Dependable & Reliable for Daily Driving?

[Phylum]

I'm in search of a sporty 4-door vehicle along the lines of S4's, M5's (E60), C63's etc., but I'm really concerned about reliability & dependability. I'm coming from a nearly 10 year old Toyota that's only needed a clutch replacement (at around 81k) since I've had it. Its never given me any issues and I'm hoping to find something just as reliable. But I have serious, serious doubts now:



Two different coworkers shared their BMW ownership with me and urged me to reconsider. (For what its worth: one was used and the other one was new via European delivery.)
I spoke with a BMW technician at a BMW dealership about getting a PPI done. I asked him for some input based on what he's seen and he really made it seem like it was a hit or miss gamble. He told me a story about an M5 that came in for maintenance once. Everything checked out, the car was running fine, no issues - just a standard maintenance. Within a short period of time, the owner all sorts of issues with it. The shop ended up replacing the 'cats' (at least that what it sounded like he said) for $5k, both VANOS lines at $2k each until they got to the crank bearing at which point the owner literally said "ef it - I don't want it" and got rid of the car. I was shocked: (1) ~$10k in a few months and he ditches the car and (2) this is coming from a BMW tech! One would think he (the tech) would be encouraging me to get one, but he seemed like he was really looking out.
A friend of mine happens owns his own shop, and in his humble opinion, the semi auto models are a drag to drive and not as fluid as you would expect coming from BMW. One of his customers has an E60 with an SMG, and he said the automatic is all over the place.


And that's just the BMW's! I haven't even hit up the Audi and Mercedes forums for their 'common issues'.


To be candid, it makes sense to me to have to pay a little more for a 'sports car' and, granted, every performance car is going to have its issues, but I'm not looking to sink thousands every year just to keep it running.


In my search for an M5, I've seen *lot* of SMG M5's up for sale, but only a few manual transmission M5's. The ratio is literally something like 1 MT for every 50-65 SMG's, at best. This, to me, gives credence to the idea that SMG's are either more problematic, or the manual transmissions are just so awesome, no one wants to let them go. (Of course, I'm also aware that many of these vehicles are ordered by middle aged men who don't want to be bothered by an MT, so there's that.)

Obviously, its one thing if I'm driving the car into the ground, and putting some serious load on it:


racing light to light
participating in heavy 'spirited driving' all the time
slamming into corners and hairpin turns at 90mph
frequent burnouts, redlining, pulling the handbrake when making u-turns
evading police and helicopters a la GTA
robbing banks etc


But that's not my driving style. I'm an adult, I've got a family, so I won't be doing anything foolish.

Is it wrong for me to want and expect


relatively low maintenance
almost no serious issues
high reliability
high dependability


From a car of this caliber that's used as a daily driver? (About 5k-6k miles per year)

I'm really interested in the community feedback. I want to make as informed a decision as possible, even if its to say that that maybe an M5 isn't for me.

[Gilgorm]

An M5 isn't for you.

Drive an M5 then drive a 'regular' E60. There are huge differences but if you don't want (on occasion) to drive the M5 like you stole it then why bother, especially coming from a Toyota anything.
A 550i should keep you more than happy and a 535i should keep you happy as well.

Having owned both MB and BMW they both require higher maintenance dollars than a Toyota but the fun factor of any of the models far outweighs the cost.
Happy hunting.

[Phylum]

Thanks for taking the time to not only read but also reply!

This is great feedback, and I'll see if I can take one for a spin. I've been looking at a 535i/xi for a while anyway (the N54 is a great platform from what I've picked up here & there) so that might not be a bad choice.
I do expect higher maintenance ($180-220 for an oil change, $700/axel for brakes etc) dollars than a Toyota ($60 for an oil change, 200-ish for brakes) and that I can deal with. I just don't want to spend 5k a year so I can occasionally participate in some spirited driving; or the occasional race with my friend's SL550.

As for driving like I stole it - lol! I've got a 2.4l 4cyl and I have my fun; I imagine it would only get better having some serious power under the hood.

