Is an old E36 M3 still worth it in the future?

[Metal Made Fox]

Hi guys, I have always loved the sharp and clean look of the E36 M3. In my opinion, it is the most beautiful M3 ever made. There is just something about that small squared off boxy look that I just love of it.

Anyways, I am hoping to acquire one later on in the future (in probably 1 more year). I currently drive an E39 530i that I love! However I have always wanted one of the older E36 M3's. I suppose you can say that it's one of my dream cars (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/#). So, I am considering selling my 530i next year to buy an E36 M3.

Let's face it though, time is flying by. Cars are getting newer with much more technology, power, and efficiency. My question to you guys is; would it still be worth it to buy such an old car? Keep in mind that this would be my daily driver as well as my "have fun" car. Would parts still be easy to find for the E36 M3 in the future? How about reliability? I am a DIY kind of guy and have no problem learning how to properly change out parts and give the appropriate maintenance on a car.

I would really love an E36 M3, but if I bought one next year I would at the same time feel like I'm driving an obsolete car, and some how get the feeling of being left behind in the automotive world.

So, what do you guys think? Should I fulfill my little dream of owning an M3? (is it even still considered a car of respect even if it's more than 20 years old?) Or is it now considered an obsolete car no better than an old Honda? Does that ///M badge still carry the respect that it came with 20 years ago?

How long do you think you will keep your E36 M3? If I do buy one I would love to keep it for the rest of my life. You guys seriously don't know how much I am in love with these cars.

[Chasedrk1]

My neighbor owns 2 79' dodge darts my other neighbor owns an old fiat spider (don't know the year).
As shitty as they were new, they are still gems today. Neither are daily drivers though. An M in your garage waiting on the weekend to come is an M with a long happy life yet to come. As with all cars they have quirks that become more apparent with age.

My question is do you want your dream car to be your ONLY car?

[Rudolph320i]

all you have to do is watch the older generations. clean e30s are on the rise and e36s will follow.

[arabsensation10]

If you are that much in love with it then I think the answer is obvious...

I've had mine for over 2 years now and it's done daily driver duty for all of that time. If you find a clean example and keep up with preventative maintenance, it's quite reliable.

[284Shooter]

I drove our '04 ZHP 400 miles yesterday. Took my '95 M to the gym today and it put a smile on my face just shifting into second gear. The newer car is more comfortable, quieter and gets better has mileage but with the exception of the seats I prefer the e36 in every way. Caveat, mine is a weekend car. It would get old as a daily but I'm no spring chicken anymore so maybe that's the years talking.

[peacoben]

Well I just sold my E39 530i and got an E36 M3 a few weeks ago!! As much as I loved the E39 (I'll have an E39 M5 one day), I really love the E36 so far!

[antik]

Pick one up, for sure.

Mine has served primarily as a daily driver for me for the last 7 years. I've added a CD/XM/Bluetooth head unit to it but otherwise, I just keep it in good repair.

It still brings a smile to my face on a sunny day. I was still excited to wash it today since the weather was so ridiculously warm. I still routinely find myself double-taking at the vehicle as I walk toward/away from it while it's parked.

No it's not the same as the cars that drive around now but in many ways, I feel that's a big point in its favor. I also enjoy the fact that it's all mechanical instead of drive-by-wire both for the feel and because there's no electronics to misbehave!

And yes, it's still respected. I had a work acquaintance who drives a Jeep SRT8 tell me to "stop showing off" in it (parked next to him at a light, do nothing other than looking at him to get him to roll his window down) and tell me he "used to pray to that car." Occasionally I'll get approached by someone who admires the car and wants to look the car over - they're always very complimentary of it. Those who know what they are respect them. The rest don't care one way or another anyway. Ultimately, none of it matters at all so long as You respect and enjoy it!

[ChrisV990]

There's something to be said about these 'older' cars.

You look at the new cars with their drive-by-wire throttle, traction control, launch control, etc., etc,. (not just talking about BMWs) and with all the advancements in technology it's really taken the fun out of knowing how to drive a car. Not only is there more things to go wrong when something breaks but on top of that these modern day cars basically take an idiot driver and make him that much better.

I like the simplicity of the E36 M3. Once you get rid of the shitty traction control it's one of those cars that needs to know how to be driven.

I speculate that one day these things will probably be somewhat collectible. It might not be anytime soon but I'd venture to say 20 or so years from now they might command a high dollar like the E30 M3.

