You guys got me

[Cyrix2k]

My clutch engagement has been a bit odd for months now. I knew something was up but didn't check into it... anyway, tuesday night I went out and the pedal was engaging right off the floor. Got into town and I could feel the clutch dragging so I drove home in one gear. By the time I was back in my driveway, the clutch wouldn't fully disengage. I checked the fluid level and it's fine with no evidence of external leaks (although it's hard to tell - thanks sandy). I have a feeling my master is shot but it made it 200,500 miles :buttrock Messing with it will still give me pedal depending on the angle it's pressed in; I think the seals are worn out internally. I'm going to replace the master, rubber line, and slave as the latter two have been looking rough for a while. I wish it was just the slave since that's a whole lot easier to replace. Oh well.

[pleiades]

How many miles on the pressure plate?

[Cyrix2k]

How many miles on the pressure plate?
no clue, >65k since it hasn't been out since I've owned the car. I'm hoping that isn't it because that repair bill will be like $2k in parts (flywheel/clutch kit/hydraulics/shifter bushings/flex disc/drive shaft). I don't want to piecemeal this since the labor overlaps so much.

:edit: I should mention a slightly disturbing part here. The clutch does NOT engage over time when the pedal is held to the floor. It acts like the hydraulic system is not leaking. Pumping does nothing to improve the engagement point and the engagement point changes seemingly at random. The clutch in this car has always felt weird, but it doesn't slip and has, until now, always disengaged fine.

[Der Krieger]

How many miles on the pressure plate?

Why would that matter? Do you think it's swelling up so his hydraulics can't disengage it? :confused

It is clearly a hydraulic cylinder issue (unless the throwout arm, which never breaks, broke). Could be either one. One of those reasons I know how to drive my manual cars without using the clutch. :cool

[Cyrix2k]

Why would that matter? Do you think it's swelling up so his hydraulics can't disengage it? :confused

It is clearly a hydraulic cylinder issue (unless the throwout arm, which never breaks, broke). Could be either one. One of those reasons I know how to drive my manual cars without using the clutch. :cool
I can too :) It's useful sometimes... I had to pull up an incline and drift back down to get into reverse without murdering my transmission lol.

[john@eac]

It sounds like you are heading in the right direction with the master and slave. I think that it's best to replace them both anyway. I attempt to bleed the system out to see if it will work. This isn't a fix but if it works ok you know that the slave or master is bad and it is not an internal problem.

[rancor]

i remember the master cylinder was a b**ch to replace but mine was bad at like 120k so its very possible thats your problem

Sent from my microwave using BF.com

[Jason5driver]

Sorry to hear/ read...
However, good luck...!
And, I would like to see some pictures of the replacement/ install...

Thanks!
Jason

[Justin517]

Someone installed a possessed CDV... backwards.

[AnotherGeezer]

You sure got a ton of miles out of the original though. Very impressive.

[pleiades]

Why would that matter? Do you think it's swelling up so his hydraulics can't disengage it? :confused

It is clearly a hydraulic cylinder issue (unless the throwout arm, which never breaks, broke). Could be either one. One of those reasons I know how to drive my manual cars without using the clutch. :cool

Not sure what the OP's model year is but I was under the impression his car like many e39s uses a SAC. If the self-adjusting pressure plate wears out, the symptoms can be similar to what he described. I had a link to an old UUC rep explanation somewhere, hold on.... here.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13690539&postcount=5

[Cyrix2k]

Not sure what the OP's model year is but I was under the impression his car like many e39s uses a SAC. If the self-adjusting pressure plate wears out, the symptoms can be similar to what he described. I had a link to an old UUC rep explanation somewhere, hold on.... here.

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showpost.php?p=13690539&postcount=5
My car's a 6/96 build, one of the originals. I don't think it's the SAC because the pedal went from being relatively normal to engaging at the floor overnight. If something went wrong with the adjuster, I'd expect it to slowly work it's way down to the floor?


Sorry to hear/ read...
However, good luck...!
And, I would like to see some pictures of the replacement/ install...

