dash warning lights

[doclees]

1994 325ic just started with instrument warning lights coming on. Wife's car so I didn't see this start but was told that the brake warning light was coming on. I knew the brakes were getting close to the warning sensors so I ordered brakes and rotors. Next day she tells me all the lights were coming on together and then off. Finally got it to do it for me. All pre-ignintion lights come on for a second or two and go off. Same check lights when you first turn the key to "on" before you engage the starter. Any clues? Didn't seem to affect running of car.

[Eric93se]

So when is this happening? after driving a bit or just seconds after the normal check lights all lighting up?

If the cluster was going bad I would think the lights would fail to come on and not come on randomly like that. Have you had any heavy rains recently?

[doclees]

All just started about 1 week ago. Yes to heavy rains. Here in PA. You know the rain this year has been much. Seems to be random. Friday frequent on the way to work then only a couple of times on the way back. 15 miles each way. Had wife park it Saturday after hearing about this. I ran it around the block this am and no lights. then again at noon and there it was. Wife said it affected the gas gauge but I didn't see that, just the startup warning lights. Something shorting? Corrosion on contacts? Safe to drive?

[Eric93se]

Well it could be bad wiring so I guess that's one place to start. Check the wiring in the trunk, pull all the trim off the left side and check all the wire harnesses. Then on the trunk lid, carefully cut open the harness on the lid itself, left side. You can to either replace the bad wires, tape them with electrical tape or get a new subharness ~$100 (referring to the trunk lid section).

[doclees]

Are these common points of wiring wear? Not a brain box thing somewhere? thanks

[bigchompz]

I know all my lights n whole cluster seemed to b going crazy new 140amp alternator problem solved

[Eric93se]

Well thats one thing to try, turn on EVERYTHING, all lights , radio, accessories all while the engine is running, measure the battery voltage, should still be around 14V, some regulate at 14.4V some at 13.8V.

[bigchompz]

Do it do it

[CMG]

Op i think you should be more clear on what lights are going on when

[Eric93se]

He says its all of the dash warning lights, the same as when you start the car and the bulb check runs. He says its occurring randomly well after the car is running and he's driving along.

[gchutes]

can you take a video for us?

[doclees]

Thanks guys, Video I can try tonight when the car is in my possession along with checking voltage. I did try stressing the system with running lights, fan and radio but I can recheck with ac, flashers and dropping the top. It's total random. Cold car or warm car. Random electrical is the biggest PITA.

[flyfishvt]

Seems pretty obvious it's a bad cluster. Just get a used one with slightly fewer miles than yours. $35-$50 and 30 minutes later you're done

[doclees]

Seems pretty obvious it's a bad cluster. Just get a used one with slightly fewer miles than yours. $35-$50 and 30 minutes later you're done
Why does it seem obvious flyfishvt? Seen a few go this way? Will it affect the running of the car if it fails completely? thanks

[doclees]

OK update. Wife said she lost all cluster info. No speedo, tach, gas gauge to empty, no lights. But it drove fine.

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I got video! As soon as I can clip it, post it to youtube and link it I will. But the question remains, is it still safe to drive even if it dies completely? Will the car still run?

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http://youtu.be/7vG4Aeq9i98

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Car is on this entire time.

[bigchompz]

Actually my car is still doing it sometimes it will come on after awhile

[doclees]

Which cluster fit the 94 325ic? Can I use Pelican Parts list? they say it is the same part number for as late as 1999.

[Eric93se]

You want to get one from a 96+ E36, they are supposed to be the updated version. But read about 'coding' the new cluster, and they say you should get one with fewer miles than what is on your car currently. I don't know the specifics, so do some forum searching to figure it out or wait till someone will chime in here.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2036153-Headlight-buzzer-stuck-on-and-gauges-died

[doclees]

http://bavauto.com/newsletter/2005_n405_newsletter.pdf#page5
so this article says there are niCad batteries in some clusters and or service interval pc boards that go bad. Does this apply to my year? Are there these boards out there or is it still best to get a used cluster?

