Vibration at low speed coming from the driveshaft ... once again :(

[M73PWR]

Howdy!

Background story:
I had this issue before and found that the rubber bushing around my carrier bearing was ripped to ish.
While replacing I made a boo boo and didnt mark the driveshafts - so when i pulled them apart I couldn't put them back in-phase :banghead:
Optimistic as I am, I just learned from this mistake and visually put them back together as close as possible and after reassembly there was no vibration at all so I though I lucked out!
...
Well 2 months later it came back - same exact symptom and everything

I bought the carrier bearing brand new the first time so I got warranty on it and I also got a flex disk (guibo) that I want to replace while I am at it (i saw a few hairline cracks when I was underneath the car the first time)

So my thought is that since the driveshaft is out of phase (not balanced) its possible that it tore through the bushing once again.

QUESTION:
I'm gonna have the driveshaft rebalanced, BUT do you guys think I should look at something else?

Anyone been in my shoes before?

Thank you for your time!!

[M73PWR]

Howdy!


Background story:
I had this issue before and found that the rubber bushing around my carrier bearing was ripped to ish.
While replacing I made a boo boo and didnt mark the driveshafts - so when i pulled them apart I couldn't put them back in-phase http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/webkit-fake-url://1571A40A-43ED-483E-8A52-372FBF06FD76/banghead.gif
Optimistic as I am, I just learned from this mistake and visually put them back together as close as possible and after reassembly there was no vibration at all so I though I lucked out!
...
Well 2 months later it came back - same exact symptom and everything


I bought the carrier bearing brand new the first time so I got warranty on it and I also got a flex disk (guibo) that I want to replace while I am at it (i saw a few hairline cracks when I was underneath the car the first time)


So my thought is that since the driveshaft is out of phase (not balanced) its possible that it tore through the bushing once again.


QUESTION:
I'm gonna have the driveshaft rebalanced, BUT do you guys think I should look at something else?


Anyone been in my shoes before?


Thank you for your time!!

[IcemanBHE]

I would have it balanced.

One thread please...

[bladerealm124]

Howdy!

Background story:
I had this issue before and found that the rubber bushing around my carrier bearing was ripped to ish.
While replacing I made a boo boo and didnt mark the driveshafts - so when i pulled them apart I couldn't put them back in-phase :banghead:
Optimistic as I am, I just learned from this mistake and visually put them back together as close as possible and after reassembly there was no vibration at all so I though I lucked out!
...
Well 2 months later it came back - same exact symptom and everything

I bought the carrier bearing brand new the first time so I got warranty on it and I also got a flex disk (guibo) that I want to replace while I am at it (i saw a few hairline cracks when I was underneath the car the first time)

So my thought is that since the driveshaft is out of phase (not balanced) its possible that it tore through the bushing once again.

QUESTION:
I'm gonna have the driveshaft rebalanced, BUT do you guys think I should look at something else?

Anyone been in my shoes before?

Thank you for your time!!

Did you preload the csb during installation? If not be sure to the next time around. You should also check the u joints for play next time you have the driveshaft out. It may be in need of replacement. I wouldn't have it balanced until you confirm the above. A remanufactured driveshaft may be a worthwhile investment as they typically include the csb, will have no play in the u joints, and will be balanced.

[V12750IL]

Had the same problem on my 96. I changed the bearing, I did mark the driveshaft before taking it apart, still 6 months later the bearing was destroyed again. The guibo looked pretty new so I left it the first time. After doing some research I found if the u joints are bad it will tear up the bearing. I was told you can't change the u joints that you have to buy a new driveshaft(cheapest I could find was $1000). I found a used one in Texas for $130, installed it with my guibo and a new bearing and have had no problems since.

[M73PWR]

I would have it balanced.

One thread please...

Sorry about that - newb over here and I didnt realize I got to wait for the approval. thought maybe my computer glitched lol


Did you preload the csb during installation? If not be sure to the next time around. You should also check the u joints for play next time you have the driveshaft out. It may be in need of replacement. I wouldn't have it balanced until you confirm the above. A remanufactured driveshaft may be a worthwhile investment as they typically include the csb, will have no play in the u joints, and will be balanced.

preloading csb? i just slowly tapped it into the place of a driveshaft and bolted down the second one behind it. did i miss something?
i moved the u joint around and it was nice and snug - no play in it.


