E90 steering column replacement --- possible to get goodwill?

[pm010537]

Hello,

Couple of months ago an amber steering lock sign (steering with pad lock on upper left corner) started to appear on my dashboard. I did some research and found out that it has to do with electronic steering lock problem.

Since it was still an amber and not a red sign, plus I had know issues in starting the car, I did not pay much attention to it.

Today I took my car for a scheduled service to a reputed independent mechanic (since my car is out of warranty, I take my car to this mechanic only). Along with scheduled service I paid another $107 to get my steering checked. Mechanic told me that I am lucky that I haven't run into "Car not starting issue yet" and I should get my steering column replaced.

He is still in the process of getting quote for me but it's going to be around $775 (part + labor). Since car has low mileage on it, he asked me to talk to dealer about getting a goodwill.

Car details:
year: 2006
model: 325i
mileage: 49950

It's been out of warranty for past two years.

Questions:
1) I did bit of my own research and Electronic Steering lock failure seems to be a common problem in 2006 E90s. I don't think 50K is that big of a miles on this car to start showing such problems. Is it possible for me to get a goodwill for steering column replacement from BMW of NA?

I really appreciated all your guidance with this.

Thanks,
K2

[Level1Tech]

i doubt you will have any luck with getting a goodwill from the dealer or BMWNA for that matter. if you were a frequent customer at BMW dealership and always gave good CSI scores then maybe, if not i wouldnt count on it because the car is also 6 years old and has been out of warranty for quite some time. as far as BMW NA is concerned this is common and therefore is not regarded as a serious issue in which they would goodwill again considering the mileage, and number of owners, dealership visits etc. and $107 an hour for an independent shop? you might as well go to the dealer in the first place.

[fun2drive]

Would agree the dealership is not likely to go to bat for you since you didn't frequent them post warranty and the car is 2 years past warranty.
You can try but I would think you will have found a special dealer if he works with BMWNA for a good will repair on this...
Please post how this goes...

[pm010537]

Thank you for the responses.

I am going to talk Service manage at our local dealership and see what she has to say about goodwill repair.

I am also pessimistic about getting a goodwill repair from snobby dealers. Having said that I am still going to try it out. As an owner of bmw car I feel it's my moral responsibility to report this issue --- which happens to be a very common issue for E90 firt gen cars and I feel it's BMW dealer/carshop's responsibility to give me a goodwill at least on the part if not labor. I agree that it's not a serious issue but the fact that it's very common and BMW did not do anything about it just because it is a very common issue, makes me sad.

In the end I might not get anything but it's worth a try. I will keep you posted.

Agreed, about 107 per hour being too costly, but dealer is charging 140 an hour :).

Thanks,
-K2

[Critter7r]

I know everyone thinks dealers are "snobby" but let's look at it from another angle.

Instead of a BMW, let's say we're talking about a Gucci sweater that costs $500 new, and you are the owner of a fine-clothes tailoring shoppe. Now, someone goes and buys a Gucci sweater at a garage sale, but it's hardly been worn, so they're ok with it. Now, over the next few years, they take loving care of their Gucci sweater and even take it to their local inexpensive tailor shop for a couple of alterations and repairs. One day, the sweater needs a new collar and their local tailor tells them that they're unable to do that sort of work and it will have to be taken to your store for repairs. Is it fair for that person to then come to your store and demand that you fix this Gucci sweater, for free? They didn't buy it from you and they never broght it to you for any of their alterations or repairs. What's the incentive for you to fix their sweater for any sort of discount? You already know that they're not going to come to you for any of their normal repairs, they're only coming to you because there's nowhere else for them to go. You could offer to help them, but it'd be out of the goodness of your heart and not because you're making any money at it.

[nvmaddog]

I know everyone thinks dealers are "snobby" but let's look at it from another angle.

