickel and dime you with timing belts and front wheel drive parts falling apart.. and a bunch of other issues with parts breaking, even with good maintenance.. but can say the engine itself and trans will stay running with little to no oil burning at very high mileages (300,000-400,000) after that the rattles and other stuff will either become intolerable.. OR replaced... your choice..

I only put about 20,000 on my 2001 BMW 530i, so far, which I bought used.. and while I have had anything major, just fixing oil leaks.. new rear rotors.. and brakes, new battery, some new windshield washer hoses stuff.. tires.. steering boots.. fan belts (they were just preventative maintenance). Trying to think of anything else..

the biggest gripe I have is cheap plastic.. annoyances are that a couple weird things like once in a while if a rough idle at start, turn it off and running perfect.. like I t gets a bad computer reading and a reset after a restart.. no biggie.. not often.. but..

I used Castrol Edge Synthetic oil. Love the car.

Front end too low to drive over anything that is more than a few inches.. supposedly has some 'M' suspension 'M' on wheel,, so lower suspension?
Currently in the middle of installing PDC sensors down lower and calibrated for parking/wheel blocks and curbs, a radar display for objects in front.. down low... rest of parts come next week.

Anyways,, love to drive it,, especially since I put up with a crappy car for 20 years and ended up junking that old corolla after we suffer with it for 400,000 miles.. the first half was good, second half was fall apart time.. I was too sick to do much else. After laying on death based for 6 months in hospital.. I got a second chance a life, moved tot he country with a used BMW.


I want a another small Toyota pickup. I missed one I bought new many years ago... Niece wrecked it.. it will make a great 2nd car..

I should not be working on anything, my health is very precarious and it is hell doing simple tasks.. but being a mechanical person my whole life, I can't keep my fingers out of mechanics.. and electronics too. I wish I could just buy a new car al the time and just enjoy a drive. Can't afford dealers and shops to fix things. Can't trust many shops either,,, like other threads say.. different subject..

I have seen a really nice hydraulic lift doesn't cost that much and would easily fit n my garage. I hate crawling under cars, especially with my very bad health.

One thing I have to say is being able to drive out in the country is fantastic.. the cities are no place for nice cars that have performance.. in fact the county I live in have no smog inspections. But my smog controls work.

Anyways.. just had to write a short story.. btw, still on the 'to do list'.. would like a more modern stereo with built in gps and al the goodies, still have original BMW stuff in dash, plus a plug in GPS. But am grateful to have what I have. I walk as much as I can. I learned to enjoy and benefit from good country walks. At one time I was unable to walk or move myself, and now take full advantage of being able to walk. I do survive on heavy pain killers. (prescribed). Exercise is fun when you are out in the country,. with land and rivers..

This Car is a road machine, but when there is deeper snow, gotta have another car, truck. It's road machine that sits very low. Bring out the trucks in the mud and snow!
IMHO

[BrassDrummer]

Car companies are around to make money. If their cars last forever, they won't make any money. Service runs and pays for everything in the automotive world.

[djb2]

Even if you made the engine extremely reliable and low maintenance, you wouldn't end up with a car that lasts forever. There are just too many unexpected failures.

BMW e30s were very reliable. But pretty much every sports seat has the leather worn through on the outer driver's side bolster. That was somewhat predictable. Carpets wear around the pedals, even with plastic inserts. Legends wear off radio and OBC buttons. Etc.

But there were plenty of unexpected failures as well. Every gas spring on the seats has failed, resulting in backs that flop back and bottoms that can't be raised. Almost every original dash has cracked, or will soon do so (I've replaced mine twice with boneyard parts). The defogger grids through 1989 all failed, while ones on 1990 rear windows are usually good.

There are also parts that perform perfectly, until slightly damaged. I had an e-brake cable damaged slightly, probably by road debris. A decade later the outer shroud collapsed from extensive internal rust. The hard brake line on the trailing arm rusted, probably from a stone nick. The steering rack boot was split when I bought the car. I replaced it, but a few years later fluid started leaking from that side. If the sunroof seal fails, the roof starts to rust from the inside.

On the e39, who would have predicted that instrument cluster and MID LCD flexible circuits would fail? They were made with expensive silver ink, instead of cheap carbon ink. Or that the DSC units, with highly reliable ceramic circuit boards, would fail because of defective bond wire welds to those circuit board. Those bond wire welds would likely have been reliable if made to traditional FRP circuit boards.

Also keep in mind that sometime reliability improves with complexity. Coil-on-plug means that you have 4/6/8 times as many coils to fail, and it puts them all in a hot location. But it gets rid of the distributor cap and trades long plug wires for a short, protected boot.

[champaign777]

Why do most BMWs always have a long running "To Do" list? Why does the cooling system fail <100k miles, all the suspension bits wear out prematurely causing steering shimmy, VANOS go kaboom, fuel pumps fail, windows and locks malfunction, electrical problems that'll make your head spin etc etc etc?. Just because you get "used to it" and these problems are "well-known" does not make these car reliable. Are you kidding me? Just look at the 7 series. Those cars have depreciated from $80-100k to $10-20k in less than 10 years. That doesn't happen by accident. Why do German luxury cars depreciate so much? Because there is always something wrong w/ them. They empty your wallets. And, you don't have to be poor to be annoyed by this crap. Many rich people have also moved to cheaper Japanese makes not because they (obviously) can't afford a German luxury vehicle but because they're sick of having to constantly take their cars to the shop.

Lexus don't have half of these issues--do you think they just got lucky? Reliability is important to the Japanese so their cars are built strong and robust. It seems like BMW and MB just don't care. So again, it's not necessarily a cost issue it's the amount of time spent on repairs.

+1
Well i probably again put my finger here and will repeat what i already said ,- i would not say BMW are reliable cars
I love my 2003 Sport 530i and will never sale it ( had 2 another E39 before in last 5 years ) as it is the best car on this planet for me but I am not getting this BMW mantra about reliability
I always was a BMW guy and wanted to get a new BMW just because it is a "BMW" right ?
Had 550i M Sport for 6 month , had 335i M Sport for another 4 month and in the end i drive now benz E350 coupe and my wife drive infiniti FX35
Why ? Because i am sick and tired of there permanent oil leaks and permanent transmission / electrical / suspension BMW issues
Even car is under warranty what is the point to own it if it spend more time at dealer than on the road ? BMW already built the Empire so they simple don't care
Do I like to watch and drive them ? Yaap . Do i want to own another one ? Hell nooo ... I ziped and rar this idea from my memory :)

http://www.stockme.fr/img25cd202a6e/82769880.jpg