How many M Sports are there Really?

[WestSeattle]

Me and my family have parted 6.
I know of a guy in CA who has parted 10

Two for sale in WA
One in OR
Three in CA
One in CO
One in AZ
Two in IL
One in FL
One in TX
One in NC
One in NY
Two in KS

Thats right now on Craigslist.

For a 200 build car. hmmmm. Does anyone have real BMW production numbers or does everyone go off what that Kindell website built ten years ago says?

[NikosX]

There are tons here on the board. Everyone with a 540 and M bumpers qualifies!

[BoldUlysses]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_E34#540i_M-sport_.28North_America.29


204 "Sport" models were built, 139 of them with a 6-speed manual.

Also:

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1943233


Are you asking how many are there left? If so, the answer is going to be much harder (impossible?) to come by.

[e34Croak]

Guaranteed more than 204.

[T444E]

The real question is: who cares?

[zubbie]

The real question is: who cares?

Oh Forest...

[BoldUlysses]

Guaranteed more than 204.

What makes you say that? The frequency with which they pop up for sale? As a point of comparison, concrete records exist that Audi only imported 169 examples of the 1991 200 20V Avant (wagon), and you can find them on a nationwide CList search all day every day.


The real question is: who cares?

^ This is true.

[kalevera]

No one wants them, that's why they're for sale (or being parted) and why they sold 200 of them to begin with...

Want a V8 and a 6 speed? Get an E39, the chassis was actually designed to work with the motor

[thatonedood]

The real question is: who cares?

This. Unless you're trying to sell one, or more to the point, trying to sell the rare=valuable fallacy.

[e34Croak]

Someone with an m sport give me their vin please? Last 7 digits.

[thatonedood]

Gixxer has his in his sig...

[Steve547i]

According to the wikipedia page i just edited, there were 200 million m-sports

[e34Croak]

Gixxer has his in his sig...
Gracias. Going to need a couple more. I'll tell you exactly how many there are.

[bubba966]

someone with an m sport give me their vin please? Last 7 digits.

gf34446

[Steve547i]

Can we just have an m-sport thread where everyone links the CL ad's?

[NikosX]

Can we just have an m-sport thread where everyone links the CL ad's?

Better yet, lets proposition Kevlar to make an M-Sport sub form so y'all can diddle one another in privacy?

[e34Croak]

Any other prefixes besides GA and GF?

I'll compile a list of every single one ever for y'all then we sticky the damn thing!

[bubba966]

Any other prefixes besides GA and GF?

Don't believe so. All of the VIN's I've seen have been GA for the manuals & GF for the autos. But the build lists of all of the 540's has been gone through and there were 204 total built.

What's it matter though?

Yes, it's not hard to find one for sale. Doesn't mean there's tons of them out there.

They're too rare to be properly known by your average person. And not rare enough yet to be worth a lot based on being rare. So the value of them isn't that high.

They're looked down on by all BMW fans that have never owned one in good condition. Those that have owned one in proper working condition usually say it's their favorite BMW they've ever owned. I've only DD 3 BMW's so far ('93 M5, '95 540 M-Sport, '95 525iT) and the M-Sport is my favorite.

It'd be nice if they were more common. It'd make certain things for them cheaper and easier to find.

Personally I never bought one due to the rarity. I bought one due to it being built how I'd want an E34 built after having driven a '93 M5 for a while.


I think a better question would be how many are left that are still true M-Sport's (EDC intact and functioning)? Most of the M-Sport's around here are no longer M-Sport's... :(

[slippyM395]

I see another conspiracy theory on our hands, you seem angry at the fact that there were only 204 made. Why do you care so much?

[Cosmos///95Lux]

GF34410

Working EDC


http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1943233

[skylinergtr]

OP.

any of the ones you and your friends parted canadian spec?

those are out of 32.. and more rare.

[B10 BITURBO]

OP.

any of the ones you and your friends parted canadian spec?

those are out of 32.. and more rare.

I agree,, these are the ONLY true 540///M

[shaytanabyad]

GA65565. Love the car.

[NikosX]

I agree,, these are the ONLY true 540///M

Lol. M sports. Now "real" M sports. The cars were a marketing ploy! How do so few realize that?

[ross1]

I suspect the turnover could be attributed to the cost to repair them, specifically the EDC. Most don't place a high enough value to warrant the repairs so for sale or parts they go.

[bigsixe34]

Lol. M sports. Now "real" M sports. The cars were a marketing ploy! How do so few realize that?

Agreed, Nik. I don't know about the marketing ploy, but guys, at the end of the day these are just manual 540s. . .
Get an m5 if you want an e34 M

[B10 BITURBO]

Lol. M sports. Now "real" M sports. The cars were a marketing ploy! How do so few realize that?

