I wanted to like the F30...

[grahamggg]

I took my E90 into the dealer for service the other day, and was excited to get a 2013 328i as a loaner car for a couple of days. I will say that the car looks better than the E90 (even though there is a strange line across the hood where the hood ends), and I'm happy with the addition of an oil temp gauge, but I'm afraid that's where the list of improvements ends in my opinion. Unfortunately, I was disappointed by several notable downgrades from the E90...

One of the first downgrades I noticed was the noticabely lesser quality of the turn signal/wiper controls, as well as the relocation of the cruise control controls to the steering wheel...I really like the separate stalk for these controls. The idrive screen is also pretty hoaky...

As I began driving (with the car in comfort mode), I noticed that the steering and the overall feel of the car felt like it was from a ford fusion. Only in sport mode does the car feel somewhat like a BMW...although still the car feels more like a 5 series than a 3 series (the car is only a couple inches shorter than a e39...). Also, the automatic start-stop feature makes it feel like I'm driving a clunker (maybe it's better in the 6 cylinder?)...I immediately shut it off.

I opened the trunk to put something in, and noticed that the normally unintrusive BMW gas-articulated trunk hinges have been replaced with cheapo plastic gooseneck hinges...

Also, the LED lighting from the E90 has been downgraded to traditional bulbs...

These noticeable downgrades are uncharacteristic of BMW and they have me a little worried. It's fine to try to cut costs, but they can at least try to do it in a way the driver won't notice.

Now I'm left wondering what I will eventually replace my E90 with...maybe a 1 series when the time comes.

Let the flames ignite...

[mryakan]

1st of all a loaner is usually a stripped car, the base e90 did not have all the nice additions you are used to (LEDs, etc), at least not at launch. Many standard equipment was added with the LCI as I am sure they would do with the F30. It does not make sense to drop the base price of a car, so BMW upgrades the standard equipment as the car ages in its life cycle. Equip the F30 properly and you may have a different opinion.
I have not driven the car yet, so not sure about the handling dynamics, but it could be that the loaner did not have the sports suspension and yours does. Also different tires make a huge impact on handling dynamics and loaners typically have all season tires.
If you want to do a true apples to apples comparison, go test drive an F30 that is as closely equipped to your car as possible, otherwise you are making a biased judgement.
Oh, and as for interior quality, from the limited time I've been in the cabin in the showroom, I noticed it seemed of higher quality. The rest of your complaints are just personal preference, you are just to used to your e90 and sometimes it is hard to get used to something different (e.g. cruise, iDrive, etc). However, with time, one may realize that the new style is actually better (or maybe not, I'll hold my judgement for now).

[grahamggg]

The only options my E90 has are the sunroof, rear window shades, and parking sensors...no sport anything.

I forgot one thing...go open the center console in an E90, then go open one in an F30 and tell me it is of higher quality.

All I'm saying is, it seems (to me) like the F30 is not much of an upgrade from the E90, if any upgrade at all.

It'd be interesting to hear from some people that have driven both cars.

For now, I must agree with a quote from Car and Driver magazine... "We're convinced that the E90 would handily win a comparison test against the F30."

[Jamesons Viggen]

I have had bad experiences with E90 loaners as base cars, same for the F30. It does not present itself well.

Also, COMFORT is there for a reason. Judge the car in Sport, as that is where the BMW DNA shows through.

My car has LED lighting, I thought that was standard.

I truly would like to see a magazine comparison between F30 and E90. Most magazine tests you have seen are on all season-low rolling resistance tires. Even 335 tests have been on 225's. The non M-Sport cars(all that's been tested so far) have low dust pads with less bite, combine that with the less aggressive tires and it's not a good way to show what the F30 can do. Meanwhile, in the most recent head to head test with an E90, it had 255's, a proper performance tire too.

If tit for tat the E90 puts up better numbers, great. But I have yet to see a fair testing to know what the platform is capable of. The M-Sport, new for '13 at least has proper tires and better brake pads.

Engine wise, besides SOUND, it's no contest. The 0-60, 0-100, 1/4, traps, 30-50-50-70 times are very much stronger in the N20 328.


1st of all a loaner is usually a stripped car, the base e90 did not have all the nice additions you are used to (LEDs, etc), at least not at launch. Many standard equipment was added with the LCI as I am sure they would do with the F30. It does not make sense to drop the base price of a car, so BMW upgrades the standard equipment as the car ages in its life cycle. Equip the F30 properly and you may have a different opinion.
I have not driven the car yet, so not sure about the handling dynamics, but it could be that the loaner did not have the sports suspension and yours does. Also different tires make a huge impact on handling dynamics and loaners typically have all season tires.
If you want to do a true apples to apples comparison, go test drive an F30 that is as closely equipped to your car as possible, otherwise you are making a biased judgement.
Oh, and as for interior quality, from the limited time I've been in the cabin in the showroom, I noticed it seemed of higher quality. The rest of your complaints are just personal preference, you are just to used to your e90 and sometimes it is hard to get used to something different (e.g. cruise, iDrive, etc). However, with time, one may realize that the new style is actually better (or maybe not, I'll hold my judgement for now).

Dead on to my usual rant. :redspot

[mryakan]

All I'm saying is, it seems (to me) like the F30 is not much of an upgrade from the E90, if any upgrade at all.
Funny, I heard this exact line way back in 2006 from a guy who owned an e46 330 when he test drove the e90. It was a rubbish comment of course. Having been in many e46s, the e90 is better in every possible way. But snobs will snob.

