Official dasMafia engine failure thread... all the other threads rolled into one!

[Dark Helmet]

well, the time has come. The E28 is finally getting the teardown it deserves. after a short fight with the cooling system the other night, it has become ever-obvious that things just are not right. the car had a head gasket "issue" upon purchase, but it has finally come to the point that requires action NOW.

checked the oil yesterday afternoon..... muddy oil.

tonight the hood and intake come off, and then I'll start wrenching on the head.... see what we some up with.

anyone with a few free minutes is more than welcome to lend a hand...

if this works out right, I might even get fresh paint out of it.

in the meantime, we are still shopping for a replacement for the touring.... and maybe a replacement for the E28... we'll just have to see.

[Mr Project]

D'oh! Not exactly unexpected, but still not fun. Except that you get to tear it apart and make it better... that's kinda fun. :D :D

Mi tools es su tools, but I gotta make hay on some other projects right now. Good luck!

[Dark Helmet]

no problem man... I'll need to get my stuff from your garage tonight though...

[Dark Helmet]

well, the head gasket finally let go... really let go.

so the car is sitting waiting for me to get home and tear apart the top end...

I'm sure I'll have some questions for y'all over the next few weeks...


follow the progress here...


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=204102

[big3-5]

Thats too bad...

Slap a new HG on there and it'll be ready for another xxx,xxx miles.

Make sure you take it to a head shop and get them to check it for warpage. It should be free.

If the car is in condition, by all means fix it and drive it. (i.e. no parting out) They have guys out there willing to break apart perfectly good e28s for no good reason...

We need as many e28s on the road as possible!!

-Driver of an e28 535i

[E34nication]

sorry to hear it... re-build it better than ever.

[MGregski]

Ahhh the head gasket issue. Hopefully nothing got damaged and you will be able to replace it without having to resurface the head (actually that should be checked by a machine shop anyways) Good luck, you didn't break anything did you? Didn't overheat? Keep us updated, how about taking some pics so we can have a litte tutorial on the fix?

[Mr Project]

Any progress to report from last night? I got the benz sprayed and a few more tiles put up. Hopefully clear-coating tonight while the weather is warm.

[Dark Helmet]

no progress, car is in the garage though... hopefully I'll be able to get the last of the curtains up tonight, and then tear into the intake.

armen, is it worth having the radiator blown out, or just get a new one????

and I need more baggies, bren used most of them for something!!!!

Big 3-5, if all goes to plan... and work is steady... this might end up as the fastest E28 in the upper great-plains... :D:D:D

psssssshhhhhhht.

[Dark Helmet]

I don't THINK anything is broken... but you never know.

depending on the specifics, it might get a serious case of the whines before it hits the street again...

[brahtw8]

Time for a stroker motor or 3.5 transplant?

[Dark Helmet]

assuming the money situation doesn't fall apart in the next month, the car is getting repainted too...

[SilverStreak]

Sorry to hear that, Jer. You got a lot out of her, though. What's next?

[Dark Helmet]

depends on a few things... right now I'm driving my father-in-law's acura TL (non type-S :( ) I want to get the car back together and running well, but if I can't, I have my eye on an E30 318is... same one I should have bought 2 years ago... great little car.... heck, maybe I'll buy it anyway and have two!!!! :D:D:D

I have never had my OWN project car... so this is kinda fun for me!!!!

[Dark Helmet]

think "old school 543i conversion" :D:D:D

[Mr Project]

That's kinda funny... I've never not had my own project car (or 6). :D Hence the name. :D

Dude, buy a new radiator. It's a wear item on an E28 anyway, and with what yours has been through even just recently, it's a write-off.

Buy the freezer bags with the textured write-on spot. Lots easier to see your sharpie text, and they don't fall apart as easily. Trust me, don't start taking things apart until you have a method... I've done that too many times! (remember the escrap?) :)

[big3-5]

Big 3-5, if all goes to plan... and work is steady... this might end up as the fastest E28 in the upper great-plains... :D:D:D

psssssshhhhhhht.


