Valeo Single Mass Flywheel m50

[Lucroaneth]

I am considering doing a SMF from Valeo on my m50NV with a ZF transmission. This is the link to the FCP page for the kit I'm considering. http://************/potvhjr Has anyone done this conversion using this kit? I also see that it says not to be used with Motronic. what issues will this cause? to my knowledge pretty much all the e34s use some version of Motronic. If major issues are probable can anyone recommend another flywheel/clutch kit for around the same price? it doesn't need to be single mass. if the price is an issue i would have no problem investing in a megasquirt or others to get around the Motronic issue.

[south42]

How about a single mass from a m20 from either the e30 or e28. You have to also change the starter to the m20 starter. The 82 528e has the lighter fly wheel. Should be able to get fly wheel for 90 shipped and a starter for 35 to 45 shipped. Would have to get the clutch and plate for the m20.


Andy

[Mark185]

How about a single mass from a m20 from either the e30 or e28. You have to also change the starter to the m20 starter. The 82 528e has the lighter fly wheel. Should be able to get fly wheel for 90 shipped and a starter for 35 to 45 shipped. Would have to get the clutch and plate for the m20.


Andy

You also have to get the back side of the M20 flywheel machined to avoid interference with the M50 block. That added cost along with the need for an M20 starter is what kept me from going down that path. The amount of labor involved in changing a starter is too much for me to trust a $35-45 used starter and I do all my own work. The Valeo kit is very cost effective if it is reliable. The link in the first post from Lucroaneth is not right but I am pretty sure the Valeo kit he referenced is about $550. I have seen it in my searches for parts. Yes, you can do this cheaper but my time is worth something to me also. I prefer new parts when it comes to starters and flywheels on my inline 6 bimmers. I don't want to do this job over again in a year or two and I keep my cars for the long haul.

[5Toes]

you want to change your flywheel and you are worried about the starter being too much work to change later on.. come on dude

what makes your starter better than the next? they are all about the same age anyways

[Lucroaneth]

Okay not sure what happened with the link. The cost of the kit is $420. Its flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bolts, and throwout bearing. It does have that note about not working with motronic engine management. Would doing the m20 swap get around this? Or are there any tricks to getting around the motronic system?

[5Toes]

contact sssquid tuning on r3v and get a custom chip... its $150

[Mark185]

you want to change your flywheel and you are worried about the starter being too much work to change later on.. come on dude

what makes your starter better than the next? they are all about the same age anyways

Have you done this job yet? I have multiple times. The starter is buried under the intake manifold on the M50 engine and replacing it is a PITA if you don't pull the intake manifold off. I have been doing this a very long time, I was a professional mechanic in my 20's, and have a lift in my home garage. Even with that advantage, I don't want to risk putting a used starter in when doing a clutch or flywheel job. It isn't worth it for me to risk spending another 3-4 hours changing out a used starter if it craps out. A new or reman Bosch starter will last for at least 150K miles in my experience. I prefer to go with those odds rather than put a used one in with unknown miles on it. My time is more valuable to me than the extra $100 I will spend on a reman Bosch unit.

My original point was that converting to an M20 single mass flywheel is not that cost effective compared to buying M50 parts made by Valeo. The only way an M20 clutch conversion saves you money is if you have the parts laying around from other cars you owned, you work at a salvage yard, or you have friends in the business that can hook you up with cheap parts and cheap labor to machine the backside of the M20 flywheel so it will work on the M50 engine.

- - - Updated - - -


Okay not sure what happened with the link. The cost of the kit is $420. Its flywheel, clutch, pressure plate, bolts, and throwout bearing. It does have that note about not working with motronic engine management. Would doing the m20 swap get around this? Or are there any tricks to getting around the motronic system?

I am not understanding this. All E34's had Motronic engine computers although the versions changed between 89-95. Also, the flywheel should not have anything to do with Motronic unless it is related to the flywheel weight and its impact on idle quality. There are some aftermarket engine tunes that will bump up the idle speed a little bit to compensate for lighter flywheels and their propensity to stall off the line. That usually only applies to really light flywheels and I doubt the Valeo kit falls in that category. Without seeing the specific Valeo kit you are talking about and what it says in the link, I can't say more.