NikosX,, before you go further ,, why not have a look ,, at the story behind these cars,,

These cars are a part of the M-group.. even if you like it or not ..
the chassis is the same with a lot more beefier upgrade

The suspension of the M540i is identical to the standard "Nurburgring" chassis of the European-spec E34 M5. It therefore incorporates the following modifications over the normal 540i setup:
-Adaptive M Suspension, an M-tuned version of Electronic Damping Control (EDC) that electronically chooses the optimum shock rates based on sensors that gather road speed, steering input, acceleration/deceleration loads and lateral body movements
-20mm reduction in ride height
-25 percent firmer spring rates
-Self-leveling rear shocks
-Thicker antiroll bars front and rear
-Adjustable rear toe-in

NO USA M5 have this setup,,


Like all E34 M5s built from May 1994, the M540i is shod with 245/45ZR18 tires on M Parallel Spoke alloy wheels (http://www.bmwmregistry.com/faq/E34-M5_M_Prll_Spoke_Wheel.jpg), sized 8x18-inch (front) and 9x18-inch (rear]

Was the US M5 model offered with that wheel option,, no i guess not

The M540i's braking system is the same as that of all E34 M5s built as of May 1994, its four-wheel vented discs measuring 13.6-inches (front) and 12.8-inches (rear) in diameter. In addition, the front rotors incorporate two-piece “floating” calipers (http://www.bmwmregistry.com/faq/Floating_Hub_Brake.jpg). This is the only factory BMW application of these rotors ever offered in North America.

THE BIGGEST BRAKES OFFERED in N-A,, in an E34 as oem

but not in a S38B36 M5.:shifty


So instead of saying this car is a crap.. respect it because it is A HELL OF A MORE CAR than any S38B36 ever offered in North -America,,maby flat-out the S38B36 will outrun it,, but so what

only made in 32 examples,, but have a V8,, and WBA number instead of WBS

Be aware,, we are talking about the Canadian M540

[Layne]

Factory racing is a marketing ploy, along with all M cars and the entirity of BMW Motorsport GmbH. The M cars help sell the regular cars. I agree that badge engineered versions don't earn the same respect as real ones, but BMW is going to do whatever makes money (look at some of the stupid crap in their current lineup).

[Justin6745]

OP.

any of the ones you and your friends parted canadian spec?

those are out of 32.. and more rare.

Number 5 of 32 is being parted.
Number 1 is in my neighbourhood.
Number 11 is for sale.
Number 32 is rotting at a greasy dealership.
Should compare to the M registry to figure out how many are MIA

Realistically, as said above, the M540i is essentially a later model M5 minus the S38. Still an M car on paper whether a VIN letter dictates or not. Just the way I see it.

[ross1]

So what then defines an ///M car?
The M sports have EDC as the ///M, correct??
If all else is equal but the M sport has the V-8 then what's the issue? Not an "S" motor? Still has more torque even in standard M60 form as applied to pedestrian E34s.
This whole notion of ///M cars being so special amuses me to no end.

[NikosX]

So what then defines an ///M car?
The M sports have EDC as the ///M, correct??
If all else is equal but the M sport has the V-8 then what's the issue? Not an "S" motor? Still has more torque even in standard M60 form as applied to pedestrian E34s.
This whole notion of ///M cars being so special amuses me to no end.

Some people will never get it. Thats ok. This country supports mediocrity, and I wouldnt expect the taste of the masses to differ! ;)

[Justin6745]

None of us are saying that M5's aren't special, but you're denying the M540i the same treatment. Still made in the same factory as the dudes that made your M's

[zubbie]

Selling cars is a marketing ploy. A models degree of reverence is determined by public opinion only. Lots of limited edition models are neither popular nor desirable. Conversely other mass produced models are extremely collectable.

Where does the M-Sport fall? wherever the market puts it. It's an E34. We should cheirsh all of them here shouldn't we? (even the lowly Bronzit, olympic edition, M20 slushbox)

[Layne]

Still made in the same factory as the dudes that made your M's

Actually no. That's partially the source of the tension. But E24 M's weren't built in Garching either and no one can deny that they are real M cars.


Lots of limited edition models are neither popular nor desirable.

What was the limited edition multi colored thing on Top Gear one time?


Looks like this, but from the factory.

http://ridesandstyling.com/database/images/2011/06/vw-golf-tdi-mk3-multicolor-ronal-turbo.jpg

[Justin6745]

Actually no. That's partially the source of the tension. But E24 M's weren't built in Garching either and no one can deny that they are real M cars.

Wait, in pretty sure the M540i's are assembled in Garching, but if you're talking about the M sports then yes you are correct.

[bigsixe34]

Harlequin Edition! I actually thought that they were all created after the fact by piecing together different Golfs. Kinda cool actually that you could order that factory...

[BoldUlysses]

This was built at the factory:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/Volvo_262_Coupe_Bertone.jpg/800px-Volvo_262_Coupe_Bertone.jpg

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/09/262-3.jpg

Special edition 262C Bertone.

*shudder*



The point is no matter what people say, to the purists, if there's no "S" in the VIN, it's not an M-car. Period.

However, the application of that "S" is totally up to BMW's discretion, so as Layne and zubbie pointed out, it's entirely a marketing ploy. And for my money, those who build on an arbitrary factory decision to create a kind of elitist enclave within the enthusiast community reveal more about themselves than about the cars they reverence.

That's human nature, though. :dunno

[B10 BITURBO]

The point is no matter what people say, to the purists, if there's no "S" in the VIN, it's not an M-car. Period.


:bigun2

Total BS,,,,,,,,,,,This is not Correct either,, some E28 M5 do not have the S,,

Starting with the E28 M5, all products from BMW Motorsport GmbH were assigned a "WBS" VIN prefix to distinguish them from the non-M BMW AG vehicles, which retained a "WBA" prefix. However, the first 26 left-hand drive ECE examples of the E28 M5 were produced with the regular WBA prefix

[BoldUlysses]

However, the first 26 left-hand drive ECE examples of the E28 M5 were produced with the regular WBA prefix

Well I'm sure the purists would grandfather them in, lol. :D

[ShapeShifter]

Label whores and elitism seem to be the tone when this comes up weekly.
I find it comical.

