My E38 and the problems help needed

[jeffkniseley]

well here is the story we bought a 1995 740il for $1000. it did not run due to ewe problem. i bypassed ews2 all is well it runs good and drives really nice. the car is not in great shape the po did not take car of it at all now im fixing it.

well here are the problems:

1) it dosent feel like it has much power at all rev's are slow when its in park and drive?

2) it was smoking out of the exhaust i replaced the diaphragm on the back of the intake problem gone but it still sucks air in the dip stick and oil fill cap?

3) the radio buzzes out of 2 speakers in the car the front drivers door and one in the back passengers door. i am positive i hooked it up all correct (the po hacked up almost every wire for the radio to install some cheap crappy radio. took hours of soldering and rechecking.

4) since i bought the car it drains the battery i have no clue as to why it does any ideas?

5) the blower in the car does not work never has.


for right now i think that is all well for the moment.

please dont tell me to sell the car and get a new one. my wife is in love with it and it will be just destined to the junk yard. i would like to fix the car so its like new again. just need some help if you can.


thanks in advance

[WarMachine7]

Are you throwing any codes, cel is on? Do the stomp test and find out then we will have more to work with, i have a 95 also so i might be able to help.

WAR MACHINE

[WarMachine7]

Oh and battery draining can be just a bad battery or a bad alternator, but my guess is battery.

WAR MACHINE

[WarMachine7]

Did you remove the whole pcv and replace or you just did the membrane swap, did you also check for vac leaks, did you check your maf also?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

no codes there was a lean rich mixture in bank 1 and bank 2. i have not seen it come back on since intake gaskets and the cover on the back of the intake.

i have to test the battery i took it out of my truck it is 1 year old. and alternator puts out 14.4v

- - - Updated - - -

i also noticed that there is no cat's in it at all only the resonator and mufflers. the pipes the po put in place of the cats look a little small maybe 2" but i dont think that is going to cause big problems.

[WarMachine7]

no codes there was a lean rich mixture in bank 1 and bank 2. i have not seen it come back on since intake gaskets and the cover on the back of the intake.

i have to test the battery i took it out of my truck it is 1 year old. and alternator puts out 14.4v

- - - Updated - - -

i also noticed that there is no cat's in it at all only the resonator and mufflers. the pipes the po put in place of the cats look a little small maybe 2" but i dont think that is going to cause big problems.

Well ur obd1 so not having cats wont really matter, while the vehicle is running unplug the maf, if idling gets bad then maf is good, if it stays the same maf is bad or need a good cleaning.

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

You have major air leaks. Get cracking!
Battery drain...make sure all lights in car turn off including glove box light.
Does the gear shift light in center go off after 15 minutes or so after locking up the car? If not something is keeping the car in awake status. That's not a tell all, but its a start. If not you still may have a stuck open relay. But if it has a hack job for a radio I'd bet that has something to do with it. Does it have aftermarket amp? Remote may not be switching it off.

[WarMachine7]

You have major air leaks. Get cracking!
Battery drain...make sure all lights in car turn off including glove box light.
Does the gear shift light in center go off after 15 minutes or so after locking up the car? If not something is keeping the car in awake status. That's not a tell all, but its a start. If not you still may have a stuck open relay. But if it has a hack job for a radio I'd bet that has something to do with it. Does it have aftermarket amp? Remote may not be switching it off.

Yupp all that too lol, search and find those vac leaks.

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

Forgot to add, the cells in the battery may be too old to last very long. Charging may be weak but if your lights are not dimming than alternator should be OK.

[WarMachine7]

Forgot to add, the cells in the battery may be too old to last very long. Charging may be weak but if your lights are not dimming than alternator should be OK.

+1, we got a good tagteam going on here lol

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

+1, we got a good tagteam going on here lol

WAR MACHINE

good i need that



ok i went out and unplugged the maf idle changed a little very slight miss during idle. stomp tested anyway code 1263 puge valve right? i disconnected it and for got to hook it up old code.

