Best inexpensive S52 bolt on headers?

[EE05063]

So my factory exhaust manifold flange was leaking, sealed it temporarily with high temp metal epoxy. Instead of spending $100 on a pair of used rusty OE logs, I would prefer to go ahead and install some nice looking aftermarket headers. But not if it's gonna cost several hundred bucks.

I know there's been a lot of discussion about the headers found on eBay. Some good, some not, anyone have recent positive experience with fitment on inexpensive headers that are truly bolt on?

Thanks

[Bimjam96]

I think raceland still makes a good set for around 200

[EE05063]

Yeah, which ones bolt on though, neither one of theirs looks like it's a direct fit.

[Bimjam96]

Oh shoot you're right..sorry wasn't thinking, those are long tubes and you would want shorties

[hide1]

bmp makes a pretty inexpensive shorty header but don't think its been dyno proven. don't think it even retains air pump and def not carb exempt if you're in ca. you could flip the welds on the oe manifold and do a slight port. sadly theres only one piece that is 'true' bolt-on for e36 and its not cheap nor the most powerful..

[EE05063]

Yeah air pump can go away, no emissions here.

[pbonsalb]

I would skip the BMP. I had a set and removed them. They have a very restrictive bend on one runner. If you can find replicas of the TMS equal length shorty headers, try them. Otherwise, run another set of stock. On 96-99 cars, they are not cast log headers, but rather unequal lengths stainless shorties. People rarely have any trouble with them. If warped, you may be able to plane them. If not, another set is about $75 used.

[1000hp]

I would skip the BMP. I had a set and removed them. They have a very restrictive bend on one runner. If you can find replicas of the TMS equal length shorty headers, try them. Otherwise, run another set of stock. On 96-99 cars, they are not cast log headers, but rather unequal lengths stainless shorties. People rarely have any trouble with them. If warped, you may be able to plane them. If not, another set is about $75 used.
Why did you remove your BMPs? I've heard they're a bitch to install due to the one sharp bend, but how do they perform?

[pbonsalb]

I had replica USA Supersprint headers. I removed them, installed the BMPs, ran them for 2 weeks and removed them. With the replica SS, I could get rubber at the top of 2nd gear from a roll. With the BMPs, I could not. After I put the replica SS back on, I could again. Supercharged, about 400 rwhp. Not a very formal test, but it was enough for me.

Installation is a pain, but doable in a few hours with the right tools, like a 1/4 drive ratchet, shallow and deep 11 mm sockets, wobble and regular short extensions, u-joint, short 11 mm wrench, long 11 mm wrench, and flex head ratcheting 11 mm wrench. Do some from under and some from above.

[Randy Forbes]

I had replica USA Supersprint headers. I removed them, installed the BMPs, ran them for 2 weeks and removed them. With the replica SS, I could get rubber at the top of 2nd gear from a roll. With the BMPs, I could not. After I put the replica SS back on, I could again. Supercharged, about 400 rwhp. Not a very formal test, but it was enough for me.

Installation is a pain, but doable in a few hours with the right tools, like a 1/4 drive ratchet, shallow and deep 11 mm sockets, wobble and regular short extensions, u-joint, short 11 mm wrench, long 11 mm wrench, and flex head ratcheting 11 mm wrench. Do some from under and some from above. To elaborate, here's a collection of 11 mm tools I recently used to put a set of the TMS shorties back on an ///M Coupe. I did the original installation on this car several years ago, and I've put them on a couple of other cars (both ///M Rdstrs) too. I don't know how the engine compartment compares to the full-fledge E-36 version, but it's a pita, for sure!

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8636.jpg?m=1382494687

The "T" handle wrench was still in position on the headers when the first picture was taken; take note of the universal socket, 3" extension and fixed universal on the end of the T-handle. Yep, that's the way it was used to access one of the nuts!

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8648.jpg?m=1382494687

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8641.jpg?m=1382494687

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8642.jpg?m=1382494687

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8643.jpg?m=1382494687

[mugrin]

Just a few days ago my eBay headers arrived for my '95 M3, $99 shipped.

They were also made to fit '96-'99 so they had bungs for the sensors.

They were a serious pita to install as others said, a good assortment of 1/4 drive sockets and u-joints, and many hours of sweating are needed to install them, but it's doable.

The quality of the headers is great, I love them.

I used M7x1.0 30mm chromoly bolts, and none of the bends were too severe to be able to torque every bolt down (studs came out when I removed original manifolds, as they always do.)

Just a couple cuts to the mid pipe and paying an exhaust shop $40 to weld flanges on and done!

[dcrothers]

Jeeze man!!!
Is it worth it?

[Redfogo]

Is there any real gains worth it from all this? I know ODBII isn't as restrictive so is there any real power to be made from the upgrade?

[VaTechE36]

There is probably some power to be had when installing the various sorts of headers, but also at a cost of low end HP/TQ depending on the configuration used. In the situation the OP is describing, which I'm also in the same boat, the stock header is cracked.