[ThreeD]

I don't care for almost all newer cars and mine isn't a daily driver but was for two years and I had no issues with that. Loved and still love driving the car, I won't be selling it for a very very long time if I ever sell it...parts will always be available thanks to our vendors and parts cars. I don't see the car ever gaining value like the E30 M3, production #s were too high, but I don't care.

It's happiest as a weekend car, I got annoyed driving it as a daily because of the worry of other people hitting it, etc. Just love driving it, working on it, looking at it. This car and the E46 M3 represent a sweet spot in BMWs years to me, enough power to get you moving quick but is still beautiful, connected, and in the E36s case, raw. No nanny rev matching for you, no DBW in E36, no paddle shifter, no turbos, no GPS, no iDrive.

Looking forward to adding a STi, Z06, and Lotuses to my collection as the years pass, so you can see what type of cars I like.

[Mcdougal]

I've owned two wrxs, three evos and a few other cars. My e36 M3 is the oldest of the bunch but it drives the best. It isn't nearly as fast as the evos but it is way more comfortable to drive. It was a $50k car new and it shows in the build quality. It doesn't have the tin can feeling like you get from a lot of the newer cars. It doesn't have the electronic features of the newer cars but what can you expect from 15-year-old car?

It's my daily driver and I don't mind it at all.

Just get a clean, well-maintained car and you wont regret it. If you do youll be able to sell it for as much or more as you bought it for as they are appreciating right now.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk

[M3GeeTeeR]

Well, I'll put it to you this way:
1) If you enjoy driving, then all those "new" technological features found in new cars will not be missed or needed when puling from 2nd to 3rd and beyond. For all we know, they put those "new" features on these new cars to keep the driver distracted from driving such a boring ride. Also, keep in mind that those new cars will also become "obsolete" one day in terms of their "new" technology as the newer models out phase them as they come out. The question now becomes: "Did that "new" car with all its technological advances, have anything special about it that if 20 years were to pass, would people still be interested in buying?" The simple fact that you're contemplating on buying an E36 M3 holds testament of the cars' reputation despite the 20 years.
2) Like any other make or model vehicle, if you maintain and service the car as needed; it will not give you problems. The cost of replacement parts for the E36 of the various components that normally wear out such as tires, oil change, and the like is actually quite affordable; not to mention the insurance which is also inexpensive. Also, ask any BMW specialist on which is easier to maintain and less of a headache to solve when problems arise: "An E36 M3 or an E92 M3?" Most if not all will say the E36 M3. They will also go onto say, that the newer BMW's are much more difficult to repair since all that "new" technology added to the car is all intertwined with each other making finding the issue much more complicated.
3) As far as getting left behind in the automotive industry, I could care less. The most sought out vehicles today are almost always old and dated anyways. And if that wasn't the case, then "why would automakers make their "new" cars resemble some of their previous models?" The answer is simple: people like the old cars for their performance and design they had at that time that newer cars no longer offer. Take the E30 M3 for example, it has roughly 143hp to 175hp on the Evo version which even still, is way underpowered by today standards; yet people seek that car to this day.
4) There's an old saying that states: "Old Is Gold". This holds true for the E36 M3.

[Korath]

For your DD, buy a newer car with all the bells and whistles, fuel economy, and horsepower. For the weekend car that throws that to the wind for pure driving experience, be sure to have an E36 M3 in your garage for when the need strikes.

[Eric98Sedan]

Do you have tools? Do you have a garage? Do you have a second form of transportation?

If you answered yes to all three then the E36 may be worth considering. Oh, and stop worrying about respect.

[rajicase]

They are totally worth it.

An e36 m3 in stock form will run circles around the vast majority of cars on the road today, and with some suspension mods, even more so. And im talking about handling, which is what these cars were built for, but they still have decent power as well.

I LOVE looking at the dash and having a radio, climate control, and an OBC, and no other bells and whistles. EVERY new car im in now I feel like I am in the cock pit of an air plane. I love the raw feeling of my m3. It was built completely around the driving characteristics; luxury, comfort, gadgets, drivers assists all were on the back burner. Which is my preference.

These BMW's were the ultimate driving machine. Sadly, IMO, the new BMWs and new cars in general are the ultimate machine that drives you. They cater to the rich white collar person who either wants tons of luxury an comfort and drivers assists or something to race from red light to red light with, by stomping the gas pedal. Or both.

I can't stand it. I drove an uncles new m6 and it was appalling to me. It was wicked fast no doubt, but I felt like I was just along for the ride, rather than me driving it. I don't know, different strokes I guess, they just are not my cup of tea.