[Georgere]

Actually if we consider windshield wiper arms, pre-lci e90 had very expensive looking ones. None of 3ers ever had the type original e90 did. Also in LCI models they removed a few things and the most expensive item was sun roof.

Btw, I ve seen quite a few f30's on the road, parking lot, and showroom, and do agree with OP that improvements are minimal over e90. and while I haven't driven one yet, lots of reviews seem to not like it that much.
Looking forward to f32 and its GT version perhaps it will now become what the 3er used to be. And if not, ATS seems to be promising.

[Dingers328]

A list of more niticeable differences E90 v. F30.
My last car was a E90 coupe.

My E90 had a solid-heavy feel. It felt safe inside.
Steering was very tight. I'm certain coupes had a more sport like feeling than sedans.
The front turn signal were LED.
The transmission was a 6-speed.
City driving produced average 16 miles per gallon.
335i MSport had 19" alloys with run flat tires. I felt a lot of road jar through the drivetrain.


My F30 (335i) Sportline is much lighter.
The engine compartment sheet metal has an unfinished and less refined look.
Yes, the steering feels much lighter and the overall driving feels similar to a Honda Accord. But I like it in the city. At highway speed it's a joy.
The interior is plastic and box-like.
The Navigation screen sits unprotected, awkwardly atop the dash.
Front turn signal lamps appear to be filament.
Transmission is 8 speed.
Mileage is 22mpg average in the city.
No Folding rear seat standard in 2012.
I was happy to find 18" wheels with 225' tires. For city driving, the combination yields a softer ride, more longevity and lower replacement cost.
The AMS deprogramming is just an appointment away!


Regardless, BMW is complying with fuel consumption laws and the F30 is lighter and more fuel efficient. I really grew to like the car driving numerous loaners.
My choice, 335. I like the extra power! The car overall, is a joy to drive.

The '12 E90 felt like a holdover weight and technology wise. Although there are quality differences to cut weight and cost, I have seen the same product quality in other brands.

My .02

[Bayerische415]

I've been driving a 2013 328i xDrive since December 14th - premium, cold weather. My previous car was a 2007 328i also with premium and cold weather. I bought the '07 certified about 2.5 years ago.

I was thoroughly unhappy with the '07 in winter weather - this was the catalyst for my interest in getting a different car. I originally set out to get another certified pre-owned car, but as it was mid December my BMW advisor was able to work some magic for me on the F30.

I much prefer the exterior look of the F30 over the e90, but, unfortunately, that might be where the love of it ends. Before I go on, I want to publicly say that in my opinion, even a less than stellar model change for BMW will be a better car than the most spectacular model change in any other brand.

I HATE the way this 4-cyl. sounds. I truly miss the refined roar of my e90. Granted the F30 feels more powerful, I would sacrifice a little of that power just to have that e90 sound back. Actually, when I put the pedal to the floor, the F30 is horrible, however typical acceleration is. I don't notice much improved gas mileage. I was 21-23 during weekly commute with my e90, and I'm averaging 21-23 with the F30. I haven't had any kind of distance experience with the F30 yet to be able to compare that.

I agree with those people who don't love the new steering feel. My parents are Cadillac people, and the F30 feels similar to my mother's Cadillac - I hate to say that, and I would never admit that anywhere but here!!! I can't honestly say that I notice any of that difference at higher speeds. Also, the steering feel changes a bit - even around town - in sport mode, but who wants to drive constantly in sport mode? I loved the heavy feel of the e90. The e90 felt heavy/quality but still was completely agile. The F30 feels hollow to me.

As far as the F30 interior goes, I probably like it better than the e90. It definitely feels updated from the e90, but still remains true to the clean lines and simplicity of BMW. I hope BMW never feels it has to look like a Cadillac on the inside, with all the shiny chrome, and hundreds of buttons, and complex looking dash molding. My only complaint in the F30 interior comes as a direct result of the increased width of the car. My left arm doesn't naturally hit the driver door arm rest. The driver door arm rest fades away too quickly to be of much use to me. I've had the car for almost a month and am still fiddling with seat position. The iDrive screen doesn't bother me. I've set my first preset button to shut the screen off. If I have no use for the screen while driving, I tap that first button and it goes black and then I don't even notice it. Ultimately, the increased size is appreciated. My job dictates that I have 1-2 additional people in my car at least once a week. I also have my niece, still in a car seat, one or two Sundays a month. One of the things I really miss from my e90 interior is the electrical outlet hidden in the center console. It was much more convenient for phone charging.

The F30 ride is better, and even with improved ride, at my level of skill I don't notice a decrease in agility or response.

I am a true believer BMW fan. As I said before, I will take this less than stellar BMW model change over any other car - any day. And while we, as BMW people, are a little disappointed (because BMW has again and again impressed us), this car is better than the Cadillac ATS, better than the Lexus is250, and CERTAINLY better than the Mercedes C-Class. I think I've said enough!!!

[grahamggg]

Thanks everyone for the input.


Funny, I heard this exact line way back in 2006 from a guy who owned an e46 330 when he test drove the e90. It was a rubbish comment of course.

Yes I agree that is a rubbish comment, but I am talking about the F30.


Although there are quality differences to cut weight and cost, I have seen the same product quality in other brands.

My .02

These quality differences are what I am concerned about, you did not see the same cost cutting attempts 5 or 6 years ago on BMWs, or at least they were not as obvious to the driver as with the F30...but such are the times I guess.

