BMW for first car?

[MrNick]

Hello,

I will be getting my own car soon. I have been obsessed with cars since I can remember, like many of you here, and know a lot about them. I never considered owning a BMW for a first car because I always thought they would be too much to buy, upkeep, and spend on insurance. So just out of curiosity I was searching around for used BMW's. I was looking for late 90's early 2000's 3 series like a 328i. Little to my surprise I saw many which were very affordable.

So I continued searching and soon I noticed I was finding E46 M3's and even e39 M5's for around the same price with about the same mileage, number of previous owners, 0 accidents, etc... I always considered cars like those "dreamcars". Little did I know I could afford them!

So, my big question is,

Why settle for a 328i when you can have an M3/M5? (Not including the amount for insurance, which will be a big difference)

Nick

[damonchoy]

Hey Nick,

Wow, you remind me a whole lot of myself. I was in the same boat as you just a few months ago. I ended up buying an E36 328i convertible and I'm very happy with my decision. I don't regret it at all.

Honestly, I think it'd be a better idea to start off with a cheaper car and have a lot of money left over to put into this car.

With a BMW, especially an M3 or an M5, it's not always just the initial cost of purchasing the vehicle itself that you have to worry about - it's the cost of upkeep, maintenance, modifications and such. So, if you can barely afford the cost of buying just the vehicle itself, you won't be able to afford the others unless you invest literally every penny you earn back into the car. Even then, you may still come up short and either end up with a car that always has problems, or you'll end up selling it because you realize you can't afford it.

I've only owned my car for a few months and have already put in another ~$2,000 in it and it's not even close to where I'd like to be yet. There is still a growing list of things I'd like to do to "perfect" the vehicle. I can't stand having an "unfinished" car. Maybe that's just me, though. If I were you (and I was you a few months ago), I'd buy the cheaper car and have more money left over for the inevitable.

That's assuming you don't have like $25,000 stowed away or something... :lol3 How much do you have, if you don't mind me asking? No, not what you plan on having when you buy the car... how much do you have in your pocket/wallet/bank at this very moment?

[slocar]

Buy a cheap e36 and drive that for a few years and then move on when you KNOW you have the skills needed to drive something much much faster ... trust me, you don't have the skills to handle a 400 hp car; nobody does at that age unless you started racing karts at 5 years old.

You'll get the urge to drive it fast and trust me, things happen much faster when you have that much power propelling you along ... last thing I want to read is a post from one of your parents saying you are no more, and I've seen it happen on this very forum.

ps. I consider myself (and always have) a very good driver ... and I've crashed my fair share of cars. You know why? Because I was dumb and young and thought I was invincible.

[douby100]

I just got my very first car ('99 Z3 Roadster 2.3) and i adore it! I would advise that you look at the cost of replacement parts and fancy bits and keep that in mind, I, like the member before, have also spent more on it and it is still not perfect. Getting there though but still needs more spent. You might also want to check for "quirks" that are unique to each model you are considering and check for "fixes" and costs of said fixes.....like saggy glove box for example (yes mine has that and a quirk with seat belt guiders breaking - who would have thought two bits of plastic would cost so much!) Just helps to round out your projected spending or make it easier to have a clearer picture of maintenance costs.

[RocketSurgeon]

Bmw makes a truly amazing car, and I really enjoy mine. These cars are great for enthusiasts like you and I, but keep in mind that they are maintenance intensive and expensive to maintain. I purchased my car (2000 540i) for $4800, it was my second car as I am now 20. In the 4 months that I've owned it, I've put nearly $2k into it doing all of the work myself including a transmission rebuild. Had I not done everything myself these repairs would be eight to ten thousand dollars. These cars are amazing to drive, but they are expensive to maintain, and cost prohibitive if you don't do the work yourself. That being said, don't let that scare you away. Keep in mind that these cars are rear wheel drive, so traction in the snow or wet can be an issue depending on where you live. If you do opt for a BMW stay with something making under 200hp. Being a good driver helps, but you really need experience to handle something more powerful. There is nothing wrong with starting out with a 328 or 323, they are great cars and plenty of fun. I've been at 100+ in a 323 and can tell you that they get there before you know it, and they can break traction pretty easy even with pirellis. You can always upgrade in a year or 2, but start with something less powerful. During your first few years of driving you will make mistakes, everyone does. I spent my first 4 years in an old ford, my current car would have been way too much to handle as a new driver. That is the reason why I have a clean driving record. A high performance car can get away from you faster than you'll know what happened. I've watched e46 m3s spin out and crash in dry conditions. Stay clear of the M's for now, the 328 or 323 would be a great starting car with plenty of fun and performance to keep you entertained. The 3 is very safe, handles very well, and is a nice size to start with. They are also pretty reliable, and the repairs aren't too bad.