[BnGRacing]

M3's will always be worth something to someone in the future. The more time that passes the more scare they'll become;

-part outs from accidents
-ruined from broke teenage/college kid ownership not taking care of it
-accident/theft/salvaged title
-goofy mods or track cars

Finding a well documented and adult owned E36 M3 right now is a chore and you'll pay a premium for it. A documented no-rust car that passes a PPI with flying colors is a $10k car. Paint & interior still in really good shape? Add a grand. Mileage under 125k? Add a grand. 5spd & 4 doors? Add a grand. All said and done, a really nice example can run you $14k.

On the other end of the spectrum are higher mileage M's with multiple DIY'er owners that have some warts here and there. Maybe a VANOS rebuild, new bushings, driver's bolster all cracked to hell, headliner sagging, etc. While this car can be had between $6-7k, you'll spend another couple thousand to get it near the condition of the $14k car...and it will still have more miles on it.

The 1st car will become more and more rare as miles add up and little things that need attention get brushed aside. If you're looking for a weekend toy and something to hold onto for a while with the hopes of getting your money back; get car #1

If you're looking for a project or something you don't mind putting miles on, look for car #2. The tricky bit will be how well it was taken care of, how abused it was, and what will take a shit on you in the 1st year and leave you stranded waiting for AAA. What I'd recommend would be looking for a car with a stock appearance (no HIDs, custom wheels, or clears), less than 3 owners, and some evidence known problems have already been addressed. Things like the cooling system, VANOS, power steering lines, RTABs all go bad on any E36. If the PO didn't address any of those weak links, you will...eventually anyway.

As long as your compression is good on all cylinders and the transmission shifts nicely and doesn't make any noises; these cars are pretty stout. It's the little shit like headliners, trans bushings, power window regulators, switches, etc. that will nickel and dime you while taking up your free time on the weekends. Nice thing about these cars is there's a treasure trove of DIY help on the 'net and they're super easy to service. Parts are really no more expensive than any other car, just don't be surprised when you spring a little more coin for the good stuff. Why would you do that? Easy, they drive that well.

Regardless if you buy a cherry M3 or find a rescue; don't blow your whole budget on it. If you have $10k to spend, buy an $8k car. This way, if you have knock sensors go out after a month or your starter buys the farm at a gas station, you'll have the scratch to fix it quickly and well. Don't believe any owner unless they have a receipt for it and try not to fall in love with the 1st car you see. I'd also shy away from anyone selling their car after owning it less than 2 years or from anyone under the age of 25. That doesn't mean older people don't get weird on you or don't take care of their cars; they do and some are terrible to buy from.

Aside from asking to get a PPI; other questions you ask are more of a feel-out of the previous owner. Asking what oil they used and listening to how they answer will be more useful than hearing "M1 every 3,000miles". Why is that? It's because you should assume all owners are liars unless there's a receipt. Keep asking questions and if the owner gets defensive, turns his bullshit up to 11, and talks about how the things needed are "cheap to fix"; walk away. If something is cheap to fix, the owner you want to buy from would have already fixed it. That has more to do with pride of ownership than anything else. Someone proud of their car will vacuum it, wax it, and generally take care of it whereas the guy who didn't fix the cheap stuff will only clean it up and change the fluids once a "For Sale" sign is on it. If the owner gets defensive, like if you caught them in a lie or they think you might be catching them in a lie; walk away.

Nice thing about E36 M3's is there are plenty of them out there and having a little patience will pay off in the long run. Fall in love with the car after you get that perfect heel-toe downshift and feel the chassis set into a 4-wheel drift. Don't fall in love with a car when you're handing over a wad of $100's. While M3's are not a practical, the little things that you need to fix may ruin the relationship you build with it. And then you'll get sick of it, tire of all the money and time you spend on it, and sell it while assholes like myself warn potential buyers to stay away from sellers like you. While these cars are not all money pits, they all need something...usually a couple somethings...to get right. The newest examples are 15 years old; ever see a 15 year old 150,000 mile Honda that needed nothing addressed? Neither have I and those are supposed to be "reliable" cars. We have VANOS seals that go bad, they have timing belts that snap and lunch the motor. They have cars that ride like shit from day 1, so replacing suspension bits is never a priority. M3's, on the other hand, drive phenomenally well even compared to modern cars...so we go a head and replace/fix what's worn. Being an enthusiast isn't cheap...