[mryakan]

T
These quality differences are what I am concerned about, you did not see the same cost cutting attempts 5 or 6 years ago on BMWs, or at least they were not as obvious to the driver as with the F30...but such are the times I guess.
This is where you are mistaken. BMW has always done cost cutting by stripping cars down and moving upgraded options into packages (e.g. LED lighting, dimming mirrors, BT, sunroof, etc). They have been doing it forever, at least since the e36 days in the 90s to my recollection. It all depends on the market and the currency exchange. When the US dollar was strong, the base e90 was loaded and the price was set. A couple of years later, the dollar took a tumble and since it does not make sense to increase the base price, they started stripping options. Then they added some back with the LCI since some costs went down. Here in Canada for example, the dollar was doing better and we ended up with more options on the base LCI than on the pre-LCI for the same money. In fact, I paid almost the same for my 328 with a dozen or so more standard options vs my pre-LCI 323.
With the US dollar still relatively weak compared to the Euro, I am not surprised BMW stripped the base F30 to keep the price down. The loaner you had probably was not even one of the lines (yeah they sell base cars without a Sport/Luxury/Modern line package). Equip them similarly then compare. Of course, the F30 will cost more, but you are getting more anyway (standard iDrive, more powerful engine, roomier car, tons of efficientDynamics options etc). It does not handle the same, no 2 generations ever did nor will they probably ever do. Different does not necessarily mean worse though. Every change takes some getting used to. Some people still claim the e30 is the best BMW 3er, and while in some aspect it is, the newer cars are better in more ways than not.

[mryakan]

but who wants to drive constantly in sport mode?
Why not? You want a sporty car/response, drive it in sports mode. The other modes are there to appease those who complain about the harsh ride, etc. If you want the old BMW feel, or close to it, keep it in Sports mode. If you want fuel economy, comfort, and a smoother ride, put it in the Comfort/eco mode. BMW did a great job to give you both options in the same car, unfortunately, you cannot have both at the same time as that is not possible. Sport and comfort usually do not go hand in hand.

[grahamggg]

This is where you are mistaken. BMW has always done cost cutting by stripping cars down and moving upgraded options into packages (e.g. LED lighting, dimming mirrors, BT, sunroof, etc). They have been doing it forever, at least since the e36 days in the 90s to my recollection. It all depends on the market and the currency exchange. When the US dollar was strong, the base e90 was loaded and the price was set. A couple of years later, the dollar took a tumble and since it does not make sense to increase the base price, they started stripping options. Then they added some back with the LCI since some costs went down. Here in Canada for example, the dollar was doing better and we ended up with more options on the base LCI than on the pre-LCI for the same money. In fact, I paid almost the same for my 328 with a dozen or so more standard options vs my pre-LCI 323.
With the US dollar still relatively weak compared to the Euro, I am not surprised BMW stripped the base F30 to keep the price down. The loaner you had probably was not even one of the lines (yeah they sell base cars without a Sport/Luxury/Modern line package). Equip them similarly then compare. Of course, the F30 will cost more, but you are getting more anyway (standard iDrive, more powerful engine, roomier car, tons of efficientDynamics options etc). It does not handle the same, no 2 generations ever did nor will they probably ever do. Different does not necessarily mean worse though. Every change takes some getting used to. Some people still claim the e30 is the best BMW 3er, and while in some aspect it is, the newer cars are better in more ways than not.

While I agree with what you are saying, I guess I should have been more clear. I could care less about options...as I said, my car has almost none. What option package can I purchase that replaces the cheapo plastic gooseneck trunk hinges with proper ones? What package can I purchase that gives me a solid center console latch instead of a cheapo press-fit one? What option can I purchase that upgrades the wiper and turn signal controls so they don't feel like they were made in the same plant that makes McDonalds happy meal toys?

But I suppose, as you're saying, that these downgrades must be made to make way for the improvements such as idrive etc...

[Jamesons Viggen]

I've been driving a 2013 328i xDrive since December 14th - premium, cold weather. My previous car was a 2007 328i also with premium and cold weather. I bought the '07 certified about 2.5 years ago.

I was thoroughly unhappy with the '07 in winter weather - this was the catalyst for my interest in getting a different car. I originally set out to get another certified pre-owned car, but as it was mid December my BMW advisor was able to work some magic for me on the F30.

I much prefer the exterior look of the F30 over the e90, but, unfortunately, that might be where the love of it ends. Before I go on, I want to publicly say that in my opinion, even a less than stellar model change for BMW will be a better car than the most spectacular model change in any other brand.

I HATE the way this 4-cyl. sounds. I truly miss the refined roar of my e90. Granted the F30 feels more powerful, I would sacrifice a little of that power just to have that e90 sound back. Actually, when I put the pedal to the floor, the F30 is horrible, however typical acceleration is. I don't notice much improved gas mileage. I was 21-23 during weekly commute with my e90, and I'm averaging 21-23 with the F30. I haven't had any kind of distance experience with the F30 yet to be able to compare that.

I agree with those people who don't love the new steering feel. My parents are Cadillac people, and the F30 feels similar to my mother's Cadillac - I hate to say that, and I would never admit that anywhere but here!!! I can't honestly say that I notice any of that difference at higher speeds. Also, the steering feel changes a bit - even around town - in sport mode, but who wants to drive constantly in sport mode? I loved the heavy feel of the e90. The e90 felt heavy/quality but still was completely agile. The F30 feels hollow to me.