[WarMachine7]

good i need that

ok i went out and unplugged the maf idle changed a little very slight miss during idle. stomp tested anyway code 1263 puge valve right? i disconnected it and for got to hook it up old code.

Maf is alright, might just need a cleaning, but you have big vac leaks to find.

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

i will clean it tomorrow.

vacuume lines i have checked:

1) brake booster line
2) fpr line
3) crank case vent tube seems good
4) the line that goes to the perge valve is good

any that i am missing?

[sigtwenty]

Purge valve itself could be bad. That releases vapors from the tank to the throttle body and spans the length of the car.

Sounds like you have multiple vacuum leaks. Just do the intake manifold and replace all the lines for the hell of it. Chances are you will fix it.

[jeffkniseley]

i replace the intake gaskets all 10 of them. is there any vacuum line i did not mention? vacuum diagrams? i will change the purge valve and the line from intake to the fuel tank along with the other vacuum lines tomorrow.

[sigtwenty]

Revs slow......question does the car start slow or stumble?

[Sobek]

A vacuum leak isn't just restricted to vacuum lines - intake gaskets (which you've changed), throttle body gasket, PCV valve gasket, intake boot between MAF and throttle body could be split... there's a few things that can cause vacuum leaks quite easily. I used this method to determine that my throttle body and intake gaskets were leaking a bit;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s1fTSP8VHvA

I'm sure there's other things to check but these are the most important items. I think sig and beemer have covered the essentials though so far - start with those and go from there.

[jeffkniseley]

Revs slow......question does the car start slow or stumble?

it starts slow and has a slight exhaust popping sound on deceleration sometimes.

[Sobek]

You thinking camshaft position sensor sig? That could cause it to be down on power, backfire etc etc

[WarMachine7]

Can the popping be from a loose ex manifold or a harsh exhaust leak? What you guys think sig and sobek.

WAR MACHINE

[WarMachine7]

Funny thing jeff, im bout to this job you just did but minus the vac hoses (damn) i dont know which hoses but the two that i def know to change lol

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Can the popping be from a loose ex manifold or a harsh exhaust leak? What you guys think sig and sobek.

WAR MACHINE

that is what i think the popping is comming from a leak in the exhaust. a resonator cant get plugged can it? the po removed the cats and has 2 smaller pipes welded in place of them.

- - - Updated - - -


Funny thing jeff, im bout to this job you just did but minus the vac hoses (damn) i dont know which hoses but the two that i def know to change lol

WAR MACHINE
ha please rephrase. what job the intake gaskets and the osv thing on the back of the intake?

[WarMachine7]

that is what i think the popping is comming from a leak in the exhaust. a resonator cant get plugged can it? the po removed the cats and has 2 smaller pipes welded in place of them.

- - - Updated - - -

ha please rephrase. what job the intake gaskets and the osv thing on the back of the intake?

The intake gaskets involves removing the whole manifold to replace them

WAR MACHINE

[WarMachine7]

that is what i think the popping is comming from a leak in the exhaust. a resonator cant get plugged can it? the po removed the cats and has 2 smaller pipes welded in place of them.

- - - Updated - - -

ha please rephrase. what job the intake gaskets and the osv thing on the back of the intake?

Those pipes that are in place of the cats arent 2.5" diameter?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

The intake gaskets involves removing the whole manifold to replace them

WAR MACHINE

yes i know did it yesterday there is 8 oval orange gaskets well 4 because 2 are attached together.

[Mayorchuck]

Battery drain:

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e38/E38_Battery_Drain.htm

Blower motor- If the fuse is good and IF the PO did not hack the wiring to it, either the blower motor or resistor is probably bad.

Unplug the MAF while the car is not running. Start and take it for a test drive. Any difference?

Have you checked the plugs? Notice any oil in the plug ports while you were working on it? Plug conditions can give you an idea if they are firing properly, running rich, etc.

You REALLY need the proper battery in this car.

[WarMachine7]

yes i know did it yesterday there is 8 oval orange gaskets well 4 because 2 are attached together.

Oh then your golden with that, can you tell me where and how many vac hoses do we have?

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

it starts slow and has a slight exhaust popping sound on deceleration sometimes.

