Suspension Rebuild help

[dudeitstrey]

I'm in the process of putting the front end back together but I'm having a bit of trouble.

I can't manage to get the tie rods in when I have to idler arm on and vice versa.

Is there a specific order to do this?


The pitman arm is already in place. I also can't get the driver side tie rod in. The control arm, thrust arm, and sway bar are all in place but not tight. Should I take them off and do the center link and tie rods first?

[DukeEllington]

I would go pitman, centerlink with tierods attached already, swaybar, attach arms to wheel carrier, then tierod ends, swaybar links.

[dudeitstrey]

I would go pitman, centerlink with tierods attached already, swaybar, attach arms to wheel carrier, then tierod ends, swaybar links.

That's sort of the way I did it. Tie rods are already attached, slid it in, and attached the pitman. Then I put the idler arm on and can't get the tie rods in place. When I take the idler arm off I can get the passenger side tie rod in but then I can't get the idler arm on because the center link can't lift up high enough for the holes to align and get the bolt in.

I'll go snap a few pictures

Passenger Side with idler arm in place: http://i.imgur.com/h2lnx.jpg This is as much as I can get the tie rod to go.

Driver side: http://i.imgur.com/X027f.jpg same thing

Passenger side with tie rod in, idler bolt in back won't go in all the way http://i.imgur.com/Amhws.jpg

[kouks]

This may be a dumb question, but are the arms extended on the center link the exact amount as the old arms were?

Also, are these OEM parts, and if not, did you compare them for proper fit and size with the old parts before going in?

[dudeitstrey]

This may be a dumb question, but are the arms extended on the center link the exact amount as the old arms were?

Also, are these OEM parts, and if not, did you compare them for proper fit and size with the old parts before going in?

This is the kit I bought.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/BMW-740i-750iL-Brand-New-Suspension-Rebuild-Kit-w-Control-Arms-Tie-Rods-etc-/170823850928
I did not compare them side by side. I counted threads though.



Update: Got the tie rods and pitman arm in place, can't get the bolt through the idler arm. Jacking it up at the ball joint got it through by a couple of millimeters.



Update 2: GOT IT. :buttrock

[kouks]

Thanks for the info. Now I know what I have to go through when I do mine.

[redpicker]

...shakes head...

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the worn-out parts you took off are better than the ones you are putting on.

Max sells OEM suspension kits; over $1200 plus shipping for what you bought on eBay for $450 for (including shipping, and suspension parts are heavy); and that does not include the center link.

He sells Meyle kits for around $1100 (including the center link) plus shipping. More than twice what the guy on eBay is asking. There is a reason for this difference in price.

If you are lucky, you will get 6 months or 6000 miles out of these eBay parts before they are worn out so bad that it feels dangerous to drive.

If you are unlucky, you will have a component fail catastrophically when you have to make a swerve to avoid some idiot on the freeway and you spin out in the median.

If you are really unlucky, it will happen on a 4-lane into the path of an 18-wheeler.

I don't want to sound all doom and gloom, but those cheap suspension parts are really a bad idea. I realize you probably won't believe me, and that's fine; it's your money and you are old enough to begin making your own decisions. I do hope that someone else will read this post and reconsider their actions, though.

These are very heavy cars, with heavy-duty, high-performance suspensions. Cheap knock-off parts are not going to work long enough to wear out a set of used tires. Yeah, they are that bad. If you look through the archives, you will see posts from people who advocate jail time for the people who sell them.

I'll continue to say this, in the hopes that someone understands. You cannot keep these cars on the road with cheap parts. The cheap parts are worse new than 15 year-old, 200,000 mile OEM parts. These are great cars, but there is a reason they can be bought for 5% of the new price. The maintenance is expensive. Sure, you can save quite a bit of money doing the work yourself, but don't try to save money on the parts.

Just like tools, cheap BMW parts are no bargain.

rp

[dudeitstrey]

Thanks for the info. Now I know what I have to go through when I do mine.

It's a pain. Make sure to have a second jack. It helped a lot when putting in the new ball joints.



...shakes head...

I hate to be the one to tell you this, but the worn-out parts you took off are better than the ones you are putting on.

Max sells OEM suspension kits; over $1200 plus shipping for what you bought on eBay for $450 for (including shipping, and suspension parts are heavy); and that does not include the center link.

