Is my starter bad or something else

[kenrick118]

For the past few months starting my car in the morning takes between 20 to 25 attempt before the engine turnover and start . After startup drive for 1/2 n hour switch off engine will startup instantly. After 4hrs cool down another 20 to 25 attempt before starting. What do I check?
And how do I check to know if starter is bad? ?Thanks for your assistance

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Mayorchuck]

So it does nothing when you turn the key all those times? No crank, no clicking?

[kenrick118]

So it does nothing when you turn the key all those times? No crank, no clicking?

I hear the pump. Everything works but no crank. I did the position 2 open passenger vanity mirror, nothing strange happen, so I don't think I have a bad switch

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

So it does nothing when you turn the key all those times? No crank, no clicking?

There was a click whenever I turn the key, sound as if from under the car. Not sure

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[psjr]

If you hear a click from the engine bay, sounds like a bad starter motor.
BTW the pump does not run until the engine is cranking.

[Mayorchuck]

How old is your battery? I would start there. Could be the starter/solenoid but have your battery tested first. Probably your starter clicking.

[kenrick118]

If you hear a click from the engine bay, sounds like a bad starter motor.
BTW the pump does not run until the engine is cranking.

Thought the groan i heard below the seat when I turn the key was the pump. How do I test the starter?

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

How old is your battery? I would start there. Could be the starter/solenoid but have your battery tested first. Probably your starter clicking.

Had the battery tested@ auto zone, said it was good

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Sobek]

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter may be sticking. Eventually after enough tries it frees up and engages... Just one possibility. If you're able, you could remove the starter, get a good look at the pinion gear and perhaps give it a good clean up.

[kenrick118]

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter may be sticking. Eventually after enough tries it frees up and engages... Just one possibility. If you're able, you could remove the starter, get a good look at the pinion gear and perhaps give it a good clean up.

Hope the weather is good for the weekend. Will remove it and see. Will keep you all posted. Thanks for the response

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Sobek]

If you've ever bench tested a starter motor, that would be the ideal thing to do. At least then you can see exactly what it does once power is applied to it. Also, Autozone may well have said the battery was 'good', but that's not exactly a conclusive test. Have you unlocked your cluster and checked what the voltage is before and during trying to start it? Because if it's too low, then it simply won't engage... It may eventually catch on for various reasons, but that could just as easily be the culprit. A battery can test good but not provide enough amps to get the starter going right away.

Just another idea, and it only takes a minute to bring up the voltage display on the cluster and check what it does while trying to start.

[kenrick118]

Sounds like the solenoid on the starter may be sticking. Eventually after enough tries it frees up and engages... Just one possibility. If you're able, you could remove the starter, get a good look at the pinion gear and perhaps give it a good clean up.

Why is it when the engine is hot it starts easily?

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

If you've ever bench tested a starter motor, that would be the ideal thing to do. At least then you can see exactly what it does once power is applied to it. Also, Autozone may well have said the battery was 'good', but that's not exactly a conclusive test. Have you unlocked your cluster and checked what the voltage is before and during trying to start it? Because if it's too low, then it simply won't engage... It may eventually catch on for various reasons, but that could just as easily be the culprit. A battery can test good but not provide enough amps to get the starter going right away.

Just another idea, and it only takes a minute to bring up the voltage display on the cluster and check what it does while trying to start.

Will do so tomorrow

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[psjr]

Why is it when the engine is hot it starts easily?

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

Could be that it's because the battery was more recently charged.
I don't trust parts store battery/alternator tests.

However, I didn't initially think it's the battery (and still don't) because usually attempting to start multiple times would drain the battery further and prevent starting at all.
That and dead batteries usually cause multiple repeated clicks as the starter solenoid engages then loses enough current to stay engaged as the motor tries to turn.

[kenrick118]

Could be that it's because the battery was more recently charged.
I don't trust parts store battery/alternator tests.

However, I didn't initially think it's the battery (and still don't) because usually attempting to start multiple times would drain the battery further and prevent starting at all.
That and dead batteries usually cause multiple repeated clicks as the starter solenoid engages then loses enough current to stay engaged as the motor tries to turn.

I don't think its the battery either, as you said, multiple attempt and drl engaged

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Podmore]

Why is it when the engine is hot it starts easily?

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

+1 on the starter solenoid - the solenoid has to kick the bendix gear into the flywheel ring gear, as well as close the main contacts that allow full battery current to turn the starter motor. The two actions are supposed to occur simultaneously so that the starter motor only starts to spin just as it is engaged in the ring gear. When the bendix gear gets gunked up with dirt, old oil etc, and gets stuck on the shaft, or the solenoid gets too weak to kick it along the starter shaft, you may hear the click of the solenoid, but no whirr from the starter.

The reason it starts OK when warm is that the goop on the starter shaft has softened up and the bendix can slide along OK, this also would indicate to me that the solenoid is probably OK.

Removal of the starter is an easy enough DIY, as is removing the solenoid from the starter assembly and cleaning up and re-lubricating the starter shaft and bendix gear.

