Toyo T1-S or Kumho MX for street/wet track?

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I'm looking to buy a new set of tires for my e36 m3 to run on 17x7.5" wheels. Key requirements:

Cheap
Good performance on a wet track
Durable

I'd just get the S0-3s if they weren't $200 each before shipping. The MX and T1-S are each around $130 in 235/40-17, so I'm leaning toward one or the other. The question is, how do they do in the wet? Both with regard to hydroplaning and lateral grip.

Any recommendations?

[brahtw8]

I have been running T1-S on my NSX for the past year, 225/40/16 front and 265/40/17 rear.

I don't drive the car in the rain that much, but the few times I have the car felt fairly planted.

I would think the T1-S is better than the MX in the wet, but perhaps not as sticky in the dry. I haven't driven the MX or read much about them, so take that with a grain of salt.

I have about 10k total miles on the T1-S. They didn't last very long, but that is an issue with the NSX rear camber, not the tires. I am on my third set of rears and second set of fronts. The first set of T1-S were better than 50% gone when I got the car, so it is not as bad as it sounds. Further, and to be fair, the 10k includes 3 track days at Road America and Blackhawk and some autocross events.

I was going to replace them with some S0-3s, but I couldn't get the right size to fit my 16/17 setup. Same with the Pilot Sports. It is getting hard to find relatively wide, low-profile 16" tires, particularly when you are looking for wide, low-profile 17s that match.

If you want a value performance tire, I suggest also looking at the Yokohama AVS ES 100s as well. They are similar in cost to the T1-S. You may lose some ultimate dry grip, but the ES 100s have incredible tread life. Mine looked new after 27k, 2 track days at Road America and some autocross, when I sold my E36. I should have a new set of 235/40/18 ES 100s on my summer 18s for the TL in a few days.

[magnetic1]

Youre going to get a ton of opinions.... some for T1S, some for MX.

Tires are liek brake pads, every other person has an opinion on what is the best...

IMO, the T1S outperforms the MX, but then again, the MX is cheaper... :confused:

Most of the Corvette guys I know all say the T1S performs better in the wet than the MX. I used to use it for autoX/track on wet and it did great. As far as dry grip is concerned, Ive driven on both and my view is that the T1S has a slight edge over the MX.

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brahtw8: Wow, that's some really crappy life out of your T1-Ses. Thanks for the info. I'm not wild about Yokohamas after my experience running the AVS-i, which is scary in the wet on the track. I know, different models, but...

Eric: Yeah, I know there are tons of opinions on what's best, but I am looking for one main thing, which is good wet performance. I think almost everyone will agree that the S-O3 is close the best there, but it's way more expensive, and I've got a fair amount of negative camber so the extra durability might be wasted, anyway. Thanks for the data point on your experience with the T1-S vs. MX. Sounds like the T1-S has the edge all around, and it's only a few bucks more per tire. I think I was quoted $136/ea from aim.

There's the Goodyear GS-D3, too, but it's about $150 more per four tires. Probably not worth it.

[brahtw8]

brahtw8: Wow, that's some really crappy life out of your T1-Ses. Thanks for the info. I'm not wild about Yokohamas after my experience running the AVS-i, which is scary in the wet on the track. I know, different models, but...


Again, the T1-S wear problem was unique to my NSX.

I was running H&R Springs with 2" of drop and stock shocks. The car had 3.5 degrees of negative camber in the rear AFTER alignment (and not just by some random shop, but a dealer with extensive NSX experience-probably the best in the Midwest if not the Country). It looked sick, but ate through tires. The best they could do with the H&Rs was about 2.7-2.8 degrees. The outsides of my rears were fine, but the insides were at the wear bars. I doubt you run anything close to that kind of negative camber, but who knows.

I am now at 1.5 degrees of negative camber, having swapped the H&Rs for Eibachs. I expect much better life from my current set of T1-S.

I am surprised you didn't like the AVS Intermediates. Many people swear by them as a rain tire.

[JLee]

I've run T1-S for a few years now, love the tire and its grip...

I wanted to switch to Kuhmo MXs on another car I have but it didn't come in the size i needed but from the research I did the Kuhmos are a better dry track tire, the Toyos have nearly as good dry grip but much better wet

Regarding wear, my T1-Ss always seem to last forever, like 20K street miles or more, whereas I've read that the MXs have a much shorter tread life.

Jeff

[NoSoup4U]

I've never experienced T1-S's yet. So, this is from a Kumho MX user. First, the MX's are not that great in the wet. However, dry handling ability I would rate up there with SO3's. I think they hold INCREDIBLY well for the dry pavement. At the track, the MX's were okay in the wet; but, they did want to slide a lot more than I was expecting. My co-worker with the SO3's was firmly planted. However, in general, I was still impressed with the MX's. Not many people are going balls to the wall in wet weather anyway. I think the MX's are adequate/good for wet and excellent for dry.

The ES100's ... I loved them personally. I used them for like 20K miles before replacing them. This is with numerous auto-x's, HPDE's, etc. They are not as good dry. I would say average dry and average wet. Their appeal is the money. I would spend the extra money to get either the MX's or T1-S's.

I did not think Toyo's were the same price as MX's ... :)

[Swift1]

Let me throw this out. Toyo Proxes 4. They don't make a 40 series, but a 45. Maybe a little skinny. Brand new. Great dry grip, fantastic Wet. Frisby can get them for $118 and $45 to ship to VA. T1S are $140 same shipping. FYI RA1 non shaved $170ea.

[brahtw8]

Let me throw this out. Toyo Proxes 4. They don't make a 40 series, but a 45. Maybe a little skinny. Brand new. Great dry grip, fantastic Wet. Frisby can get them for $118 and $45 to ship to VA. T1S are $140 same shipping. FYI RA1 non shaved $170ea.

I got a hell of a deal on my T1-S from Frisby. $596 shipped for 2 225/40/16 and 2 265/40/17. The other places were at least $100 higher. :mad:

[DOO]

i have kumho mx and they are awesome in the dry and fairly competent in the rain.

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Let me throw this out. Toyo Proxes 4. They don't make a 40 series, but a 45. Maybe a little skinny. Brand new. Great dry grip, fantastic Wet. Frisby can get them for $118 and $45 to ship to VA. T1S are $140 same shipping. FYI RA1 non shaved $170ea.

Well, not too bad. But AIM tire will do $136 per 235-40R17 T1-S, and $155 for the RA-1 in the same size. Shipping's a little higher, but not $15/tire higher. If you run 255-40R17 RA-1s, they're only $150 each, for some reason.

Thanks for the input, folks. Looks like the new king of the hill is the PS2, but it's still out of my price range for street tires. I think I'll go with Toyos for track (RA-1) and street and see how the T1-S works out for me.

[LoPhemM3]

Where do you find the TSI for that price? What website?

[tasmisr]

Where do you find the TSI for that price? What website?

BUMB