RWD w/ Winter Tires vs AWD w/ A/S Tires

[Rocket99]

Which car would perform better in snow: a RWD BMW w/ winter tires or an xDrive w/ A/S tires? (I realize that an xDrive w/ winter tires is better than both, but that's not my question)

Taking it one step further, what if we weren't talking about a BMW. Let's say we're talking about a VW with FWD w/ A/S tires vs a VW with AWD? FWD is a lot better than RWD on snow, so I'd be curious about this comparison too.

[srb6537]

I have aggressive snow tires on all four corners in the winter, and my e38 goes thru everything just as well as the wife's Lexus SUV AWD, sometimes better!

[SwissCheeseHead]

RWD with Winter tires > AWD with A/S

FWD is not better than RWD in snow. FWD does not allow you to turn when coming around a corner whereas with RWD you can have a controlled slide with the right throttle control. FWD is a rear ending, side swiping, curb hitting or tree smashing waiting to happen if you're not taking the turn easy. RWD have a tendency to spin out if you don't have the right throttle control. Either way, stupid driving results in stupid results.

This applies to any year make/model.

[Rocket99]

FWD is not better than RWD in snow. FWD does not allow you to turn when coming around a corner whereas with RWD you can have a controlled slide with the right throttle control.

What about when starting from a stop, or climbing a modest hill?



Either way, stupid driving results in stupid results.

I don't disagree with that, but tires and AWD/RWD/FWD are not irrelevant factors. I would welcome your thoughts on my original question . . . what's better in snow, FWD/RWD with winter tires, or, AWD with A/S tires? (Assume same car, same driver, same everything else)

[Rocket99]

I have aggressive snow tires on all four corners in the winter, and my e38 goes thru everything just as well as the wife's Lexus SUV AWD, sometimes better!

What kind of snow tires do you have?

[mryakan]

Snow tires are > # of driven wheels all the time. If you want the best traction ever, AWD+ snows, if you are willing to compromise a bit of traction for dry performance, go RWD+snows. AWD+A/S are not a good idea in places that see lots of snow.
I have a colleague with a AWD 3 series who thought he could survive the winter with A/S despite my advise otherwise. Well guess what, after one scary trip on a snowy day, he switched to snow tires and was telling me how wrong he was and that I was right, he now has a tank.

[Zekerbox]

I had dedicated snows on my 540i sport and it did great in the snow. Although an e39 is heavy lol

[Silverlight]

I had dedicated snows on my 540i sport and it did great in the snow. Although an e39 is heavy lol

I don't think its as much about the weight, but more about how balanced the car is. The 540 is so predictable in the snow with snow tires. Makes it hard not to avoid kicking out the rear every now and then :devillook

[Zekerbox]

I don't think its as much about the weight, but more about how balanced the car is. The 540 is so predictable in the snow with snow tires. Makes it hard not to avoid kicking out the rear every now and then :devillook

With DSC on its hard to get into trouble

Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk 2

[ApexOnYou]

I have had numerous RWD cars with new dedicated snows, and one AWD car with all seasons with around 50% tread remaining. Having said that, the AWD got me through deep low speed stuff that the RWD cars might have had problems with. When cruising at speed in snow I don't notice much of a difference, but in theory the RWD with new snows should be far superior. And RWD is obviously going to be slower from stops, AWD is pretty amazing even from a stop. I used to enjoy freshly powdered on ramps..

[Rocket99]

Snow tires are > # of driven wheels all the time. If you want the best traction ever, AWD+ snows, if you are willing to compromise a bit of traction for dry performance, go RWD+snows. AWD+A/S are not a good idea in places that see lots of snow.

Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm asking this question for two reasons:

One, I'm probably going to trade in my 2010 xDrive soon for an F30 and I wonder whether I should just get the RWD and buy winter tires, and save $2,000 on the car.

Second, my wife has a Honda AWD CRV which I'm thinking of trading in for a FWD Jetta TDI. Would you say that the Jetta FWD + snows is a better combo than her AWD CRV?

What about, in general, FWD + snows vs. RWD + snows? I always thought FWD was superior. Your thoughts?

[SwissCheeseHead]

Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm asking this question for two reasons:

One, I'm probably going to trade in my 2010 xDrive soon for an F30 and I wonder whether I should just get the RWD and buy winter tires, and save $2,000 on the car.

Second, my wife has a Honda AWD CRV which I'm thinking of trading in for a FWD Jetta TDI. Would you say that the Jetta FWD + snows is a better combo than her AWD CRV?

What about, in general, FWD + snows vs. RWD + snows? I always thought FWD was superior. Your thoughts?