[B10 BITURBO]

But i agree,, a true M car with S-engine is a WBS .. also

for us the European,, we have never understood the USA S50 or S52


for us a real S-engine is ITB ;)

[bigsixe34]

I'm with you, Pat. Lotta people like to carry the "///M Car Club" torch.
I have a WBS motor in my WBA 525i. I wonder what that makes my car? :stickoutt

[BoldUlysses]

But i agree,, a true M car with S-engine is a WBS .. also

for us the European,, we have never understood the USA S50 or S52


for us a real S-engine is ITB ;)

Yep. That illustrates the inherent confusion surrounding the whole issue, and further relegates the elitists' arguments into the realm of the subjective, and makes them look increasingly like pure snobbery and less based on concrete qualities found in the cars themselves.

[jhayregz]

they don't exsist in Canada....

























http://www.izismile.com/img/img3/20100908/640/funny_derp_pictures_640_43.jpg

[bigsixe34]

But i agree,, a true M car with S-engine is a WBS .. also

for us the European,, we have never understood the USA S50 or S52


for us a real S-engine is ITB ;)
:lol Europeans
"You guys have "this". That's nice, but stupid. We have THIS, which is better..."
You know what I like to think of as a good comparison? I never understood why you could get MTech bumpers on all models over there. I mean, factory MSport bumpers on 525i Tourings? Really devalues a true ///M car as far as appearance goes. For us, only real Motorsport cars should come factory with the bumpers, etc..
Edit: This is getting really funny.

[B10 BITURBO]

:lol Europeans
"You guys have "this". That's nice, but stupid. We have THIS, which is better..."
You know what I like to think of as a good comparison? I never understood why you could get MTech bumpers on all models over there. I mean, factory MSport bumpers on 525i Tourings? Really devalues a true ///M car as far as appearance goes. For us, only real Motorsport cars should come factory with the bumpers, etc..
Edit: This is getting really funny.

I see.. NOW we are really going in to ww3 ,, i can not imagine anything better on a N-A BMW except M540@32 and L6 vs ALL European model that were offered as an ///M car

[Justin Adkins]

There are tons here on the board. Everyone with a 540 and M bumpers qualifies!

What about a 525i with M bumpers?

[ShapeShifter]

I'm with you, Pat. Lotta people like to carry the "///M Car Club" torch.
I have a WBS motor in my WBA 525i. I wonder what that makes my car? :stickoutt

Thats just asking for a world of trouble.... :nono


What about a 525i with M bumpers?

No, the line has to be drawn somewhere....

And it seems there is only one line in the mind of some folks. M5 with WBS VIN and all others to the left :(

[Justin Adkins]

Thats just asking for a world of trouble.... :nono

No, the line has to be drawn somewhere....

And it seems there is only one line in the mind of some folks. M5 with WBS VIN and all others to the left :(

Well I bought my car with them. And I sure as hell not getting rid of them. Haha

[Layne]

:bigun2
However, the first 26 left-hand drive ECE examples of the E28 M5 were produced with the regular WBA prefix

Also the first few months of E30 M3 production have WBA, and as I said earlier, all of the E24's (apparently because E24 production in Dingolfing was so low already it wasn't necessary to segregate the M's).


There is no possible way to draw a hard line.
WBA vs. WBS or built in Garching vs. elsewhere are both made invalid qualifiers by the very real-M-car E24 meeting neither qualification. Using the motorsport engine to identify "real" M's may be valid... But E12 M535i's did not have one and were handbuilt at the motorsport facility (in Munich, not yet moved to Garching). The WBS vin did not exist yet, so who knows if they would have used it.

[87shark]

Psh. Everyone knows the m30 powered cars are superior to both the M5 and 540i. All hail the 535

[dalldall]

this was built at the factory:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/81/volvo_262_coupe_bertone.jpg/800px-volvo_262_coupe_bertone.jpg

http://images.hemmings.com/wp-content/uploads//2010/09/262-3.jpg

special edition 262c bertone.

*shudder*



the point is no matter what people say, to the purists, if there's no "s" in the vin, it's not an m-car. Period.

However, the application of that "s" is totally up to bmw's discretion, so as layne and zubbie pointed out, it's entirely a marketing ploy. And for my money, those who build on an arbitrary factory decision to create a kind of elitist enclave within the enthusiast community reveal more about themselves than about the cars they reverence.

That's human nature, though. :dunno mmmmmmmmm volvo!

[B10 BITURBO]

But E12 M535i's did not have one and were handbuilt at the motorsport facility (in Munich, not yet moved to Garching). The WBS vin did not exist yet, so who knows if they would have used it.
Good point,, i was writing an article in car-magazine here in Reykjavik

http://www.motorogsport.is/ and it was about the story of ///M cars

and my opinion is that the E12 ,, and certenly E28 M535 was somekind of abuse or misunderstanding with the ///M not for Motorsport but for Marketing,, :shifty

My opinion is that ,, a ///M car is a car with semi race engine,, car for the street with race option tiltet to comfort/sport

[ShapeShifter]

http://youtu.be/lvIEtggFbvY

Notice how young Dr. Mario Theissen is.