Had the same problem on my 96. I changed the bearing, I did mark the driveshaft before taking it apart, still 6 months later the bearing was destroyed again. The guibo looked pretty new so I left it the first time. After doing some research I found if the u joints are bad it will tear up the bearing. I was told you can't change the u joints that you have to buy a new driveshaft(cheapest I could find was $1000). I found a used one in Texas for $130, installed it with my guibo and a new bearing and have had no problems since.

wow $130 is a good deal considering it will cost about $150 to balance the driveshaft.

hmm im gonna double check the u joint one more time and probably gonna end up biting the bullet and having the driveshaft rebalanced because i know for sure that i put it out of phase :(

[bladerealm124]

Sorry about that - newb over here and I didnt realize I got to wait for the approval. thought maybe my computer glitched lol



preloading csb? i just slowly tapped it into the place of a driveshaft and bolted down the second one behind it. did i miss something?
i moved the u joint around and it was nice and snug - no play in it.



wow $130 is a good deal considering it will cost about $150 to balance the driveshaft.

hmm im gonna double check the u joint one more time and probably gonna end up biting the bullet and having the driveshaft rebalanced because i know for sure that i put it out of phase :(

Yes you're supposed to preload the csb towards the front of the car(about 5mm I believe) to compensate for load towards the rear on the driveshaft. I just did mine about two weeks ago and haven't had any issues since. I believe I read about another member who did the same thing(forgot to preload) and re-tore his csb after a few hundred miles. Did you use a bmw or aftermarket csb? If your guibo is worn that could also be contributing to the issue. For the price you were quoted for the rebalance I would look into a remanufactured driveshaft. I believe bimmerworld had them for only $265 after the core deposit including a new csb. And they modify them to allow replacement of the u joints. That's the route I will likely take when my u joints have more play down the road.

[M73PWR]

Yes you're supposed to preload the csb towards the front of the car(about 5mm I believe) to compensate for load towards the rear on the driveshaft. I just did mine about two weeks ago and haven't had any issues since. I believe I read about another member who did the same thing(forgot to preload) and re-tore his csb after a few hundred miles. Did you use a bmw or aftermarket csb? If your guibo is worn that could also be contributing to the issue. For the price you were quoted for the rebalance I would look into a remanufactured driveshaft. I believe bimmerworld had them for only $265 after the core deposit including a new csb. And they modify them to allow replacement of the u joints. That's the route I will likely take when my u joints have more play down the road.

hmm maybe thats where I messed up because i pushed it all the way up against forward driveshaft.. is there a write up by any chance?
And checked bimmerworld and their driveshafts are 429 after the deposit... maybe 150 for rebalanced isnt too bad lol

[bladerealm124]

hmm maybe thats where I messed up because i pushed it all the way up against forward driveshaft.. is there a write up by any chance?
And checked bimmerworld and their driveshafts are 429 after the deposit... maybe 150 for rebalanced isnt too bad lol

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "pushed it all the way up against forward driveshaft" but the csb simply be pressed slightly towards the front and tightened under tension, there are slotted holes for the bolts which allow this. You may even be able to see the bolt marks/shadows from where it was tightened originally if you look closely. These should be similar if not the same as the new preload. If not most people say to push it forward from 3-5mm. As for writeups pelican parts has one but it is not very useful. I did mine based mostly on various forum discussions. Here is one piece of a guide that someone posted in a different thread that discusses the preload:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352625&d=1355172885

Here's the thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663187

It's sound like you have a decent idea of what you're doing. Since it appears you may need another csb anyways I would attempt the preload followed by the rebalance.

As for the bimmerworld pricing it appears I misread it when I was looking previously and thought the prices shown were before the $200 core refund.

Good luck hope you get it sorted out

[M73PWR]

I'm not sure what exactly you mean by "pushed it all the way up against forward driveshaft"

I pushed the bearing all the way toward the front of the car, however looking closely i can see that when the bearing spins there is more gap (visually about <1mm) on one side than the other. slightly possible that when i pushed the bearing I did somehow managed to offset one side to another


but the csb simply be pressed slightly towards the front and tightened under tension, there are slotted holes for the bolts which allow this. You may even be able to see the bolt marks/shadows from where it was tightened originally if you look closely. These should be similar if not the same as the new preload. If not most people say to push it forward from 3-5mm. As for writeups pelican parts has one but it is not very useful. I did mine based mostly on various forum discussions. Here is one piece of a guide that someone posted in a different thread that discusses the preload:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=352625&d=1355172885

Here's the thread:
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/showthread.php?t=663187

It's sound like you have a decent idea of what you're doing. Since it appears you may need another csb anyways I would attempt the preload followed by the rebalance.

As for the bimmerworld pricing it appears I misread it when I was looking previously and thought the prices shown were before the $200 core refund.

Good luck hope you get it sorted out

Thank you for the references!

BTW I'm using URO CSB... opinions and thoughts?

[likedatyalll]

The same thing happened to me. I did EVERYTHING correctly (with the exception of balancing it) and the CB failed. However, I did by a Uro CB (never buying URO parts again). This time I went to the dealer and bought a brand new OEM CB, new guibo, and had my drive shaft balanced. They said it was off a bit. Installed and no problems.