RWD with Winter tires > AWD with A/S

FWD is not better than RWD in snow. FWD does not allow you to turn when coming around a corner whereas with RWD you can have a controlled slide with the right throttle control. FWD is a rear ending, side swiping, curb hitting or tree smashing waiting to happen if you're not taking the turn easy. RWD have a tendency to spin out if you don't have the right throttle control. Either way, stupid driving results in stupid results.

This applies to any year make/model.

ummm....

[mryakan]

Thank you, that's very helpful. I'm asking this question for two reasons:

One, I'm probably going to trade in my 2010 xDrive soon for an F30 and I wonder whether I should just get the RWD and buy winter tires, and save $2,000 on the car.

Second, my wife has a Honda AWD CRV which I'm thinking of trading in for a FWD Jetta TDI. Would you say that the Jetta FWD + snows is a better combo than her AWD CRV?

What about, in general, FWD + snows vs. RWD + snows? I always thought FWD was superior. Your thoughts?
RWD will always have a disadvantage in some circumstances no matter what, try pushing a shopping car in heavy snow to see. That being said, unless it is a steep incline, with the proper snow tires you'll have no problems but will need to be patient off the line. You will not be beating AWD cars off the line in the snow even with snow tires, but snow/winter conditions are not meant for light to light racing. DSC does an extremely good job in keeping the car going in a straight line unless you do something really silly. And as far as turning or stopping, the driven wheels have no bearing on it and actually the lesser weight of FWD will help stop in shorter distance.
People who live in remote areas where snow is not cleared often enough or early enough, or those who live on top of steep hills or driveways will definitely prefer AWD. For most people thought, AWD is not really a must. Just ask those who drove RWD cars in the snow before AWD became common and when snow tires were no where as good as they are today.
FWD with snows will fair somewhat better than RWD with snows as far as off the line traction is concerned (mainly due to the extra weight of the engine on top of the driven wheels), but they understeer like crazy in slippery conditions which I personally think is much worse and much more difficult to counteract than oversteering RWD. I hated my FWD cars in the snow way back, but I have exclusively had RWD BMWs since 97 and have never looked back or regretted it.

[Rocket99]

Thanks very much. That analysis is very helpful.

[E36 HateR]

Rwd with lsd + snow tires in the snow is the best!

[Jim@tirerack]

What you have to remember is AWD just helps you go. It does not help you stop or steer. The winter tires are more for control. I have driven BMW's for 25 straight years in the snow belt with winter tires and have not had any issues.
If I can help let me know.

[Rocket99]

What you have to remember is AWD just helps you go. It does not help you stop or steer. The winter tires are more for control. I have driven BMW's for 25 straight years in the snow belt with winter tires and have not had any issues. If I can help let me know.

Thanks Jim. Yes, AWD's main benefit is to get you going from a stop, whereas winter tires give you better grip for starting, stopping and turning. Is your BMW an xDrive?

Clearly, xDrive + winter tires is the best combo, but that's not what I was asking. In my area, they plow/salt very quickly, usually within a few hours. OTOH, I live on a steep hill and my driveway is a somewhat steep hill, and I wonder whether I'd be better off with (i) AWD + A/S (such as my wife's current Honda CRV or my current xDrive 3 series) or (ii) FWD/RWD + winter tires (such as getting my wife a Jetta TDI, or trading my car in for a RWD F30). I'd be interested in your thoughts.

[mryakan]

Thanks Jim. Yes, AWD's main benefit is to get you going from a stop, whereas winter tires give you better grip for starting, stopping and turning. Is your BMW an xDrive?

Clearly, xDrive + winter tires is the best combo, but that's not what I was asking. In my area, they plow/salt very quickly, usually within a few hours. OTOH, I live on a steep hill and my driveway is a somewhat steep hill, and I wonder whether I'd be better off with (i) AWD + A/S (such as my wife's current Honda CRV or my current xDrive 3 series) or (ii) FWD/RWD + winter tires (such as getting my wife a Jetta TDI, or trading my car in for a RWD F30). I'd be interested in your thoughts.
I still do not recommend AWD and A/S in upstate NY. However, in your situation, AWD+snow may be a better choice unless you can avoid driving uphill when the driveway/hill has not been plowed/treated. RWD has a tendency to go sideways and if you lose momentum, you could stall and sometimes may not be able to proceed uphill. I've had that happen on very few occasions, but most of those occasions I had to quit going up the driveway (luckily not mine, mine is flat) or find another route that is not so steep or not as crowded as to keep uphill momentum.
AWD also sits a bit higher so it may help with clearance issues which are another source of pain for these cars when the snow is deep (esp. with coupe of sedan w/sports package).