[BoldUlysses]

and my opinion is that the E12 ,, and certenly E28 M535 was somekind of abuse or misunderstanding with the ///M not for Motorsport but for Marketing,, :shifty

My opinion is that ,, a ///M car is a car with semi race engine,, car for the street with race option tiltet to comfort/sport

If there's one constant in BMW's history, it's their willingness to contradict and/or abuse their nomenclature system for marketing purposes, which really renders the whole pursuit of a "true M car" an exercise in futility.

[ShapeShifter]

I don’t think that was the case in the early 80's. Yes, marketing was a fact but, it was still a purpose built car. Also made for homologation rules to go DTM racing.

[BoldUlysses]

Well even if they weren't misapplying (according to their initial "rules") the M badge, the seeds of it were there in cars like the 5/633 (actually 3.2L) and the 745i (actually a 3.4 turbo). And so on.

[B10 BITURBO]

I don’t think that was the case in the early 80's. Yes, marketing was a fact but, it was still a purpose built car. Also made for homologation rules to go DTM racing.

I agree on that,, but not for DTM,, they used E30 M3 for that

[NikosX]

Duh, all others to the left.

Do you see people with e30 325is saying that even though they're down 30ish hp from the e30 M3 that it's a better car?

$1,000 car vs $30,000 car.

[e34Croak]

Duh, all others to the left.

Do you see people with e30 325is saying that even though they're down 30ish hp from the e30 M3 that it's a better car?

$1,000 car vs $30,000 car.
:(

[B10 BITURBO]

Duh, all others to the left.

Do you see people with e30 325is saying that even though they're down 30ish hp from the e30 M3 that it's a better car?

$1,000 car vs $30,000 car.



:rofl:rofl

[M540fella]

All I'm gonna say is all car makers have there own motorsports divisions, and they all mislabel cars.
Ford does it,SVT Focus.
Hell I had a 87 Chevy Z24. It was just a stock Cavalier with a body kit.
It's smart buisness really. Not everyone can afford the top of the line model. So they dress up a base model and make it look more sporty to up sales.
I would much rather have an e34 msport, than a e39 msport.
It's also funny how there's so much hate on here but as soon as an msport is parted,y'all are all over them like vultures.

[shaytanabyad]

Ugh...

[richinvan]

All I'm gonna say is all car makers have there own motorsports divisions, and they all mislabel cars.
Ford does it,SVT Focus.
Hell I had a 87 Chevy Z24. It was just a stock Cavalier with a body kit.
It's smart buisness really. Not everyone can afford the top of the line model. So they dress up a base model and make it look more sporty to up sales.
I would much rather have an e34 msport, than a e39 msport.
It's also funny how there's so much hate on here but as soon as an msport is parted,y'all are all over them like vultures.

Well, in the Chevy case the "motorsport" equivalent is the SS level. The Z24 is just an option code - which in this case just signified the body kit. But yeah, I get ya.

As far as the BMW side of the argument goes - back in the E28, E30, E34 days BMW offered an ///M badge as an accessory option.

If someone wants to throw an ///M badge on their car... well, it's their car, good on them.

Frankly, this whole "if it's not an S VIN, it's not good enough" is a joke. Who cares... 90% of the people here will never drive their cars to a limit where it makes a difference, nor do they have the skills to do so.

[ShapeShifter]

Nor does 99% of John Q. Public have any idea what the difference is between a 518 or an M5. I guess as far as pulling up to a stop light, the guy in the 518 is winning.


http://splitsider.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/charliesheen_WinningMadeEasy_SS2.jpg

[M540fella]

Look at that Hondakiller guy, he thought his m20 525i was a M5 because someone put a M5 badge on it.
Did he care?

[PorscheH6]

When is the last time anyone has EVER seen an M-Sport sell for more than $20k?

-crickets-

[M540fella]

Do I care? Nope. And that's my point, I want a M5 without a pita engine.
I want a car I can drive hard and not have to worry if something breaks, that I'm going to have mortgage out my house to fix it.
So basically what you're telling me is this is a status symbol.
You're rich,I'm not. You're better than me...I get it. Do I care? NOPE!
Do I think your $20k M5 is better than my $4.5k M-sport? NOPE!

[PorscheH6]

I wasn't directing that at you, just in general..sorry bout that.

Give me a break though, this is not rennlist..nobody here is 'rich', maybe there are, but they sure aren't posting.

[M540fella]

It's cool man no problem. I really didn't take it personally.
I see your arguement.
And I would love to own an M5 but I think it makes more finanical sense for me to own my car.
I think you said something about owning a 540i is 80% of the fun of an M5 for 20% of the cost of an M5.
That's exactly why I love my car...

[richinvan]

I wasn't directing that at you, just in general..sorry bout that.

Give me a break though, this is not rennlist..nobody here is 'rich', maybe there are, but they sure aren't posting.

I am.

Wait, that's just my name.

Anyway, I could have bought an M5. But I didn't want to wait for the right one to come by. I found an affordable low-mileage car that I wanted to spend a year or two turning every single bolt, customizing it just the way I wanted.

After all I've put into it - I could have bought 2 M5's... and I still won't have S38 power.

I really couldn't care less. My car is a blast to drive, I get plenty of compliments on it, and it's just fun enough to keep me out of trouble.

The elitism and cliquiness of people here who have that little ///M badge on their car (and it's not all M5 owners, but there are some) is hilarious - the 2012 Genesis V8 I just had as a rental for a few months would make an E34 look like a Yugo. And used those aren't selling for much more than a mint M5 is now.

