Style 167's for M-pars (#37) help needed!

[kahlilj]

I wanted to swap out my 18" M-pars with some style 167's, but am having some clearance issues at the front wheels.

I replaced my stock suspension with Kido coilovers a while back. They ran fine with the M-pars. However after I installed the 167's and test drove them I could smell rubber. I removed the tire and noticed a slight groove in the tire's inner sidewall from where it was rubbing against the spring on the coilover. :(

So I think I need spacers. My m-pars are 8" width x 18" dia and ET13. The 167's are 8.5" width x 19" diameter with ET12. With the close offset I thought it would be clear, but I guess not.

What size spacers should I use? 10mm? 15mm? does material compatibility matter? Aluminum would be my choice but would it matter if it were a different material?

I'm thinking something like this will do:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/HUBCENTRIC-WHEEL-SPACERS-12MM-5X120-BMW-E38-7-SERIES-W-BOLTS-BLK-/150821664288?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item231dabf620&vxp=mtr

Thanks

[KarlSpackler]

1. Do not buy ebay spacers. Spend the money and get them from H&R, ECS, Rouge, Vorschlag or another vendor from this site. The EBAY ones are complete junk and will fall apart.... literaly. I know from experience.
2. I would just go like 5-8mm. You should only be 6mm inward more than your M-PAR wheels so I cant believe you are rubbing by much.
3. What size tires are you running now? Before?
4. You also shouldnt need longer bolts with only a 5-8mm spacer. Or you can just switch to the 75mm Vorshlag studkit and thank me forever :)

[kahlilj]

Thanks Karl. I saw some H&R spacers on ebay as well. What are good sources for the brands you mentioned?

The tires I installed were 245/45-19. I had 255/45-18's with no rubbing issues at all.

This was a website i used to give a visual check for fitment:
http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=255&aspect=45&diameter=18&wheelwidth=8&offset=-13&width2=245&aspect2=45&diameter2=19&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=-12&Submit=Submit

[KarlSpackler]

Thanks Karl. I saw some H&R spacers on ebay as well. What are good sources for the brands you mentioned?

The tires I installed were 245/45-19. I had 255/45-18's with no rubbing issues at all.

This was a website i used to give a visual check for fitment:
http://www.willtheyfit.com/index.php?width=255&aspect=45&diameter=18&wheelwidth=8&offset=-13&width2=245&aspect2=45&diameter2=19&wheelwidth2=8.5&offset2=-12&Submit=Submit

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E36-M3-S52_3.2L/Wheels/Spacers/ES11296/

I would try these out first. Only way you are going to fix this is just to try different things out until it works.

If it were mine, I would switch to a 255/40 tire as it will be close to the same rolling radius as your original Mpars. Plus a 45 series sidewall on a 19 is a HUGE tire.

[kahlilj]

http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E36-M3-S52_3.2L/Wheels/Spacers/ES11296/

I would try these out first. Only way you are going to fix this is just to try different things out until it works.

If it were mine, I would switch to a 255/40 tire as it will be close to the same rolling radius as your original Mpars. Plus a 45 series sidewall on a 19 is a HUGE tire.

Thanks. I forgot about ECS tuning.

I believe the overall diameter for the 245/45-19 is only ~27.68" and the 255/40-19 is 27.03". So a little more than half an inch difference between the two. I didn't think I could feel the difference but when I sat in the car it felt HUGE. I didn't think half, ok 6/10" mattered, but it felt like my whole car was jacked up! :)

Anyway I'll give this site a try today.

[KarlSpackler]

Thanks. I forgot about ECS tuning.

I believe the overall diameter for the 245/45-19 is only ~27.68" and the 255/40-19 is 27.03". So a little more than half an inch difference between the two. I didn't think I could feel the difference but when I sat in the car it felt HUGE. I didn't think half, ok 6/10" mattered, but it felt like my whole car was jacked up! :)

Anyway I'll give this site a try today.

Ya, in the wheel/tire world 6/10" is alot.

[ECSTuning]

As yall have already decided 5mm would push the new wheels out enough to have the same inner clearance as your old ones. The tire being slightly taller can cause some issues, with clearances you might need to go slightly larger on the spacer if you have out side (fender side) clearance to insure the taller tire clears the suspension.

With the M parallels how much room did you have from the edge of the tire/wheel to the out side fender? You could use this as a chance to grab aggressive spacers to push both sets of wheels out enough to look even more aggressive on your car.

[kahlilj]

Actually I am considering 10 -12mm spacers instead because of the damage to the inner wall on one of my tires. There is where my main concern lies - clearance with the innards (KIdo coilovers, etc). So I think 5mm might not be enough. I'll have to measure the spacing between my M-pars and the outside fender. It looked close to flush.

The ECS product I was looking at was: http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E38-740iL-M62_4.4L/Search/Spacer/ES205204/
Are the supplied bolts longer than stock? If so can you provide them in black instead? My stock bolts appear to be ~20 mm long (with conical base) so I guess I'll need 30 mm bolts?

Thanks


As yall have already decided 5mm would push the new wheels out enough to have the same inner clearance as your old ones. The tire being slightly taller can cause some issues, with clearances you might need to go slightly larger on the spacer if you have out side (fender side) clearance to insure the taller tire clears the suspension.