[Jim@tirerack]

I would still go with the winter tires over the all season. Using the Blizzak's I have never had an issue in any condition. My last house had a steep drive way coming out of the garage and we get 90" of snow per year and I never had a time where I wasn't able to get out of the driveway.

[Rocket99]

I would still go with the winter tires over the all season. Using the Blizzak's I have never had an issue in any condition. My last house had a steep drive way coming out of the garage and we get 90" of snow per year and I never had a time where I wasn't able to get out of the driveway.

Is your car an xDrive?


AWD+snow may be a better choice

We all agree that AWD + winter tires is clearly the best choice. It's something I may consider if/when I trade my 2010 in for an F30. I can save $2,000 by not getting the xDrive.

But I'm also looking at trading in my wife's AWD CRV for a Jetta TDI. The Jetta doesn't come in AWD, so I'm trying to determine which car would be better in snow: the current CRV w/ A/S's, or, the FWD Jetta with winter tires.

[mryakan]

Is your car an xDrive?



We all agree that AWD + winter tires is clearly the best choice. It's something I may consider if/when I trade my 2010 in for an F30. I can save $2,000 by not getting the xDrive.

But I'm also looking at trading in my wife's AWD CRV for a Jetta TDI. The Jetta doesn't come in AWD, so I'm trying to determine which car would be better in snow: the current CRV w/ A/S's, or, the FWD Jetta with winter tires.
For 99.9% of the cases I'd say the Jetta w/snows will do better.

Honestly, snow conditions differ depending on many factors. White slushy snow is different from dryish compacted snow, which differs from iced up snow or plain ice. I've had problems getting into my kids school parking lot which had a slight incline but that was when all the snow/freezing rain and water had combined and transformed into an icy slick patch, so your front wheel end up on a dry patch, but the rears are on ice and you cannot go further unless you power through the whole thing which is not a wise idea in a school parking lot. AWD will have the advantage of pulling the car via the wheels that have contact with the non icy patch. Still it is not enough for me to get an AWD bimmer, I prefer RWD (lower cost, moving parts, gas usage, etc). It is all situational, you get the idea. Choose what best suits your conditions/lifestyle. I will stick with RWD unless I live in Cottage country in which case a car is probably not the best choice to begin with, an SUV truck would be a better choice.

[SLA]

My wife has a slammed mkiv GLi that she had up in Buffalo all throughout college. She never had an issue getting around in the snow with snow tires, and you don't know snow until you have Buffalo snow. She had studded snows while she was up there, but now she runs non-studded Winterforces.

For me, I just run Conti DWS on my Legacy. I never had an issue, but then again winters here in South Jersey have been hit or miss in the past 2 years. Maybe we'll get some snow tomorrow night.

[Jim@tirerack]

My cars have always been rear wheel drive BMW's. No issues here.

[Xevuhtess7]

My friend's STI on all seasons couldn't keep up with my miata on blizzak's when we would go drifting in snow. Maybe I'm just a better driver though? In snow deeper than 4" I would have issues, but thats cause of ground clearance. I would choose a car with snows over all seasons, no matter what wheels are powered. Stopping and turning ability is so important to not getting in trouble

[Rocket99]

My friend's STI on all seasons couldn't keep up with my miata on blizzak's when we would go drifting in snow. Maybe I'm just a better driver though? In snow deeper than 4" I would have issues, but that's cause of ground clearance. I would choose a car with snows over all seasons, no matter what wheels are powered. Stopping and turning ability is so important to not getting in trouble

That seems to be the consensus around here. Appreciate the input.

Is there any situation where AWD + A/S are better than RWD/FWD + snows, such as starting from a stop on an uphill?

FWIW, I was unable to climb the hill to my house yesterday with my 328 xDrive with A/S. Snow was 4" - 5", part slushy, part packed, maybe a tiny bit icy. First time in three years I had a problem, but this is a steep hill. Wasn't living there before this year. I took an alternate route to the house that was also uphill, but not as steep. No problem.

[SLA]

That seems to be the consensus around here. Appreciate the input.

Is there any situation where AWD + A/S are better than RWD/FWD + snows, such as starting from a stop on an uphill?

FWIW, I was unable to climb the hill to my house yesterday with my 328 xDrive with A/S. Snow was 4" - 5", part slushy, part packed, maybe a tiny bit icy. First time in three years I had a problem, but this is a steep hill. Wasn't living there before this year. I took an alternate route to the house that was also uphill, but not as steep. No problem.

There's so many different variables at play, so what will work for one car won't necessarily work for another. Things like weather conditions, ice patches, tires, and the cars themselves all have to be considered. The best thing you can do is to equip your car as best you can. You have to remember all AWD systems are not created equal.

check this out: http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-video/winter-tyres-vs-4x4