I think you hit it on the head though "the fun factor of any of the models far outweighs the cost"
I remember going to a Lexus event in 05/06 when they unveiled the IS250/350 - they let a bunch of people drive a handful of cars for comparison. The IS was quick (but cramped) and what I expected from a Lexus. The MB was luxurious, smooth with plenty of eye candy. But the BMW was by far my favorite: I felt really connected, seemed very responsive and never forgot that feeling. I'd like to get it back.


Again, thanks - I appreciate your input.

[bud92273]

Have a good hard look at the 550's. As far as the E60 BMW goes, they seem to be the most reliable. I looked for about six months before I decided on one. Drove nearly every model and did plenty of research. Auto Transmission issues are probably the most common issue with a 550 but if you can find a manual you shouldn't need to worry about it. I've had mine for two years and have put a battery in and tires, nothing out of the ordinary. There is plenty of power for spirited driving, its a beautiful machine and very comfortable. I enjoy every minute behind the wheel. Good luck with the search.

[02325]

I have worked as a BMW tech for just over 7 years. left teh BMW job back in late 08. Been with MB for just over 2 years now. I will say this. These cars are hit or miss. SOME have major issues and some are prob free.

BUT IMO do not get a AMG or "M" car just for a fun car. these require lots of maintance. M5 will get 8-10 mpg at best. maybe hit 13 or so on the hwy. the AMG cars are cool, but still get sucky mpg and maintance is just outrageous.

Like stated a V8 5-series or better yet the trubo 6 will give you the fun factor. the C350 are not all that bad in perf. they will get up and go if you hit the loud pedal.

another thing about manual trans. They are options. Car makers have to meet a certain MPG overall. With manuals it is hard to say "this car will get 18 mpg" due to every one driving them different. With the new age "auto" they can be just as fun. I have only seen possibly 5 manual MB since I have worked here. all were older cars and 4 cyl. Our AMG cars are awesome with the autos tho. flip the paddle and it shifts way faster than you can even blink. I will say the NEW CLA 45 will haul the groceries with its turbo 4. It has a hydro shifted manual trans. I have to say the AMG cars sound soooooo much better than any M car. MB lets them breathe. BMW does not.

[Gator325525]

Not much I can add to this discussion as the others have really made all the right points. OP, I would just ask you to consider why you are wanting to make the switch from Toyota (about as reliable as they come) to a high end European luxury/performance car that requires gobs of maintenance and money.

The M5 is an awesome car, but I wouldn't want to use one that's out of warranty as a daily driver. As a third or fourth weekend car, it would be heavenly to own and drive but if it's your primary means of transportation then you better like writing checks. As mentioned above, the 550i gives you nearly three-quarters of the M5's performance at half the cost of ownership. I can afford to own an M5, but I chose a 550i simply because I don't like having to stop at the gas pump every 200 miles.

[pbonsalb]

I would go drive the "sports sedans" from Honda, Acura, Nissan, Infiniti, Toyota, and Lexus to see if you can find something you like. They have better repair records and some of them are pretty sporty. For someone coming from a 10 year old Toyota, any of these will be good.

We have an 08 535xit that we like. It has been pretty good. A couple of failed engine solenoids, a TPS antenna, and an electric water pump have been the only issues in 50k miles. But if you look at the repair records -- go to the library and review the Consumer Reports car reliability summaries, you will see it is not a recommended car.

My 08 M3 has needed only a pair of oxygen sensors and a fuel pressure sensor in 3 years.

I considered E60 M5, but did not want to risk out of warranty expenses and miserable fuel economy. I think I would enjoy driving it just as much. When I bought, the prices for the M3 and M5 were about the same for used examples. Can you guess why?

Audi seem to have a much worse repair record, though they are beautiful cars and make great daily drivers when running well.

Mercedes trades some sportiness and feel for grunt in the C63 models. I'll stick with sportiness until I am a little older, though I think the grunt would be very entertaining and have to admit that I do not drive on a roadcourse every day where I need the best handling possible.

In sum, I think you will pay a greater premium than you want or expect for one of the German cars.