Looking at a used 540i Sport - what do I need to be on the lookout for?

[avatar77]

I'm looking at a 2003 540i Sport with about 120K on the odo. Car appears to be in great shape and I will get a PPI, but aside from reading through threads here I don't know exactly what I might be getting myself into. I want a daily driver; am I barking up the wrong tree? Common problem areas or maintenance needs at the stated mileage? I know that not all 120K cars are created equally, but from what I've read it seems that many of you are enjoying your e39s daily at even higher mileages. TIA

[E5CAP3]

You're gonna hear this a lot on BMW forums "mileage and age doesn't matter nearly as much as maintenance". I drive a 1986 535i daily with 166k on the odometer, I've heard of e28s going up to 400k without any major engine work. And the stuff that goes wrong on BMW's, for the most part, goes wrong on every BMW, seriously, every one. Every BMW cooling system from my 86 on up will crap out. Window regulators always die, etc. V8's have a couple of unique problems stemming from the plastic timing chain guides. They will disintegrate over time, typically between 130K-160K, and it's about a 20-30 hour job, which at a shop will run you a minimum of 2 grand. However, people will also tell you that the VANOS issues are less pronounced than in the I6 engines. Basically, you're gonna put money into it no matter what.

So here's what I look for (It took me the better part of a year to find the 540i I have parked at my place now). You want an owner who has saved all of his receipts, documented the work, and has addressed small things as preventative maintenance before they became big problems. I passed on a 530i that looked pretty clean because the owner had no idea what the common maintenance items were that I was describing, and had ignored small stuff that would bug someone who cared about their car. I passed on a 2003 540i because the interior was thrashed. You never want a car that was unloved. So your best bet is to search around and arm yourself with some lingo, go look at the one you want, if the guy can keep up with the terminology and understands the issues you're asking about, it will be worth taking for a PPI. If he has no idea what a Valley Pan gasket is, or if the cooling system was ever overhauled, then pass.

[ViolinARC]

Simpler solution would be to research the Common Problems subforum. Just about every issue is listed there...

Most are DIYable and some require special tools and knowledge, which in most cases, can be found here.

[edjack]

This is a question of previous maintenance. The E39 is a more maintenance-intensive car than a Honda.

This is an 11-year-old car. Unless the PO took good care of it, it will need some work, esp if it has been neglected. If the cooling system is all original, you should count on a timely overhaul. Check the radiator for a date sticker.

Bear in mind that posts on BMW forums are concentrated, and may not reflect a normal experience, esp with those who are not as picky as we fanatics.

Many of these high-mileage owners are serious DIYers. If you need to farm out the work, it can become expensive. However, the car is basically reliable. Mine failed me once in 13 years, when the expansion tank burst and puked out a good bit of coolant. This was before I was aware of the fragile nature of the plastic components in the cooling system.

Does the seller have a file of repairs and maintenance to show you?

[avatar77]

This is a question of previous maintenance. The E39 is a more maintenance-intensive car than a Honda.

This is an 11-year-old car. Unless the PO took good care of it, it will need some work, esp if it has been neglected. If the cooling system is all original, you should count on a timely overhaul. Check the radiator for a date sticker.

Bear in mind that posts on BMW forums are concentrated, and may not reflect a normal experience, esp with those who are not as picky as we fanatics.

Many of these high-mileage owners are serious DIYers. If you need to farm out the work, it can become expensive. However, the car is basically reliable. Mine failed me once in 13 years, when the expansion tank burst and puked out a good bit of coolant. This was before I was aware of the fragile nature of the plastic components in the cooling system.

Does the seller have a file of repairs and maintenance to show you?

Great responses, thank you edjack and E5CAP3. So far I've just had a long phone chat with the seller - planning to head out to see the car in a day or so when my schedule allows. I am a little hesitant because he has only owned the car for 6 months, though the prior owner (#2) owned it for 6 years and the current owner claims to have all of the receipts from that owner. I will say the guy seems to be pretty fanatical and claims to have owned a couple other BMWs in the past, so he doesn't seem like a complete noob. I have the relatively luxury of 6 months before I absolutely need a car, so I've got time to pass on this and keep on looking. I'm just concerned that given the relatively small pool of e39s that aren't beat to hell, one that fits my bill as well as this one won't come up again.

