Is less grip more fun?

[ocpinstead]

I had to take my 2009 335d in to the dealer for service. While I was waiting, I went across the street to the Toyota dealer to test the new Scion FR-S. I was impressed with the idea of the car, but it didn't light my hair on fire when I drove it. After all, it doesn't come close to the driving experience of my car.

I have since watched some videos on the FR-S and one host urged tuners to leave the car alone - don't put sticky rubber on it, or a turbo, or any other performance mods because it will take away from the driving experience the engineer designed into it.

So, my question is - "When driving your car on a day-to-day basis, is less grip more fun?"

[RAAS al Guggy]

You ever seen James May's first ever power run? Where instead he just drives a Fiat Panda? If you haven't, watch it.

A car will be more fun when it's pushed to its limits.

[mryakan]

With many underpowered cars, more grip means slower off the line and that is not fun for most. But it is not fun either to be losing grip off the line everytime you dip into the throttle nor is it fun to pay for burnt rubber. All depends on how you drive, but if you are agressive, more rubber is usuAlly better, within reason.

[scbarr89]

You ever seen James May's first ever power run? Where instead he just drives a Fiat Panda? If you haven't, watch it.

A car will be more fun when it's pushed to its limits.

Perfect example

[ocpinstead]

A buddy wanted to drive my car, so we switched and i got a chance to try his 2011 328. We both have sport package and the same tires. My car can easily smoke the rear rubber where his is almost impossible to. Less grippy tires on his car would give it the same feel as mine, just at lower speeds, and in some cases make the car more fun.

[mryakan]

A buddy wanted to drive my car, so we switched and i got a chance to try his 2011 328. We both have sport package and the same tires. My car can easily smoke the rear rubber where his is almost impossible to. Less grippy tires on his car would give it the same feel as mine, just at lower speeds, and in some cases make the car more fun.

Is it auto? I can definitely squeal my tires even without trying. Burning rubber is of no interest to me, nor is it fun considering how much these tires cost, but can be done with traction control off.

[ezbmr]

Sure until you hit a wall or another car...

I prefer having my car grip and take turns faster, reliably, but some like to slip. It is up to you

[b1gturbo]

its only fun when ur 150mph and still no traction under full

[ocpinstead]

Mryakan, yup his is auto. There is no problem squealing in first, but it doesn't have the same power to brake away in higher gears.

Tire and car companies spend a lot of time and money matching their products. I find that some people go out and buy tires that are too grippy for the power they have, which I think in many cases takes away some of the fun.

[Bailz84]

Lol

[mryakan]

Mryakan, yup his is auto. There is no problem squealing in first, but it doesn't have the same power to brake away in higher gears.

Tire and car companies spend a lot of time and money matching their products. I find that some people go out and buy tires that are too grippy for the power they have, which I think in many cases takes away some of the fun.

What you said does not make any sense whatsoever, sorry. Safety comes first before fun anytime. Breaking traction at any gear above 1st or hard 2nd is just dangerous. Plowing into a wall or flying off a cliff is no fun. Childish? maybe, fun? Absolutely NOT. Trust me, in my earlier lives I drove on bad road on near bald tires and as fun as it was drifting, coming close a couple of times to going off cliffs when the tires lost traction made any thoughts of fun vanish on a nanosecond. Thank God for rocks that saved me from falling off, barely!

[slocar]

I've driven cars set up both ways, and honestly I think I'm probably in the crowd that likes a car with less grip even if it means going a little slower. I'm not talking falling off a cliff no grip either, but enough that when I nail it out of a corner the car actually starts to get a hint of oversteer.

For instance my e46 and my Miata on it's skinny tires feel a lot more fun to throw around than my e36 318i did with way too much rubber (235s on a car with 135hp ..) ... with the coilovers and the wide sticky tires and it's lack of power I could never even close to driving it near it's limit on the street. Sure, it was fun if I was trying to run away from someone on a twisty road, but really how often does that happen? Most of our driving time is spent on a daily commute, so that one time when I come around a corner a little quickly and nail the throttle I like to feel like I'm actually driving the car, not just nailing the gas pedal.

[ocpinstead]

Which part doesn't make any sense? The fact that a 328 can't chirp the tires after 2nd gear or that tire and car companies spend a lot of money and resources pairing their product.