I like the sound effect... :buttrock

[Mojo325is]

Armen-
Oh I remember the Escrap!!!!

[Mojo325is]

Armen-
Oh I remember the Escrap!!!!

Good luck Jeremy, I'm doing a brake fluid flush this weekend! Yummy!!!!!

[MaloventEvil]

think "old school 543i conversion" :D:D:D
wtf is a 543?

care to clarify :)

[brahtw8]

wtf is a 543?

care to clarify :)

I would guess he means turbocharging in the vein of the E23 745i.

[Dark Helmet]

yup.

[Dark Helmet]

how's the car doing anyway adam????

[SilverStreak]

What's your budget for your replacement car, if needed...?

[MGregski]

Bastard:D Trying to make us feel bad for that:D

[Dark Helmet]

$25.00

truthfully, no clue... depends on my next paycheck...

[Dark Helmet]

and disposing of the touring.

[Mr Project]

I know where you can get a shiny red VW on the cheap.... :devillook

[Mojo325is]

Car is going ok, need to get suspension re-done and alligned.....doing brakes this weekend, so that's going to be good.....going to get the big passenger door ding taken out I think, we have trade at Body Pros...anyone know anything on them????

Hows the 'tank' Armen??

[Dark Helmet]

he has two tanks now... you need to be more specific... :D:D:D

also, everyone keep your eyes open for used E28 performance parts....

1) springs, shocks
2)sway bars
3) strut-tower brace
4) hotter cams (any cam)
5) differentials

while I have it this far apart... might as well!!!

[Mr Project]

Watch out, the "might as well while I'm in there" disease is a killer. Why do you think I haven't driven a Corvair in 7 years?

But, I did see a 3.73 LSD for $200 the other day. Maybe on Roadflea? What ratio would you want?

Adam, the BMW tank is doing ok, needs a little steering-system love, but other things are in the way right now.

The Mercedes tank is killing me. Painting is a pain!

[Mojo325is]

Armen, is your BMW a 90? There was a maroon 90 5er for sale at a used car place I drove by on L Street last night on my way to the gym....I thought about stopping by just to see how much and what the deal was....maybe I still will....

[Dark Helmet]

never hurts to look...

Armen... if you can find that diff... I'll buy it immediately.

and as long as no one tells the wife about the whole "while I'm in there disease" being a bad thing... all will be good... she's currently under the impression that its a good idea... :D:D:D

[Mr Project]

You are ....sooooo lazy (http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/general/detview.php?view=30464)

[Mr Project]

Adam, mine's a '91, basically the same thing in '90 if it's a 535i. '90 525i would be the M20....reliable but sloooooooowwww.

[Mr Project]

More parts for the lazy.... (http://www.roadfly.org/bmw/classifieds/general/detview.php?view=30050)

Racing Dynamics spring set$150.
Racing Dynamics 22mm 2 point adjustable front swaybar & 16mm 3 point adjustable rear swaybar set $200.
European front bumper-complete in excellent shape $200.
European front valance in excellent shape $150.
E28 M5/535iS rear spoilers (2) alpineweiss and schwarz, both in excellent shape $150 each.
3.07, 3.25, 3.46, & 3.73 limited slip differentials in excellent shape with low mileage $300 each.

[big3-5]

1) springs, shocks
2)sway bars
3) strut-tower brace
4) hotter cams (any cam)
5) differentials

while I have it this far apart... might as well!!!

You might already know this, but the cam from an e34 535i with the m30b35 engine is a hotter cam for the m30b34 in your e28. You can't just plop the head on, however. You would get a static compression of about 7:1!! To do the cam swap, you would basically have to rebuild your head with new rockers and other bits. But If you have to tear it down for re-surfacing, anyway, it might be worthwhile. The cam is the same part # as the cam in the Euro-spec, non KAT, 10:1 m30b35 found in true Euro e28s and the M535i.

