Poor Heater Performance on the E60

[Gator325525]

I've been driving the E60 the last couple mornings when it has been brutally cold (that's low 30s for us here in Florida) and I've noticed that with the climate control set to automatic it takes a really long time for the interior of the car to warm up (approx. 15-20 mins) to a comfortable temperature. I'm wondering if any other E60 owners have had similar issues. Unfortunately, because my car is a Florida car it doesn't have the cold weather package so the interior heater is all I've got to go with on frigid days like these.

I know, I know, you guys up north dealing with -18 below zero and 24 inches of snow aren't going to have any pity on me having to deal with the low 30s but it's still pretty damn cold if you're not used to it.

I seem to recall a poster mentioning that the E60 had a poorly designed heating system but I can't seem to find the post now. Anybody having similar issues with the E60 not warming up the interior? Hopefully I'm not the only one, misery loving company and all!

[atc1949]

Did you adjust the heat/A/C settings on your iDrive? I had the opposite problem the first summer I had mine with the A/C and the service rep showed me how to adjust for heat and A/C on the iDrive. It shows you how in the manual.

Tom

[pbonsalb]

My wife just complained about heat on our 2008 E61 535xit (and a couple of other things) so I dropped it off at the dealer. There was an I Drive setting that was low. She had checked, but it was not immediately apparent to her. It was the "blend door" setting that needed to be changed for the colder weather.

[ins0ma]

Check the iDrive settings for sure. You can go up to 4 red bars (I think) and the heat blazes.

[cmyachtie]

Compared to any other car or the 3 previous BMW's I have owned or driven over the past 50 or so odd years the heating system in my E60 totally is the worst I have ever experienced and I have done everything and done some extensive research on this baby ...
after driving for more than 30 mins it gets better but to get heat (not just lukewarm air) coming out in the footwell is impossible....If I could locate a decent 2003 E39 w/o rust this E60 would be history in a flasH..........

[ss109]

Most complaints regarding this issue are due to the somewhat obscure blend setting in IDrive.

[ins0ma]

Here's the iDrive tab you need to find. It's hard for me to imagine that the heat in these cars is in any way inadequate: when it's set to 4 red bars, as in the photo, it'll dry your eyeballs in short order regardless of the outdoor temp. Also note the adjustable levels for different zones.

492051

[cmyachtie]

Here's the iDrive tab you need to find. It's hard for me to imagine that the heat in these cars is in any way inadequate: when it's set to 4 red bars, as in the photo, it'll dry your eyeballs in short order regardless of the outdoor temp. Also note the adjustable levels for different zones.

492051

That is exactly my problem my eyeballs drying out and feet staying cool...............unless I place these bars on blue but eitherway whether these bars are blue or red, airflow to the feet stay lukewarm!!

[jbaker545i]

An additional thing is that you could check to make sure that your coolant is full.

[1989bmw]

The "Vent Settings" cold and hot bars only adjusts the air temperature that discharges from the center vents. It has no affect on the temperature of the defrost or footwells. They are adjusted with the two heater temperature knobs.

- - - Updated - - -

I also cannot get heat out of my E60 (2007). Also, the Auto setting will turn the defroster on full blast for the first 15 minutes regardless of how cold it is. This is caused by the condensation sensor sensing condensation on the windshield when there is none. I replaced the condensation sensor $125.00) and it still does it. So I am still looking for help other than replacing the thermostat. But the BMW morons deleted the temperature gauge in 2007, so I do not know if the engine is reaching temperature. So, do I spend two days and $300.00 to have the thermostat replaced?

[cmyachtie]

Yeah, in my case the thermostat is OK as the engine temp. is good and is at temp in a couple of mins driving (can still read temp in my 2004)..LOL
I have been searching for coding setting in IHKA module to see if they are at all adjustable and am hoping to find some.....if I do will start playing with that and see what if any improvements I get, that being said after an hour or more of driving it does seem to be OK for me just the first half hour or so sucks with this car.....and with only 76000kms the hoses and valve should still be ok.

[1989bmw]

To CMYACHTIE: I posted my great irritation, below, about the non-functioning heater in my 2007 E60. None of the replies on this thread have offered a plausible explanation. Isn't there someone who has an explanation. I already replaced my condensation sensor.
Thankfully, I never sold my 2000 E39 and I am going to put that back on the road. For three years, I never had to touch my heater controls. With my 2007 heater control and iDrive combination I spend more time adjusting that than I do driving the car.

[kaineb]

There are items that affect the HVAC that i have ran into. If it is something out of the ordinary then you are in for a bit of troubleshooting and better left to the dealer or indy.

(1) Thermostat : You should monitor your temps via a scanner with the capabilities to see if the thermostat is sticking open partially. If the engine temp takes a really long time to come up this is likely your issue.
(2) Heater Valve : These do fail at a decent rate and its a simple change. Located on the drivers side under hood.
(3) Battery : My IHKA lost a bit of wind force one day and i couldnt figure out what the issue was. This lasted over several days. Even though i had a new-ish aftermarket battery earlier that year, once i replaced it with OEM it was all back to normal.
(4) Controls : I have ran into bad IHKA controls that required a replacement.