[E5CAP3]

The key is definitely patience. I missed out on a really nice 97 that had been completely rebuilt due to a mixup over the vehicle value at my bank. After that I checked out a couple of other cars over the course of the next 6-9 months, until I finally found my new one. I think the key is don't jump on a vehicle because you're worried about the pool of viable options. I actually had my wife talk me out of the 2003 with the thrashed interior, and I'm glad she did, because soon after I found mine.

[avatar77]

The key is definitely patience. I missed out on a really nice 97 that had been completely rebuilt due to a mixup over the vehicle value at my bank. After that I checked out a couple of other cars over the course of the next 6-9 months, until I finally found my new one. I think the key is don't jump on a vehicle because you're worried about the pool of viable options. I actually had my wife talk me out of the 2003 with the thrashed interior, and I'm glad she did, because soon after I found mine.

LOL, your wife must be talking to my wife. She thinks I'm nuts - I guess that's probably a common thread in any car forum.

[geargrinder]

LOL, your wife must be talking to my wife. She thinks I'm nuts - I guess that's probably a common thread in any car forum.

NO! Do NOT let them get together and compare notes! We'll all be screwed....

[keineM3noch]

Good advice on here. It is all relative to price. If the car is cheap enough you can justify pouring more money into it and if you like to mod things that's even better. Is this a manual or auto car? IIRC manual 540i in MY '03 were RARE, something like 1300 total imported..

Having said that,. I have owned a couple BMW's in the past E34, E46 and now E39. E39 is a little bit to keep up with, maybe a tad more than E46 was.

The v8 cars do take a little more than the inline's regarding love under the bonnet BUT, you forget all about that when you mash the gas pedal.. :)

Timing chains on my car were done 20k prior to me purchasing it but I had the luxury of doing VANOS I knew that when I bought the car and it was reflected in the price..

So just know what your getting into. Research, research research. This forum is chock full of lots of invaluable advice and resources pertaining to keeping these cars on the road without taking out a second mortgage.

Good Luck!

[avatar77]

Thanks all - I am going to pass on the one I've been looking at since I have plenty of time and would prefer something a little closer to 100K miles. I know those are becoming rarer as the years wear on but they do seem to be out there. Now at least I'm armed with a lot more knowledge about what to look for and what might go wrong.

The particular 540i I was looking at is an auto, to answer keineM3noch's question, a 2003 with the M-Technic package. Given the volume of traffice where I live (Atlanta), I'm ok with an automatic even though in an ideal world I would prefer a stick. It's on CL down here if you care to look - I dont have the link handy and not sure I'm supposed to post it in this forum anyhow. It appears pretty well maintained but it would drive me nuts to have it sitting garaged for 6 months until the lease is up on my current vehicle!!

[geargrinder]

IMO... a manual 540 and an auto are dramatically different cars in the driving experience. Way more than I expected, and I"m a car guy with lots of time in lots of cars.

The ZF slushbox and BMW programming Sport mode is good if you have to have such a thing - if I was a rush-hour commuter and had to drive a slush it would be high on my list and its perfectly decent for that sort of thing (aka torque converter auto). But the manual transmission does transform the experience of driving the car and your perception of the engine. IMO. FWIW. etc.

[tmvE39E53Z32TT]

Is it this one? https://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/4352193613.html
You got some good advices on here. I got mine for $6k and give it some love and maintenance. I settle for AT for 2 reasons: rush hour traffic and wife's back-up car. When I feel the need to row the gears, I'll bring out my Z32 verTT.
Let me know if you want some local help/opinion. Here's another one closer to 100k miles mark https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/4314811633.html

[manticore33]

OP where are you located? At this age of e39, if from rust belt/Northern climates, I'd would worry most about oxidation. My 232k originally from PGH car now living near CMH is starting to rot. Granted, my car sits outside, but I am starting to see the rust creep on other e39s/e46s of the same vintage. Check your door/hood/trunk seams, gas filler area, front/lower rockers, inside rear wheel, and rear quarters where the bumper meets. Look carefully too, the textured undercoat of the car finish can mask bubbles around the jack points and inside the wheel arches.

[geargrinder]

I am starting to see the rust creep on other e39s/e46s of the same vintage. Check your door/hood/trunk seams, gas filler area, front/lower rockers, inside rear wheel, and rear quarters where the bumper meets. Look carefully too, the textured undercoat of the car finish can mask bubbles around the jack points and inside the wheel arches.