The MAF, throttle body, and intake from an m30b35 will also work, but the MAF will require a little wire splicing.

Also, the flywheel from an '83-4 Motronic 533-633i with manual tranny is about 14 lbs, considerably lighter than the stock 535i flywheel. Make sure it has the tab for the referencr sensors on it.

Good luck!

[Mr Project]

The MAF, throttle body, and intake from an m30b35 will also work, but the MAF will require a little wire splicing.


You mean AFM (flapper-door)? I didn't think any of the M30's had a MAF (hot-wire) stock. Or are the terms interchangable?

[Mr Project]

the cam from an e34 535i with the m30b35 engine is a hotter cam for the m30b34 in your e28.

Oh, great... now I have to put a guard dog out by my car at night...he'll be trying to 5-finger himself some M30B35 parts... :D

[94E36-325is]

Oh, great... now I have to put a guard dog out by my car at night...he'll be trying to 5-finger himself some M30B35 parts... :D

Too bad you couldn't just put your car in the garage like normal people!! :D

[big3-5]

You mean AFM (flapper-door)? I didn't think any of the M30's had a MAF (hot-wire) stock. Or are the terms interchangable?

:eek:

Oooops, my bad. For some reason I thought the e34 had a MAF. I see it has an AFM. Sorry for the confusion. The other stuff is good...

[Dark Helmet]

someone better start talking me out of those euro-bumpers FAST!!!!

also, what would it cost to swap the "output shaft" (I assume he means input shaft) on that diff, found several E28-specific 3.73s and that 3.46 for $300, and If I have to pay someone a bunch of money to do it right, I might as well but the E28 part in the first place.

hmmmmmm, E34 cams.... very interesting... any reasont that the existing valvetrain wouldn't work for this???

[Dark Helmet]

I'm tempted to offer him $$$ SHIPPED for the springs, bumper, valence, spoiler, and diff...

do we know the stock measurements for the E28 M5 sways????

[Mr Project]

someone better start talking me out of those euro-bumpers FAST!!!!

You don't need euro bumpers. I think the US bumpers actually look kinda cool. The car looks too small and a little slack-jawed with the euro bumps.


also, what would it cost to swap the "output shaft" (I assume he means input shaft) on that diff,

Umm... I have a torque wrench. I even have a dial indicator guage if we need to pre-load something. I don't think it's that complex.


hmmmmmm, E34 cams.... very interesting... any reason that the existing valvetrain wouldn't work for this???

Big 3-5 said that the rockers and such would have to be replaced or swapped from the E34 head. Not sure what all the issues are there?

[Dark Helmet]

well, I have two choices.

stock-look, stock-drive, +turbo

OR

Cam, 535 engine management, suspension, wheels, tires, euro-look...


you see, its not so simple, and choice 2 is appealing to me a lot at the moment, especially since it will be a driver for another 12-24 months...

[Mr Project]

E28 M5 sways: 25mm front, 18mm rear.

[Mr Project]

Well, at any rate, until he gets done I'm going to enjoy my 'fastest 5er on the block' title. :)

[Dark Helmet]

you should be pushing me towards #2, if you want any prayer of keeping that title...

[Dark Helmet]

Big 3-5 said that the rockers and such would have to be replaced or swapped from the E34 head. Not sure what all the issues are there?

the question is "why"

if it is a "proper adjustment" issue, you can get oversize eccentrics for a lot less than new rocker arms!!!!

and I can buy your cam new for $200... lots less than $500, and I don't need to get new valve-springs and stuff...

but then, If I do really "cam" it.... :D:D:D:D

stock valve sizes are 1.81" and 1.5" I think. maybe while they have the head, they could open them up to 1.6 and 2.02???? :D:D:D depending on the length of the valves, those are el-cheapo chevy sizes you can get from summit...

dangit, monday isn't coming fast enough!!!!!

[Dark Helmet]

interesting... M5 bars are bigger... not adjustable, but bigger...