Instead of a BMW, let's say we're talking about a Gucci sweater that costs $500 new, and you are the owner of a fine-clothes tailoring shoppe. Now, someone goes and buys a Gucci sweater at a garage sale, but it's hardly been worn, so they're ok with it. Now, over the next few years, they take loving care of their Gucci sweater and even take it to their local inexpensive tailor shop for a couple of alterations and repairs. One day, the sweater needs a new collar and their local tailor tells them that they're unable to do that sort of work and it will have to be taken to your store for repairs. Is it fair for that person to then come to your store and demand that you fix this Gucci sweater, for free? They didn't buy it from you and they never broght it to you for any of their alterations or repairs. What's the incentive for you to fix their sweater for any sort of discount? You already know that they're not going to come to you for any of their normal repairs, they're only coming to you because there's nowhere else for them to go. You could offer to help them, but it'd be out of the goodness of your heart and not because you're making any money at it.

The only problem with this logic is we are not talking about clothes, we are talking about some of the best automobiles on the planet. Certain things should just be covered, especially when a good percentage of a vehicle run are infected with the same problems. (this is what you pay 50+ thousand dollars for, as well as other things)

Steering wheel cylinder lock out - Should definitely be covered up to 100k.
Ridiculous lifter noise and valve ticking - Should also be covered up to 100k.

These are flaws that countless have had before and after the 50k mile mark and BMWNA should be more apt to help people out. I have heard of cases where they have, which is awesome. But there are several where they have not, and people with very low mileage have had to foot enormous bills to have inherit design problems fixed on their dime.

That being said, there is a reason it is called "goodwill". It builds customer appreciation, enhances return business and spreads a good reputation about a company. It sends customers back for their next car, their wives car, friends, etc. That right there is more than enough "incentive" for BMWNA, and local BMW dealers as well.

[mryakan]

No car is perfect, and all cars have their known problems. The warranty is what it is, if you want 10 yr/100k get a Hyundai and see if you would be happy with a 5+ year old one even if common issues are covered. Regardless of automobile, it is unreasonable to expect everything to be covered forever, or past the nominal warranty. BMW has one of the best warranties/maintenance plans in its class, go see how lucky you'd be with MB or Audi.
Not every common problem should have extended warranty, heck by that measure BMW would be bankrupt from regulator failures alone. If you do not like he recurring problems on a certain brand, get something else, there is lots of choice/competition nowadays.

[nvmaddog]

A regulator failure does not keep you from driving your ultimate driving machine. A steering column locking you out at 40 thousand miles will though. I don't remember the last time my cheaply made fords or crap hondas ever had a malfunction that could keep me from turning the steering wheel, but I bet if they did it would be taken care of under goodwill if it was not insanely out of the warranty period. (Recalls and TSB's from most manufactures)

But alas that's the point, BMW's cars are great overall, that's why so many people buy them. It would not bankrupt them to stand behind major failures within reasonable mileage, and that's the reason why I feel the OP asked about goodwill to begin with.

Never hurts to try, maybe a good dealer will want to turn you into a long time customer.

[pm010537]

I know everyone thinks dealers are "snobby" but let's look at it from another angle.

Instead of a BMW, let's say we're talking about a Gucci sweater that costs $500 new, and you are the owner of a fine-clothes tailoring shoppe. Now, someone goes and buys a Gucci sweater at a garage sale, but it's hardly been worn, so they're ok with it. Now, over the next few years, they take loving care of their Gucci sweater and even take it to their local inexpensive tailor shop for a couple of alterations and repairs. One day, the sweater needs a new collar and their local tailor tells them that they're unable to do that sort of work and it will have to be taken to your store for repairs. Is it fair for that person to then come to your store and demand that you fix this Gucci sweater, for free? They didn't buy it from you and they never broght it to you for any of their alterations or repairs. What's the incentive for you to fix their sweater for any sort of discount? You already know that they're not going to come to you for any of their normal repairs, they're only coming to you because there's nowhere else for them to go. You could offer to help them, but it'd be out of the goodness of your heart and not because you're making any money at it.

I don't agree with the logic and comparison made here. As nvmaddog points out, we are talking about car vs clothing. This is a design defect vs something cosmetic. Dealers are the face for BMW. I cannot fly down to Germany but can definitely drive down to a dealer. Along with talking to dealer, I will also send an email to BMW USA (which is nothing but BMWNA). It's in my hand to fight for what I think is right. And I think this is something valid that I am fighting for.