As far as the F30 interior goes, I probably like it better than the e90. It definitely feels updated from the e90, but still remains true to the clean lines and simplicity of BMW. I hope BMW never feels it has to look like a Cadillac on the inside, with all the shiny chrome, and hundreds of buttons, and complex looking dash molding. My only complaint in the F30 interior comes as a direct result of the increased width of the car. My left arm doesn't naturally hit the driver door arm rest. The driver door arm rest fades away too quickly to be of much use to me. I've had the car for almost a month and am still fiddling with seat position. The iDrive screen doesn't bother me. I've set my first preset button to shut the screen off. If I have no use for the screen while driving, I tap that first button and it goes black and then I don't even notice it. Ultimately, the increased size is appreciated. My job dictates that I have 1-2 additional people in my car at least once a week. I also have my niece, still in a car seat, one or two Sundays a month. One of the things I really miss from my e90 interior is the electrical outlet hidden in the center console. It was much more convenient for phone charging.

The F30 ride is better, and even with improved ride, at my level of skill I don't notice a decrease in agility or response.

I am a true believer BMW fan. As I said before, I will take this less than stellar BMW model change over any other car - any day. And while we, as BMW people, are a little disappointed (because BMW has again and again impressed us), this car is better than the Cadillac ATS, better than the Lexus is250, and CERTAINLY better than the Mercedes C-Class. I think I've said enough!!!


An exhaust really gives the sound a noticeable upgrade.

Plenty of aftermarket options now. If you want to stay BMW, the BMW performance muffler will be about $900.

[mryakan]

While I agree with what you are saying, I guess I should have been more clear. I could care less about options...as I said, my car has almost none. What option package can I purchase that replaces the cheapo plastic gooseneck trunk hinges with proper ones? What package can I purchase that gives me a solid center console latch instead of a cheapo press-fit one? What option can I purchase that upgrades the wiper and turn signal controls so they don't feel like they were made in the same plant that makes McDonalds happy meal toys?

But I suppose, as you're saying, that these downgrades must be made to make way for the improvements such as idrive etc...
Ok, I have not looked that closely at those parts to agree or disagree with you. But assuming you are absolutely correct, are those few minor things reason enough to not like the F30 or say it is worse than the 90 overall :confused? I have a feeling not unless you are trying to find an excuse to not upgrade, which is fine, no shame in liking an older car and wanting to stick with it. I hung on to my e36 for 10 years and skipped the e46 altogether.

[jsedlak]

My car has LED lighting, I thought that was standard.

The tails aren't LEDs.

I don't care about any of the "downgrades." Comfort mode is great for driving around with people in the car or for lazy morning drives. Turn signal feel is very nice compared to my E46. iDrive is hokey, but whatever... they need to do a total overhaul of that interface. The trunk opens and closes... yay!

And oh god... the sound of my M-sport exhaust :alright :redspot

And the car looks so mean compared to an E90/E92. It looks as mean as the E92 M3, if not meaner! The chopped nose is just so perfect for the car.

[mryakan]

The tails aren't LEDs.

Those are LEDs in fact. Just like on all e90s, those horizontal tubes in the taillights are LED lit.

[jsedlak]

Those are LEDs in fact. Just like on all e90s, those horizontal tubes in the taillights are LED lit.

But the brake lights themselves?

The only thing this car lacks is an optional LSD.

[New Car Smell]

The actual brake lights (and front turn signals) are not LED. Wish they were though.

[jsedlak]

The actual brake lights (and front turn signals) are not LED. Wish they were though.

That's what I thought, and was referring to.

I believe most of the others are LED though... at least the interior lights seem to be LED. Not sure, I don't pay attention to that stuff too often. Too busy trying to figure out if I can actually shift fast enough at WOT from 1st to 2nd.

[mryakan]

The brake/signal lights were not LEDs on the e46 and e90 pre-LCIs either, BMW seems to save that for the LCI rehash. Seems they are following the same approach even with the F30.

[Dingers328]

Great thread!

[Jamesons Viggen]

But the brake lights themselves?

The only thing this car lacks is an optional LSD.

I wish for an LSD too, but it seems for a long time now BMW has kept LSDs out of non M cars.

[mryakan]

I wish for an LSD too, but it seems for a long time now BMW has kept LSDs out of non M cars.

True, since the thinking is that for the masses, the e-diff (or other electronic measures) suffice. Been like that on the 3 series since 95 /96IIRC. Before ASC-T, LSD was even an option on the lowly 318ti.

[jsedlak]

The brake/signal lights were not LEDs on the e46 and e90 pre-LCIs either, BMW seems to save that for the LCI rehash. Seems they are following the same approach even with the F30.

You're right, of course. But it's still odd.

What really bugs the f**k out of me is why the 328i doesn't come standard with Xenons. I mean... wtf? Really?

[mryakan]

You're right, of course. But it's still odd.

What really bugs the f**k out of me is why the 328i doesn't come standard with Xenons. I mean... wtf? Really?
Yeah I hear you, it is cost cutting again to keep the base price competitive. Again, in Canada on the base 328 did Xenons not come standard pre-LCI, but post LCI it became standard. Not sure on the F30, I think it may be standard too. As mentioned, the Canadian dollar is doing better, so we benefit. It was the exact opposite between the US and Canada 06/07.
BMW packaging and options do not make much sense most of the time. I mean here I gotta pay 800$ for a metallic color on a 3 series, what! No thanks, I'll stick to jet black lol.
And to get BMW Apps, you gotta get a 3500$ premium package, seriously!!! At least I was told we can pay a one time 500$ fee and go the BMW Individual route and then pick and choose some options. I hope they modify the packaging structure by the time my current lease is up.