Exhaust popping is a air leak. Recheck the osv tube. You may have damaged it or something isn't seated right. Also check injector orings for kinks during reinstallation. Maybe the manifold gaskets aren't seated right.

As for slow starting if it doesn't improve with the leak fixed check camshaft sensor and throttle position sensor.

When hitting the throttle vary the speeds and see if the rpms seem to match what you are doing. If you go 20% throttle and its not instant the sensor may not be reading right.

Also did you change the large oring between the two throttle bodys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJkzZj4VYU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think this video was the one that showed a delay between gas pedal and actual movement if its not sorry

[jeffkniseley]

Those pipes that are in place of the cats arent 2.5" diameter?

WAR MACHINE

I god no there 2" maybe

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[jeffkniseley]

Oh then your golden with that, can you tell me where and how many vac hoses do we have?

WAR MACHINE

I only saw 3 vac lined and the osv tube

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[jeffkniseley]

Exhaust popping is a air leak. Recheck the osv tube. You may have damaged it or something isn't seated right. Also check injector orings for kinks during reinstallation. Maybe the manifold gaskets aren't seated right.

As for slow starting if it doesn't improve with the leak fixed check camshaft sensor and throttle position sensor.

When hitting the throttle vary the speeds and see if the rpms seem to match what you are doing. If you go 20% throttle and its not instant the sensor may not be reading right.

Also did you change the large oring between the two throttle bodys.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHJkzZj4VYU&feature=youtube_gdata_player

I think this video was the one that showed a delay between gas pedal and actual movement if its not sorry

I did not know about an o-ring between the throttle bodies I never took the 2 apart.

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[sigtwenty]

I did not know about an o-ring between the throttle bodies I never took the 2 apart.

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Did you replace the orings in the osv tube?
Is it possible you mangled it a bit during reinstallation?

[WarMachine7]

Did you replace the orings in the osv tube?
Is it possible you mangled it a bit during reinstallation?

Your telling me the pcv doesnt come with o-rings?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Did you replace the orings in the osv tube?
Is it possible you mangled it a bit during reinstallation?

I replaced I the one by the timing chain cover and the osv came with one.

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[sigtwenty]

I replaced I the one by the timing chain cover and the osv came with one.

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Did you bang it up during installation at all. Is it possible its not in 100% somewhere.

Unfortunately you must retrace all of your steps and all of your work. Not trying to be a harda$$ but it appears that you possibly messed up somewhere. I know I had the damndest time getting my intake back in. Second time I did it on someone else's car it took 5 minutes....live and learn.
As for vacuum lines any black hose that's not a coolant hose or a fuel hose is a vacuum line. To temporarily figure out which one is bad rewrap it in black tape

[jeffkniseley]

Did you bang it up during installation at all. Is it possible its not in 100% somewhere.

Unfortunately you must retrace all of your steps and all of your work. Not trying to be a harda$$ but it appears that you possibly messed up somewhere. I know I had the damndest time getting my intake back in. Second time I did it on someone else's car it took 5 minutes....live and learn.

No never possible! I don't make mistakes!!!
Well ok I do make mistakes. I will recheck my work I could have screwed up. I'm going to find a smoke machine tomarrow. Or make one.

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[ebida3]

It would seem that possibly a valve guide seal has failed or maybe more than one. If this is the case, oil would be sucked into the combustion chamber burning and smoking out the back. more importantly is that if the seal(s) are bad, then vacuum would be noticable in the upper engine and you feel it in the oil cap. I would venture to say that she smokes really bad after sitting as in first morning start-ups.

- - - Updated - - -

It would seem that possibly a valve guide seal has failed or maybe more than one. If this is the case, oil would be sucked into the combustion chamber burning and smoking out the back. more importantly is that if the seal(s) are bad, then vacuum would be noticable in the upper engine and you feel it in the oil cap. I would venture to say that she smokes really bad after sitting as in first morning start-ups.