'95s and '99s ask for the most money. While the last year of any M3 series is arguably the best, 95's are the only OBD1 M3 which is appealing to many for a few reasons; smog exemption, simpler electronics & HVAC, etc. It's also really hard to find a '95 that isn't a rat, over modified, or doesn't need paint. So, you have a bit of scarcity. The '99 M3 will probably be in the best shape & have the lowest miles b/c it's the newest. Much easier to find a 1-2 owner '99 than it is with a '95. Nothing wrong with the cars in between those years, they just cost a little less for various reasons.

[hide1]

There will always be the douchey white collar types who like the latest and the greatest over all else seeing a less expensive car as 'inferior' to them because they measure everything in $$$ signs yet don't know how to change their spark plugs. Then you have the hard working blue collar guys who can afford nice things yet prefer to see something older pull up at stop light/ into the parking lot, that is well built and well maintained and reflects the work ethic and know-how of the owner, that garners waving of peace signs & respect. An older well cared for bmw will always get love from the latter..

As long as youre not looking for anything rare I think you will be able to find clean low mile coupes (not so easy for sedans) for many years to come. So yes still worth it in the future. Bonus for me is interchangeable design between sedans and coupes =)

[dannyboy223]

Metal made fox, are you Phil's friend?

[RRSperry]

Ok, at this point, unless you have deep pockets, and some sound mechanical skills to do your own work for the vast majority of things; it probably isn't practical for an adult to daily drive an E36 M3.

That said, once you get them over 125K miles, why not drive the piss out of it..

[meatatarian]

Does it have bluetooth, a great stereo, 900-way power seats, parking sensors, etc? No. Nor does it have much power by modern standards. Or grip even.

But some things will never be obsolete; the heaviness of the cable throttle and resulting tenor of the I6, the sharp turn-in and great steering feedback, the bolt-action gearbox (with the right SSK). Despite the OBD2 and computer controls it still feels like an analog car in most regards. It's my only car, and I hate using it to run silly errands around town, or be stuck in traffic commuting. But when you get the right stretch of road, on the right day, it's fantastic. Highway bombing and backroads both are immensely pleasurable. Not sure I'd want anything else in the same price bracket.

[drivingmachine1]

You should go test drive an e36 M3. it is very analog. My sedan has no power seats, no heated seats, no bluetooth (I added with adding a stereo head unit), no blind spot indicator, no laser cruise control, no hill stop thingy for manual on a hill, no auto blip on down shift, no launch control, no paddle shifters, no heads up display, no electronic steering etc etc.

And that is why old is better. You can go 100mph in a newer car and 100 in an e36 m3, guess which is more fun? Find a well maintained one and either plan to do your own maint, or find a good bmw mechanic. the e36 engine if maintained can last you well over 200k miles from what i have seen and read.

There is nothing obsolete about a inline 6 with 5 speed manual. And when my Hellrot M3 Sedan pulls up to newer bmws/merc/audi's, i think the newer cars look more obsolete and look-a-likes to me.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=487561&d=1387826195

- - - Updated - - -

And does this look/sound obsolete :)

TrackRatM3 on youtube is one of my fav M3 pilots. He has 346 diff, headers, suspension, stop tech big brakes and gutted interior. He has quoted 290whp with mods. But he flies past GT3, Ferraris etc


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fz8Cnd9rmzc

[kovrol]

my M3 is now costed approx 40.000usd in the past 4 years, so I'm think I will hold it till my death :) I think too that it is the best looking M3 ever made and without any non usable electronics and high tech shits. This is just a beautiful car that needs a good driver :)

[technoMyviolet3]

That said, once you get them over 125K miles, why not drive the piss out of it..

Well put. And I Couldn't agree more.


I could have all the money in the world and i would still own AT LEAST 1 e36 m3. Thousands of better DD cars and thousands of better performing cars, but the E36 M3 will always have my heart. A great mix of possibility from comfortable DD to full fledged track car.

I hate 99% of new cars, no character anymore and such little individuality. They listen to what the people want too much and don't make cars with passion. Yeah they're comfortable and i wouldn't mind one to sit in traffic with and maybe road trips, but i would never connect with it the same way.

[ihsnshaik]

I would be with most people on here. Its one hell of a car but it isn't something rare. I mean certain vehicles maybe. I always get compliments on my e36 dakar and always have random people talk to me about it even if they arn't car people. Its made tough and the only thing I can bad mouth about it is the infamous cooling system! I always fear the worst because I have owned 6 or 7 of these cars and know they end up giving out sooner than later. Also seems like its uber rare to find a stock m3 with the damn underpanel on the car!!