[Dark Helmet]

resurface head & valve job: $200
bigger valves: just sign over your firstborn

so, think its time to move this to 5er???

[Mr Project]

Probably should, just to get a tiny bit of E28 tech in there.

[Dark Helmet]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=43956&item=2475587305&rd=1

that's interesting.... ~$180 less than cheapest set of cross-spokes I found.

[Dark Helmet]

and... moving....

[Dark Helmet]

moved :D

[Dark Helmet]

You don't need euro bumpers. I think the US bumpers actually look kinda cool. The car looks too small and a little slack-jawed with the euro bumps.



but they weight bunch less... :D:D:D

and as aaron said: "dude, its not like your wife is driving the car and you NEED a 300lb rubber/steel intermediary..."

[Mr Project]

I'm still trying to understand weight reduction on a BMW...if you want something light, give me $50 and you can have my RX-7. :)

Still think the US bumpers look better, but I know I'm in the huge minority..... as usual. :D

[SilverStreak]

An old 6 series maybe....?

[ELIBEEMER]

I did the top end rebuild on my E28...twice.

But fairly straight forward.

I cant stress enough how important (and Expensive) to install a NEW timing chain.

The first time, I just had a blown head gasket...but I sent the head out anyways for a 3 angle valve grind, and installed a Euro Cam (+10 hp..?)

Might as well take the front engine cover,install new chain guides and New H20 Pump wouldn't hurt.


I snapped some shots on my car domain...

BTW that was on my 533i that had a 735 3.5L M30 swap.

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/227138/5
First time

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/227138/7
Second Time, I didn't bother taking any more pics, I was LIVID!

Good luck on yours...

-ELI

[Mblaster]

While the heads off you might as well do a port and polish.

[Dark Helmet]

well, some interesting news... bad things came out when I drained the coolant from the block... so that will be interesting..

does anyone know WHY swapping a new cam in requires NEW rocker arms... seems unnecessary to me.

need to get a handle on the money situation on monday, and then I can start ordering parts... although I do need to figure out if the bottom end is gone or not...

[Dark Helmet]

well, sitting and pricing all the things i will likely need to fix the engine, it would be WAY cheaper to just get a good used unit...

so it looks like I might not be going a lot faster any time soon...

535 swap, here I come!

not that I wont still update the suspension and get a new diff...

[MaloventEvil]

rofl good luck.

[MaloventEvil]

I'm still trying to understand weight reduction on a BMW...if you want something light, give me $50 and you can have my RX-7. :)

Still think the US bumpers look better, but I know I'm in the huge minority..... as usual. :D
do you accept paypal? :D

mr project: this is a bit OT but do you know if YOUR 535i has the factory alarm connector (the one under the back seat for using aftermarket alarms) when i look under my back seat all i see is wires coming out of a black box and i was wondering if the connector is under that or not because my wires are bundled over one of the nuts so i cant open the cover to look in the box. :(

[dubumb]

How much do m30 engines usually cost?

[Mr Project]

Remember, a wise man would freshen up a JY 535 motor before putting it in... new HG and gaskets at least. Adds $100 or so to the JY motor, if you can avoid 'while-I'm-in-there-itis'. :)

That said, do you still have the # for that guy in Des Moines? Maybe it's time to give him a call....

[Dark Helmet]

depends on what they are... for 5K I can get an S38...

but for 1K I could get an excellent 535...

[Dark Helmet]

not sure I want to go down "fabrication lane" but I have thought of it...

what was that site with the JY search you were talking about yesterday..

and it looks like I do have to replace the rockers, ~$200.

add the intake and ECU (+$200)
add the head work ($200)
lord knows what is wrong with the bottom end...

[Mr Project]

Dude, for $1k you could get an M50, maybe even with a tranny. That would be kinda cool. A 200HP E28 that gets 30 MPG.... :D

[Mr Project]

http://www.car-part.com

[Dark Helmet]

Dude, for $1k you could get an M50, maybe even with a tranny. That would be kinda cool. A 200HP E28 that gets 30 MPG.... :D

tooooooo much fabrication!!!!