[jeffkniseley]

It would seem that possibly a valve guide seal has failed or maybe more than one. If this is the case, oil would be sucked into the combustion chamber burning and smoking out the back. more importantly is that if the seal(s) are bad, then vacuum would be noticable in the upper engine and you feel it in the oil cap. I would venture to say that she smokes really bad after sitting as in first morning start-ups.

- - - Updated - - -

It would seem that possibly a valve guide seal has failed or maybe more than one. If this is the case, oil would be sucked into the combustion chamber burning and smoking out the back. more importantly is that if the seal(s) are bad, then vacuum would be noticable in the upper engine and you feel it in the oil cap. I would venture to say that she smokes really bad after sitting as in first morning start-ups.

It doesn't smoke.

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[sigtwenty]

Smoke machine only when engine is cold. Warmed up won't help much.

Someone I know had the same exact thing with the popping. It was the osvtube itself.

[jeffkniseley]

Smoke machine only when engine is cold. Warmed up won't help much.

Someone I know had the same exact thing with the popping. It was the osvtube itself.

Thanks for the info I didn't know your supposed to do it cold. Better to blow the smoke through the brake booster line or the intake?

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[sigtwenty]

Thanks for the info I didn't know your supposed to do it cold. Better to blow the smoke through the brake booster line or the intake?

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Pump it thru the throttle body or intake iirc.

Reason for cold is the gaskets that might be leaking are shrunken and expand when hot and makes the problems less noticed.

[jeffkniseley]

I will post back tomorrow with an update thank you.

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[jeffkniseley]

Ok I smoke tested it this morning and there is no vacuum leaks that I can see hear anything

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[WarMachine7]

Ok I smoke tested it this morning and there is no vacuum leaks that I can see hear anything

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At least you got that out of the way, shall we check out fuel delivery now?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

At least you got that out of the way, shall we check out fuel delivery now?

WAR MACHINE

How can I go upon that? There is no place to test fuel pressure.

I am hearing a very slight miss also this ironing I took a video and will post it later.

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[sigtwenty]

Still getting the popping noise on decel? Only other option is exhaust manifold leak.

[jeffkniseley]

Still getting the popping noise on decel? Only other option is exhaust manifold leak.

Yes but is not a lot just sometimes. It has a slight miss to it not real bad at all but it's there.

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[jeffkniseley]

http://youtu.be/k0HovGsD4Ds

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[jeffkniseley]

http://youtu.be/Io9LxHLGPYY

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[WarMachine7]

http://youtu.be/k0HovGsD4Ds (http://youtu.be/k0HovGsD4Ds)

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Yea i think something is wrong with you pcv.

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Yea i think something is wrong with you pcv.

WAR MACHINE

What else is there to the PVC? I replaced the peice on the back of the intake. It's not sucking like it was. Before I replaced it it was hard to get the dip stick out.

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[WarMachine7]

It can be an o-ring wasnt set right, it it could just be that its not snugged and completely in, i havr a question though, when you brought this pcv did you buy oem?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

It can be an o-ring wasnt set right, it it could just be that its not snugged and completely in, i havr a question though, when you brought this pcv did you buy oem?

WAR MACHINE

Yes I did costed me $65 from the dealer. Why didnt it show in a smoke test

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[sigtwenty]

The tube internal may not be set right.

Have you pulled the plugs at all since messing with all this?

See if there's anything odd about them.

I can't hear anything overall odd in the video (poor speaker on phone may be why) other than a lifter tick which could be from poor quality, worn out and or low oil level.

I'm not sure if dipstick being tight is a problem. That might be normal.

[WarMachine7]

Yea its one of those things where ya just cant put your finger on, but i really think it wasnt installed properly,everything else pans out, you shouldnt havr any type of sucking from the dipstick tube if the pcv was installed properly, just retrace your steps, it wouldnt hurt.

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

The tube internal may not be set right.

Have you pulled the plugs at all since messing with all this?

See if there's anything odd about them.

I can't hear anything overall odd in the video (poor speaker on phone may be why) other than a lifter tick which could be from poor quality, worn out and or low oil level.

I'm not sure if dipstick being tight is a problem. That might be normal.

Tube internal? The intake does not have one inside it it's the m60 motor.