[bladerealm124]

I pushed the bearing all the way toward the front of the car, however looking closely i can see that when the bearing spins there is more gap (visually about <1mm) on one side than the other. slightly possible that when i pushed the bearing I did somehow managed to offset one side to another



Thank you for the references!

BTW I'm using URO CSB... opinions and thoughts?

I hate to be the bearer of bad news after researching Uro products previously it appears most of what they make it garbage and that they are one of the worst manufacturers. Rated a 1 out of 5 overall on Pelican as a manufacturer if I remember correctly. I did order their aluminum waterpump pulley only because I was able to get it so cheap and I heard it's one of the only parts they make that is of any quality.

I was able to find a Lemfoerder CSB on ebay from a seller with good feedback for $42 shipped a few weeks ago. I'm still questioning whether it is an authentic Lemfoerder part after looking for Lemfoerder CSB's for e36 m3's elsewhere and not being able to even find them making that particular part. But it appears to be of decent enough quality. For $60 less than the genuine bmw part I figured I'd give it a shot. It appears that either not preloading properly, not aligning the splines, or the combination of both was able to easily damage the csb in short order. I would definitely purchase an alternate brand next time around

[bladerealm124]

The same thing happened to me. I did EVERYTHING correctly (with the exception of balancing it) and the CB failed. However, I did by a Uro CB (never buying URO parts again). This time I went to the dealer and bought a brand new OEM CB, new guibo, and had my drive shaft balanced. They said it was off a bit. Installed and no problems.

That appears the consensus regarding Uro parts. That's interesting that they said the driveshaft was off balance a bit. Did you also forget to mark the splines during separation?

[M73PWR]

The same thing happened to me. I did EVERYTHING correctly (with the exception of balancing it) and the CB failed. However, I did by a Uro CB (never buying URO parts again). This time I went to the dealer and bought a brand new OEM CB, new guibo, and had my drive shaft balanced. They said it was off a bit. Installed and no problems.

That appears the consensus regarding Uro parts. That's interesting that they said the driveshaft was off balance a bit. Did you also forget to mark the splines during separation?

So sounds pretty much identical to my issue (with exception of marking the driveshaft before seperating it)
Sounds like my URO CSB is a piece of junk :(


I hate to be the bearer of bad news after researching Uro products previously it appears most of what they make it garbage and that they are one of the worst manufacturers. Rated a 1 out of 5 overall on Pelican as a manufacturer if I remember correctly. I did order their aluminum waterpump pulley only because I was able to get it so cheap and I heard it's one of the only parts they make that is of any quality.

I was able to find a Lemfoerder CSB on ebay from a seller with good feedback for $42 shipped a few weeks ago. I'm still questioning whether it is an authentic Lemfoerder part after looking for Lemfoerder CSB's for e36 m3's elsewhere and not being able to even find them making that particular part. But it appears to be of decent enough quality. For $60 less than the genuine bmw part I figured I'd give it a shot. It appears that either not preloading properly, not aligning the splines, or the combination of both was able to easily damage the csb in short order. I would definitely purchase an alternate brand next time around

Time to look for an alternative CSB. Thank you for your great advice and I'm glad that I'm getting feedback on URO brand this early on.
at this point for me time is more than money because I have the car on jackstands waiting for the driveshaft back :(


New tactic and I would like to get some feedback on this:
Find another CSB (Lemfoerder or possibly Meyle http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-driveshaft-support-center-bearing-auto-trans-e38-uro-26121227997 ?)
Balance the driveshaft just to be sure and have the shop install the bearing since they'll probably have it apart anyways (I swear to god I will sell the car if I have to drop the driveshaft ever again D:< )
Install it and grab a cold beer.

What do you guys think?

[likedatyalll]

That appears the consensus regarding Uro parts. That's interesting that they said the driveshaft was off balance a bit. Did you also forget to mark the splines during separation?

I did mark it and lined it up when I put it back together. I think all that rattling and sometime banging on the undercarriage before I replaced the CB may have put the balance out of wack somehow.

[bladerealm124]

I did mark it and lined it up when I put it back together. I think all that rattling and sometime banging on the undercarriage before I replaced the CB may have put the balance out of wack somehow.

I'm not sure if that's possible as the driveshaft has splines that are unadjustable and cannot simply be banged out of alignment. But someone correct me if I am wrong

[bladerealm124]

So sounds pretty much identical to my issue (with exception of marking the driveshaft before seperating it)
Sounds like my URO CSB is a piece of junk :(



Time to look for an alternative CSB. Thank you for your great advice and I'm glad that I'm getting feedback on URO brand this early on.
at this point for me time is more than money because I have the car on jackstands waiting for the driveshaft back :(


New tactic and I would like to get some feedback on this:
Find another CSB (Lemfoerder or possibly Meyle http://www.fcpeuro.com/products/bmw-driveshaft-support-center-bearing-auto-trans-e38-uro-26121227997 ?)
Balance the driveshaft just to be sure and have the shop install the bearing since they'll probably have it apart anyways (I swear to god I will sell the car if I have to drop the driveshaft ever again D:< )
Install it and grab a cold beer.