He sells Meyle kits for around $1100 (including the center link) plus shipping. More than twice what the guy on eBay is asking. There is a reason for this difference in price.

If you are lucky, you will get 6 months or 6000 miles out of these eBay parts before they are worn out so bad that it feels dangerous to drive.

If you are unlucky, you will have a component fail catastrophically when you have to make a swerve to avoid some idiot on the freeway and you spin out in the median.

If you are really unlucky, it will happen on a 4-lane into the path of an 18-wheeler.

I don't want to sound all doom and gloom, but those cheap suspension parts are really a bad idea. I realize you probably won't believe me, and that's fine; it's your money and you are old enough to begin making your own decisions. I do hope that someone else will read this post and reconsider their actions, though.

These are very heavy cars, with heavy-duty, high-performance suspensions. Cheap knock-off parts are not going to work long enough to wear out a set of used tires. Yeah, they are that bad. If you look through the archives, you will see posts from people who advocate jail time for the people who sell them.

I'll continue to say this, in the hopes that someone understands. You cannot keep these cars on the road with cheap parts. The cheap parts are worse new than 15 year-old, 200,000 mile OEM parts. These are great cars, but there is a reason they can be bought for 5% of the new price. The maintenance is expensive. Sure, you can save quite a bit of money doing the work yourself, but don't try to save money on the parts.

Just like tools, cheap BMW parts are no bargain.

rp


I agree with you completely. I had to do this on a budget and the wheel shaking was getting too bad to put it off any longer.

I also used Monroe struts, which I didn't want to do, but didn't have the money to get OEM.
Regarding this, the old struts were Sachs. They have lifetime warranty right?
They were completely gone anyway. Wouldn't even come back out after being depressed.

I'm starting on the rear tomorrow. Hopefully it won't be as much of a pain in the ass as the front.

[noodlesandsam]

Umm, I expect it will be worse. Just following the disassembly to pull the shocks out is painful. I worry if you found the center link a challenge, this will bring you more pain. Get a good shop to check you work, and have an alignment done. +1 on the advice about parts.

[kouks]

On the parts discussion, it is purely an economic issue. Yes, I'd love to have OEM BMW parts but if I did that for everything I might as well go out and buy a new one and pay the $900 monthly bank payment. The Chinese stuff may wear out sooner but all that means is that when you feel something wrong don't let it go for a while like you do for OEM parts.

Good luck with the rear suspension. I hear the rear ball joint is a blast of a time.

[dudeitstrey]

Umm, I expect it will be worse. Just following the disassembly to pull the shocks out is painful. I worry if you found the center link a challenge, this will bring you more pain. Get a good shop to check you work, and have an alignment done. +1 on the advice about parts.


Yeah I plan on asking them to go over any bolts when I bring it to get aligned.





On the parts discussion, it is purely an economic issue. Yes, I'd love to have OEM BMW parts but if I did that for everything I might as well go out and buy a new one and pay the $900 monthly bank payment. The Chinese stuff may wear out sooner but all that means is that when you feel something wrong don't let it go for a while like you do for OEM parts.

Good luck with the rear suspension. I hear the rear ball joint is a blast of a time.


Exactly, this way when any of the parts start failing I can replace it with an OEM part as they fail.

[Alpine 7even]

Another dumb question but s the center link in correctly? Not "backwards?

Edit, never mind I see you got!

[dudeitstrey]

Another dumb question but s the center link in correctly? Not "backwards?

Edit, never mind I see you got!

Haha I made sure it was in the right way. Luckily it was labeled L and R, as were the rest of the parts.


My front end now sits about 3 inches higher.


Edit: Also, your E38 is drop dead sexy.

[M I C H A E L]

you don't need an alignment. Only if your changing the toe. it's a sales scheme

[GSXRliterbikz]

you don't need an alignment. Only if your changing the toe. it's a sales scheme


Any time you change suspension parts, you change the alignment. You might not change it much, but it changes. Even changing shocks will change ride height and that changes camber. You should always align it after replacing worn suspension parts. Unless you don't like your tires.

[M I C H A E L]

I never had issues.

[dudeitstrey]

you don't need an alignment. Only if your changing the toe. it's a sales scheme

I need one really bad. The tread on my tires is so uneven they almost fall over when I stand them up.