[crackerjack1000]

I can also relate I was in your shoes 2 years ago, making threads just like this. I got an E39 at the time which later was totaled now I'm with a newer and more amazing E90.

All I can say is, BMW will not disappoint, but money will be very, very tight. Don't think that maintenance thing's won't happen to you for a while. I just got the E90, and already the car needs ~3k of work.. Keep in mind I still have maintenance warranty and the car is CPO, yet they don't cover the thing's that need to be fixed. Oh haha and after I fix the thing's that need fixing soon, I have to worry about a whistle noise coming from the cabin, and I think I might need a new steering rack. ...Baby steps.

Sure an older BMW will cost less for upkeep, but not too big of a difference.

But to be honest with you the only reason I can afford this car is because I make decent money part time as a student. Making about $1500 every month. But also at the same time I don't have to worry about rent or anything just my car. If I could go back in time I would have never gotten a BMW, as much as I love them I think it's the type of car you should buy when you know you can afford it. Because I find myself working so much to the point that I don't get time to enjoy her.

Just my 2 Cents, It's all up to you but keep what I said in mind.

[humorous]

if you really like that, you may own one.
that does not matter if you can afford it.

[ross1]

The cars on your list are all at least 10 years old, complicated even in base form plus the ///M models tend to live hard lives. Purchase price is just the beginning, expect significant upkeep, especially if you buy a "bargain" car.
These are also both very capable cars, well beyond the abilities of most experienced drivers and certainly capable of getting a new driver in a world of trouble fast, hence the insurance rates.
Lots of these cars meet their end at the hands of folks as yourself, sometimes taking the owner with.
My advice; get your feet wet with something less fancy.

[thejlevie]

The lower priced 10'ish year old cars typically need quite a bit of maintenance work done on them as soon as you get it. Like a complete cooling system and a full suspension rebuild. If you do the work yourself, plan on $2000-3000 in parts. Then factor in insurance and about $1500 each year in maintenance. If you can afford that, fine.

There is some wisdom here with regards to a powerful first car. It may not be the best choice until you have five or more years of seat time. It will be a plus to have done a car control clinic and a bunch of track days in a lower powered car before you move into an M.

[FastJohn]

Example on maintenance: about three weeks ago, I bought a 2000 E39: 540 with six speed, 138k miles. It has seen adequate but not enthusiast level maintenance:cooling system overhauled (or so I thought), front suspension bushings replaced, but VANOS not overhauled. Picked it up cheap ($4500) because it had a dent in the left rear door, and the PO wanted a jeep (philistine!). Here is a breakdown on costs in the first three weeks:

Bodywork will be about $1500 or so. I can put that aside for the moment. Can't put the mechanical stuff aside.

VANOS needs an overhaul, that's about a hundred bucks for seals, and a fairly intense weekend of knuckle banging to get to the VANOS units. If I paid the dealer? It would be $1k for two overhauled VANOS units, and at least another $1k in labor to get them installed. Get the seals, wait for the weather to improve - that's not a task to take on in an unheated garage, when it's 30 degrees outside.

New headlights... left side igniter failed, plus both are leaking water and the aimers are broken. Cost? $900+ to Umnitza for upscale DJ Auto angel eyes with new bulbs and ballasts, with me doing the work. If I had to pay the dealer, the cost would be over $2k.

And, last week, it blew a heater hose. $100 to Pelican for a new set of hoses, plus a code reader that I figure I will be needing, total bill came to around $250. I did check with the local dealer, they wanted $90 for just one hose. If I had to pay the dealer to fix that, it would have been around $1k to replace all of the old heater hoses.

So, after three weeks of ownership, I've already racked up around $1200 in parts. If I had to pay the dealer to fix all of that, I'd be looking at $5k+.