I had no intention of putting headers on this car, but was more or less pushed into that direction due to the failure in the header, so I figured, if I'm going to have to pull the headers, I might as well replace them with some sort of modification.

I have a set of shorties sitting in a box that are prepped with bungs and SAP sensors, but haven't had the desire to pull them apart at this point given some other projects I'd rather work on.

[pbonsalb]

Worth it depends on how much time you have, your skill set, your frustratability, the gains you require in return for your effort, and so forth. I have installed stock headers, replica Supersprints, BMP equal length shorties, RMS long tubes, and a turbo header on my car, as well as five different mid pipes and rear exhausts.

[hide1]

To elaborate, here's a collection of 11 mm tools I recently used to put a set of the TMS shorties back on an ///M Coupe. I did the original installation on this car several years ago, and I've put them on a couple of other cars (both ///M Rdstrs) too. I don't know how the engine compartment compares to the full-fledge E-36 version, but it's a pita, for sure!

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/AMcD-Coupe-III/IMG_8636.jpg?m=1382494687

The "T" handle wrench was still in position on the headers when the first picture was taken; take note of the universal socket, 3" extension and fixed universal on the end of the T-handle. Yep, that's the way it was used to access one of the nuts!

Hey Randy - did you considering loosening motor mounts and jacking the engine up to increase accessibility? I have to do motor mounts at the same time I will be doing this and thought it might help.


Just a few days ago my eBay headers arrived for my '95 M3, $99 shipped.

They were also made to fit '96-'99 so they had bungs for the sensors.

That's only partly true. OBDII cars need more than o2 bungs. Air pump ports are also required to retain stock emissions equipment and avoid CEL. What vendor did you buy through and did you need to drill out the mounting holes to fit up properly?


There is probably some power to be had when installing the various sorts of headers, but also at a cost of low end HP/TQ depending on the configuration used. In the situation the OP is describing, which I'm also in the same boat, the stock header is cracked.

I had no intention of putting headers on this car, but was more or less pushed into that direction due to the failure in the header, so I figured, if I'm going to have to pull the headers, I might as well replace them with some sort of modification.

I have a set of shorties sitting in a box that are prepped with bungs and SAP sensors, but haven't had the desire to pull them apart at this point given some other projects I'd rather work on.

I'm in the same boat and I know of several others as well. Mine cracked cleanly right at the flange. While I could go through the hassle to take them to be welded, as a family man my times valuable and would not want to have them crack again so it makes perfect sense to use the opportunity and improve upon the existing setup. Honestly, these cars have so much torque that it doesnt hurt to trade some for more top end. Your not going to lose as much torque as some would have you think. People used to say the same thing about the M50 swap but I have yet to see a single person go back to stock despite the small trade off in torque. Besides, we lose more backpressure driving around with exhaust leaks than with a replica header.

I liked the bolt on design of the Turner/ JP Performance headers with SAP ports and CARB E.O. # BUT they were too much $$ for the minimal gains they advertised. I would've jumped on them at half the price, but now Im looking at fabbing SAP ports into some Racelands and calling it a day. Still on the fence.

A word of caution. Watch those exhaust leaks! You can unknowingly be huffing carbon monoxide since its not getting converted to Co2 at the catalytics..

[Redfogo]

So what the best header out there then for the S52?

[Randy Forbes]

Lifting the engine in the Coupe/Rdstr chassis wouldn't have made any difference; you could get the tools to the headers, just not through them :devillook

[EE05063]

I would skip the BMP. I had a set and removed them. They have a very restrictive bend on one runner. If you can find replicas of the TMS equal length shorty headers, try them. Otherwise, run another set of stock. On 96-99 cars, they are not cast log headers, but rather unequal lengths stainless shorties. People rarely have any trouble with them. If warped, you may be able to plane them. If not, another set is about $75 used.

What? Are we talking S52 still? Every one I have seen are cast logs. Including my 97 Sedan and both 98 verts a buddy has, all stock M3's.

[EE05063]

That's only partly true. OBDII cars need more than o2 bungs. Air pump ports are also required to retain stock emissions equipment and avoid CEL. What vendor did you buy through and did you need to drill out the mounting holes to fit up properly?


A 15 dollar simulator allows you to eliminate that entire SAP assembly and ports on the exhaust headers. Screw that stuff unless you are in Commiefornia.

[pbonsalb]

What? Are we talking S52 still? Every one I have seen are cast logs. Including my 97 Sedan and both 98 verts a buddy has, all stock M3's.

Yes, all 96-99 M3 and 328i have the same stainless steel unequal length shorty headers. Only 95 and earlier M3 and 325i had cast iron unequal length shorties. No E36 325/328/M3 had log manifolds.

[weedshoes]

Yes, all 96-99 M3 and 328i have the same stainless steel unequal length shorty headers. Only 95 and earlier M3 and 325i had cast iron unequal length shorties. No E36 325/328/M3 had log manifolds.