[IcemanBHE]

you don't need an alignment. Only if your changing the toe. it's a sales scheme

Worst statement EVER.

[M I C H A E L]

Worst statement EVER.

you dont need an alignment for changing struts either. Believe what you want. I changed thrust rod and wishbone and didnt have to alignment. car drove straight as it did prior.

[GSXRliterbikz]

Good for you. We're glad that it worked out for you. But that doesn't mean your advice is good. You cannot change suspension parts without changing the dynamics of the front end. They don't always change much, but they do change.
So while you didn't NEED an alignment, you would benefit from one. Just cuz you don't notice a difference doesn't mean there isn't one.

[olinjohnston]

Wow, and I thought I was going "cheap" for getting the Meyle HD upper arms for my $500 POS 740i...

The tie-rods, draglink, and idler are OE, and the lower arms are Lemfoerder though.

I feel like any job worth doing is worth doing right. While its not necessary to be rich to own an old BMW, the penny pinching on this particular E38 board continues to shock me.

[noodlesandsam]

Dude, he had the center link, and tie rods out. Toe was impacted. Do you have any idea how that steering / any steering works? Touch tie rod ends for any steering system on a car on planet earth, and you affect toe.

I run on a budget as well. I assembled lemforder parts over 5 months getting ready for this. It made a world of difference in the driving experience.

[M I C H A E L]

gotcha.

[redpicker]

Wow, and I thought I was going "cheap" for getting the Meyle HD upper arms for my $500 POS 740i...

The tie-rods, draglink, and idler are OE, and the lower arms are Lemfoerder though.

I feel like any job worth doing is worth doing right. While its not necessary to be rich to own an old BMW, the penny pinching on this particular E38 board continues to shock me.
I know what you mean, hence the reason for my earlier post.

I understand the temptation, though. Why pay three times as much, or more, for the same parts? The thing is, they aren't the same parts.

I think people figure if it work on a Chevy, it will work on a BMW. This is not the case. The Chevy is designed to work with cheap parts; the BMW isn't.


The Chinese stuff may wear out sooner but all that means is that when you feel something wrong don't let it go for a while like you do for OEM parts.
This if flawed.

When the Chinese junk wears out, you aren't going to believe they are worn out because you will still have grease under your fingernails from when you installed them. You are going to think there is something else wrong and continue to drive it untill you find out what it is. "It can't be the front end, it isn't even two months old" is what you will tell yourself. When they do fail, they will do it spectacularly, meaning the wheel will fall off. It will likely do more damage to the vehicle than you saved in buying the cheap parts.

This is not hyperbole, it's just honest truth.

It's been said that most people learn from their mistakes. Stupid people don't. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

Be smart.

rp

[Saj8986]

Great thread. I need some work done and this helped a lot.

Sent from my ADR6400L using BF.com

[kouks]

This if flawed.

When the Chinese junk wears out, you aren't going to believe they are worn out because you will still have grease under your fingernails from when you installed them. You are going to think there is something else wrong and continue to drive it untill you find out what it is. "It can't be the front end, it isn't even two months old" is what you will tell yourself. When they do fail, they will do it spectacularly, meaning the wheel will fall off. It will likely do more damage to the vehicle than you saved in buying the cheap parts.

This is not hyperbole, it's just honest truth.

It's been said that most people learn from their mistakes. Stupid people don't. Smart people learn from other people's mistakes.

Be smart.

rp

Opinions are great, but you live and die by the data (flight test saying).

Can you produce any real data of how the knock offs, and which ones, are that bad. I've yet to read a story of a car loosing a wheel and crashing in the paper, and I live near LA with 90 gazilion cars.

[M I C H A E L]

i was only toe toe, and camber and caster for aligments.

[dudeitstrey]

Wow, and I thought I was going "cheap" for getting the Meyle HD upper arms for my $500 POS 740i...

The tie-rods, draglink, and idler are OE, and the lower arms are Lemfoerder though.

I feel like any job worth doing is worth doing right. While its not necessary to be rich to own an old BMW, the penny pinching on this particular E38 board continues to shock me.

Yeah, I could tell the idler arm was OEM. It was the only piece that didn't come in a plastic bag and actually said BMW Made in Germany on it. Tie rods came in bubble wrap bags.