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[jeffkniseley]

The exhaust pipes in place of the cat are 2"od and 22" long

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[sigtwenty]

Aren't these pipes 2.5?
Internal intake tube is one from the osv covers the entire rear and snakes down to a small area that's connected to the intake at the front. A vacuum line connects from the bottom passenger side of the intake that goes into that tube of the intake.

[WarMachine7]

Aren't these pipes 2.5?

Yes they are, that can be causing the exhaust problem, actually wouldnt that cause flow problems also, considering these cars are tuned to a very specific spec?

WAR MACHINE

[kimokk]

The pipes are actually 55 mm which is a little less than 2 1/4 inches and a little more than 2 1/8 inches. DAMHIK.

[WarMachine7]

The pipes are actually 55 mm which is a little less than 2 1/4 inches and a little more than 2 1/8 inches. DAMHIK.

Ok, you lost me now lol

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

Its possible that its a restriction. But then again no cats right? So probably balances out.

Did the car do these things before the work you did? If so what got better, what stayed the same? What's new since?

[jeffkniseley]

Its possible that its a restriction. But then again no cats right? So probably balances out.

Did the car do these things before the work you did? If so what got better, what stayed the same? What's new since?

The car did a lot more from when I got it. It did not run got it running but very poorly. It did not shift due to the tps plugs not being on the correct tps. I had vacuum leaks all over. It just ran like crap. I fixed vacuum leaks replaced gaskets and hoses. Smoke test today checked to make sure the osv was on correct. And Che Jed for vacuum leaks again. Still nothing.

There is no tube inside the intake. The m60 I don't think has that only the m62. From what I'm reading.

You think it would be worth my time to put a bigger pipe in place of the small one? I can put my index finger and thumb around the pipe and the finger tips touch.

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[sigtwenty]

Did I already ask if fuel filter has been changed ?

My car sputtered when filter was clogged.
Is the filler hose from pipe to tank OK. Any holes in it ?

Have you checked for any exhaust leaks. If someone put crappy sizes in maybe they did crappy work.

[WarMachine7]

Did I already ask if fuel filter has been changed ?

My car sputtered when filter was clogged.
Is the filler hose from pipe to tank OK. Any holes in it ?

Have you checked for any exhaust leaks. If someone put crappy sizes in maybe they did crappy work.

Yea, u should run seafoam and then with all the smoke youll see leaks, thats just a crazy idea of mines lol, but how about fuel injectors?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Did I already ask if fuel filter has been changed ?

My car sputtered when filter was clogged.
Is the filler hose from pipe to tank OK. Any holes in it ?

Have you checked for any exhaust leaks. If someone put crappy sizes in maybe they did crappy work.

I did change fuel filter it was dirty when I got it change again? I drive the car 600 miles since.

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[WarMachine7]

Umm are you using the right gas?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Umm are you using the right gas?

WAR MACHINE

91 no ethanol

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[WarMachine7]

I did change fuel filter it was dirty when I got it change again? I drive the car 600 miles since.

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Maybe the crud got lodged into the injectors and clogged them?

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

Is there a nipple that has suction on the back of the osv, near the top, closer to drivers side of the osv cover. If you put your finger over it you will feel it.

Cap it off.

[WarMachine7]

Question guys, what torx bit i have to use to remove the bits on the pcv?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Question guys, what torx bit i have to use to remove the bits on the pcv?

WAR MACHINE

T30

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[jeffkniseley]

Is there a nipple that has suction on the back of the osv, near the top, closer to drivers side of the osv cover. If you put your finger over it you will feel it.

Cap it off.

I capped that off already

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[jeffkniseley]

Maybe the crud got lodged into the injectors and clogged them?

WAR MACHINE

Hmm how can I clean injectors?

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[WarMachine7]

Hmm how can I clean injectors?

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You would have to bring it to a shop that does it using sonic something lol

WAR MACHINE

[Sobek]

Is there a nipple that has suction on the back of the osv, near the top, closer to drivers side of the osv cover. If you put your finger over it you will feel it.

Cap it off.