[New Car Smell]

Not sure on the F30, I think it may be standard too.The 328i "Classic" does not come with HIDs, whereas all the lines do. At least in Canada anyway.

[dynamicjoy]

im liking f30's so far, the little 4 cylinder turbo engine goes great

[amal1534]

I agree the 4 cylinder engine is great. I had one as a loaner this past weekend. It was a lot more fun to drive than I had anticipated. I was even able to sell my girlfriend on it which is hard to do considering she previously "hated" BMWs for se irrational reason.

[domyalex]

Why not? You want a sporty car/response, drive it in sports mode. The other modes are there to appease those who complain about the harsh ride, etc. If you want the old BMW feel, or close to it, keep it in Sports mode. If you want fuel economy, comfort, and a smoother ride, put it in the Comfort/eco mode. BMW did a great job to give you both options in the same car, unfortunately, you cannot have both at the same time as that is not possible. Sport and comfort usually do not go hand in hand.

No offense mryakan, but have you driven the F30? The Sport mode felt quite jerky to me.

The F30 is a good car, but it doesn't blow away the E90; I find the OP to be right on the money: some things are better, but other definitely are not, which is a bit head scratching.

[mryakan]

No offense mryakan, but have you driven the F30? The Sport mode felt quite jerky to me.

The F30 is a good car, but it doesn't blow away the E90; I find the OP to be right on the money: some things are better, but other definitely are not, which is a bit head scratching.
No offense taken as I have stated numerous times I have not test driven it yet, thus I am withholding judgement.
However, on looks and amenities alone, the F30 is a very tempting upgrade. I still don't know how I will like the 4banger, but then I had a 318ti for 10 years and loved that thing, so who knows. A 335 upgrade is tempting though just to stay with the I6 which I fell in love with with my recent 2 cars.

[Cwaters]

If you want the old BMW feel, or close to it, keep it in Sports mode. If you want fuel economy, comfort, and a smoother ride, put it in the Comfort/eco mode. BMW did a great job to give you both options in the same car, unfortunately, you cannot have both at the same time as that is not possible. Sport and comfort usually do not go hand in hand.

Gee, and here I thought that was sort of the whole point of modern BMWs...

How many car reviews have I seen that go on and on about how the 3 series cars are SO sportscar derived but also liveable on a daily commute? It's just that sort of kool-aid that got me into these cars.

[mryakan]

Gee, and here I thought that was sort of the whole point of modern BMWs...

How many car reviews have I seen that go on and on about how the 3 series cars are SO sportscar derived but also liveable on a daily commute? It's just that sort of kool-aid that got me into these cars.
Yes, but you cannot break the laws of physics. What BMW does best is give you the best of both worlds in 1 car, but do not think you can have a race car that is liveable on a daily basis by sprinkling some magic, even BMW is not that good. These cars have improved a lot on the comfort front since a lot of owners before this did not opt for the Sports Package because most of the time they were looking for a soft ride. Now they can have that and then turn on the sportiness when they want. Or those who like a sports ride and do not care much for extra comfort, can leave it in sports mode all the time. But you cannot have both at the same time. Maybe when they invent something to negate gravity then we will, but till then, you compromise one or the other.

[New Car Smell]

Well said.

[778Bimmer]

The e90 series still has the nicest exterior imho. They made the F30 look too muscle-car like. The overly aggressive angry front lights looks a bit try-hard, the headlights touching the grills look tacky too. BMW's should be subtle like it has nothing to prove, NOT like a camaro or mustang

The e92/e93 M3 is stillt he nicest 3-series out there, arguably the nicest looking BMWs.

I think I will stick with the e93 and wait for the 2014 M3 or M4, the rendered photos look sick!

[New Car Smell]

The e90 LCI...Fixed that for you. Sorry, but your pre-LCI E9X is excluded from this argument. The LCI did wonders for that generation.

[Cwaters]

My 07 328i is in the shop and I have had a 13 328i for a couple days now. Here are some first impressions:

The auto start/stop is certainly unnerving to say the least. I'm sure I'll get used to it eventually (we'll all have to if we're to have newer cars). It seems like they need to find a way to make the restart a little faster and lots smoother. Drove the guys to lunch yesterday. All expressed dismay and dislike at every stop.

The steering feel is really dreadful. Way to much assist in eco or comfort modes nad no road feel at all. It's better in sport but still not good. I expect I'd get used to it eventually but it's a significant strike against the car in a test drive. yuck.

It's taking me an unusually long time to find a comfortable driving position. not sure why. Trying to adjust the seat a smidge while driving the other night I accidently hit on of the memory buttons and the mirrors went all wonky. Thsose memory buttons were in a better place in my car.

I do like the larger wing mirrors. Mine are too small.

I've been startled a few times by the turn signal LEDs on the wing mirrors. seeing them in the corner of my eye while looking back over my shoulder and changing lanes had me thinking there's suddenly someone RIGHT THERE! I'd get used to it and they're certainly a good thing.

It does seem a little easier to see out the window over my left shoulder. My B pillar and limited range of motion make it really hard to see into the blind spot.