[Relax]

OT: But imo, the next collectible m3 will be the e46 m3 hands down.

[KnudsonsM3]

OT: But imo, the next collectible m3 will be the e46 m3 hands down.

Not a chance. I think the e36 will be. Prices have already started to increase a ton.

E46's can be had for as much a nice e36 M.

[ninefiveone]

I love my E36 M3 and will probably never sell it, but there are issues going against the E36 being the next collectible M3 (if there ever is another collectible M3).

- US vs Euro engine
- Really large number manufactured and popular when new
- Too few differences from a regular E36
- The LTW's could be collectible (collectors love race-spec cars that are released to the public in just enough numbers to homologate) which ruins it for the rest of the line
- Too many other M3's that follow

This isn't to say that the prices for nice ones won't continue to go up slowly. That's just the nature of fewer survivors and being harder to find in good condition. But collectible is a whole other ball of wax. It takes a long time before a car reaches the point where you can clearly see a trajectory to collectibility. The E30 jumped the line on that one for good reasons: unloved when produced, made in smaller numbers, significantly different from a regular E30, part of a legendary time in german sedan racing, first of the M3's, and pinnacle of the legendary E30 chassis.

It's not a question of E30 M3's being old and just biding our time on E36's. Almost none of what makes an E30 collectible applies to an E36. Wait long enough and maybe a market will develop but less than 1% of people on this board will still have their M3 by that point.

If they every do become collectible you'll know because threads will be talking about restoration, not modification.

[RobertFontaine]

The 135 is a pretty compelling replacement for the e36 m3.

I'm fairly committed to my hunk of metal but there are now far better cars that can be purchased. If you throw 20k at an e36 M3 you can build a fairly nice car but you might be better off buying a new one. The advantage of the e36 m3 is a low entry price. The disadvantage is that fully restoring one is not cheap.

[ChrisV990]

I love my E36 M3 and will probably never sell it, but there are issues going against the E36 being the next collectible M3 (if there ever is another collectible M3).

- US vs Euro engine
- Really large number manufactured and popular when new
- Too few differences from a regular E36
- The LTW's could be collectible (collectors love race-spec cars that are released to the public in just enough numbers to homologate) which ruins it for the rest of the line
- Too many other M3's that follow

This isn't to say that the prices for nice ones won't continue to go up slowly. That's just the nature of fewer survivors and being harder to find in good condition. But collectible is a whole other ball of wax. It takes a long time before a car reaches the point where you can clearly see a trajectory to collectibility. The E30 jumped the line on that one for good reasons: unloved when produced, made in smaller numbers, significantly different from a regular E30, part of a legendary time in german sedan racing, first of the M3's, and pinnacle of the legendary E30 chassis.

It's not a question of E30 M3's being old and just biding our time on E36's. Almost none of what makes an E30 collectible applies to an E36. Wait long enough and maybe a market will develop but less than 1% of people on this board will still have their M3 by that point.

If they every do become collectible you'll know because threads will be talking about restoration, not modification.

Completely agree with everything you said.

The E36 M3 may be collectible one day but not anytime soon. The E30 M3 is drastically different from the standard E30 chassis which in my opinion is one of the reasons the E36 M3 falls short. Not that I don't love the car but it's pretty damn easy to turn a 328 into an M3. Try turning an E30 325 into an E30 M3, now that's not an easy job by any means!

[Relax]

Not a chance. I think the e36 will be. Prices have already started to increase a ton.

E46's can be had for as much a nice e36 M.

I mainly see SMG e46's for e36 money. I guess it took people that long to figure out that SMG is worthless.

[GG Allin]

Low mileage, original condition E36 M3's might fetch a few bucks in the future. All the others, don't hold your breath. There is just too damn many of them. I'd be long on the hand built M cars before the E36's. Many of those are still a bargain. Personally I like the Euro spec E24 M6.

[crqflier]

I wouldn't close the book on the e36m not being a collector car just yet. The clapped out ones, forget it. But well kept I think have a decent shot. This whole argument about "too many made" - makes no sense. Look at any American performance variant from the late '60's or early '70's. Like Olds 442 vs regular Cutlass. 20-30k 442s were made every year - about 1/10 of cutlass production. Über clean examples go for 15x original sticker. How much did an average DD 442 go for in the early '80's? A couple or few grand, or about half sticker.