Get over yourselves, please. I mean that in the nicest way: this is supposed to be a community of enthusiasts, not r3vlimited.

[M540fella]

I am.

Wait, that's just my name.

Anyway, I could have bought an M5. But I didn't want to wait for the right one to come by. I found an affordable low-mileage car that I wanted to spend a year or two turning every single bolt, customizing it just the way I wanted.

After all I've put into it - I could have bought 2 M5's... and I still won't have S38 power.

I really couldn't care less. My car is a blast to drive, I get plenty of compliments on it, and it's just fun enough to keep me out of trouble.

The elitism and cliquiness of people here who have that little ///M badge on their car (and it's not all M5 owners, but there are some) is hilarious - the 2012 Genesis V8 I just had as a rental for a few months would make an E34 look like a Yugo. And used those aren't selling for much more than a mint M5 is now.

Get over yourselves, please. I mean that in the nicest way: this is supposed to be a community of enthusiasts, not r3vlimited.
Completely agree I LOVE ALL E34s.
Hell I'd love to find a nice 525i around here but they're all rag'd out.

[Aradaiel]

Better yet, lets proposition Kevlar to make an M-Sport sub form so y'all can diddle one another in privacy?

Lets get an m5 one, too. That way you can diddle yourself in it.

[e34Croak]

Umm this is open again? Lol what is going on?

[ShapeShifter]

Just diddling and ego stroking. :dunno

[e34Croak]

Well I don't fit in with either group.






Ill show myself out.


And then laugh about how they actually reopened this.

[M3 Euro LTW]

No one wants them, that's why they're for sale (or being parted) and why they sold 200 of them to begin with...

Want a V8 and a 6 speed? Get an E39, the chassis was actually designed to work with the motor

Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course, I disagree. I have one of each, and IMHO....

There is no comparison, the E34 is much more fun to drive.

The M-Sport has the same chassis and handles just as well as my old 91 M5 did, with the addition of the EDC, Its awesome. I guess the radio is not as fancy, and the steering wheel radio controls are missing... But for me personally, I love the seats and lighter weight of the E34. Yeah, I'd have put a LS 3.23 in from the factory, but you can't have everything.

With respect to engine appropriateness, guessing you turn your nose up at the original Cobras too? (JK)

***********
With respect to the rest of the thread....fun reading.

BMW (IMO) has a spotty record of using the WBS tag and having it "mean something".

If you wanted to really be a purist, one could insist on engine & chassis & body being special to qualify as a real M:

Ie M1, E30M3..... maybe that is the entire list of cars pre OBD-II that should be real M's.

But really, one could argue having a special engine is the heart of an M car..., but where do you then draw the line, just how special?

Should US spec E36 M3s be allowed in? Does bore/stroke/cams make it an M engine? Really not.....warmed over 325.
Should S62 powered M5's be allowed in? Well.... hydraulic lifters? Limited redline? Heat exchanger to cool the oil? Weirdness.
The S50B30, S50B32, and S54 are clearly special.... (Don't know the later S65 S68 etc ... ones as well TBH)

At the end of the day, people can look down their noses at any non-WBS BMW they want to as far as I'm concerned. The less publicity about BMW's limited edition cars, whether it be suspension, body kit, or interior, whatever, the more affordable they are to people that know the difference from the rest of them, and enjoy having something special. BMW clearly picks and chooses which limited edition cars get the WBS signature, it means next to nothing to me in terms of how fun the car is to drive and own.

When E34 M5's are parted out, people jump at the opportunity to take their non WBS E34's up a notch with the seats, bumpers, brakes, sways, shocks, springs, whatever... the M-Sport came with those and more. Get it cheap and enjoy it!

They made 8013 Z1's... non of them with WBS... but I think its still a desirable modern BMW, cool as can be.
I've got one of the M-Technic 325's, (for sale with an S54 when I get off my dufus and finish it off)... Again, its not a WBS, but its still cool as hell, not just due to the S54.

I've got a M-Sport, got it affordably, and it looks and behaves 90% of the time as well as or better than my E34 M5 did.... and I don't worry as much about the expensive engine. People in the know actually think its pretty cool. At a recent independent shop...."I heard you pull up, that rumble doesn't sound like a run of the mill M5"
(I won't get into my LTW E36, I've butchered that, but it was cool one day, now its... well, different)

People are subjective about what turns them on.... in this case, the M-Sport will always have its following, and I for one am GLAD its not valued as much as its rarity might have brought it to.

[93FIM5]

Everyone's entitled to their opinion of course, I disagree. I have one of each, and IMHO....

There is no comparison, the E34 is much more fun to drive.

The M-Sport has the same chassis and handles just as well as my old 91 M5 did, with the addition of the EDC, Its awesome. I guess the radio is not as fancy, and the steering wheel radio controls are sorta nice. But for me personally, I love the seats and lighter weight of the E34.
***********
With respect to the rest of the thread....fun reading.

BMW (IMO) has a spotty record of using the WBS tag.

If you wanted to really be a purist, one would insist on engine & chassis & body being special to qualify as a real M:

Ie M1, E30M3..... maybe that is the entire list of cars pre OBD-II that should be real M's.

But really, one could argue just having a special engine, but where do you then draw the line, just how special?