[locks325is]

Seems pretty obvious it's a bad cluster. Just get a used one with slightly fewer miles than yours. $35-$50 and 30 minutes later you're done

^ This.
Then I would check all of the grounds, other circuits & replace or repair as needed.

[doclees]

So to clarify I can use an OBDI or OBDII, 96 and newer, cluster with less miles reading than my 127k and all "should" be fine? Some things I read got a bit confusing.

[JDStrickland]

I'd like to suggest you manipulate the key and see if you can force the symptoms to repeat. Since the lights that come on are the ones that come on before engine start, then my guess is that the ignition switch is making and breaking at odd intervals, causing the lights to come on. The lights think the condition is that the key is in the RUN position, before engine start, even though the engine has already started. Manipulate the key and see if you can cause or cure the symptoms. If yes, then an ignition switch is in your future.

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You want to get one from a 96+ E36, they are supposed to be the updated version. But read about 'coding' the new cluster, and they say you should get one with fewer miles than what is on your car currently. I don't know the specifics, so do some forum searching to figure it out or wait till someone will chime in here.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?2036153-Headlight-buzzer-stuck-on-and-gauges-died



I just read that a few days ago too.

The reason for the lower mileage cluster is that when it is "recoded", the higher of the mileage on the cluster or the mileage currently on the car will be the mileage that is set. There is memory in the car and memory in the cluster, and the memory locations store (among other things) the mileage. When recoded, the higher mileage is stored. If you have a high mileage (new, or donor) cluster, that higher mileage will be stored in the car. If you have a low mileage donor cluster, then the high mileage of the car will be put into the cluster. Since the high mileage of the car is the true mileage, there is no harm. But if the car has low mileage, the donor cluster will prevail and its mileage will now be in the car.

[doclees]

Thanks JD we got any other typical symptoms of a ignition switch going bad? flyfishvt believes it is obviously the cluster. Anyone have an ignition switch problem look like an instrument cluster going bad?

[EE05063]

I didn't read anything but the OP here but this sounds like a ignition switch failure to me. Not the key cylinder part, but the actual electronic switch that the key cylinder activates.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

[doclees]

Ok let me muck the symptom list. Easily the last 60k miles a rare event upon startup. A hard start like it would run on less than 6 cyl. It would smooth out after about a min. Sometimes I would just shut it off and restart without an issue. Does this sound related?

[doclees]

In playing with the car today I was fiddling with the key and ignition. Couldn't get it to flash cluster lights but I did notice a fan sound from the dash. All climate controls were off. this fan sound would sometimes come on after turning key off or just continue to run for a min after the key was off. Anything here related to the cluster?

[Eric93se]

Not the cluster, has to do with the climate control, its normal.

[doclees]

Thanks Eric93se.

[JDStrickland]

You are mixing too many fruits in your basket.

The vent system has fans that come on after the key is off, and they eventually stop. I think that what you actually hear is the air mixing flaps moving around, but either way the vent system makes noises after the key is off.

You asked in Post #25 if there is a relationship in symptoms in that post and the symptoms in this thread. The short answer is, perhaps. The Ignition Switch does several different things through several diffferent sets of contacts. You are describing what might happen when different sets of contacts do not make well, the results are unreliable operation of each of the systems that any given set of contacts is supposed to control.

There is always the possibility of a bad cluster, or just a bad ground to the cluster, although I'd expect a bad ground to cause lights to not come on as opposed to coming on randomly.

When lights, several of them, are supposed to come on with a particular event and then only come on again to display a fault condition, but they all come on again at once as if the particular event has taken place again, then I'd be looking for things that mimic the event. In this instance, the event comes when the key is turned on after being turned off, so your syptom set is that the car thinks the key is turning off then back on. The LIGHTS think this because the rest of the car runs properly, except that in Post #25, you describe symptoms where the main computer thinks the key is off so the car shuts down. You cycle the key and the car runs normally.

My money is on the Ignition Switch as part or all of your problem.

[doclees]

thanks JD, That's what I wanted to know if the ignition switch was a plausible fault. I assume you saw the video. I'll try inspecting that next.