Now take the e30m that folks hold out as "never like that" for the e36m. Über clean examples go for 1-2x original sticker. That's hardcore enthusiast territory, but not yet "collector". How much were clean examples going for in the late '90s early '00 after the e36m came out? Mid-upper teens, About half sticker.

Now take the e36m. A low miles (under 50k) well kept example will go for what, 18-20k? So about half sticker. Hmmm... Do you think that same rig will go for mid-30s or more ten years from now (1-2x sticker)? With that said, by no means am I holding my rig as an "investment" or "collector". Nope. I'm driving it because I enjoy it. The point is, it's way too early to close the book on the e36m. We got about another 20+ years to see what happens.

[GG Allin]

I wouldn't close the book on the e36m not being a collector car just yet. The clapped out ones, forget it. But well kept I think have a decent shot. This whole argument about "too many made" - makes no sense. Look at any American performance variant from the late '60's or early '70's. Like Olds 442 vs regular Cutlass. 20-30k 442s were made every year - about 1/10 of cutlass production. Über clean examples go for 15x original sticker. How much did an average DD 442 go for in the early '80's? A couple or few grand, or about half sticker.

Using old muscle cars from that era doesn't really apply to these cars. The idea that they "might be worth something some day" never crossed anyone's mind. So a shit ton of the rare ones were scrapped. Kind of like beating on then scrapping half of the 1995 M3 Lightweights. Instead a lot of them are never driven. A run of the mill 442 really isn't worth much more than they were new if you take inflation in to consideration. You can hardly buy a new Hyundai for what you can fetch a nice mass produced 442 for. Now a W-30, those are worth some money, much more rare too.

[ninefiveone]

I wouldn't close the book on the e36m not being a collector car just yet. The clapped out ones, forget it. But well kept I think have a decent shot. This whole argument about "too many made" - makes no sense. Look at any American performance variant from the late '60's or early '70's. Like Olds 442 vs regular Cutlass. 20-30k 442s were made every year - about 1/10 of cutlass production. Über clean examples go for 15x original sticker. How much did an average DD 442 go for in the early '80's? A couple or few grand, or about half sticker. ...

Something to consider is the definition of "collectible." People will collect anything, which doesn't mean that the items being collected are truly collectible in the sense that people ascribe an outsize value to them.

Values of collector cars are not predicated on multiples of sticker price. That approach ignores inflation and relative value of other options (i.e. other vehicles) at the current time. Everything you're talking about is simply the impact of inflation and decreasing numbers of good condition cars. The market for muscle cars is actually a great example of this. There are a few truly collectible muscle cars (COPO camaros, etc), with the rest being fun enthusiast models (most 60's camaros) with prices that track with inflation and availability. It will be the same for M3's. E30 = collectible. E36 fun enthusiast model whose value will track with inflation and availability. Half of the increase in value of a 1964 Olds 442 is pure inflation, btw. $3000 in 1964 = $21K in 2013.

Survivorship only does so much for the value of a car, by the way. If survivorship were a significant contributor to value, the one perfect condition Yugo out there would be worth a lot of money. Survivorship of a collectible car does add to value but again, the car needs to be collectible to begin with.

In the end, the car has to have characteristics that make it collectible. Historical significance, provenance, etc.

[crqflier]

I agree with your comments about adjusting for inflation. No doubt. However, no one is adjusting for inflation with, say, the e30m example.

The muscle car example, I think, is directly analogous to the e36m. I used the 442 as an example. It was an option package on a cutlass (like some are arguing that's essentially an e36m - ie not hugely different from a regular e36). The build qty are the same. And the existence of a special sauce (ltw) version. I guarantee that when I was in high school, none of us were thinking that buying a 442 would somehow "pay off" in 30 years. But there were obviously some old dudes preserving them - probably paying double what the high school crowd was paying.

Now take a look at who buys the e36m today. Lots of high school and early 20's, plus some old dudes picking up the low mile rigs for 2-10x the price of the thrasher.

Ultimately, supply/demand dictates price. I'm simply saying that the curve the e36m is on isn't all that much different than other cars being held out as collectible.

[hookah]

I personally foresee well cared for example's going up, and I think they will become high in demand...Simply because so many have become dedicated track cars, and many others have been neglected. They may not reach E30 levels simply due to being more prevelant in production numbers...But Considereing the E36 is the last very basic M3, and that they are steadily becoming harder to find, I don't see why prices won't continue to rise. Lets not forget, these cars are not exactly cheap to maintain..And people that have maintained them are wising up and asking more for them.