What do you guys think?

That sounds like a good plan. And I hear you about dropping the driveshaft, it is a PITA, especially with jackstands(in the dirt/grass/stones in my case fml, time to build a garage). It's such a shame that such a small mistake can have great consequences. I've read so many people that have done the same thing. I even questioned my marks putting it back together because I dreaded having to drop it again but so far so good with the supposed "Lemfoerder" csb I got on ebay for $42. Only time will tell if it holds up. I believe you said your guibo was in rough shape too. I would definitely replace that while everything is out to eliminate any weak links and check the CV joint at the diff side as well.

Good luck hopefully it all works out soon. One last thing, I would browse the forums/ebay/Craigslist for a used driveshaft if you have an evening before you take the rebalance/csb plunge. I have seen a few that include the csb selling for $50-150 with some luck and timing, may save you a bit of money and you will have a spare DS on hand if the u joints fail on one. Just an idea

[M73PWR]

That sounds like a good plan. And I hear you about dropping the driveshaft, it is a PITA, especially with jackstands(in the dirt/grass/stones in my case fml, time to build a garage). It's such a shame that such a small mistake can have great consequences. I've read so many people that have done the same thing. I even questioned my marks putting it back together because I dreaded having to drop it again but so far so good with the supposed "Lemfoerder" csb I got on ebay for $42. Only time will tell if it holds up. I believe you said your guibo was in rough shape too. I would definitely replace that while everything is out to eliminate any weak links and check the CV joint at the diff side as well.

Good luck hopefully it all works out soon. One last thing, I would browse the forums/ebay/Craigslist for a used driveshaft if you have an evening before you take the rebalance/csb plunge. I have seen a few that include the csb selling for $50-150 with some luck and timing, may save you a bit of money and you will have a spare DS on hand if the u joints fail on one. Just an idea


Thanks a bunch bladerealm124! I really appreciate your advice!
I was able to locate a Meyle CSB from FCP for $53
nothing locally for DS but if I find out I will def keep it as a spare - it's a great idea.

So far the bimmer lives up to its myth of being an expensive b**ch to fix, but I got her for a steal and don't mind investing small amounts of time and tears into her.
You guys been great with advice and i'll keep you updated! :)

[bladerealm124]

Thanks a bunch bladerealm124! I really appreciate your advice!
I was able to locate a Meyle CSB from FCP for $53
nothing locally for DS but if I find out I will def keep it as a spare - it's a great idea.

So far the bimmer lives up to its myth of being an expensive b**ch to fix, but I got her for a steal and don't mind investing small amounts of time and tears into her.
You guys been great with advice and i'll keep you updated! :)

No problem always glad to help. That's a great deal, Meyle makes fantastic products. Should be much higher quality than the Uro. And these cars sure do live up to that reputation, although a huge part of the money I've poured into mine is for unnecessary mods and preventative maintenance. But even with it being a PITA sometimes I can't imagine driving anything else. Right now I need to pull my stereo/center vent soon to fix the wheel that controls the hot/cold vent, made a snapping sound one day recently and no longer works properly. And my fuse blew for my heater/ac, not sure why as I just replaced the fsu. Brake light switch also needs replacement. Lots of little things. Somehow still love getting into my car every day though...Love/hate relationship. Keep us posted, hope the problem is resolved with the new csb

[M73PWR]

No problem always glad to help. That's a great deal, Meyle makes fantastic products. Should be much higher quality than the Uro. And these cars sure do live up to that reputation, although a huge part of the money I've poured into mine is for unnecessary mods and preventative maintenance. But even with it being a PITA sometimes I can't imagine driving anything else. Right now I need to pull my stereo/center vent soon to fix the wheel that controls the hot/cold vent, made a snapping sound one day recently and no longer works properly. And my fuse blew for my heater/ac, not sure why as I just replaced the fsu. Brake light switch also needs replacement. Lots of little things. Somehow still love getting into my car every day though...Love/hate relationship. Keep us posted, hope the problem is resolved with the new csb

You sound like a true gearhead!
Everyday I get more and more respect towards euro scene and I am so glad to be out of Honda scene.
And expect update from me sometime before the end of the week :)

[psjr]

All I have to say is... never use anything rubber from URO.

[M73PWR]

All I have to say is... never use anything rubber from URO.

Def a lesson learned for me on that one :(
The not other thing I got from Üro is the expansion tank and now I am worried about reliability of that part.
Either way I don't understand why BMW used so much plastic in its cooling system ... and everywhere else lol.