S50b32

[EE05063]

Yes, all 96-99 M3 and 328i have the same stainless steel unequal length shorty headers. Only 95 and earlier M3 and 325i had cast iron unequal length shorties. No E36 325/328/M3 had log manifolds.

but all of the motors i mentioned have rusty cast logs......and i know all three are stock S52s

[reno5658]

So my factory exhaust manifold flange was leaking, sealed it temporarily with high temp metal epoxy. Instead of spending $100 on a pair of used rusty OE logs, I would prefer to go ahead and install some nice looking aftermarket headers. But not if it's gonna cost several hundred bucks.

I know there's been a lot of discussion about the headers found on eBay. Some good, some not, anyone have recent positive experience with fitment on inexpensive headers that are truly bolt on?

Thanks


http://www.ebay.com/itm/OBX-Exhaust-Header-Manifold-Catback-Kit-Combo-BMW-M3-E36-325-328-/170935011408?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item27cc854850&vxp=mtr

not sure if you have an exhaust system but you could give this a try.

[EE05063]

Yeah thanks but I am looking for a $100 alternative to stock rusty logs.

[Randy Forbes]

but all of the motors i mentioned have rusty cast logs......and i know all three are stock S52sAll the S-52s I've seen (a lot, seriously, has to be well over 50__around 100 if we count S54s too) have been the stainless steel shorties; they're what you'd find on all the '98 through '00 ///M Rdstrs & Coupes (2-seaters).

Fresh from Jett Hot:

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/blk_car_headwork/IMG_6410.jpg?m=1303972438

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/blk_car_headwork/IMG_6415.jpg?m=1303972438

Speaking of Turner Motor Sport, I think this is the picture they're using on their website (with permission) for the shorties:

http://www.spcarsplus.com/gallery3/var/resizes/Tweety_Two/IMG_1399.jpg?m=1304144078

[Redfogo]

I have the top OEM one installed omn my 98 m3 they come stock. Of course not as shinny. How do they compair to the turners?

[hide1]

A 15 dollar simulator allows you to eliminate that entire SAP assembly and ports on the exhaust headers. Screw that stuff unless you are in Commiefornia.

Yes, Im in the land of smog inspection hell. A sim might fly for normal smog inspection but we get Test Only shops every two years and they do look for this stuff. He almost didn't let me pass because the 'ASC' light was on. So yeah I was speaking for the CA e36 crowd who may/ may not want to hack their expensive emissions equipment. I rather have the whole picture before spending $$$ on new manifolds.

[MauiM3Mania]

but all of the motors i mentioned have rusty cast logs......and i know all three are stock S52s

This is the factory header from a North America 1999 M3 (S52).


481886

[EE05063]

This is the factory header from a North America 1999 M3 (S52).


481886


That picture does look more like what I have after looking at it again.

They aren't stainless steel though I don't think unless they are 400 series stainless.

So knowing they aren't cast, can I weld the tiny gap between the flange and the pipe at the end?

[pbonsalb]

They are stainless, but as you note, there are various grades of stainless and some discolor or surface rust more than others.

Maybe technically you could call them logs or modified logs because there is one main runner that the other runners feed into, rather than a merge.

Weld if you can do it right -- I would want to do better than flux core.

[EE05063]

Well thanks for the info guys, maybe I can weld it up without taking it off now that I know it's not cast.

[Randy Forbes]

They are stainless, but as you note, there are various grades of stainless and some discolor or surface rust more than others.

Maybe technically you could call them logs or modified logs because there is one main runner that the other runners feed into, rather than a merge.

Weld if you can do it right -- I would want to do better than flux core. I'd want to do better than a MIG altogether, even one running s/s wire. TIG if you want a professional repair.

The stock headers are a lot easier to remove/replace than any of the aftermarket ones; the rear one comes off first/goes on last, so if that's the one needing repair, I sure wouldn't try fighting to weld it in situ; too easy to remove and do on the bench.

[breakfast]

lol how is mig not professional? sure tig looks better but mig is just as functional especially for an exhaust. any welding done on the car from the factory and almost any car is mig. lol not professional. gimme a break

[Randy Forbes]

lol how is mig not professional? sure tig looks better but mig is just as functional especially for an exhaust. any welding done on the car from the factory and almost any car is mig. lol not professional. gimme a break The previous post (before mine) referenced flux-core wire__I guess it just scared me. But if you think you can control penetration and heat as well with a MIG as you can with a TIG, well, it's not worth arguing with you about it.

I had been warned about the reputation of 3_series forums, but did I listen? Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers... :rolleyes

[hide1]

Don't sweat it too much. i knew a guy who was obsessive about TIG v MIG welds and it was the first thing he pointed to when acknowledging quality construction.

[99MPower]

I had been warned about the reputation of 3_series forums, but did I listen? Didn't mean to ruffle your feathers... :rolleyes

he's one of the select "few".. Dont worry, its not bad over here, just have to have a thick skin :)

[Da Infammus 1]

Id say it would be worth it to install some aftermarket headers instead of welding the old ones. I installed some ceramic coated Racing Dynamics longtubes I stumbled on and the gains were quite noticeable.