There shouldn't be any need to cap it on an M60 - you're probably referring to the one that leads to the fuel pressure regulator (as that's on the fuel rail with his car). If that hose is broken or missing altogether, then that's a big issue right there. Assuming we're talking about the same hose - I get confused sometimes between the Euro / American LHD and RHD differences hahaha

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e32/PCV/PCV-3.jpg

Should be a little s-bend hose like that there...

[kimokk]

Or techron for a couple tank fulls

[WarMachine7]

There shouldn't be any need to cap it on an M60 - you're probably referring to the one that leads to the fuel pressure regulator (as that's on the fuel rail with his car). If that hose is broken or missing altogether, then that's a big issue right there. Assuming we're talking about the same hose - I get confused sometimes between the Euro / American LHD and RHD differences hahaha

Should be a little s-bend hose like that there...

Your correct, i have that bent hose also.

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

There shouldn't be any need to cap it on an M60 - you're probably referring to the one that leads to the fuel pressure regulator (as that's on the fuel rail with his car). If that hose is broken or missing altogether, then that's a big issue right there. Assuming we're talking about the same hose - I get confused sometimes between the Euro / American LHD and RHD differences hahaha

http://www.meeknet.co.uk/e32/PCV/PCV-3.jpg

Should be a little s-bend hose like that there...

Nope. I said towards drivers side of osv not passenger side.

[WarMachine7]

Nope. I said towards drivers side of osv not passenger side.

That hose at the driver side is the one that goes to the brake booster.

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

That hose at the driver side is the one that goes to the brake booster.

WAR MACHINE

no no it is a little one he is talking about drivers side top looks just like the fpr one but it needs to be capped unless you have antilock brakes.

[WarMachine7]

no no it is a little one he is talking about drivers side top looks just like the fpr one but it needs to be capped unless you have antilock brakes.

Oh ok, but dont all e38 have abs?

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

No sir mine does not

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[WarMachine7]

No sir mine does not

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I took a look at mines and it is capped also, i thought if cars have abs it has anti lock brakes, go figure.

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

no no it is a little one he is talking about drivers side top looks just like the fpr one but it needs to be capped unless you have antilock brakes.

I have abs. Mines capped.


Oh ok, but dont all e38 have abs?

WAR MACHINE

Yes.


No sir mine does not

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Sure about that. Even e32 had abs


I took a look at mines and it is capped also, i thought if cars have abs it has anti lock brakes, go figure.

WAR MACHINE
Abs is antilock braking system.

[WarMachine7]

So then having abs and having that port capped has nothing to do with abs then?

WAR MACHINE

[sigtwenty]

So then having abs and having that port capped has nothing to do with abs then?

WAR MACHINE

Abs is an electronic sensor solenoid based system only operating under specific conditions. Only part of the brake system using vacuum is the booster which has a much larger dedicated line from the rear of the intake already.

[WarMachine7]

Abs is an electronic sensor solenoid based system only operating under specific conditions. Only part of the brake system using vacuum is the booster which has a much larger dedicated line from the rear of the intake already.

Oh ok, thanks

WAR MACHINE

[jeffkniseley]

Wow I can't believe I didn't see the big abs unit on the passenger side. I saw a little pump on a 98 740il. It was by the brake fluid resivor. What is that?

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[jeffkniseley]

Wanted to bump for any more help


The problems are:
it seems a little low on power not much

A slightly Rough idle sometimes it is intermittent

No check engine light

No codes

Sometimes it has to crank for 3-4 seconds to start and when it does it revs up slow to get to
idle

What i have done:

Replaced intake gaskets all of them

The osv plate on the back of the intake was also replaced

New spark plugs

New coil insulators( from coil to spark plug)

Replaced all vacuum lines on motor

Cleaned the maf

New air filter

I replaced the fuel filter 1000 miles ago it was from 1997

Smoke tested the motor

New battery

Checked for injector leaks ( carb cleaner)

Im lost to what is going on and cant figure it out.

Please help i have to leave for work in a week and would like to know my wife's car is going to be ok. I cant drive 600 miles to fix it if it breaks down.