[mryakan]

Of course you can fight, but I doubt you'd win this one. The car is 6+ years old, way past the warranty period. Things break, be it an engine or transmission or whatever. And as far as I know, this is not a safety issue. It can only prevent you from starting the car, something very inconvenient, but not unsafe.
Are you the 1st owner btw?

[pm010537]

No car is perfect, and all cars have their known problems. The warranty is what it is, if you want 10 yr/100k get a Hyundai and see if you would be happy with a 5+ year old one even if common issues are covered. Regardless of automobile, it is unreasonable to expect everything to be covered forever, or past the nominal warranty. BMW has one of the best warranties/maintenance plans in its class, go see how lucky you'd be with MB or Audi.
Not every common problem should have extended warranty, heck by that measure BMW would be bankrupt from regulator failures alone. If you do not like he recurring problems on a certain brand, get something else, there is lots of choice/competition nowadays.

as a matter of fact even BMW don't have such common issues. It's just E90 first gen has some basic design issues which BMW should own up to it. I did not go ask for goodwill when my window regulator broke, which again happens to be a very common problem in E90 2006. It costed me a bit but I do understand I cannot go to dealer for goodwill for this, in spite of the fact that this is common issue (which again points to a design defect).


But steering lock is something all together is a different thing. As nvmaddog points out my car won't start at all :). There are choices available and I agree because I like driving BMW I went for BMW but that does not meant that I cannot fight for what I think is right.

[mryakan]

as a matter of fact even BMW don't have such common issues. It's just E90 first gen has some basic design issues which BMW should own up to it. I did not go ask for goodwill when my window regulator broke, which again happens to be a very common problem in E90 2006. It costed me a bit but I do understand I cannot go to dealer for goodwill for this, in spite of the fact that this is common issue (which again points to a design defect).


But steering lock is something all together is a different thing. As nvmaddog points out my car won't start at all :). There are choices available and I agree because I like driving BMW I went for BMW but that does not meant that I cannot fight for what I think is right.
Not true. The 1st year of the e90 is probably the most reliable 1st year of any model BMW has ever made. I have been here for almost 6 years and I have to say I see less % of people complain about 325/330 than the 328/335, and most common issues with the 1st year e90s (regulators, water pump, etc) are common with all other models (and most of BMWs models in some cases). The steering column issue is one of the exceptions, and BMW addressed it in MY07, but as said, not something that is safety that it requires a recall.
BMW owns up to it until the warranty expires. After that, you are on your own. And if this is not a car you bought brand new, then that is where you should have done your homework and knew what you are getting into. Not like this issue was only discovered recently. That issue has been reported since 2007 at the least.

And as I said, you can fight by what you think is right, but you thinking it is right does not necessarily make it right, just saying! Good luck anyway and keep us posted.

[pm010537]

mryakan, thanks a lot for the feedback. I will keep you all posted about how it goes.

[nitrojunky]

C5 corvettes commonly had a very similar issue. (google 'pull key wait 10 seconds'). our fix was either to have it programmed out (as in the ECU no longer engages the lock), or unplug the column lock and buy a little $50 simulator which was plugged into the column lock's pigtail output and mimicked the correct electrical signal telling the ECU that the column lock worked properly.

anything similar for BMWs?

[pm010537]

Update:

I had a talk with BMWNA rep. As per the rep, chance of getting goodwill are minimal (because I am out of warranty for 2 years). Rep asked me to get the problem diagnosed by a authorized BMW dealer, send them the update and if they think it's really genuine they can think about the goodwill. Rep was very courteous and listened to with me with patience. I liked that.

I have an appointment with the dealer this Thursday (01/02).

nitrojunky, I have read about programming it in such a way that it appears to be unlocked all the time (basically disable the locking mechanism). I will not come to know until I get it diagnosed by a dealer, which is this Thursday.