[1989bmw]

Hi kaineb. Thanks for your tips. Another problem: In Auto mode the automatic control turns all flow to the defrosters full blast for at least 10 minutes (if I allow it).
The very obvious problem is the condensation sensor which supposedly senses condensation and routes all air to the defrosters. There is no condensation. So I replaced the condensation sensors (posted above). No change. Interestingly, the sensor is not visually sensing the windshield. It adheres to the black section behind the interior mirror.
So, what does route all air to the defrosters even when the outside temperature was minus 4 degrees.
Thanks again kaineb.
JB

[meangreen94z]

It's not going to be your thermostat. If it were jammed open the DME would detect the extended warmup period and set a fault(resulting in a check engine light).

what I have found common on E60's:
1)water valves overheat and the valves stick shut. They are normally open, powered closed. So if you unplug the water valve, the coolant temperature should be nearly identical coming in and going out of the valve to the heater core. There are two valves and two hoses going out to the heater core.
2) Watered down/mixed coolant gelling in the hose leading to the water valve, due to lack of flow during warmer months.
3) implausible temperature sensor. There are multiple sensors( footwell, vent, etc.) on both sides of the interior but I typically see issues with the heater core sensor and the evaporator temperature sensor. Sometimes they are off 20-30*F or more. I wouldn't rule out any of them though. You can view their measurement in status requests on various Euro capable scanners to check plausibility.

[1989bmw]

Thanks meangreen94z. I'll try unplugging the water valves to the heater core. It is another disappointment that BMW eliminated the temperature gauge around 2007. they had it before and they added it back later.
My e39 was not giving out much heat and the temperature gauge showed cold. Easy diagnosis.

- - - Updated - - -

I have another unresolved problem. As soon as I start the car, the Auto setting on the heater sends 100% flow to the defrosters at full blower setting. At 4 degrees the air is rather cold. I suspected the condensation sensor and I replaced it and nothing is better. It stays this way for at least ten minutes if I allow it.
I then have to manually shut down the fan and flow settings. So what is next?
Thanks again meangreen94z and kaineb!

[meangreen94z]

I have another unresolved problem. As soon as I start the car, the Auto setting on the heater sends 100% flow to the defrosters at full blower setting. At 4 degrees the air is rather cold. I suspected the condensation sensor and I replaced it and nothing is better. It stays this way for at least ten minutes if I allow it.
I then have to manually shut down the fan and flow settings. So what is next?
Thanks again meangreen94z and kaineb!
That's probably something Id have to look at in person, but sounds familiar. Let me think about it.

[1989bmw]

Well, I guess that is the end of this thread. The heater problems are unresolved.
Thanks for the help.

[cmyachtie]

I have (I think) found a "workaround" that seems to have solved my problem rather easily. Once I drive the car for say 15-20 mins and things are warmed up decently I turn off the auto and go into iDrive and close my top two vents completely so I only get air flow on my feet and passenger feet. Leave it like that untill I need some air on the windshield again and then once the bottom of the car is comfortable go back to the auto setting. I believe there is no solution other than this for my problem seems to be a designed "feature" they must have had some ex microsoft engineers in Munich that year..............
Hope that helps someone out there....

[pbonsalb]

I posted earlier in this thread, after we took the car to the dealer and they adjusted the blend setting. Unfortunately, this did not fully fix the problem. There is now sufficient heat at idle or in town, but on the highway, there is not. We will take it back to the dealer and ask it to check again, including the heater control valve. I know those valves give way with age on the old E36 and would not be surprised if the internals also fail with time on the E60.

[eman2007]

I Got a fix move down south??

[cmyachtie]

I would but my better half is not so enthusiastic about that.LOL

[pbonsalb]

We have had the car for several years, and did not experience this the first 3 winters, so something has happened that can be fixed. Not sure we need to move yet, though there are times when it has snowed twice in a week or been around 0 F for a few days when going south for a week would be nice.

[carbonblack69]

That's probably something Id have to look at in person, but sounds familiar. Let me think about it.

Do you have the aircon button pushed on (illuminated), even when the outside temp is cold on startup? If not, make sure you do as the cc will dehumidify the cabin quicker and then warm up the air quicker. It's counter intuitive, but it works on my e60

[cmyachtie]

Do you have the aircon button pushed on (illuminated), even when the outside temp is cold on startup? If not, make sure you do as the cc will dehumidify the cabin quicker and then warm up the air quicker. It's counter intuitive, but it works on my e60
Now you mention this, I think we have something here, as lately I have been leaving the AC button alone where as before I used to turn it off (thinking I did not want any colder air than what I was getting, and then it was not cold enough for the AC compressor not to run), however since we have been in this polar vortex freezing our you know whats off lately I have left the AC on and it has been better.........

