Engine Bracket Nightmare Story

[poopin04]

So three weeks ago I was gearing up to change the oil for the first time on the wagon, which was well long over due. I get down to the work and get under the car and I discover this crap.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=1184&pictureid=9588
And then noticed this!:eyecrazy
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=1184&pictureid=9589

Needless to say I pulled my ass out from under the car so damn fast. :eek:

I was so pissed and scared. Pissed because the PO didn't mention this at all to me, fricken skumball bastard.:mad And scared because I've had people driving around with me with this ticking time bomb ready to give way at any given moment.

After the discovery and after calming down I contacted Steve at Blunt Tech and gave him the run down. Sure enough with my luck, for the first time ever Steve didn't have the part I needed. :( But he did put in the order and a week later I had it from Germany and ready to install. So a buddy of mine hit me up and told me had all extractors and tools to get the job done. I jumped for joy thinking to myself "YES! Saving money baby!"

But once again as my luck has it, a second bolt broke on the way out. So not only did we have the original bolt to remove now we've added a second one to the list.:smilielazOh, well wutcha gonna do. So we got to work.

Here are the unfortunate results.

http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=1184&pictureid=9590
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=1184&pictureid=9591
This above is the lower right bolt. Somehow the damn hole got fucked up and cracked. Not a damn clue how this happened. :pissed I figured oky so this one got messed up lets try to get the second bolt out and just run three bolts to the bracket.

Luck would have it, that this car hates me.:bluecryin
http://www.r3vlimited.com/board/picture.php?albumid=1184&pictureid=9592

The damn extractor broke in the hole we drilled in the second bolt. I'm now running the car with 2 bolts on the left side of the bracket and convinced the damn car is cursed.

My next steps are to try again to extract the bolt with the broken extractor inside and run it with three bolts. But what I wanted to find out is what I can do about that broken "hole." Is there an engine support brace I can get for the car or is this something I'll have to get custom made. Any help from anyone would be AWESOME!!

[bigsixe34]

Those Easy Outs are hardened steel and won't really let you get anywhere. From the look of the picture it would appear that it is a little off-center, which is what killed you.
edit: About the broken hole, I'm by no means a metals expert, but I would assume the easiest thing to do would have someone weld it all shut and re-tap the hole. Not the end of the world.

[5mall5nail5]

Block is now trash. Needs to be welded.

[Layne]

EZ-outs have a 97% failure rate. I'm a professional machinist and I do not use them. There's nothing you can do now without pulling the engine.

[Sneezy]

http://www.radardetector.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/screwed.jpg

[bigsixe34]

^That's a funny pic :rofl
Fear not though, OP! Pulling an m50 is super easy and you'll get a chance to learn a lot.

[poopin04]

Those Easy Outs are hardened steel and won't really let you get anywhere. From the look of the picture it would appear that it is a little off-center, which is what killed you.
edit: About the broken hole, I'm by no means a metals expert, but I would assume the easiest thing to do would have someone weld it all shut and re-tap the hole. Not the end of the world.



Block is now trash. Needs to be welded.

I was thinking maybe of trying to find someone to weld it up and re-tap it or simply have someone weld the damn bracket to the block, but that sounds like a horrible idea after awhile. But I personally would rather find a way to make a brace for the engine to sit on for support. Or I could just go down the swap engine route.:evil2


http://www.radardetector.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/10/screwed.jpg

I couldn't agree more!

PS I'm printing this picture out and putting it on my dash board.


EZ-outs have a 97% failure rate. I'm a professional machinist and I do not use them. There's nothing you can do now without pulling the engine.

Yeah, I would have loved if someone had told me that a lot sooner.:(

[Layne]

Yeah, I would have loved if someone had told me that a lot sooner.:(

No one ever asks for help before they break something.


Welding cast iron at all is a very tricky art that no professional shop is going to attempt. Welding cast iron to aluminum (or any 2 different metals really) is completely impossible.

[poopin04]

"No one ever asks for help before they break something.


Welding cast iron at all is a very tricky art that no professional shop is going to attempt. Welding cast iron to aluminum (or any 2 different metals really) is completely impossible."


I'm one of those self-doubting people so I ask a butt load of people before attempting things in my car. Unfortunately some people aren't too kind in giving out advice unless they're making money doing so but that's another issue I have with a vendor owner. I think I read more positive stuff about extractors than negatives so I took a shot in the dark and got burned.

Well there goes that thought of getting it welded together.

[5mall5nail5]

You can't weld the bracket to the block its aluminum to iron, and you can't weld the block in the car because it needs to be preheated and cooled slow since its cast iron.

[poopin04]

This problem hurts my head. :-(

[Sneezy]

Two choices, really, if you want to keep it. Drive it until something catastrophic happens and then put another engine in it or put another engine in it before something catastrophic happens.

[93FIM5]

No one ever asks for help before they break something.