[kenrick118]

+1 on the starter solenoid - the solenoid has to kick the bendix gear into the flywheel ring gear, as well as close the main contacts that allow full battery current to turn the starter motor. The two actions are supposed to occur simultaneously so that the starter motor only starts to spin just as it is engaged in the ring gear. When the bendix gear gets gunked up with dirt, old oil etc, and gets stuck on the shaft, or the solenoid gets too weak to kick it along the starter shaft, you may hear the click of the solenoid, but no whirr from the starter.

The reason it starts OK when warm is that the goop on the starter shaft has softened up and the bendix can slide along OK, this also would indicate to me that the solenoid is probably OK.

Removal of the starter is an easy enough DIY, as is removing the solenoid from the starter assembly and cleaning up and re-lubricating the starter shaft and bendix gear.


Thanks, guess this will be my weekend project

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

If you've ever bench tested a starter motor, that would be the ideal thing to do. At least then you can see exactly what it does once power is applied to it. Also, Autozone may well have said the battery was 'good', but that's not exactly a conclusive test. Have you unlocked your cluster and checked what the voltage is before and during trying to start it? Because if it's too low, then it simply won't engage... It may eventually catch on for various reasons, but that could just as easily be the culprit. A battery can test good but not provide enough amps to get the starter going right away.

Just another idea, and it only takes a minute to bring up the voltage display on the cluster and check what it does while trying to start.

11.4 v before starting. Steady 13.8 v after starting, engine at a throttle

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Sobek]

11.4v would be considered far too low. For example, here's the state of charge information for our cars;

http://www.bimmerboard.com/members/q/original/BMW%20Battery%20State%20of%20Charge.jpg

13.8v while idling isn't too bad, but from my research previously if the battery is being charged it should read around 14.2v. I'm not 100% certain that even these voltages will stop your starter from engaging, but if you could get your hands on another battery to test that would be good. There are better experts than I on battery voltages and what will or will not stop your car from starting up...

[kenrick118]

11.4v would be considered far too low. For example, here's the state of charge information for our cars;

13.8v while idling isn't too bad, but from my research previously if the battery is being charged it should read around 14.2v. I'm not 100% certain that even these voltages will stop your starter from engaging, but if you could get your hands on another battery to test that would be good. There are better experts than I on battery voltages and what will or will not stop your car from starting up...

Will try another battery n report on the result

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

11.4v would be considered far too low. For example, here's the state of charge information for our cars;

13.8v while idling isn't too bad, but from my research previously if the battery is being charged it should read around 14.2v. I'm not 100% certain that even these voltages will stop your starter from engaging, but if you could get your hands on another battery to test that would be good. There are better experts than I on battery voltages and what will or will not stop your car from starting up...

New battery same result . Guess I will be removing and testing the starter

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

How old is your battery? I would start there. Could be the starter/solenoid but have your battery tested first. Probably your starter clicking.

Bench test,Bad solenoid, need new starter

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Mayorchuck]

New battery and starter. You will be in good shape for the winter. Let us know when you have it going again.

[Sobek]

Bench test,Bad solenoid, need new starter

Good to know we've found the culprit. Is it visibly damaged in some way? You could always look at cleaning it up real good and seeing if that takes care of it - there's an end cap you can remove and I believe grease is added there, and the pinion gears are obviously quite easy to clean up...

[kenrick118]

Good to know we've found the culprit. Is it visibly damaged in some way? You could always look at cleaning it up real good and seeing if that takes care of it - there's an end cap you can remove and I believe grease is added there, and the pinion gears are obviously quite easy to clean up...

Autozone tested it, starter gear that engage flywheel failed to activate while motor was spinning.

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[kenrick118]

Autozone tested it, starter gear that engage flywheel failed to activate while motor was spinning . will be ordering a new one from Oembimmerparts as soon as I get home

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)

[Sobek]

Yep, that's the pinion gear. Thing is, it could be something as simple as a lack of lubrication that's causing it to fail to engage... Eventually with enough tries it gets free, and due to the heat from operating the engine it stays capable of moving until it cools off again (and essentially gums up). The less likely alternative is either a bad wire (on the back of the starter) running from the solenoid body to the pinion gear, but that would be very obvious, either burnt or brittle. Any internal damage would likely make it fail completely so I doubt there's anything wrong inside.

Anyway, you would obviously be better off just sticking a nice new one in there - I'm only mentioning cleaning / repairing it because sometimes people don't realise they can, or it could just be a fun little side project and might leave you with a working spare starter for the future :)

[kenrick118]

Yep, that's the pinion gear. Thing is, it could be something as simple as a lack of lubrication that's causing it to fail to engage... Eventually with enough tries it gets free, and due to the heat from operating the engine it stays capable of moving until it cools off again (and essentially gums up). The less likely alternative is either a bad wire (on the back of the starter) running from the solenoid body to the pinion gear, but that would be very obvious, either burnt or brittle. Any internal damage would likely make it fail completely so I doubt there's anything wrong inside.

Anyway, you would obviously be better off just sticking a nice new one in there - I'm only mentioning cleaning / repairing it because sometimes people don't realise they can, or it could just be a fun little side project and might leave you with a working spare starter for the future :)

I thought about repairing as you said, but the chance of it failing soon after and the agony of removing and replacing........

my Samsung note 2
(A chain is as strong as it's weakest link)