Those are good tips for watch-out places. On a touring (not OP's target but just for the record) it is also classic to rust inside the glass hatch in the lower lefthand corner - same kind of 'cracks and crannies' principle as your list.

But I live in rust-salt-belt and don't see much rust on E39's/E46's yet as long as the 1. paint hasn't been violated from accidents, or 2. car hasn't been really ridden hard and put away wet (for example countryside dirt-road cars that have lots of stone chips and spent their life with lots of mud and dirt trapping moisture into the undercarriage crevices - saw a 540 like that not long ago that got parted because it was just too far gone).

[Bandem]

I'm looking at a 2003 540i Sport with about 120K on the odo.

Too much


Car appears to be in great shape

Trust me...its not.


aside from reading through threads here I don't know exactly what I might be getting myself into. I want a daily driver; am I barking up the wrong tree?

Yes...yes you are.



Common problem areas or maintenance needs at the stated mileage?


Everything

[E5CAP3]

Too much



Trust me...its not.



Yes...yes you are.



Everything

This is inaccurate and unhelpful. 120K is not much if the vehicle has been properly maintained. Many people offload their cars at 70-80K to avoid the big 80-100K mile service, and charge a premium for the fact that it is low mileage, and then the new owner has to front the cost of the major maintenance. In addition, a lot of things that go bad are more age related than mileage. I would rather get a higher mileage car that has had everything replaced and is good overall for a while, as opposed to a car that is about to need a major service.

[tmvE39E53Z32TT]

^Agree. If only some can restrain from unhelpful post.
120k miles well-maintained E39 > unknown history ~80k miles E39
I bought mine at 156k miles, not even think twice knowing what I got myself into.

[avatar77]

Is it this one? https://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/4352193613.html
You got some good advices on here. I got mine for $6k and give it some love and maintenance. I settle for AT for 2 reasons: rush hour traffic and wife's back-up car. When I feel the need to row the gears, I'll bring out my Z32 verTT.
Let me know if you want some local help/opinion. Here's another one closer to 100k miles mark https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/4314811633.html

Yup, that first one is it. I'll have to double check on that second one - I assumed because the ad is a month old it sold, and it being in Asheville (I'm in Atlanta) it's just far enough away that I hadn't bothered calling the seller. I actually started looking at this one: http://atlanta.craigslist.org/nat/cto/4350806438.html, but was a little put off when the additional pictures the seller sent showed a rougher version of the car. That said, with a little one at home and (hopefully) another coming in the next year or two, I would definitely go for a touring if the right one came up. I also think euro-wagons are just damn cool. But yeah, I'd certainly appreciate any Atlanta-specific advice you have.

[manticore33]

Those are good tips for watch-out places. On a touring (not OP's target but just for the record) it is also classic to rust inside the glass hatch in the lower lefthand corner - same kind of 'cracks and crannies' principle as your list.

But I live in rust-salt-belt and don't see much rust on E39's/E46's yet as long as the 1. paint hasn't been violated from accidents, or 2. car hasn't been really ridden hard and put away wet (for example countryside dirt-road cars that have lots of stone chips and spent their life with lots of mud and dirt trapping moisture into the undercarriage crevices - saw a 540 like that not long ago that got parted because it was just too far gone).

That is interesting. I feel my car might be an exception more than a rule (I had a 200k 528iA with zero rust including the filler area, but original from VA, and Pittsburgh is just rough on anything). However, I've seen enough e39s/e46s in my area to want to avoid buying anything North of the Ohio River. I see tons of cars out of New England/NY/NJ that peak my interest, but I just do not want to deal with it again. Granted, when I bought my 530i, I bought it as a fixer, but not a super fixer on body work. :\

[geargrinder]

That is interesting. I feel my car might be an exception more than a rule (I had a 200k 528iA with zero rust including the filler area, but original from VA, and Pittsburgh is just rough on anything). However, I've seen enough e39s/e46s in my area to want to avoid buying anything North of the Ohio River. I see tons of cars out of New England/NY/NJ that peak my interest, but I just do not want to deal with it again. Granted, when I bought my 530i, I bought it as a fixer, but not a super fixer on body work. :\

yeah absolutely if you're talking the option to source a dry-climate car vs a salt-belt (or seaside-salt-air to be honest, sometimes those are worse...) car, sure why not. some people go fanatical to rule out automatically cars from the north, but there are cars up here that are well cared for, you just want to confirm it. my M3 is a MD -> MA car all it's life, i'm the 3rd owner, i never drive it in winter and the 2nd owner stored it winters too and was OCD about it, it's a MEGA clean car and you'd never guess it was mid-atlantic - new england salt-belt all its life because of that. even my 540 which was daily'd by PO's year round looks pretty immaculate underneath too...