[Dark Helmet]

but that is an interesting idea...

[Dark Helmet]

dude, call me, at the office.

[Dark Helmet]

if any of you is an M30 expert, or knows one, drop me a PM, I have a bunch of questions I need answered...

[big3-5]

I don't know how to PM. Whats up? I'm no expert, but I got time on this rainy day...

[MaloventEvil]

post the problems and im sure either pat or project or someone will help you!

[MaloventEvil]

dude, call me, at the office.
rofl he is concidering it!

[Dark Helmet]

no, found a motor in St Louis... need driving buddy..

[Dark Helmet]

well, here's the deal, I got some of the questions answered, but I'm just not 100% on this.

is there anything different between a 735 motor and a 533 motor that would make the swap difficult...

and...

can I just use the 735 computer and intake... even if its from an auto-trans car????

[SilverStreak]

What motor? Where's your bro?

[Dark Helmet]

busy negotiating a new job and working on my dad's car...

and he knows ZERO about M30s....

[SilverStreak]

I meant as a driving buddy this weekend....

[Dark Helmet]

that's what I meant.

[SilverStreak]

Sorry, I saw "and he knows ZERO about M30s...." and took it differently....

Where is Gary? Any where near where you are going?

[big3-5]

Mr. dasMafia,

I found a good thread about 533>535 swap on roadfly:

http://bimmer.roadfly.org/bmw/forums/e28/4816619-1.html

There is a guy on the roadfly e28 forum that goes by the name "donnie j". He is the resident 533>535 guy. Address him directly with your questions, and he should be very helpful.

Geez, I must be bored if I am doing other peoples research... :) :)

[Dark Helmet]

turns out... brother wants to get out of town...

we leave in an hour... talk to you hosers tomorrow, $325 lighter.

[Dark Helmet]

thanks dude... so I need the MAF, harness and ECU... new injectors and all the other goodies should be bought new IMO...

I think I will just get the new motor running, and then make it faster later.

[big3-5]

I think I will just get the new motor running, and then make it faster later.

I think that's an excellent idea.

You're welcome!

[SilverStreak]

Updates?

[Dark Helmet]

having trouble disconnecting fuel system on existing motor...

anyone know how to disconnect the fuel lines on an 83 533i

[Dark Helmet]

engine is purchased...

need to get old one out SOON!!!!

[Mr Project]

What's the ETA on the motor? And what ancillary parts are coming with it?

Just pull the clamps off and don't worry. There's probably not much pressure left anymore anyway, and you can wrap a rag around the hose as you pull it off if you're still concerned about it. If you want to be really careful, you can leave the hoses disconnected and run the fuel pump to rinse out the lines right before you hook them up.

[Dark Helmet]

no harness and no ECU... some price break... not as much as I wanted.

if they get another car, they are supposed to call me with the ECU and harness for a "minimal fee"

the guys at myE28 said its hose clamps, that's it... so I guess that I'll have some flamable-rag fun tonight!!!!

no ETA, should have it later today.

[Dark Helmet]

ok, waiting for price quote from BMA... need to add a few things to the list though.

$315 shipped for front and rear strut-braces sound good??? I didn't find used ones anywhere... and check out the front bar...

[Mr Project]

Price doesn't sound bad, but I'd spend that on a clutch if you didn't already. Plus the rear bar is kinda pointless. You have a trunk and a roof now, dude, there's not much flex back there. :)

[Dark Helmet]

the rear bar is only $90... if it was much more, I'd skip it.

as for clutch, I think it was a mount issue... which reminds me, I need to add new motor mounts to teh order as well as the air intake boots...

[Dark Helmet]

Engine Will Be Here By Friday!!!!!

[Dark Helmet]

I am sooooooooo not looking forward to shelling out a grand to BMA... (quick estimate=$1200 IIRC)

OUCH!

but, there are worse things in the world.