And that's pretty typical, actually it's somewhat mild for an E39 with that sort of miles on it. The M series are even more expensive on maintenance.

Just for grins, I drove the E39 to see a friend who is a real BMW fanatic. As I stop at his house, I see his 86 635CSi, beautiful car, sitting in the driveway with smoke coming out of the inside. The heater motor just incinerated itself. It's not just the E39 that can need work.

So, if you're mechanically inclined, know how to research a problem online, and have a few $K socked away after you buy the car, you can probably get into an E36, E39, or E46 and keep it going.

But, if you deplete your cash reserves to get an M3 or M5, and can't handle major repairs yourself, I can just about guarantee that within two months, it will be parked, awaiting expensive parts and expensive labor.

[spoonerDee]

Why a 328i vs m3/m5 for the same price?

Few key notes here. Though they might cost the same to buy, anything with an M badge adds more $$$ when it comes to maintenance and parts.

Same miles, same price? Most likely the M's you are seeing have been beat on to death and will have many hidden issues.

No accidents? says who, carfax? Many ways to get around things not showing up. Never trust it till you have it inspected.

Your what 16-17 years old? Get a 3 series, plenty of power to teach you how to drive and handle a RWD car and eventually earn the right for something with such power.

Everyone your age is the same and so was I. Oh I'm not like the rest, I'm responsible, I can handle it. Bull poop. You think you know, but you don't. That comes from experience.

Trust me when I say a 3 series, even a 5 series is plenty of car to have, love and enjoy.

[Kenta]

Wow, I think it's a bit too much, too soon. Start off with something more modest. Then, when the BMW comes, it'll be savored.

[thecj]

Stick with a E36 328i. It's a great car, easy to maintain, its pretty, can still take your friends around in it, and that straight 6 still has plenty of power to have fun with. If you are able to master your 328, then start looking for something a little more powerful, that is if you want a new car. I think most people wreck their first car, so how sad would you be if you lost an M car. I know I'd be pissed.




Trust me when I say a 3 series, even a 5 series is plenty of car to have, love and enjoy.

I know for fact that my 540i would be way too much car for a 16 year old. 282 horse power is a lot, and not to mention, this is your first car. Stick to the 328.

[MrNick]

Wow guys, thanks for all the awesome and helpful responses.

Ok, so I read many good reasons not to buy an M car. And now that I think of it, I don't know what I was thinking. After touch-ups, maintenance, and especially insurance, I definitely would not be able to afford it. And it really isn't much of a "beginner" car (as much as I hate saying I'm a beginner).

So I have 13K to spend in total for a car. Pretty good for a first car, eh? So I am probably going to buy something in the $9000-$10,000 range so I can have a few thousand left over for maintenance and insurance or part of insurance; depending on how convincing I am ;) I will definitely be upgrading my car too (more in the future) so save up some money for that!

Any thoughts? I am pretty into 3 series, I really don't want a 5... I do not want a convertible and I want a manual (of course!) and I also prefer a 2 door. Do you prefer e36 or e46? I still have research to do.

[damonchoy]

Honestly, I'd buy the best possible non-M E36 you can. You will likely spend less than even your $9,000-$10,000 range.

This way, you will have plenty of money left over to even further perfect the vehicle. I could only dream of having $5,000+ in the bank right now to modify my car. AC Schnitzers, new lighting, new front bumper, new side skirts, new exhaust, new seats, etc. are all things that I'd love to have but can't spend money on right now! If I were in your situation, that's what I would do.

I would rather have an E36 that's modified to my liking than an E46 that still has a ton of stuff that I'd like to do to it.

[MrNick]

Interesting thought, it would be nice to be able to get upgrades like that. Does anyone know how reliable the e36's are to e46's? Would it be right to assume the maintenance on an e46, since it is newer, will be cheaper and be needed less often? Or am I totally off?

[thejlevie]

The necessary maintenance, once purchased, is all a function of mileage and past history.

[MrNick]

Ok so pretty much the nicer condition, the better. So i guess reliability is about same. Thanks.

[pizzaman09]

For that money it is hard to go wrong with an e36, e46, or e39 with a 6 cylinder engine. All 3 cars would in my opinion make good beginners cars, even though the 0-60 time would be in the 8-9second range. That is certainly fast enough, there really is no time in a car where quicker acceleration is needed if you are driving responsibly.