[Critter7r]

I don't agree with the logic and comparison made here. As nvmaddog points out, we are talking about car vs clothing. This is a design defect vs something cosmetic. Dealers are the face for BMW. I cannot fly down to Germany but can definitely drive down to a dealer. Along with talking to dealer, I will also send an email to BMW USA (which is nothing but BMWNA). It's in my hand to fight for what I think is right. And I think this is something valid that I am fighting for.


Regardless of the nature of the defect or failure, the idea behind my analogy was to pretend that you are the high-line clothing store owner that is seeing a customer for the first time ever, and on his very first visit to your store, he is seeking a deep discount on the repair of an item that he bought used from someone else. Of course you should help him to try to secure future business, but will it be worth your trouble? Is this customer really ever going to come here for any repairs that aren't covered under warranty? I think we know the answer to both of those questions is no.

[nvmaddog]

Regardless of the nature of the defect or failure, the idea behind my analogy was to pretend that you are the high-line clothing store owner that is seeing a customer for the first time ever, and on his very first visit to your store, he is seeking a deep discount on the repair of an item that he bought used from someone else. Of course you should help him to try to secure future business, but will it be worth your trouble? Is this customer really ever going to come here for any repairs that aren't covered under warranty? I think we know the answer to both of those questions is no.

If everyone had this short sighted view the world would be even worse off than it already is.

Speculation as to the maintenance habits of used car purchasers vs. new car customers can not be summed up with a simple analogy. Do you really think everyone who buys a BMW used will never bring their car to a dealer for maintenance that is not covered by warranty? I think everyone knows the answer is no.

Again the problem is not cosmetic and that is why we had this drawn out discussion. This is a major failure, that may or may not be safety related that should still be addressed within a mileage period. The OP is not seeking help with something frivolous, he/she is simply asking a manufacturer to stand behind something that is a SERIOUS known failure with their high end product. Obviously BMWNA is at least willing to look into the matter a little further if the OP is willing to have the car checked out. If they felt it was completely out of the question they would have dismissed the claim out of hand.

[cochise325]

Update:

I had a talk with BMWNA rep. As per the rep, chance of getting goodwill are minimal (because I am out of warranty for 2 years). Rep asked me to get the problem diagnosed by a authorized BMW dealer, send them the update and if they think it's really genuine they can think about the goodwill. Rep was very courteous and listened to with me with patience. I liked that.

I have an appointment with the dealer this Thursday (01/02).

nitrojunky, I have read about programming it in such a way that it appears to be unlocked all the time (basically disable the locking mechanism). I will not come to know until I get it diagnosed by a dealer, which is this Thursday.

Hey that is encouraging. Good luck. Even if they covered half the cost it would have been worth pursuing. My 2006 325xi Sportwagon had this repair done under warranty. They had my car for several days.

[Critter7r]

If everyone had this short sighted view the world would be even worse off than it already is.

Speculation as to the maintenance habits of used car purchasers vs. new car customers can not be summed up with a simple analogy. Do you really think everyone who buys a BMW used will never bring their car to a dealer for maintenance that is not covered by warranty? I think everyone knows the answer is no.

Again the problem is not cosmetic and that is why we had this drawn out discussion. This is a major failure, that may or may not be safety related that should still be addressed within a mileage period. The OP is not seeking help with something frivolous, he/she is simply asking a manufacturer to stand behind something that is a SERIOUS known failure with their high end product. Obviously BMWNA is at least willing to look into the matter a little further if the OP is willing to have the car checked out. If they felt it was completely out of the question they would have dismissed the claim out of hand.

There has been no "speculation" on my part. In his first post, the OP wrote, "(since my car is out of warranty, I take my car to this mechanic only)." So in this instance, yes, this customer has never and is never going to go to the dealer unless he thinks that he can get something from them for free.

I agree that this is not a cosmetic problem and while I don't think that it's a "major failure", the repair is not an inexpensive one.

My point was not to insinuate that the OP didn't deserve some assistance with the repair, just to temper his expectations by providing an analogy because many people find it difficult to relate to the relationship between BMW of NA, BMW dealers and the customer.

[mryakan]

Guys, this debate is becoming pointless and distracting, so this thread has gone offtopic and outlived its useful life.
Best of luck OP and please create a new thread to update us in how BMW/dealer respond.