[Bandem]

This is inaccurate and unhelpful. 120K is not much if the vehicle has been properly maintained. Many people offload their cars at 70-80K to avoid the big 80-100K mile service, and charge a premium for the fact that it is low mileage, and then the new owner has to front the cost of the major maintenance. In addition, a lot of things that go bad are more age related than mileage. I would rather get a higher mileage car that has had everything replaced and is good overall for a while, as opposed to a car that is about to need a major service.

Nothing I said is inaccurate, its my opinion. I'm basing it on this thing...oh whats the word for it? Oh right...EXPERIENCE. If a person doesn't know how to fix these cars and doesn't know exactly what to look for during purchase, you're in for a bad time. Plain and simple.

[aspensilver540]

I'm looking at a 2003 540i Sport with about 120K on the odo. Car appears to be in great shape and I will get a PPI, but aside from reading through threads here I don't know exactly what I might be getting myself into. I want a daily driver; am I barking up the wrong tree? Common problem areas or maintenance needs at the stated mileage? I know that not all 120K cars are created equally, but from what I've read it seems that many of you are enjoying your e39s daily at even higher mileages. TIA


Depends what you want from a DD. If you want max reliability, this isn't it. Frequent maintenance -- cooling system (entire thing and at 120K its due), oil leaks, control arm bushings/thrust arm, window regulators/door actuators. Can be made somewhat reliable with extensive maintenance -- still wouldn't trust it as much as Japanese vehicles.

[geargrinder]

Nothing I said is inaccurate, its my opinion. I'm basing it on this thing...oh whats the word for it? Oh right...EXPERIENCE. If a person doesn't know how to fix these cars and doesn't know exactly what to look for during purchase, you're in for a bad time. Plain and simple.

I don't disagree with the factual parts of this at all. it's just the approach and attitude that was unhelpful - the first post was pretty much a drop-in-and-trollbomb approach with zero facts or explanation. If it had ended with your last sentence here it'd have been 10x better.


Depends what you want from a DD. If you want max reliability, this isn't it. Frequent maintenance -- cooling system (entire thing and at 120K its due), oil leaks, control arm bushings/thrust arm, window regulators/door actuators. Can be made somewhat reliable with extensive maintenance -- still wouldn't trust it as much as Japanese vehicles.

This is a more pleasant way of conveying pretty much the same sentiments.

[avatar77]

The key is definitely patience. I missed out on a really nice 97 that had been completely rebuilt due to a mixup over the vehicle value at my bank. After that I checked out a couple of other cars over the course of the next 6-9 months, until I finally found my new one. I think the key is don't jump on a vehicle because you're worried about the pool of viable options. I actually had my wife talk me out of the 2003 with the thrashed interior, and I'm glad she did, because soon after I found mine.


Is it this one? https://atlanta.craigslist.org/eat/cto/4352193613.html
You got some good advices on here. I got mine for $6k and give it some love and maintenance. I settle for AT for 2 reasons: rush hour traffic and wife's back-up car. When I feel the need to row the gears, I'll bring out my Z32 verTT.
Let me know if you want some local help/opinion. Here's another one closer to 100k miles mark https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/4314811633.html


IMO... a manual 540 and an auto are dramatically different cars in the driving experience. Way more than I expected, and I"m a car guy with lots of time in lots of cars.

The ZF slushbox and BMW programming Sport mode is good if you have to have such a thing - if I was a rush-hour commuter and had to drive a slush it would be high on my list and its perfectly decent for that sort of thing (aka torque converter auto). But the manual transmission does transform the experience of driving the car and your perception of the engine. IMO. FWIW. etc.