I'm not noticing that the interior is of better or worse quality than my 07. I did hear some squeeking going over some bumps and tracks this morning. Guess it's a real BMW then, eh?

The gague panel looks kind-of cheap. In the position I'm currently sitting in, the tops of the dials are blocked by the steering wheel. Thanks for the temp gauge. I HATE not having one in my car. The info display between the speedometer and the tach seems a little jumbled to me.. I don't know just what I dislike about it, but it's something.

I miss having the clock over on the radio display. It'll take me years to stop
looking over there.

This car has blutooth and USB delete!?! On a >$40K car? Does not compute.
It doesn't have nav either.
That being the case, I can't see the point of having idrive. Once you have the car set-up how you like it, it's just a big screen for the trip computer. I turn it off but it keeps turning back on whenever I get back in. sigh.
Still have the phone buttons on the steering wheel and idrive control panel... not sure what the answer is for that but I can not excuse having buttons that do nothing.

The engine is fine. Seems more high strung than my 6 but there's more torques when you get it going. There's not much noise in either car so that's pretty much a wash for me. It's getting about five more MsPG than my car in mixed driving so that's a plus.

There is lag though. I think it's mostly the result of the eleventy speed transmission having the switch down three or four gears to get things cooking. I think by the time that happens, the turbo is spooled and you should be hanging on.
There is a significant time between "Lets GO!" and "OK, ZOOM!". Probably better in sport mode.
That being said, the transmission is better in this car than in mine.

Is the back window smaller? I had to stop the car to put down that center head rest so I could see out the back.

Not sure what the deal is with this one but if I have my phone plugged into the aux-in and charging, there's significant noise in the system. Unplug the charger and it goes away. These are the same cables I use in my car with no problems. This is a significant problem for me since I never use the radio and very rarely use the CD player. Of course, if I had one of these, I'd have the USB input.

It rides and handles very good, as you'd expect.

Window switches in a better place than my car.

When you get to your destination, one has to remember to hit the button to turn the car off since the engine is often already off, that's kind of wierd.

I don't have the fancy headlights in my car and this one doesn't have them either. I should have thought that a car in this price bracket and five years newer would have them. I guess I'd have to price other cas and see what they have as standard equipment to know if it's a slight or not.

I guess that's about it for the first hundred miles.

[mryakan]

.


Still have the phone buttons on the steering wheel and idrive control panel... not sure what the answer is for that but I can not excuse having buttons that do nothing.
nothing new, the e90 base models were the same. BT was not standard and the non functional buttons were still there. That way if someone added the BT module after the fact, they do not need to install a new wheel to get those buttons.
Remember that you have a stripped base loaner.



I guess that's about it for the first hundred miles.
Phew,thank goodness. lol :-)

[jsedlak]

nothing new, the e90 base models were the same. BT was not standard and the non functional buttons were still there. That way if someone added the BT module after the fact, they do not need to install a new wheel to get those buttons.
Remember that you have a stripped base loaner.


Phew,thank goodness. lol :-)

BMWs have been this way for awhile actually... my E46 came pre-wired for everything. Was able to add a 6-cd changer easily...

[mryakan]

BMWs have been this way for awhile actually... my E46 came pre-wired for everything. Was able to add a 6-cd changer easily...
I know, same on my e36 all the way back in 97 :D. To think I paid 600$ for a 6 CD changer back in 98 :(.

[Cwaters]

nothing new, the e90 base models were the same. BT was not standard and the non functional buttons were still there. That way if someone added the BT module after the fact, they do not need to install a new wheel to get those buttons.
Remember that you have a stripped base loaner.


Phew,thank goodness. lol :-)

Yeah, I'm aware they've been doing that for a long time. Doesn't make it any less annoying to folks who don't have that option.

Remember this "stripped base loaner" still retails over $40K. That's a lot of scratch for most Americans.
Where else in your life would you put up with switches that do nothing but remind you you of options you don't have? Would you allow your builder to put useless light switches in your house?
I suppose there are some keys on this keyboard that don't EVER do anything.. Pause/Break comes to mind... but this was a free keyboard.:rolleyes
Obviously it's a peeve, but couldn't they, for a few more tenths of a Euro, come up with a work around?

[mryakan]

Obviously it's a peeve, but couldn't they, for a few more tenths of a Euro, come up with a work around?
Few tenth * millions != pocket change ;). Money is always an issue.
And who said BMW does not necessarily use them for upsell. :shifty

[rolltidef30]

Yeah, I'm aware they've been doing that for a long time. Doesn't make it any less annoying to folks who don't have that option.

Remember this "stripped base loaner" still retails over $40K. That's a lot of scratch for most Americans.
Where else in your life would you put up with switches that do nothing but remind you you of options you don't have? Would you allow your builder to put useless light switches in your house?
I suppose there are some keys on this keyboard that don't EVER do anything.. Pause/Break comes to mind... but this was a free keyboard.:rolleyes
Obviously it's a peeve, but couldn't they, for a few more tenths of a Euro, come up with a work around?

Basically, just get the options.

BMWs aren't for the penny pinching or value conscious. If you want practical value with sporty character, you'd buy an Acura. BMW and Porsche are known to nickel and dime the hell out of you. However, the experience of both cars make them worth it IMHO.

[Jamesons Viggen]

See a lot of E90 people starting the sentences with "The loaner I drove" which does no favors for an F30 experience in terms of impressing you compared to your E90.