Should US spec E36 M3s be allowed in? Does bore/stroke/cams make it an M engine? Really not.....warmed over 325.
Should S62 powered M5's be allowed in? Well.... hydraulic lifters? Limited redline? Heat exchanger to cool the oil? Weirdness.
The S50B30, S50B32, and S54 are clearly special.... (Don't know the later ones as well TBH)

At the end of the day, people can look down their noses at any non-WBS BMW they want to as far as I'm concerned. The less publicity about BMW's limited edition cars, whether it be suspension, body kit, or interior, whatever, the more affordable they are to people that know the difference from the rest of them, and enjoy having something special.

When M5's are parted out, people jump at the opportunity to take their non WBS E34's up a notch with the brakes, sways, shocks, springs, whatever... the M-Sport came with those and more. Get it cheap and enjoy it!

They made 8013 Z1's... non of them with WBS... but I think its as cool as can be.
I've got one of the M-Technic 325's, for sale with an S54 when I get off my dufus and finish it off... Again, its not a WBS, but its still cool as hell.
I've got a M-Sport, got it affordably, and it looks and behaves 90% of the time as well as or better than my E34 M5 did.... and I don't worry as much about the expensive engine. People in the know actually think its pretty cool.
(I won't get into my LTW E36, I've butchered that, but it was cool one day, now its... well, different)

People are subjective about what turns them on.... in this case, the M-Sport will always have its following, and I for one am GLAD its not valued as much as its rarity might have brought it to.

With respect to engine appropriateness, guessing you turn your nose up at the original Cobras too? (JK)

Well said, and I agree.

[T444E]

Duh, all others to the left.

Do you see people with e30 325is saying that even though they're down 30ish hp from the e30 M3 that it's a better car?

$1,000 car vs $30,000 car.

E30 M3....30k.
LOL


lets get an m5 one, too. That way you can diddle yourself in it.


BURN!

[prash]

Lol. M sports. Now "real" M sports. The cars were a marketing ploy! How do so few realize that?

Typical statement from the resident arrogant ignorant American. :rolleyes


Also the first few months of E30 M3 production have WBA, and as I said earlier, all of the E24's (apparently because E24 production in Dingolfing was so low already it wasn't necessary to segregate the M's).


There is no possible way to draw a hard line.
WBA vs. WBS or built in Garching vs. elsewhere are both made invalid qualifiers by the very real-M-car E24 meeting neither qualification. Using the motorsport engine to identify "real" M's may be valid... But E12 M535i's did not have one and were handbuilt at the motorsport facility (in Munich, not yet moved to Garching). The WBS vin did not exist yet, so who knows if they would have used it.

Great post. Back where I'm from in South Africa there were various unique production runs that were not built in Garching or sport a WBS vin.

Case and point. South African market E23 745i. They couldn't use the turbo M30 in RHD cars so the locals down there slotted the M88 in there instead.

http://www.bmwmregistry.com/model_faq.php?id=4


When is the last time anyone has EVER seen an M-Sport sell for more than $20k?

-crickets-

The 32 CDN versions will sell for that all day long up here.


No one wants them, that's why they're for sale (or being parted) and why they sold 200 of them to begin with...

Want a V8 and a 6 speed? Get an E39, the chassis was actually designed to work with the motor

The E34 540 is better in various ways to the E39. After everything I've read here over the years I find the E34 V8 6spd to be a more unique vehicle compared to the E39.

The E34 M5 is a legendary car. I don't hate on it for being an gas gussling antiquated high maintenance machine that's barely faster than a V6 Honda Accord because it's about so much more than that.

However, V8s are as American as the bald eagle and the 6spd 540s appeal will never diminish among BMW fans.

[slippyM395]

Dumbest thread ever, msports are rarer than M5s and people are jealous

[JCSe34m30]

How come people in the car world can never just let people like what they like and respect them for such???

I'm sure the mass produced junk I think is cool as f**k would probably make many of the euro purists around here sick. Doesn't mean I don't get it...means better is many times relative. Especially among car enthusiasts!

[NikosX]

Because that's what makes horse races.

[gixxerboy63]

There are tons here on the board. Everyone with a 540 and M bumpers qualifies!

Wrong.
-10 points

[ShapeShifter]

I found these to be borderline comical.


We all have humble beginnings...

[WestSeattle]

Collectors care. That's big money when number cars are actually not numbered. I pretty sure BMW was sued for originally selling the e28 m5 as a numbered car and then producing over 1000

[ShapeShifter]

No E34 will never be "big money".....

[B10 BITURBO]

Great post. Back where I'm from in South Africa there were various unique production runs that were not built in Garching or sport a WBS vin.

Case and point. South African market E23 745i. They couldn't use the turbo M30 in RHD cars so the locals down there slotted the M88 in there instead.





Not only that... just 17 were made MANUAL,, so in a way it is one of the most ULTRA RARE ///M car ever made

http://www.bigarnie.co.za/cars/745i/files/SA745i.pdf


((totally OT,, i think 6 manual 745 LHD were made in the EU under very special order ,, sadly not a ///M-car but also utterly rare))

[93FIM5]

I found these to be borderline comical.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=581199

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582149

We all have humble beginnings...

Great job . . . ever wonder why threads get shut down :rolleyes? Maybe instead of trading barbs we can stay on track?

[NikosX]

I found these to be borderline comical.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=581199

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=582149

We all have humble beginnings...

You were obviously born omnipotent. That was 7 years ago. I was 17. I hadnt bought my first M5 yet.

Which I might add cost 5-6x what you all are finally paying now, when "upgrading" to your all mighty 540i6.