[Lucroaneth]

http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-clutch-kit-323i-323is-325-325e-325es-325i-325is-525i-52281208

Hopefully this link works.
The weight is supposedly the same as the dual mass flywheel. My only thought about the moronic system not working is maybe there is a rotational counter on the flywheel like for moronic 1.3.

I think I will get the kit and the sssquid chip and call it a day. No reason to mess with an old flywheel and starter.

[m735is]

The ad must be referring to the earlier m20 cars that had a trigger on the flywheel with speed and ref sensors mounted to the tranny bell house. Probably not applicable to the m50 cars.

[Lucroaneth]

That makes sense. Thanks for all the contributions everyone. I'll give an update after I get everything installed.

[5Toes]

Have you done this job yet? I have multiple times. The starter is buried under the intake manifold on the M50 engine and replacing it is a PITA if you don't pull the intake manifold off. I have been doing this a very long time, I was a professional mechanic in my 20's, and have a lift in my home garage. Even with that advantage, I don't want to risk putting a used starter in when doing a clutch or flywheel job. It isn't worth it for me to risk spending another 3-4 hours changing out a used starter if it craps out. A new or reman Bosch starter will last for at least 150K miles in my experience. I prefer to go with those odds rather than put a used one in with unknown miles on it. My time is more valuable to me than the extra $100 I will spend on a reman Bosch unit.

I have on my e30, but I can pull the intake on my nonvanos in 40 minutes... its pretty easy. not to sound like a dick but I dont think it is really all that big of a hassle.

[Lucroaneth]

Pulling the starter wouldn't be too bad with the tranny off. You undo all the bolts for it anyways.

[5mall5nail5]

Pulling the starter is cake. It takes about 30 mins to remove and reinstall, I've done it no issue a number of times.

FWIW it cost me $40 to have a single mass M20 flywheel resurfaced. You don't need to have the backside machined, it doesn't interfere with the block it interferes with the washers and some casting flash on the E34 oil pan. You can grind it down no problem.

http://jonkensy.com/gallery1/albums/userpics/10001/Jon_Kensy_Photo_101023_IMG_6612.jpg

[Lucroaneth]

So after every setback possible with a custom exhaust system I got the car back together with the valeo SMF and clutch kit. I've put about 300 miles on it and its very nice. No gear rattle, nice smooth idle, and very nice engagement. I highly recommend it if the m20 conversion seems like too much work.

[cddallara]

if the Valeo smf is the same weight as a stock dual mass, why go with it?

I got m20 parts because the whole drivetrain is changing, but honestly curious as to why spend the $420 for the same weight? I thought the idea behind going single mass was the weight savings. :confused

[Lucroaneth]

Just by feel I'd say it was about 4-6 lbs lighter than what I had.The throttle response is better now for sure. The other advantage is you can machine it when you do the next clutch job and not source a new flywheel. You might be able to do that with the m20 conversion but that all depends on how much was left after machining the first time.

[5mall5nail5]

No machining needed on an M20 swap Resurfacing flywheels is not removing much material at all. It's more about reestablishing the texture than removing material.

[Dann402]

So what did you end up using for the motronic? Chip? Or it worked like that?

[Lucroaneth]

Turns out no software is needed for the conversion. Its been about a year since installation and I'm happy with it. Money well spent.

[azure]

I'm doing this same Valeo kit install (kit with SMF, bearing, clutch & pressure plate), and I've come across a weird problem. I'm also doing a 5speed conversion at the same time with a ZF 5 speed (I believe it's an S5D310Z).

I've installed the flywheel, but the 6 pins on the back (engine side) of the flywheel catch on the protrusion around the little portal at the bottom you use to remove the AT flywheel to torque converter bolts from the front. In short, the flywheel can't rotate more than 1/6th of a turn. Did you have any problems with this? I'm wondering if there are different versions of the oil pan, but Realoem reckons they're all the same for the M50/E34.