My dealer is often an exception, last time they gave me a Sport 335 fully loaded. But even that, with it's skinny square all seasons(grip and braking taking a big hit) and it being a '12(they seem to have more road and wind noise than the '13's) left a little to be desired.

[Cwaters]

Basically, just get the options.

How very Bourgeois.:rolleyes
If only I'd have known it was simple as that.

[rolltidef30]

How very Bourgeois.:rolleyes
If only I'd have known it was simple as that.

How Bourgeios? Dude, we're talking about a luxury car, not a Kia or a Chevy. I loath coming on this forum and continue to read about people basically saying that they can't afford this or that in a BMW.

I'm sorry, but BMW is moving forward and not staying stuck in the mud of yesteryear. Yes, these cars cost more. Call it greed, call it inflation, but as long as people keep buying these cars, for whatever reason, be it purist driving or shallow status; BMW will continue to raise the price.

It's a car company; and like all profit driven companies, they are out to make cash. Yes, this takes advantage of a potential owners emotional connection to the car, but I put the money on the table proudly and reap all the benefits and penalties that go with owning a luxury car which in this case is my pricey, but excellent 2012 328i.

There are many more practical and affordable options out there, plus there is that most awesome 1 Series which I actually love more, but I'm 6'4. There is nothing wrong with an Acura, Caddy, or Infinity, even the C class. They are all cheaper because they are all chasing BMW.

Can't have it all my friend. When you desire the best, you're gonna pay for the pleasure. It's like dating a model.

Please take no offense, but we owners come on here to share experiences and talk about the love we have for our cars. Aspiring owners are welcome to ask questions about ownership, and get insight and advice. I love reading on here about a guy getting his first Bimmer and falling in love with it. It reminds me of my first moment of pride. I wish more could join the club.

However, no one gains from hearing people complain constantly about something that won't change; BMWs just cost a lot.

[Cwaters]

I mostly agree with you. Heck, I chose BMW for my last two cars.
I still believe that these companies sell an experience as much as they sell a physical product. I'm pretty sure they could come up with some way to eliminate the constant reminders (on the STEERING WHEEL for Pete's sake) of options you don't have and still make enough profit to satisfy their shareholders.
They could simply have blanks to go where the buttons are, for instance..
Our Nissan, for example, has no indication whatsoever of the many options available that we didn't feel the need to pay for. No fog light button, 4x4 controls, etc. It was half the price of this BMW.

I think we've about beaten this down to the ground though so, to each his own.

I got my car back today. After 170 miles in the F30, the steering feels like the fluid was replaced with molasses! Lots more cabin noise. The ride is a bit bumpier. More engine noise.
Pretty different experience, actually.

[mryakan]

I mostly agree with you. Heck, I chose BMW for my last two cars.
I still believe that these companies sell an experience as much as they sell a physical product. I'm pretty sure they could come up with some way to eliminate the constant reminders (on the STEERING WHEEL for Pete's sake) of options you don't have and still make enough profit to satisfy their shareholders.
They could simply have blanks to go where the buttons are, for instance..
Our Nissan, for example, has no indication whatsoever of the many options available that we didn't feel the need to pay for. No fog light button, 4x4 controls, etc. It was half the price of this BMW.

I think we've about beaten this down to the ground though so, to each his own.

I got my car back today. After 170 miles in the F30, the steering feels like the fluid was replaced with molasses! Lots more cabin noise. The ride is a bit bumpier. More engine noise.
Pretty different experience, actually.

You are simply getting it wrong or stubbornly not wanting to get it. They leave them there by design, not south to remind you that you do not have them (but maybe that is a bonus to them) but more so if you wanted to add them you can do so easily. My e90 323 has no fogs and it was easy to add without needing to cut or hack to put the switch. Many people add the BT module and do not new to buy a new steering wheel to then get the buttons. Having them there when you cannot use them is less harmful/annoying than not having them when you want to add the functionality. Try that with the Nissan and see how ugly it would get. And if you do not want non functional buttons, get those functions. You complaints are just hollow and nonsensical at this point. Sorry, but that's how it is.

[Cwaters]

You know, these are subjective issues. That, of course, means that we'll have different opinions about what's important. And that's OK with me. As I said, overall, it's a pretty great car. I've never driven a car that I couldn't find SOME faults in. It's only a shame that we can see others who charge less doing some of these easy things better.
Of course these things cars are made up from are a series of compromises.
Truly, the percentage of people buying these cars without Bluetooth is probably very minimal. It was more of a problem before. So yea, maybe this peeve isn't a big deal given the small number units impacted. But I do not grant that it's nonsense.

I did, in fact, add features to our last Nissan. The fog lights came with the switch I needed. I removed the blanks for the lights and the switch and plugged them right up. The towing harness plugged right in. It was quite easy and seamless.
Anywho, have a nice day.

[walters48]

Going from an '07 335i Sedan to '12 335is Coupe, I found that they eliminated that nice little rechargeable flashlight on the left side of the glove box... that's cheesy.
Also, they eliminated a tool from the trunk tool box- the space is still there, just no tool. Finally, the thing that bothers me the most is the cheap plastic tire valve stem caps on the '12 335is, where the '08 had nice metal ones that would probably have outlasted the car.How much are they saving with that low class move? Maybe 50 cents or so? How many other things have they eliminated or cheapened that we don't even know about? Well, when my next car will probably an Audi S4 or a TTRS--- that's how much it's going to COST them long term.When a customer(client- ha ha) spends $10+k more on same series vehicle, I expect more and better, not less and cheaper!
That's my 2c.