[kahtadin]

I am having what I think is the same problem, 1993 325i, I'll be driving along, all instruments needles drop to zero,all cluster lights go off, then seconds later all return and all indicator lights come on in cluster, then shut down one by one, everything is fine, sometimes for miles and miles, other times it'll repeat within minutes. Doesn't affect engine or idle. Scratching my head here...

[doclees]

I've got a used ignition switch coming and will try that first. I will report back after that.

[EE05063]

I am having what I think is the same problem, 1993 325i, I'll be driving along, all instruments needles drop to zero,all cluster lights go off, then seconds later all return and all indicator lights come on in cluster, then shut down one by one, everything is fine, sometimes for miles and miles, other times it'll repeat within minutes. Doesn't affect engine or idle. Scratching my head here...

Sounds like a faulty ignition switch as well. I had a car do this once is how I came to the conclusion. I "diagnosed" it by getting access to the harness behind the ignition switch and wiggling on it, which would trigger the symptom. Then it became clear every time it happened while driving was at the moment I hit a bump in the road. Occasionally I could get power back by hitting the steering column with my fist. Good times.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4

[JDStrickland]

Sounds like a faulty ignition switch as well. I had a car do this once is how I came to the conclusion. I "diagnosed" it by getting access to the harness behind the ignition switch and wiggling on it, which would trigger the symptom. Then it became clear every time it happened while driving was at the moment I hit a bump in the road. Occasionally I could get power back by hitting the steering column with my fist. Good times.

Sent from my SCH-I535 using Tapatalk 4


Sounds like my dad and the TV.

[doclees]

Since fixing the leak in the convertible top lights have gone from the entire cluster to just brake light and brake fluid level. Hasn't changed since changing the ignition switch. I have just done the front rotors and pads too so I will now recheck that system.

[doclees]

No change with "new" ignition switch so it's back looking for a cluster. Wife was wrong about only brake lights coming on. Pretty much the same as before but not getting the warning bells, just all the warning lights. I also noticed that the gauge faces have ghost spots on them at night. Is this the delamination I have read about?

[locks325is]

No change with "new" ignition switch so it's back looking for a cluster. Wife was wrong about only brake lights coming on. Pretty much the same as before but not getting the warning bells, just all the warning lights. I also noticed that the gauge faces have ghost spots on them at night. Is this the delamination I have read about?

Good lord .... Get another cluster! WHY are you changing ignition switches? If the only problem is the cluster, why would you people think the ignition switch is the problem??? Even if the car is hard to start, the ignition switch would NOT be the first place I would look to for the fix.

[RobMCoupe]

Have you check your battery? Dash light flicker and mileage reset are sign the battery is going bad.

[doclees]

Good lord .... Get another cluster! WHY are you changing ignition switches? If the only problem is the cluster, why would you people think the ignition switch is the problem??? Even if the car is hard to start, the ignition switch would NOT be the first place I would look to for the fix.

Well some had this as a possibility. Also at $20 it was worth having the extra part around. And also i'm trying to get another cluster but not so easy finding one with lower miles and in good shape. I'm not keen on buying a rebuilt for $800 but I will if necessary. I think flyfishvt said get one for $50. Love to if I can find one with less than 128k and in good shape. Nothing local yet and ebay is averaging $150 for one I would consider.

[locks325is]

Well some had this as a possibility. Also at $20 it was worth having the extra part around. And also i'm trying to get another cluster but not so easy finding one with lower miles and in good shape. I'm not keen on buying a rebuilt for $800 but I will if necessary. I think flyfishvt said get one for $50. Love to if I can find one with less than 128k and in good shape. Nothing local yet and ebay is averaging $150 for one I would consider.

Based on the conditions you stated, the last thing I would have touched would be the switch, how that became the focus makes no sense to me. Sometimes having too many cooks in the kitchen can be a bad thing, lol.

[darknight528i]

Take out the OBC computer & sunglass holder, then look for crimper or bent wired, that was my culprit when all my dash lights went out, its worth a try.

[doclees]

Take out the OBC computer & sunglass holder, then look for crimper or bent wired, that was my culprit when all my dash lights went out, its worth a try.
Was this on your 528 or a 3 series?