And, like slocar, I'm not talking about driving ike a maniac on bald tires on a mountain road with no guard rail. What I'm referring to being able to feel the car lose a bit of traction at more reasonable speeds.

[mryakan]

Which part doesn't make any sense? The fact that a 328 can't chirp the tires after 2nd gear or that tire and car companies spend a lot of money and resources pairing their product.

And, like slocar, I'm not talking about driving ike a maniac on bald tires on a mountain road with no guard rail. What I'm referring to being able to feel the car loose a bit of traction at more reasonable speeds.

This is the part that makes no sense:


Mryakan, yup his is auto. There is no problem squealing in first, but it doesn't have the same power to brake away in higher gears.


Higher gear and reasonable speed do not usually go together. And losing grip in higher gears or higher speeds is just plain dangerous.

By the way, companies usually optimize for many factors, including handling and fuel economy, to name a couple. In fact, one of the knocks on the new F30 is that it comes with skinny tires which make it handle worse than it should and the reason is that BMW wanted lower rolling resistance to boost the fuel economy. Just food for thought.

[BnGRacing]

Less grip isn't necessarily more or less fun.

For instance, a Dodge Caravan would be miserable whether it had dryrotted all-seasons or Hoosier slicks. I think it really comes down to simple & lightweight cars being more fun as you have to thrash them in order to move and you feel everything b/c the suspension is spongey/worn out. Think of old Civics, GTIs, and my personal fav; the Isuzi Impulse (loved that heap).

[pbonsalb]

I do not think less grip is more fun. If you think it is, you are just not driving hard enough to have enough fun with more grip.

I do agree that less grip is cheaper, reduces the limits so they are easier to exceed, and is often enough for most people. Probably the thought on the FRS is that it is a nicely balanced car as is and if you added more grip, you would want more power, and so forth. I am looking forward to what the tuners do with them. Wider wheels, coilovers, and twice the power should be fun.

[motomanb3]

perfect combo, sticky falkens up front and 25 y/o 195 factories out back. turn and stop on a dime and drift whenever you mash the gas. what i run on my daily

[slocar]

I do not think less grip is more fun. If you think it is, you are just not driving hard enough to have enough fun with more grip.

I do agree that less grip is cheaper, reduces the limits so they are easier to exceed, and is often enough for most people. Probably the thought on the FRS is that it is a nicely balanced car as is and if you added more grip, you would want more power, and so forth. I am looking forward to what the tuners do with them. Wider wheels, coilovers, and twice the power should be fun.

That's the whole point of less grip: to make it easier to have fun on a public road without driving like a lunatic.

[elerner61]

That's the whole point of less grip: to make it easier to have fun on a public road without driving like a lunatic.

Winner, winner chicken dinner! What I miss sorely about my Miata is that illusion of speed. Having a blast at 50 while wringing every bit out of the engine is certainly safer for you and others than at 90. So much about going fast is stoking your ego.

[weedshoes]

you don't consider breaking traction on public roads driving like a lunatic?

[slocar]

Winner, winner chicken dinner! What I miss sorely about my Miata is that illusion of speed. Having a blast at 50 while wringing every bit out of the engine is certainly safer for you and others than at 90. So much about going fast is stoking your ego.
Miatas are awesome. I loved driving mine for the brief time I had it. :alright

[pbonsalb]

Sliding around going slowly is fun only if you have never experienced sliding around going fast. There is a reason I am not driving an E30 318i. No way would I find it more fun than my E36 M3 or E90 M3.

[RBE36323]

Rallying is fun under controlled conditions, On a race track less grip may be more fun if your at a motoring event.

But for daily driving? More grip is better especially in wet weather when the roads become slippery oil slicks that even the slightest corner too fast will send you spinning.

I always use to enjoy getting the rear end out on a deserted roundabout on a rainy night with cheapass tyres. but in my older years i enjoy more traction and the ability to take a corner with confidence.

Give me soft suspension and traction anyday of the week

[lithium726]

less grip is less fun, but a lighter car with a better feel, more balanced chassis and more accessible limits (power wise) is also more fun.

I can't stand the "fighting for traction at a light" or "oh shit, I'm gonna plow, gotta dial it back" feelings...

[TerryChromem5]

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