[Jamesons Viggen]

Going from an '07 335i Sedan to '12 335is Coupe, I found that they eliminated that nice little rechargeable flashlight on the left side of the glove box... that's cheesy.
Also, they eliminated a tool from the trunk tool box- the space is still there, just no tool. Finally, the thing that bothers me the most is the cheap plastic tire valve stem caps on the '12 335is, where the '08 had nice metal ones that would probably have outlasted the car.How much are they saving with that low class move? Maybe 50 cents or so? How many other things have they eliminated or cheapened that we don't even know about? Well, when my next car will probably an Audi S4 or a TTRS--- that's how much it's going to COST them long term.When a customer(client- ha ha) spends $10+k more on same series vehicle, I expect more and better, not less and cheaper!
That's my 2c.Ok...

Your 335is is not an F30. It's an e92.

[walters48]

Ok...

Your 335is is not an F30. It's an e92.

Point taken. However, I was trying to keep w/ the spirit of the last few posts regarding BMW's relentless increase in price vs. perceived decrease in product value.
Buying a CPO is probably a good compromise, although you almost can never get every option/ color/ accessory you want and will probably have to take a couple that you don't want.

[freshbmw83]

I am young man but have been driving BMW 3 series for 10 years. I've owned a 2002 e46, 2007 e90, 2010 e92, and just got a 2013 f30. I have always felt quality sacrifices every time I got a new model. I still miss the quality of my e46. But I will really say a lot has been sacrificed in the f30. But what I dislike the least is they steered away from old BMW standards. Tool kit lost weight, trunk netting vs comparent, steering wheel buttons, wind noise, I also can't stand the fact that my Ac comes on every time I start the car and I can't leave the car in sport mode. Also the loss if being able to roll up your windows using driver door keyhole. And the grille is very spaced so you can clearly see the inter cooler ( not a good look).

[Jamesons Viggen]

I am young man but have been driving BMW 3 series for 10 years. I've owned a 2002 e46, 2007 e90, 2010 e92, and just got a 2013 f30. I have always felt quality sacrifices every time I got a new model. I still miss the quality of my e46. But I will really say a lot has been sacrificed in the f30. But what I dislike the least is they steered away from old BMW standards. Tool kit lost weight, trunk netting vs comparent, steering wheel buttons, wind noise, I also can't stand the fact that my Ac comes on every time I start the car and I can't leave the car in sport mode. Also the loss if being able to roll up your windows using driver door keyhole. And the grille is very spaced so you can clearly see the inter cooler ( not a good look).


You are able to roll up all windows and sunroof with coding.

[grahamggg]

Thanks everyone for a great thread!

[glennp2014]

So when is the F32 coming out? Is this a total remake of the 3 series from the current model? Sorry I know nothing of BMW's I am still learning the car. Had to postpone my visit to the dealer. Reading this thread has been a big help I will watch out for all the concerns and issues you guys have of this F30 model. I like the way it looks I just want to see it up close and see if it will churn my interest. Good thread indeed!

[jsolares]

My brother got a 328i, the look has grown on me, granted i do like the e9x more still, but it looks bold. i kind of like the less feedback on the steering, with the roads here my e36 steering wheel goes "bonkers" on every nook and cranny, i do get how it might be better for the track to have all that feedback but on the roads here... meh.

[Billyp7718]

I just took delivery of a 2013 328i last week. I was a skeptic of the 2.0 even after the first time I drove it. I purchased it over ATS Which was outstanding but interior was too GM and the BMW just felt better and more upscale, the Audi A4 was far behind in driving dynamics,and the MB C300 was just too soft and not for me. My last car was a B7 Audi S4 and before that, I had an e46 330i ZHP and 05 X5 3.0.

My 2cents

-After putting 500 miles on this car so far, I have found this motor and ZF 8spdhttp://img.tapatalk.com/d/13/09/27/jeryjaqu.jpg to be outstanding. Minimal turbo lag and silky smooth power delivery really is far better than the i6 in the e90 328i (except for sound) I am surprised that this thing moves like it does and can still get 33mpg. The car is very nimble and balanced.

- the F30 is more grown up than my e46 (styling and size). Aside from steering feel and engine sound, the F30 is faster, more efficient, handles better, and is way more comfortable. (I am also 35 now compared to 25 when I had the e46 so my tastes changed a bit). For those of you pining for the e46 drive, buy a 1 series

- drove the 335 and S4 too. The 335 is epic but with new higher options pricing, the gap is closed on the new S4. If I was spending $60k, my money would sadly go towards the Audi.

[grahamggg]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/new-cars/go-news-new-cars-bmw-328i-vs-bmw-328i-65-1-roa0813

A good article/review on this topic...

[rolltidef30]

http://www.roadandtrack.com/go/news/new-cars/go-news-new-cars-bmw-328i-vs-bmw-328i-65-1-roa0813 A good article/review on this topic...
I too had read that article and found it interesting. I am bias towards the new car for several reasons. First, I own it, also I'm 6'4 and although I always loved the 3, I found it cramped in the past. With the F30, it feels perfect for me.

As for the engine, I think it grew on me very well. City mpg isn't much of a gain with hard driving in Sport, but on the highway I get a consistent 32-33 mpg when driving hard. Nothing beats that!

The interior may not be as "old world" as the E90, but I still like it and really like the new tech. Trade offs are there, but the car is very efficient, powerful, fun, and overall damn good.