[ShapeShifter]

You are right I should have restrained. Shame you didn't feel the same way about this comment which was also useless to the topic.


Better yet, lets proposition Kevlar to make an M-Sport sub form so y'all can diddle one another in privacy?


You were obviously born omnipotent. That was 7 years ago. I was 17. I hadnt bought my first M5 yet.

Which I might add cost 5-6x what you all are finally paying now, when "upgrading" to your all mighty 540i6.


I know I am inferior to you, but I'm ok with it. Are you?

[93FIM5]

Not only that... just 17 were made MANUAL,, so in a way it is one of the most ULTRA RARE ///M car ever made

http://www.bigarnie.co.za/cars/745i/files/SA745i.pdf


((totally OT,, i think 6 manual 745 LHD were made in the EU under very special order ,, sadly not a ///M-car but also utterly rare))

The SA745i is a very cool car!

Honestly if M would have tweaked the engine of the M540i just a little maybe give it 300hp it would differentiate it enough for me from the standard 540i. I do like the idea of EDC for a dual purpose car which is what the M5 and M540i were conceived as and IMO is what really makes the M540i so special. You M sport owners should post up more pics!

[Steve547i]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/photos/7400000/Abe-Simpson-walking-in-and-out-the-simpsons-7414427-320-240.gif

[gixxerboy63]

You were obviously born omnipotent. That was 7 years ago. I was 17. I hadnt bought my first M5 yet.

Which I might add cost 5-6x what you all are finally paying now, when "upgrading" to your all mighty 540i6.

Yet another unintelligent and unsubstantiated quip. You have no idea as to what level any of us have invested in our cars in terms of performance and/or money. Put your money where your mouth is.... come on over to VIR and bring your best M5. Please!

;)

[staystackin]

You were obviously born omnipotent. That was 7 years ago. I was 17. I hadnt bought my first M5 yet.

Which I might add cost 5-6x what you all are finally paying now, when "upgrading" to your all mighty 540i6.

You were much more polite back then! :eyecrazy

Just foolin around though.


I know my 540 isn't an m-sport, or an m5, and I'm fine with that. However, I do have an m5 hood, and m-sport bumpers (in the basement needing paint) and an m5 color from the factory... Am I rare yet? :devillook

[ShapeShifter]

You were much more polite back then! :eyecrazy

Just foolin around though.


I know my 540 isn't an m-sport, or an m5, and I'm fine with that. However, I do have an m5 hood, and m-sport bumpers (in the basement needing paint) and an m5 color from the factory... Am I rare yet? :devillook


There is no M5 hood.... Do yo mean narrow grill like the majority of e34's?

[M540fella]

No he got it off a M5. I think it was Nat's...

[NikosX]

Yet another unintelligent and unsubstantiated quip. You have no idea as to what level any of us have invested in our cars in terms of performance and/or money. Put your money where your mouth is.... come on over to VIR and bring your best M5. Please!

;)

10 days ago one of the M5s got a new s38. You want to talk about money invested e34s?

I just don't post about every new polished wave washer I have installed.

[staystackin]

There is no M5 hood.... Do yo mean narrow grill like the majority of e34's?
:lol yes

No he got it off a M5. I think it was Nat's...
but also this.:alright

[PorscheH6]

A+ thread would read again.

[ShapeShifter]

http://www.unbehagenadvisors.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/buring_money_rt.png

[richinvan]

10 days ago one of the M5s got a new s38. You want to talk about money invested e34s?

I just don't post about every new polished wave washer I have installed.

Can we have your dad's number so we can call him directly and ask how much money he's "invested" in E34's?

:devillook:devillook

[M540fella]

Can we have your dad's number so we can call him directly and ask how much money he's "invested" in E34's?

:devillook:devillook
:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol:lol

[camaroguy]

10 days ago one of the M5s got a new s38. You want to talk about money invested e34s?

I just don't post about every new polished wave washer I have installed.

So sad Nik, it still won't out corner the lowly M-Sport....You know, stock for stock, since we are talking about the validity of cars BMW built at the factory.

[gixxerboy63]

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_JQlq65Qnj3g/TNT3eevFz2I/AAAAAAAAAaE/MxmMagDuAfU/s1600/self-esteem2.jpg

[prash]

10 days ago one of the M5s got a new s38. You want to talk about money invested e34s?

I just don't post about every new polished wave washer I have installed.

You seem to get an ego boost because of the money you spend on these things as if that somehow makes you smarter than us.



http://www.unbehagenadvisors.com/site/wp-content/uploads/2012/11/buring_money_rt.png

Love it.

[5mall5nail5]

10 days ago one of the M5s got a new s38. You want to talk about money invested e34s?

I just don't post about every new polished wave washer I have installed.

Wave washers? Drilled anodized aluminum washers... now we're talkin!

http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8490/8171095858_87e3ac13a4.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67031861@N08/8171095858/)
Purple fasteners (http://www.flickr.com/photos/67031861@N08/8171095858/) by Jon Kensy (http://www.flickr.com/people/67031861@N08/), on Flickr

Don't worry the washers were only like $1/ea. The dome nuts were about $2 - 3 ea. Woo!

Now rocking about $1,000 worth of wastegates. Woohaw!

But alas, an M-Sport is still more rare than an M5. I own neither :( I never will :( So sad.

[M540fella]

Lol this thread keeps getting better!