[GG Allin]

I bet an all original low mileage '72 Pinto is worth more now than it was new.

http://www.bob2000.com/jnp1.jpg

[hide1]

I love my E36 M3 and will probably never sell it, but there are issues going against the E36 being the next collectible M3 (if there ever is another collectible M3).

- US vs Euro engine
- Really large number manufactured and popular when new
- Too few differences from a regular E36
- The LTW's could be collectible (collectors love race-spec cars that are released to the public in just enough numbers to homologate) which ruins it for the rest of the line
- Too many other M3's that follow

This isn't to say that the prices for nice ones won't continue to go up slowly. That's just the nature of fewer survivors and being harder to find in good condition. But collectible is a whole other ball of wax. It takes a long time before a car reaches the point where you can clearly see a trajectory to collectibility. The E30 jumped the line on that one for good reasons: unloved when produced, made in smaller numbers, significantly different from a regular E30, part of a legendary time in german sedan racing, first of the M3's, and pinnacle of the legendary E30 chassis.

It's not a question of E30 M3's being old and just biding our time on E36's. Almost none of what makes an E30 collectible applies to an E36. Wait long enough and maybe a market will develop but less than 1% of people on this board will still have their M3 by that point.

If they every do become collectible you'll know because threads will be talking about restoration, not modification.

The interesting thing is how the low price point of the e36 M3 has made it more affordable to the masses for ricing out, which has markedly reduced the amount of clean ones available. I'm not sure the other m3's had the large production numbers or suffered the 'less special' factory upgrades causing the value to plummet as drastically/ rapidly. It will be interesting to see how the market plays out.

[M3only]

The E36 M3 will become a collectible car in the future. It's still an M3 and being part of the early BMW M3 lineage counts for something. In time, demand will outweigh supply for clean, low mileage, OEM examples.

With that said, ninefiveone summed it up perfectly: "If they every do become collectible you'll know because threads will be talking about restoration, not modification." Clearly, we are not there yet.

[Steve Pratel]

I've never bought a car because I thought it was or would be collectable, its always been because it was desireable to me. Who cares what others think, or what the market says. If you can afford to own and operate it and you like it, go for it.

I've owned a C-900 Saab of some type over the last 25 years. My first was an 82 Turbo that started as a DD, then autocrossed for 2-3 years and back to a DD untill I replaced it with a 2000 9-3 Viggin (which I hated what a POS......). The 82 C-900 had 523K miles on it when I sold it thining the Viggin would replace it in my heart... man was I wrong.

In the late 90's-2005 C-900's were worth next to nothing. In 2004 I picked up a beautiful example of a C-900 a 1986 SPG for $500 for a first car for my son. Try finding a clean C-900 today on E-bay, or Saabnet...... Your looking at 5-6K, and I imagine as clean examples survive, so will their values increase. I have a 93 C-900 Vert, a non turbo slushbox, but a nice car. Who cares that it is the "Seinfeld car" I like it. It was worth $2000 2 years ago, and will now bring an easy $5000. And there is NOTHING special about the car, what is a factor is a limited quantity of a car that had character and was distinct. The 912E were sneered at by the Porsche and euro snob autocrowd due to its 914 derived motor, but now they are appreciating at double the rate of their 6cyl sisters.... 5 Years ago you couldnt sell one if you tried and they were going for 1/2 the price of the 911's. Now with the exception of the very limited production 911's, they are about equal.

The E36 M3 will appreciate over time, especially those cars that have been well maintained, upgraded and not drastically modified. I imagine the prices will continue to drop the next 2-3 years and then when it hits the 20-25 year mark the clean cars will increase in value. 10 years from now I think those with clean M-3's will be happy with what they are worth. But who cares..... I've always wanted an E36/E46 M3, now I have one, will likely keep it till I die. If it appreciates fine, if not, oh well, I will love driving it, wrenching on it, improving and tuning it. One day, my son or grandson may take it to the next level, do a full restore and sell it at auction for $50K, or they may just enjoy it.... THAT IS WHAT THIS IS ABOUT.

[Andy]

I guess I am one of the ones who thinks the price of these cars will go up. I recently tried to sell my '97 M3. The offers I was getting were pretty low. It is a high-mileage car though. I understand that. Since I can't get what I want for it, I decided to part it out. I am parting out most of the major components. Once I do that, I will get more than what most people were offering me for my car. I'll hold on to the chassis with the plan on rebuilding it. If the prices start to rise, I'll start to put it back together.