I know I did this cheap, I spent $800 on all of the parts for this rebuild and I realize I will have to replace some in the next year or so.

For some depth of how bad it needed to be done though, I deliver pizza in this car....

I know.. you don't have to say anything.

The wheel shake was getting incredibly bad. Almost every time I pressed the brakes the steering wheel would jerk side to side at least 2 inches each way. The struts were so far gone that it looks like my back wheels are tucked. It annoys me to ride with the windows down because of the squeaking. It's also pretty embarrassing watching people that are walking, jogging, or riding their bikes turn around to see "what in the hell that noise is." You can see them think it as they look. Even the smallest speed bump I would scrape on or the rear end would bounce like it's on a trampoline. Not to mention my city is littered with these, http://i.imgur.com/SSxLd.jpg (EDIT: Upon further inspection of this picture I pulled from Google, this speed lump is actually in my city.)

The old tie rod and center link ball joints were so loose that after I pulled them out they just swung around on the center link.

I was already worried that one of the wheels were going to fall off. At this point I'd rather brand new cheap parts than more-than-likely 17 year old OEM parts with 160k miles on them.

The reason I enjoy this car is because prior to owning this I had zero knowledge of how to work on cars. Seeing the community on these forums and the enthusiasts that make DIY guides I took this car as an opportunity to teach myself basic and eventually more advanced mechanical skills.
With the help of e38.org and this forum I'm able to do this.

You guys are great. :thumbup:

[M I C H A E L]

Yeah, I could tell the idler arm was OEM. It was the only piece that didn't come in a plastic bag and actually said BMW Made in Germany on it. Tie rods came in bubble wrap bags.

I know I did this cheap, I spent $800 on all of the parts for this rebuild and I realize I will have to replace some in the next year or so.

For some depth of how bad it needed to be done though, I deliver pizza in this car....

I know.. you don't have to say anything.

The wheel shake was getting incredibly bad. Almost every time I pressed the brakes the steering wheel would jerk side to side at least 2 inches each way. The struts were so far gone that it looks like my back wheels are tucked. It annoys me to ride with the windows down because of the squeaking. It's also pretty embarrassing watching people that are walking, jogging, or riding their bikes turn around to see "what in the hell that noise is." You can see them think it as they look. Even the smallest speed bump I would scrape on or the rear end would bounce like it's on a trampoline. Not to mention my city is littered with these, http://i.imgur.com/SSxLd.jpg (EDIT: Upon further inspection of this picture I pulled from Google, this speed lump is actually in my city.)

The old tie rod and center link ball joints were so loose that after I pulled them out they just swung around on the center link.

I was already worried that one of the wheels were going to fall off. At this point I'd rather brand new cheap parts than more-than-likely 17 year old OEM parts with 160k miles on them.

The reason I enjoy this car is because prior to owning this I had zero knowledge of how to work on cars. Seeing the community on these forums and the enthusiasts that make DIY guides I took this car as an opportunity to teach myself basic and eventually more advanced mechanical skills.
With the help of e38.org and this forum I'm able to do this.

You guys are great. :thumbup:
:handclap

[dudeitstrey]

:handclap

I think you have actually posted on every thread I've started.

so, :handclap right back atcha

[redpicker]

Opinions are great, but you live and die by the data (flight test saying).

Can you produce any real data of how the knock offs, and which ones, are that bad. I've yet to read a story of a car loosing a wheel and crashing in the paper, and I live near LA with 90 gazilion cars.OK. You're right. Best parts in the world. Nobody has ever had any problems using cheap crap. [/sarcasm]

I'd like to make a small change to your flight test saying.

Opinions are great, but you live and die by your cars suspension. You don't believe me? You want data, you look it up.

And, delivering pizzas in a 7? It all kinda makes sense, now. Some things you can't fix.

rp

[kouks]

And, delivering pizzas in a 7? It all kinda makes sense, now. Some things you can't fix.

rp

Wow.

Please pass the Grey Poupon.

[vintage740i]

I too got a lot from this, I ordered all of my rear suspension from Bimmerspecialist.com and I just ordered my front from the place above on this thread. I think I will return and continue to buy from the OEM place. Thanks for the information..

[dudeitstrey]

Finished the rebuild tonight. Took it for a drive around the block and it's smooth like butter.

Alignment tomorrow.