Depends what you want from a DD. If you want max reliability, this isn't it. Frequent maintenance -- cooling system (entire thing and at 120K its due), oil leaks, control arm bushings/thrust arm, window regulators/door actuators. Can be made somewhat reliable with extensive maintenance -- still wouldn't trust it as much as Japanese vehicles.

Ok gents, here is the quick and dirty version of the service records for the 118K 2003 540i that I referenced in my earlier posts - looks like a lot of the major stuff has been done at some point and there was some work on the cooling system early on. Would love to get your thoughts:



2003 BMW 540i


Milage
Service Performed


25,000
Thermostat Replaced



Fuel Tank Vent Valve Replaced


32,000
Alternator Replaced



Water Pump Replaced


Drive Belts Replaced


62,000
Headcover Gasket Replaced



Radiator Replaced


Rocker Cover Gasket Replaced


78,000
Thermostat Replaced



Drive Belts Replaced


89,000
Valey Pen Gasket Replaced


92,000
O2 Sensor Replaced


100,000
Transmission Oil Replaced



Brake Fluid Replaced


Valve Cover Gasket Replaced


Upper Timing Chain Cover Gasket Replaced


Spark Plugs Replaced


Power Steering Hoses & Fluid Replaced


102,000
Fan Clutch Replaced


106,000
Rear L & R Wishbone Replaced



Rear L & R Guiding Link Replaced


Rear L & R Ball Joint Replaced


Rear L & R Stabilizer Link Replaced


Differential Fluid Replaced

[aspensilver540]

Looks like a car with a reasonable service record, although headgasket on V8 is pretty uncommon, that is the only potential red flag I see. It's been a long time though.

[packrat555]

I purchased similar car two years ago with $58,000 miles, paid $16,000. In 40,000 miles I have spent $5000 on parts doing most everything list here and a few other items.

This car looks like most has been done except the front suspension links ($500 parts) and shocks. beware the shocks are M5 part numbers and more than $1000 a set, there is no oem alternative. I went aftermarket with the koni for about $700. Finish the suspension and it should drive good to 200,000 miles.

As you can see it looks like cooling systems and valve cover gaskets every 50K on these cars. If you do the work yourself and shop at pelicanparts it is not bad. The cars looks very clean i'd would not hesitate going for it.

[avatar77]

I purchased similar car two years ago with $58,000 miles, paid $16,000. In 40,000 miles I have spent $5000 on parts doing most everything list here and a few other items.

This car looks like most has been done except the front suspension links ($500 parts) and shocks. beware the shocks are M5 part numbers and more than $1000 a set, there is no oem alternative. I went aftermarket with the koni for about $700. Finish the suspension and it should drive good to 200,000 miles.

As you can see it looks like cooling systems and valve cover gaskets every 50K on these cars. If you do the work yourself and shop at pelicanparts it is not bad. The cars looks very clean i'd would not hesitate going for it.

Thanks, that makes sense. Question, you said there's no aftermarket alternative for the shocks but then said you went with Konis. Aren't those an aftermarket alternative?

[geargrinder]

Thanks, that makes sense. Question, you said there's no aftermarket alternative for the shocks but then said you went with Konis. Aren't those an aftermarket alternative?

He means the shocks are M5 parts and there isn't a non-M5/540-only part alternative from BMW so you go w/ aftermarket. That's not strictly true as you could downgrade to the non-M Sport suspension struts I suppose, but it is true that the "correct" parts are "M priced", and besides the Koni is probably a good upgrade from the OEM part anyway...

[IndiansFan]

^Agree. If only some can restrain from unhelpful post.
120k miles well-maintained E39 > unknown history ~80k miles E39
I bought mine at 156k miles, not even think twice knowing what I got myself into.

Very sound advice.........
I bought my 528iT with 150K miles to be my DD. The deal closer was the third pedal and that it had been serviced by Koala Motorsports for several years prior to my purchase. I now have 252K and rust at the four jack points and the rear hatch. Mechanically it's in great shape.

[geargrinder]

I purchased similar car two years ago with $58,000 miles, paid $16,000. In 40,000 miles I have spent $5000 on parts doing most everything list here and a few other items.

Forgot to reply to this too... yeah. That was exactly the market 2-3 years ago - but even for a lowish miles car like that, prices have dropped considerably since everybody expects an old E39 to go for $8k now. Makes for good deals now, little tough for those of us who bought in just before the cliff...