I think the prices will eventually go up, mainly for clean, well-documented cars. The trend over the past decade has shown that most people would rather modify them than maintain them. That trend is still going on. That is leading to fewer and fewer cars older enthusiasts can buy and have a turn-key car. This group will want an original M3, not a clone. I don't think the fact that the E36 is near-identical in all forms will prevent the M3 from being worth more. If anything, I think the price difference between the M3 and the others will increase.

As someone mentioned earlier, these are the last of the basic M3's. I think there's a growing demand for basic cars again, especially weekend cars. The FR-S/BRZ started filling that void. I feel if you give an enthusiast the option of a well-maintained, issue-free M3 vs a BRZ/FR-S, they will choose the M3.

The next 10 years should be interesting. I hope to see more "restoration" threads soon.

[Eric98Sedan]

If they every do become collectible you'll know because threads will be talking about restoration, not modification.

That's already happening, we just don't talk about it as much.

[berny2435]

As more people trash them and they become more rare "by the numbers", they will start to gain some value back. As more Daily driver type E36s go to the junk yards, the M3's will seem like they show up more often. It will take sellers and dealers to post higher prices for not only the E36, but also the E30 and E46. The E30 is already doing very well which I think will mean good things for the E36 and E46. It's up to the community and the buyers at this point. This has already started for the E36 M3s I think as well as with Honda S2000s. If you every wanted a S2000 CR or one without traction control and DBW, you better get one now before they're either trashed or cost too much to stomach. I sold my 2006 S2000 off this year thinking it was time to step into a E36M3 while I have the cash to still by a nice one with a good history.

[ninefiveone]

A lot of people equating "car becoming harder to find in good condition so price goes up" with "collectible." From there they say that because E30M3's have gone up in price, and people say those are collectible, that an E36M3 will experience the same. That's only true to a point.

E36M3's in excellent condition will definitely go up in price over time. E30M3's will always be an order of magnitude higher. Not because they're older. Because they're more collectible.

Think of the scale they use on "What's My Car Worth?" A-F like school grades. The 1967 Ferrari 275 GTB/4 NART Spider that just sold for $27.5 million USD... That's an A+ collectible. A Porsche 356 twin cam is an A collectible. A porsche 356C with a motor swap is a B+ collectible. You get the idea.

Right now an E30 M3 is about a B- collectible. It will likely top out around an B+/A-.

An E36M3 is about a D collectible now and will likely top out at a C+/B-. There will always be about full letter grade between an E30M3 and an E36M3 for reason that have little to do with age and availability. I can see special versions of the E36 getting up into the B+/A- range. LTW, GT, GTR, etc.

It's not that an E36M3 isn't a great car. It's just not special in the ways an E30 is, and there are way too many equivalent or better cars from the same era and even the same line.

It's fair to say that an E36M3 will always be a popular enthusiast car. That will comfortably take the car into the $50K range over time (in 2013 dollars). That's a pretty poor performing investment. I struggle to see the prices for a non-LTW, non-euro E36M3 exceeding that range (adjusted for inflation). I do think E36M3 sedans will continue to price at a premium to coupes and that gap may expand a bit.

E30M3's will easily go into the 6 figure range over time (2013 dollars).

The higher a car climbs the collectibilty scale, the more originality counts as well. Collectors wants cars exactly as they left the factory, right down to the stickers and paint markings on the underbody. That's where you see the big difference with enthusiasts and ultimately what will become the ceiling for a car's value.

Anyone looking to the E30M3 as a benchmark for E36M3 values will be sorely disappointed. Better to look at the difference between E28M5's and E34M5's to get a sense for how they will differ over time. That's being generous for the E36M3, however, since the E34M5 still had a motor directly descended from the M1, was handbuilt, and built in far less numbers than an E36M3.

I take no joy in saying this, by the way. I've got a 41K mile 1995 E36M3 in perfect original condition. If anyone stands to benefit from E36M3's becoming collectible, I would be in the mix. The good news is that since it'll never be all that collectible, I can feel comfortable enjoying it on road and track.

[berny2435]

Good post. Its one of those, time will tell things but what you have posted seems pretty legit to me. I really like my m/3/4/5 and plan on keeping it clean. I need to get a daily next year to make that a full reality though.

[vmbray]

"That said, once you can fix or replace anything on the car, why not drive the piss out of it.."

Agree