Thanks!
Jason
I'll do my best :)

[webdesigner]

I ordered a new slave and master before checking mine

turned out it was the $25 rubber hose

[Cyrix2k]

Quick update:

I decided to look under the car yesterday for any obvious problems. It was cold out and when I drove onto my plastic ramps, they shattered. Arghhh. The car was sitting high enough on the broken ramps to get a floor jack under it so I jacked it up and threw jack stands under it as usual. My inspection did reveal a fluid dripping from bell housing and I'm 99% sure it's hydraulic fluid - it's too light to be motor oil. That means that my problem is almost certainly the slave cylinder. The rubber line looks as old as it should, but not destroyed. I was going to replace it, but it's bloody expensive so I'm going to let it go for now.

Anyway, I just ordered a new slave cylinder and new heater hoses (mine are still from 1996). Hopefully this fixes it! Also, pelican & realoem have the e34 540 slave cylinder listed as running 9/96 which is $134.25 vs the e39 slave cylinder which is $55. I looked further into the description and pelican has in red that the e34 runs to MAY 1996 and the e39 one runs FROM June 1996. I ordered the e39 slave cylinder so we'll see what happens. I suspect that even if it's the "wrong" part, that they're interchangeable. Yay for having one of the originals.

[TriniSpeC]

if you dont mind me asking, what does it feel like when your clutch is dragging?

[KevinMullins]

The rubber line looks as old as it should, but not destroyed. I was going to replace it, but it's bloody expensive so I'm going to let it go for now.

You should at least pull it completely off and blow through it to make sure it's totally clear. The rubber lines deteriorate internally and collapse in on themselves, otherwise will "look" fine on the outside.
Just worth the few minutes to know for sure.

[Cyrix2k]

if you dont mind me asking, what does it feel like when your clutch is dragging?
You feel it through the shifter. It will be harder to disengage and engage gears if the clutch is lightly dragging and gears will grind if it fails to disengage. If you rev match, you won't notice much except for entering first gear at a stop light. When I pulled into my driveway, I could not select reverse or 1st without moving which means the clutch was failing to fully disengage. In extreme circumstances, the car will move with the clutch pedal on the floor and a gear selected.

[dantheman67]

When I had my Mercedes Same thing happened to me. It turned out to be my clutch slave cylinder but I replaced both and the master showed evidence of leaks. Both are going to be the same age so you should replace them at the same time.

Good luck,

[Cyrix2k]

Oh, I know. I generally find the slave cylinders wear out first so I'm going to try this for now. Replacing the master cylinder looks like a real PITA that I'd prefer to avoid.

[Cyrix2k]

Good news, it was just the slave cylinder. I just installed the new one and it's all good again. Total repair time including setup and clean up was an hour and fifteen minutes, but I have hydraulic fluid everywhere. I didn't want to clamp the line since it's old...

Sorry to hear/ read...
However, good luck...!
And, I would like to see some pictures of the replacement/ install...

Thanks!
Jason
sorry man, I didn't get any pictures. The only camera I had laying around was my 5D and I didn't want it near brake fluid :-/ I'll probably be doing one on the e30 soon and the procedure is the same, but with better access. I can probably snap pics of that.

[topaz540i]

The masTer is so easy. I just did it.
The process is:
Drain fluid from slave bleeder
Remove trim cover
Remove pin from pedal so it flips up out of the way
Remove two bolts holding the master to the firewall
Unclip fluid lines, yes just simple clips
Reinstall
Bleed


The awkward angle sux. Your kidneys will be hating the doorsill when your done but the actual work is really easy once you figure out how it all bolts together

If you experimented with different angles, i would recommend new clutch pedal pivot bushings so you dont mess the new master up. I did new bushings and its rock solid side to side. I would also do a new clutch pedal return spring while your in there. Even with a new master and slave my pedal still doesnt come back up that last half inch.

[Cyrix2k]

Hmm, that's nice to know. I thought it would be a huge PITA. I personally wouldn't bother with the return spring... it's nice to have the pedal come up all the way, but realistically it doesn't make any difference. A lot of auto->manual swaps don't run the return spring at all. Now that you say that your pedal doesn't return all the way, I think mine does but I need to check to be sure. I swear it was returning all the way after I bled the new slave.