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[Sobek]

Your little list there mirrors my car very closely - I've replaced and checked all those same items too. When you say it's slow to get up to idle, do you mean you fire it up and it hovers at a very low rpm (like, almost bottoming out basically) then kind of 'gets over it' and climbs up to normal rpm? Because mine's done this for an eternity and I've yet to work out what it is. I'm thinking maybe fuel pressure regulator, but for me in Australia, it's a lot of money to invest in a 'maybe, maybe not' item.

[jeffkniseley]

Your little list there mirrors my car very closely - I've replaced and checked all those same items too. When you say it's slow to get up to idle, do you mean you fire it up and it hovers at a very low rpm (like, almost bottoming out basically) then kind of 'gets over it' and climbs up to normal rpm? Because mine's done this for an eternity and I've yet to work out what it is. I'm thinking maybe fuel pressure regulator, but for me in Australia, it's a lot of money to invest in a 'maybe, maybe not' item.

Yes that is what it is doing

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[xboss]

Jeff, what do you mean by no codes, have you run a real diagnostic on the car with shop/dealer level equipment and checked the performance levels of stuff?

[jeffkniseley]

I used a snap on diagnostic computer from a shop

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[Sobek]

Jeff, if you get a moment, take a look at these two videos I recorded and tell me if this matches what your car is doing. I just want to find out if we're onto the same issue here... The first video was one of the roughest starts it ever gave me, but you'll need to turn the audio WAY up to hear how it sounds, it was a quiet recording;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TTzZhN37JGM

And this is one recorded of the engine bay more recently - it wasn't really all that rough, but you can still hear how it fires up, chugs, then sort of 'builds up' to idle rpm;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZK5zceblB4g

So what do you think, same thing as yours? I've done almost the exact same list of maintenance items as you have now, and this problem still persists.

[jeffkniseley]

It doesnt take that long to get to idle.

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[Sobek]

In the first video it took AGES, as I mentioned that was the worst it ever got, but the second video from more recently only took a couple of seconds - are you saying yours reaches a stable idle even sooner than that? I'm still wondering if this could be due to the fuel pressure regulator or something, I don't know a way to accurately test that part though short of just replacing it. Does yours still have to crank for a bit before firing up? I don't know what everyone else thinks but it all seems like fuel starvation to me...

I'm basically out of ideas as to what else to suggest you look at!

[jeffkniseley]

It could be a failing fuel pump. But today i unplugged the cam sensor while it was running and nothing happened. Could the osv valve in the timing chain cover cause this?

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[Sobek]

I wouldn't think a failing OSV would cause a rough start though. Maybe some noise but it shouldn't keep the engine from turning over and running straight away. Can't really comment on the camshaft sensor, haven't been daring enough to unplug mine while the car is running - it would be good if you could have some live INPA diagnostics going when you did that though, to see if it drastically affects some of the readings it's producing. As for the fuel pump, well, definitely a possibility... I've yet to check my fuel pressure but I'm tracking down a pressure tester at the moment.

[jeffkniseley]

Im almost thinking that it could. Here is my resoning. The osv in the timing chain cover is under vacuum right? Could it be leaking vacuum in the crank case

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[Sobek]

That could actually be a possibility. In fact I was chatting until the late hours last night with a friend who's been sort of following my efforts to fix this same issue all along, and we got on to discussing the potential areas of vacuum leaks overnight. He doesn't know these cars too well but he thought what if things like the butterfly valves that control the vent airflow were vacuum operated and leaking overnight, or the OSV in the timing case. Hell of a job to try and replace or diagnose though...

I had a little play with my fuel pressure regulator this morning too. Unplugging the vacuum hose made no change to my engine at all. I unplugged it from the PCV valve (leaving it attached to the regulator) and it made periodic little 'sips' of air, but otherwise the idle stayed the same. I was under the impression that the idle should have jumped up, or at least changed to SOME degree. I'm going to play with the regulator further to see if it makes any different to the cold start (the regulator could be either draining fuel or leaking vacuum ever so slightly, who knows).