Heck, if you want to be baller, a very very nice e38 740 is even in your price range. I know most people would try to scare you away from an e38, and it is a lot of car to handle, plenty of speed, but is is also very safe. It would teach you how to park properly since they are big. And it is a car that a lot of people seem to want to own for a life time if they can.

[MrNick]

Currently I am looking around at e36 328is and e46 328 and 330 models.

[z3540i]

E36 318is...m44 5 speed Perfect first car.
Cheapest to buy
Cheapest to insure
Cheapest to fix
Cheapest on gas
Great learning car

All of the above are what's needed for the first 1.5-2 years of driving in my opinion

[323i E30]

E36 318is...m44 5 speed Perfect first car.
Cheapest to buy
Cheapest to insure
Cheapest to fix
Cheapest on gas
Great learning car

All of the above are what's needed for the first 1.5-2 years of driving in my opinion

+1
...and take a few turns through the snow at lower speed before taking a few turns through the rain at high speed with your foot on the gas... :D

[spoonerDee]

Stick with a E36 328i. It's a great car, easy to maintain, its pretty, can still take your friends around in it, and that straight 6 still has plenty of power to have fun with. If you are able to master your 328, then start looking for something a little more powerful, that is if you want a new car. I think most people wreck their first car, so how sad would you be if you lost an M car. I know I'd be pissed.



I know for fact that my 540i would be way too much car for a 16 year old. 282 horse power is a lot, and not to mention, this is your first car. Stick to the 328.

I was thinking 528 or 530, never the 540.

Having owned both an e36 and e46 I 100% prefer the e46. Reliability wise, they are almost exactly the same as in they suffer from the same things. Watch out for early years e46's (99-01) as they have issues with the rear subframe tearing. For you I would say late model e36 or 02-03 e46.

As you said, stay well below your budget, find a nice well maintained one and keep the extra dough to put towards up coming maintenance. Cooling system, brakes, tune up etc.

[RocketSurgeon]

Like several other people have said, I think the e36 or e46 are your best bets. Because these cars are expensive to maintain, and any used car generally needs repairs right off the bat, don't spend your whole budget on the car. I would set a limit of around $7k so that you have money left for the inevitable costly repairs. You'll probably want to do a few cosmetic mods too like lights and angel eyes, so it's nice to have that option. Additionally since it is your first car, it is more likely to be in an accident, so you don't want anything super nice. You can always upgrade later. I'm pretty familiar with the e46, and can tell you that they are very impressive cars. The 323i with a manual is a pretty sweet car, as is the 328i. Both of those are plenty fast, I wouldn't start with much more than that.

[bayerische]

I don't have experience like many of you guys with 15+ years of driving experience
:rofl

[MrNick]

Thanks guys, it is pretty much down to the e36 328, e46 328, and e46 330. What do you guys think about the 330? Is that a little bit too much for a first?

[thecj]

If you were to get an E46 I would get the 330, just because I liked the engine and the way it felt on the road. It may be easier to find the 328 with a manual gear box though and that makes the car that much more fun. I would just drive them all and think which car would you be happy with when the day is done. For me I know that my E39 gives me that aww moment when I get off work and I look at my car. Just find the one that does that for you.

[RocketSurgeon]

The 330i would be pretty powerful for a beginner car. The fact that it makes over 200hp and over 200 pound feet of torque in a rear wheel package doesn't make it a good beginner car. They are amazing cars, that straight 6 is hard to beat. The problem is that's a lot of power, and it would be easy to get in over your head. The 330i would be doable, but there are much better options. It's like learning to ride a motorcycle on a 600 sport bike rather than something reasonable like a 250.

I don't mean to insult your skills, but I've known people who were killed by high performance cars. The time for powerful cars is after you learn the basics in something more forgiving.

[BavMoWo]

Wow, I didn't even have enough money for an E46 when I bought my second car, much less my first :stickoutt That must be why I spent a good 40 hours under the car doing necessary repairs this Christmas break, haha. I envy you.

I can concur with the others I've read: Start out with a cheaper initial cost so you'll have money to sink into the car later. Believe me, those costs add up FAST, considering how dishonest PO's are these days. Better to just be prepared! You'll also most likely have cheaper insurance on an E36 as well, considering it's older and less valuable.