With the M parallels how much room did you have from the edge of the tire/wheel to the out side fender? You could use this as a chance to grab aggressive spacers to push both sets of wheels out enough to look even more aggressive on your car.

I just measured the outside fender clearance with the 18" M-pars (255/45). It is only 1 cm (10mm). So like I said its pretty flush, but from what I recall with the 19" it was more clearance. I'll see if I can remove & replace just to check.

OK just measured with 18" mpars, removed them & then replaced with the 19" style 167. With the M-pars, the amount of clearance between the inner part of the wheel sidewall and the suspension appears to be ~15mm. As I said before the fender clearance is about 10mm. So with the tire width being 255mm this gives a total width of about 280mm between the fender and the suspension. Measuring those same widths with the 19" setup I get ~40mm fender clearance and nothing between the inner sidewall and the coils. With the tire width of 245mm, this gives me a total width of 285mm. So this means I have about 5mm interference between my tire and the suspension (hence the rubbing & groove in my tire during the test run).

So if I want to maintain a similar gap with the 19" tires and the suspension as i did the M-pars, this means I will need about 20mm (15mm + 5mm) spacers correct? If so then should I be concerned about using spacers that thick?

Any help is appreciated.

[ECSTuning]

The stock wheel bolts on your car are 28mm wheel bolts. You'll want to use 38mm to 40mm wheel bolts for 10mm spacers.

For the 10mm spacers with bolts, currently I don't have kits using the black bolts. But HERE (http://www.ecstuning.com/Cart/?add1=11297&qty1=1&add2=2130078&qty2=10&utm_source=JRiggsbee&utm_medium=email&utm_content=link2cart&salesrep=JRiggsbee) is a custom cart using our 39mm black bolts and 10mm ECS Spacers.



You're measurements are a bit different than what I expected.

Tire size and over all rolling diameter is going to be different between the 18 and 19 inch wheel. But here is some food for thought. Going by face of the wheel position and using the specs you posted above

M-Pars - 8 ET13
167 - 8.5 ET12

The 167s will sit 7mm closer to the fender lip than the M pars. They will also sit 5mm closer to the strut body.

The 167s without spacers should have LESS clearance between the fender and the wheel.

Did you just jack the car up change wheels and measure? If so the suspension is unsettled and the measurements are off by a bit.

[kahlilj]

The stock wheel bolts on your car are 28mm wheel bolts. You'll want to use 38mm to 40mm wheel bolts for 10mm spacers.

For the 10mm spacers with bolts, currently I don't have kits using the black bolts. But HERE (http://www.ecstuning.com/Cart/?add1=11297&qty1=1&add2=2130078&qty2=10&utm_source=JRiggsbee&utm_medium=email&utm_content=link2cart&salesrep=JRiggsbee) is a custom cart using our 39mm black bolts and 10mm ECS Spacers.



You're measurements are a bit different than what I expected.

Tire size and over all rolling diameter is going to be different between the 18 and 19 inch wheel. But here is some food for thought. Going by face of the wheel position and using the specs you posted above

M-Pars - 8 ET13
167 - 8.5 ET12

The 167s will sit 7mm closer to the fender lip than the M pars. They will also sit 5mm closer to the strut body.

The 167s without spacers should have LESS clearance between the fender and the wheel.

Did you just jack the car up change wheels and measure? If so the suspension is unsettled and the measurements are off by a bit.

Thanks for replying. The measurement I was referring to about my bolt length is from the base of bolt (tapered seat) to the tip (threaded end) - that distance is only 20mm. Are you saying that distance is 28mm? I actually measured the bolt with a ruler.

Actually what I concluded is that I might need as much as 20mm spacers in my last message. This was different than what I thought before and after following your suggestion and actually measuring distances. I also followed the useful video guide (http://www.ecstuning.com/BMW-E38-740iL-M62_4.4L/Search/Spacer/ES205208/Video219-SD/)from your website instructing how to measure horizontal fender clearance.

I came up with this number by simply adding the measured distances fender clearance, tire width and suspension clearances for both the M-pars and the 167's. Mpars: 10mm + 255mm +15mm = 280mm. The 167's: 40mm +245mm +0mm = 285mm. That means that my 167's are 5mm into or rubbing against my suspension and that is basically what happened as I described in my initial post.

From that I concluded that I may actually need 20mm spacers and not just 10. I have just under 40mm of fender clearance to play with so I should be ok there. Using 10mm spacers would only give me 5mm clearance from the suspension. However using 20mm spacers should match the 15mm clearance I now enjoy with the M-pars.

I jacked the car up, changed the tires and let it back down on flat ground then took measurements. This to me seemed the more certain approach than just trying to go by specs like I was doing before

I hope that makes sense?

[kahlilj]

Does anyone know what length bolts I need?

[kahlilj]

Well gang I decided to go with 15mm spacers on front & 20'sin the rear. I used 50mm bolts on the rears and will use 45mm bolts on the fronts. Installed the rears today and hope to have the fronts done by next weekend (waiting on spacers I ordered this past week).

Thanks all for your help it has truly been a good learning experience :)