[jeffkniseley]

Well now my car is cranking and not starting i have to crank it 3-4 seconds then stop try another 3-4 seconds stop then another 3-4 seconds and it will start firing finally.

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[Hueristic]

Well now my car is cranking and not starting i have to crank it 3-4 seconds then stop try another 3-4 seconds stop then another 3-4 seconds and it will start firing finally.

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This is what a bad fuel pump will do before it fails. Check to see if you can hear the fuel pump turn on under the pass side back seat when the car starts cranking. The back seat is easy to remove, just pull it up.

[jeffkniseley]

I will check it. I also want to add it does not do it all the time

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[Hueristic]

I will check it. I also want to add it does not do it all the time

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Yeah mine did it for 6 months before stranding me. :D

[jeffkniseley]

Yeah mine did it for 6 months before stranding me. :D

It is on my order list! Wife can not get stranded or i will get hung!

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[jeffkniseley]

Fuel pump and cam sensor changed but did not help. Any other ideas?

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[jeffkniseley]

Bump

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[mgoods50]

Just found this thread- nvmd my rec to tow other post-....


Anyway, a couple of things have jumped out at me. Popping exhaust on decel for one...

If this car has been subjected to rich fuel mixtures- it would have eventually ruined the O2's, and obviously, the cats. Hence potentially the cat removal.

Why would it run rich? IDK, but I can also tell you that I KNOW firsthand the DME will NOT shut off fuel to a non-firing cylinder, I DONT care what the books say. So, if you've had / have a bad coil, you've also got fuel dumping continually into that cylinder (potentially) that is being burned off somewhere in the red-hot exhaust.

Also- on the rear manifold cover. True, on the M60, there is no tube that runs inside the intake. However, as you know, there is one on the outside that is a bear to clip on / off without losing that metal clip. It also has an O-ring in there.

Techron is great, but I keep ventil sauber on hand. You can get it from bavauto by the case. I generally alternate ventil sauber/ jectron every other tank. I run one tank with additive, one fuel-only, then use the other additive. This practice has revived at least one set of injectors for me.

You may very well have a poorly performing injector. You should probably just order a set of balanced / rebuilt ones due to their age and start fresh. This is what I plan to do soon with my own E38, which I have neglected lately due to time constraints. Here's a link I've saved for myself: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270782348163?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Now that I think about it- ensure that is the correct injector because those may be the ones I was eyeing for my M3 upgrade!!!! BEWARE :)

I'll keep my thinking cap on for you!

[jeffkniseley]

Just found this thread- nvmd my rec to tow other post-....

Anyway, a couple of things have jumped out at me. Popping exhaust on decel for one...

If this car has been subjected to rich fuel mixtures- it would have eventually ruined the O2's, and obviously, the cats. Hence potentially the cat removal.

Why would it run rich? IDK, but I can also tell you that I KNOW firsthand the DME will NOT shut off fuel to a non-firing cylinder, I DONT care what the books say. So, if you've had / have a bad coil, you've also got fuel dumping continually into that cylinder (potentially) that is being burned off somewhere in the red-hot exhaust.

Also- on the rear manifold cover. True, on the M60, there is no tube that runs inside the intake. However, as you know, there is one on the outside that is a bear to clip on / off without losing that metal clip. It also has an O-ring in there.

Techron is great, but I keep ventil sauber on hand. You can get it from bavauto by the case. I generally alternate ventil sauber/ jectron every other tank. I run one tank with additive, one fuel-only, then use the other additive. This practice has revived at least one set of injectors for me.

You may very well have a poorly performing injector. You should probably just order a set of balanced / rebuilt ones due to their age and start fresh. This is what I plan to do soon with my own E38, which I have neglected lately due to time constraints. Here's a link I've saved for myself: http://www.ebay.com/itm/270782348163?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Now that I think about it- ensure that is the correct injector because those may be the ones I was eyeing for my M3 upgrade!!!! BEWARE :)

I'll keep my thinking cap on for you!

Thanks and those injectors are for an m3, i have vac motor sport injectors i may het rid of due to needing bigger ones.

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