As for power, meh, that's sort of up to you to evaluate. The question would be, what did you learn to drive on? For myself, I learned how to drive using a 1999 Dodge Caravan and a 2003 Ford Taurus, and I learned stick on a 1993 Explorer. Consequently, when I bought my 1995 Ford Probe GT (V6, pushing I think almost 170 hp in FWD with a 5 speed. Nothing too crazy.), that thing felt like a 'vette when I first got behind the wheel for the test drive :stickoutt It was much lighter and "peppier" than the cars I had driven thus far. But after a few months, that was normal, and by the time I sold it the thing felt slow. So like I said, it depends on what you learned on. If you learned on a family sedan like most of us did, then ok, you should probably stick below the 200 hp range (looking at sports/sporty cars, that is. Trucks and such are different.). But if you learned on a Z06, well... :stickoutt If you do decide to go with something on the fast side, just write yourself a note to take it easy for the first year while you adjust to the new whip :) It's never a good idea to push a new-to-you car right out of the gate anyway, since you need to get used to how the chassis rolls and such. It took me a couple months before I could push the E30 around corners like I did the Probe, but now it feels just as natural as the Probe did.

[Club Car]

First time I bought a quick car back in 2006 I quickly learned that I needed to be on the brakes sooner when coming to a stop, turn etc lol.

[driftE36guy]

I would like to mention a few points. Are you mechanically inclined? I personally started off with cheap BMWs because i did not have the budget that you do. Needless to say..... I am not afraid to get my hands dirty. On my first BMW I most definitely caused more damage than I fixed. I broke and lost parts and did not have the patience to understand the car. I started with a 1985 735i automatic and rusty $1000. That was replaced months later by a red 1986 635csi $2750 ebay. A year later I added a 1993 325is stickshift $3700 to my driveway and drove it hard and fixed it often. This is all happening when i was in high school in 2007-8. Pull the door panels off a few times and try to align the sunroof, lol. Practice ordering tiny little clips and retainers and screws. Learn the car's weak points. Trust me, you will be better off saving on insurance and gas for a few years, and then being able to buy and maintain a Nicer bmw than what you can already afford. Plus the track WILL require you to do mods and make repairs so you will have to be ready for that. AlSo..... An M3 in equivalent condition to a regular e36 is almost ALWAYS MORE EXPENSIVE. I dont know where you are looking but in NY M///s are a hot commodity. Maybe you don't have an unhealthy obsession with bmw like i do, in which case you can disregard the above statements. Either way, welcome to the family!

[gbreeE90]

Get a M car if you have the means, but know that you will likely be repairing a lot of things on a car of that age. Regarding the power, just don't be stupid with it and you will be fine. I was driving a 420 whp car when I was 17 and I never got in a wreck or got a ticket. If you honestly feel that you are mature enough to handle it, go for it.


The 330i would be pretty powerful for a beginner car.

That car is pretty slow compared to todays standards. For reference, the E46 330i ZHP runs .3 faster than a stock ford f-150 in the 1/4.

[thecj]

That car is pretty slow compared to todays standards. For reference, the E46 330i ZHP runs .3 faster than a stock ford f-150 in the 1/4.

Are you sure you are talking about a stock F150? with the v6, no power and terrible 5 speed manual with no towing capacity? I have driven the basic model as I won it in a raffle. The first thing I did was trade it in a go by an E38 and had cash left over :).

[MikeUSMC]

Are you sure you are talking about a stock F150? with the v6, no power and terrible 5 speed manual with no towing capacity? I have driven the basic model as I won it in a raffle. The first thing I did was trade it in a go by an E38 and had cash left over :).

I bought a sport model F150 just like what you explained. 2003. I miss that truck all the time. Not because of performance, but because I loved everything else about that truck. And now I have a 94 EB Bronco, which is the exact opposite of that truck lol.

[forthewinwin]

I think (depending on the exact car you get of course) some will tell you to not get something like a M5 for a first car because of maintenance costs.

A friend of mine has a buddy who bought a e46 M3 as his first car a while ago... wasn't too mechanically inclined. Up to now he's spent thousands paying shops for upkeep (and it also happened to coincidentally, be a lemon)