Also, for reference, my process for installing a slave cylinder:

Parts/tools:
-new slave cylinder
-brake fluid (preferably dot 4)
-13 mm deep socket
-11 mm line wrench
-7 mm wrench
-vacuum line
-empty bottle
-jack
-jack stands

1) jack the car up, place jack stands
2) loosen (1/4 turn) the hydraulic line with a 11mm line wrench. I had to use a pair of vice grips because someone stripped that nut in the past.
3) remove the two 13mm nuts that hold the slave cylinder in
----------------------------------------------------------------
4) go to bench, get new slave out, push the piston in. I put my slave cylinder in a vice with the hydraulic fitting facing up
5) add hydraulic (brake) fluid to the new slave until full, then slowly release the piston while adding brake fluid being careful not let any air into the system. Bring slave under car.
----------------------------------------------------------------
6) optionally clamp the rubber line going to the slave cylinder to prevent brake fluid from draining out of the clutch reservoir.
7) remove the hydraulic line from the old slave
8) loosely put new slave cylinder into transmission, attach hydraulic line
9) install the new slave cylinder into the transmission taking care to make sure the piston thing is in the clutch fork. You will feel moderate pressure - if there is no pressure, you missed the clutch fork. While holding the slave in place with one hand, thread a 13mm nut on with the other.
10) Thread on the other 13mm nut and alternate sides while tightening both nuts down.
11) At this point, you probably have pressure at the clutch pedal. It is now time to bleed. Fill the reservoir (under the driver's side air filter) with fresh brake fluid as far as possible. Using an empty bottle and vacuum hose, fill the bottom of the bottle with brake fluid and place vacuum line inside. Put the other end of the vacuum line on the bleed nipple of the slave being sure the end of the vacuum line is still submerged in brake fluid. Now open the nipple and pump the pedal. Several times usually does it, but do about 10+ to be sure. Make sure the reservoir always has fluid in it. Once done, tighten the bleed nipple. The system should be bled.
12) top off the brake fluid reservoir.
13) put everything else back together.

It's not a bad job except it's hard to keep hydraulic fluid from going everywhere. Make SURE to not get it on the paint because brake fluid eats paint!!!! Also be sure to hit the clutch fork or else you'll push the piston out of the slave cylinder when you press the clutch pedal. If this happens when the slave is installed in the transmission, it will push the rod into the bellhousing and you will have oodles of fun fishing it out. The worst case scenario is that the transmission will need to be removed to retrieve the rod since it can't stay there! Also, when the rod pops out, you can pretty much consider your new slave done for. I screwed mine up on the e30 and was able to reassemble with a lot of effort, but trust me, it's easy to make sure you catch the clutch fork. In that case, I must have caught the very edge of the fork because there was pressure and the clutch did begin to disengage before it popped off :(

[topaz540i]

I admit The master was a bit tedious due to the work angle and those really weird oragami folded clips they use. Same one as on the shifter linkage when installing a ssk if you remember that part. I think trying to figure out how to unlock the clip was the hardest part. After fiddling with it for awhile it eventually fell onto the floor somehow.

Im sure you know but dont try to bleed the slave with it out of the trans unless you have that device bavauto sells that holds the rod in. I forgot about it when i hooked my pressure bleeder up and blew the slave inside out. Couldnt believe the clutch line was accepting half a pint or more of fluid until i looked under the car and saw my slave had a huge brake fluid water balloon hanging out of the end of it lol

[Cyrix2k]

Quick update: Not only did replacing the slave cylinder fix the immediate problem where the clutch failed to fully disengage, it also fixed my clutch shudder. The clutch has been smooth ever since the new slave went in! Additionally, the transmission feels like a million bucks, the engagement point is finally predictable, and the pedal feels firm. The clutch has never felt this good during my ownership, lol.

[dantheman67]

Good. Glad to hear.

[Kevin Da Clean1]

Quick update: Not only did replacing the slave cylinder fix the immediate problem where the clutch failed to fully disengage, it also fixed my clutch shudder. The clutch has been smooth ever since the new slave went in! Additionally, the transmission feels like a million bucks, the engagement point is finally predictable, and the pedal feels firm. The clutch has never felt this good during my ownership, lol.

I hope my "eventual" clutch work will yield me with the same great results... :D