[NikosX]

Can we have your dad's number so we can call him directly and ask how much money he's "invested" in E34's?

:devillook:devillook

Lol Dad is retired. Offered to invest in my car hobby if I started buying real cars. (Read, something Italian) As long as I was into slow sedans I'm on my own.




So sad Nik, it still won't out corner the lowly M-Sport....You know, stock for stock, since we are talking about the validity of cars BMW built at the factory.

Stock for stock you may be right. But none of my cars have stock suspension and frankly, I think I've driven one car with factory Boges and SLS.

I have however experienced EDC in sport and will admit, it's a pretty awesome system.

Gixxer I guess this means you don't want that MINT 130k mile M5 anymore?




You seem to get an ego boost because of the money you spend on these things as if that somehow makes you smarter than us.

Love it.

Prash! Glad to see you're back. I've missed you. How's your 540ia doing?

I have life insurance. And you're right. I am smarter than you. Glad you've finally come to that conclusion. Keep studying in school and maybe one day you'll be as smart as I am. :) always happy to meet a fan. I'm always thrilled to see members with as much enthusiasm as you have. Keeps this place kicking.

Btw Jon, those purple fasteners are pretty badass. Did you do that yourself? I'd like to buy some black ones.

[thatonedood]

I had no idea the canajuns had such a hard line stance on arrogance. Look out for that storm up north.

[richinvan]

I had no idea the canajuns had such a hard line stance on arrogance. Look out for that storm up north.

The winters are long up here.

[RS4Drew]

I've spoken to Nik and while does not need anyone to defend him or fight his battles, he's a very decent fellow who shares our passion for BMW's.

Can't we all just get along and be like Fonzi?

[NikosX]

I've spoken to Nik and while does not need anyone to defend him or fight his battles, he's a very decent fellow who shares our passion for BMW's.

Can't we all just get along and be like Fonzi?

Hey Drew, I've been meaning to touch base with you.

[richinvan]

Can't we all just get along and be like Fonzi?

AYYYYYYY

http://i.imgur.com/RYb64.gif

[staystackin]

I think that's what most people fail to realize, he's probably just trollin' ya. Its the internet, expect it every once in a while dudes.

[NikosX]

It's funny you mention Henry Winkler. I've actually talked with him at length about BMWs specifically e34s at Scottsdale Cars and Coffee last year.


I think that's what most people fail to realize, he's probably just trollin' ya. Its the internet, expect it every once in a while dudes.

This! And thank you! You get it.

[richinvan]

I think that's what most people fail to realize, he's probably just trollin' ya. Its the internet, expect it every once in a while dudes.

And I hope he doesn't fail to realize that most people are just trolling right back. ;)


It's funny you mention Henry Winkler. I've actually talked with him at length about BMWs specifically e34s at Scottsdale Cars and Coffee last year.


Was that before or after you told Jay Leno that his M-Sport was garbage? :redspot

[NikosX]

And I hope he doesn't fail to realize that most people are just trolling right back. ;)

Was that before or after you told Jay Leno that his M-Sport was garbage? :redspot

I realize that. Lol That's why this place is so fun.

And shortly before.

[RS4Drew]

AYYYYYYY

http://i.imgur.com/RYb64.gif
That's what I'm talking about!

[RS4Drew]

Hey Drew, I've been meaning to touch base with you.
Nik-hit me up when you have a few and we'll talk.

[RS4Drew]

Hey Drew, I've been meaning to touch base with you.
Nik-hit me up when you have a few and we'll talk.

[prash]

I had no idea the canajuns had such a hard line stance on arrogance. Look out for that storm up north.

If he contributed a lot of positive knowledgeable posts around here like many of the other long time regular posters I'd respect him and tolerate the arrogant ones. Instead he comes off as this wierd E34-M5-Loving-Troll in here.


I've spoken to Nik and while does not need anyone to defend him or fight his battles, he's a very decent fellow who shares our passion for BMW's.

Can't we all just get along and be like Fonzi?

Possibly he is better to be around in person than he is online, but that doesn't mean much. If what you say is true his behaviour should be pretty consistent online.

[RS4Drew]

Hey Drew, I've been meaning to touch base with you.
Nik-hit me up when you have a few and we'll talk.

I'm just trying to keep things relaxed. Calling people names on an online forum doesn't make anything better for anyone. Opinions are like you know what. We all have one. It's not hurting you at the end of the day is it?

I'm just trying to keep things relaxed. Calling people names on an online forum doesn't make anything better for anyone. Opinions are like you know what. We all have one. It's not hurting you at the end of the day is it?

Dang timeout on my iPhone. You all get my point though?

[clevertd]

I do not. I wish for you to post it again.

[Justin6745]

Was that before or after you told Jay Leno that his M-Sport was garbage? :redspot
That was absolutely beautiful Rich, I now owe you two pints

This thread is probably my favourite since joining.

I've got a way bigger dong than all you guys, plus Jessica Alba used to own my car. So it dominates all the other mediocre cars on here

http://media.tumblr.com/819278ba3a88df6c375d652a6bd79e0c/tumblr_mi4dosM0f61s4xtklo1_400.gif

[ShapeShifter]

Sit on it Pottsie

[RS4Drew]

Sit on it Pottsie

Check yourself before wreck yourself Pat

[gixxerboy63]

...Gixxer I guess this means you don't want that MINT 130k mile M5 anymore?

Actually, I am still interested in buying the Euro M5.