[Mr Project]

Man, even $90, you could buy new master and slave cylinders for the clutch, which are going to fail anyway. Better investment than trunk jewelry... no one even sees it! If you really want a rear bar, buy a piece of steel and I'll weld some u-bolts on it.

[Dark Helmet]

I would prefer to have you soldering all my questionable connections in the engine bay...

it will be a few weeks anyway on the bars...

RD springs got sold, so I will be waiting on the shocks, springs and wheels for a while yet.... which is OK.

[Dark Helmet]

update...

almost done with the wiring harnes disconnect, only three wires to go IIRC.

then I just need to get the intake off and the new parts sent over.

[Dark Helmet]

update:

parts order for BMA: initial estimate $640, still need to add the sway-bar mounts and new plugs, and a gasket set.

[Dark Helmet]

update:

the engine is already in lincoln!!!! holy moly!!!!

so I need to get BMA moving on my order.... wow.

[Dark Helmet]

Update....

the BMA order should be in the mail, the exhaust manifolds are out, and the transmission and driveshaft are next.

I have one or two little things left on the intake, but now that I know what I am doing up there... piece of cake.

[SilverStreak]

So what;s the latest? :D

[Dark Helmet]

no update... at a point where two sets of hands are required to get anything done...

tired though... very, very tired.

[SilverStreak]

Where the hell is your bro?

[Dark Helmet]

working...

armen and justin were over last night and the entire exhaust and the driveshaft are both out.

armen also finished getting the harness undone.

nothing else can happen until I have the engine hoist.

[Dark Helmet]

not a lot of progress, I think I am getting burned out on this.

the car is out in the driveway, the new engine is prepped for the most part, and I just need to disconnect the transmission and pull the old engine... then its just reassembly time...

unless a miracle of assistance happens tomorrow, not going to be running on monday.... I would be happy with the new engine in the car by monday.

[big3-5]

Don't give up!! You're almost there...

[Dark Helmet]

zero done today....

BMA order should be here tomorrow, that might get me moving.

wifes car needs brakes and some other work.... just dont have time....

[MaloventEvil]

zero done today....

BMA order should be here tomorrow, that might get me moving.

wifes car needs brakes and some other work.... just dont have time....
this is the point where you need to drink some coffee sweetened with rockstar.

[SilverStreak]

Whassup, Jer?

[Dark Helmet]

sway bars arrived today... :D

no work done yet though, still at the office...

[SilverStreak]

Get the cordless and get to work, then.... :D

[Mr Project]

I think he's at that fun point in big projects... the point where you just want to toss the whole thing into the nearest lake. Which is a problem because they are draining the nearest lake right now. :)

I'm still hoping Thursday can work, J. Let me know. Wednesday might be an option, too.

[Dark Helmet]

both work for me... I will call aaron and justin and jeff... need more hands...

[Mr Project]

Update:

The engine is loose, the tranny is disconnected, but they are not separated yet. Last night we worked for 2 hours in the pouring rain.... it's not as much fun as it sounds.

[Dark Helmet]

methinks that the transmission needs to just come out... disconnect the shifter and all... what fun.

[Dark Helmet]

are we working tonight?

its getting COLD!

[525iT_Feen]

Almost there guys....Almost.

Dont give up.

[Mr Project]

I tend to agree that the tranny should just get pulled. Maybe you guys can make some progress on Saturday without me.

[Dark Helmet]

we'll see.... I am just getting too tired.

I'm off to Crete for a pair of appointments, hopefully come back with some income....

wish me luck, dude.

[Mr Project]

Dude, you're driving the truck. You need to hope that you come back with kidneys. Keep the belt loose and lower the tailgate.

[Dark Helmet]

no need, borrowed the TL from brendas dad....

[Mr Project]

Ahh, your internal organs thanks you. OPEC is pretty ticked about it, though. :)

[Dark Helmet]

nice..... VERY nice...

next friday its ashland in the morning and crete in the afternoon.