[70383roadrunner]

I have the same issue with my 08 528i. It takes about 30 min and about 12 miles to get sufficient heat. Took it to the dealer. They said there was nothing wrong. I accessed the hidden engine temp in the dash cluster and I can see it takes the motor about 30 min to get to 80 degrees celcius which is 176 degrees Fahrenheit. Very poor design! My 25 year old E34 blows hot in 3 miles!

I firmly believe there are no current BMW mechanics (Or Techs as they are now called), that can diagnose anything that does not throw a fault code

[7fortyi]

If you've chkd the thermostat and corrected the HVAC setup within your iDrive.

Try these two common suspects. 1)The Aux Water/Heat Pump. Given the size of the e60s cooling system it's job is to mange coolant temp and keep the cabin warm while at idle. Google the forum for more detail on how to manually troubleshoot. 2) HVAC Connection. Check the 3 connections on the back of the HVAC control unit. If you've recently removed the part it's likely you didn't seat them correctly. There should be no wiggles or loose connects.

[70383roadrunner]

If you've chkd the thermostat and corrected the HVAC setup within your iDrive.

Try these two common suspects. 1)The Aux Water/Heat Pump. Given the size of the e60s cooling system it's job is to mange coolant temp and keep the cabin warm while at idle. Google the forum for more detail on how to manually troubleshoot. 2) HVAC Connection. Check the 3 connections on the back of the HVAC control unit. If you've recently removed the part it's likely you didn't seat them correctly. There should be no wiggles or loose connects.

If it takes the motor that long to get to operating temp which I can see in the hidden menu in the dash cluster has more to do with a possible open thermostat rather than aux water pump.

[cmyachtie]

Aux heater valve is good as I get hot when parked and run RES.
Thermostat is good, engine comes to temp in 5mins when heat from automatic setting starts, problem is that very little hot air comes into drivers footwell, for instance when I turn auto setting off and open only the footwell vent in iDrive and turn up drivers side temp control up to high+fan all the way up and leave passenger on say 20 C( average temp) I can feel hot air coming into my face from the passenger footwell side but still very little from the drivers footwell...
If I drive for an hour on auto setting with temp controls on say 20-24 C it will take forever to get warm feet and get lots of hot air blowing in my face from the windshield area especially the passenger's side.

[7fortyi]

Have you personally removed the HVAC control unit for any reason? Is the air conditioning compressor working when switched on?

I was chasing a very similar issue and found the problem to be a bad connector. My symptom was that the HVAC controls worked but the air would often come from random vents. The air temp would also fluctuate from the setting - too hot or too cool. After replacing the connector all has been perfect.

Any codes present??

[7fortyi]

Also confirm whether you have a LCI or non-LCI e60. Im starting to lean towards the thermostat but check for related codes and reply with an update.

[70383roadrunner]

I have the LCI. Just ran out to do some shopping. Back and forth was about 10 miles and about a half hour and the engine temp only got up to 70 degrees Celsius which is 158 degrees Fahrenheit (http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=4&cad=rja&uact=8&ved=0CDAQFjAD&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffahrenheittocelsius.com%2F&ei=4AXmVMr6B9besASWj4GgCQ&usg=AFQjCNE3ndczRAMsZ3ysJS-agROGdr-I8A&sig2=RA_nZvxySB60tsn3PL0a8A). No codes but I still think it is the thermostat stuck open and needs replacement. It blows lukewarm air until it finally gets to about 85 degrees Celsius/185 deg Far.

See. This is part of the problem. Dealer mechanics are only doing to replace something if there is a code present. In my mind it could still be bad even if there is no code present. It doesn't take any car that long to come up to engine temp!

[cmyachtie]

Have you personally removed the HVAC control unit for any reason? Is the air conditioning compressor working when switched on?

I was chasing a very similar issue and found the problem to be a bad connector. My symptom was that the HVAC controls worked but the air would often come from random vents. The air temp would also fluctuate from the setting - too hot or too cool. After replacing the connector all has been perfect.

Any codes present??

Mine is non LCI, running with the OEM M-ASK.

I did a few months ago remove the HVAC control unit as I installed my AUX input then but my heating problem was there before and still is unchanged, AC works great in summers. My air controls/vent settings seem to behave as they should as they are being changed.
Temps from footwell has never been too hot for over three years my wife does always complain about too much hot air in her face as passenger.

Which connector did you replace??

[Kamiler]

My HVAC is screwed up in my E60. Its been like that since i got it back in July. I had my dad plug in his scanner and it showed a code that was 9C7B. Interior temperature sensor fan or something. I have no idea where that sensor is located. Im pretty sure its busted. Because it always blows warm/hot air on my front window, and sometimes the footwell (in the summer). So in the summer my A/C does alright but at the same time hot air is being blown on my window... lol