Welding cast iron at all is a very tricky art that no professional shop is going to attempt. Welding cast iron to aluminum (or any 2 different metals really) is completely impossible.

Sure you can you just have to use explosives.

[Layne]

I'm one of those self-doubting people so I ask a butt load of people before attempting things in my car. Unfortunately some people aren't too kind in giving out advice unless they're making money doing so but that's another issue I have with a vendor owner. I think I read more positive stuff about extractors than negatives so I took a shot in the dark and got burned.

I'm talking about asking us. The forum, the only people in the world that truly know what the hell is going on. We all have buddies that would muck up our cars if we let them. You can't trust anyone! (except us)

Would be interesting to know how your friend cracked the hole. You can clearly see in the first photo it isn't cracked, and then it is.

[poopin04]

I'm talking about asking us. The forum, the only people in the world that truly know what the hell is going on. We all have buddies that would muck up our cars if we let them. You can't trust anyone! (except us)

Would be interesting to know how your friend cracked the hole. You can clearly see in the first photo it isn't cracked, and then it is.

LOL, I know what you mean about buddies messing up each others cars. But I've known him for awhile and we both own e30's and he helps me all the time.The thing that gets me is we did this same thing on another one of our friends E30 which had a snapped bolt when removing the support bracket so he could sand and paint it. (please don't ask, it's what he wanted to do. I don't see why I'd want to paint that bracket) But we used the same exact tools and steps and it worked perfectly fine.

Honestly we both have no idea how it happened. We drilled the hole in the center of the bolt and put the extractor in and as he was wrenching it out it just cracked. The last photo is the hole above the one that cracked that also had a snapped bolt.

[Layne]

Looks like a lot of hammer marks on it, plus you missed the center on both bolts. It's pretty critical to get it exactly centered. The force to crack that housing should have been far greater than the force to break the EZ-out.

[ross1]

What a pisser.
You stand a chance of "working" the easy-out out. A sharp bit with LOTS of pressure turning very slowly is about all that will drill that bitch. Doing this will be next to impossible, especially in situ.
Personally, I would concentrate on the remaining holes if the EZO doesn't budge. Drilling the holes larger and perhaps deeper* to an oversize on the broken boss will probably get you 3 good attachments which will be fine, even two should hold things. I'm guessing this is the left side which takes more stress so you may wish to eliminate any rough shifting from now on.
* Drilling into a water jacket isn't the end of the world, an oil gallery is a different story

If you are able to weld a stud onto the EZO you'll probably be able to back it out.

Your bracket and bolts broke because things were loose. whatever repair you end up with watch for the bolts to become loose to avoid a repeat performance.

[poopin04]

* Drilling into a water jacket isn't the end of the world, an oil gallery is a different story



I totally understood you till this part. LOL Thanks man. I'm looking into many options and contacting tons of people. Oh and by the way the wagon is an auto.

[Layne]

If you are able to weld a stud onto the EZO you'll probably be able to back it out.


One common practice for a broken bolt is to weld a nut to it and then use a wrench on the nut to remove it. The heat helps loosen up the rust etc. This may work on the EZ out since it's still completely inside the broken bolt piece. I still wouldn't be comfortable with only 3 bolts, but it beats just 2 for sure.

[ross1]

One common practice for a broken bolt is to weld a nut to it and then use a wrench on the nut to remove it. The heat helps loosen up the rust etc. This may work on the EZ out since it's still completely inside the broken bolt piece. I still wouldn't be comfortable with only 3 bolts, but it beats just 2 for sure.
It only broke when on the last bolt. Two should hold, three wil be fine, especially against presumably the monstrous torque of a twenty year old M20.

[poopin04]

It only broke when on the last bolt. Two should hold, three wil be fine, especially against presumably the monstrous torque of a twenty year old M20.

Umm...the car this is about is an e34 1994 525iT with a M50. My signature is misleading.

[ross1]

Back in the sixties GM had a problem with left side motor mounts seperating on acceleration which would jam mechanical throttle linkages. In typical GM fashion of the time the fix was to put a band-aid on it which consisted of a cable running from the chassis to a point on the left side of the engine to limit it's motion if(when) the mount broke.
Carrying this solution one step further you could strap down the engine tight against the bracket using a wire rope. Crude but effective.

[poopin04]

Back in the sixties GM had a problem with left side motor mounts seperating on acceleration which would jam mechanical throttle linkages. In typical GM fashion of the time the fix was to put a band-aid on it which consisted of a cable running from the chassis to a point on the left side of the engine to limit it's motion if(when) the mount broke.
Carrying this solution one step further you could strap down the engine tight against the bracket using a wire rope. Crude but effective.

Well this is the modern day and age, I'll get some zip ties. :D J/K

When I bought my e30, the majority of the vacuum hoses were all zip tied and electrical taped b/c hose clamps are so expensive. Not to mention his plastic bumper upgrade was zip tied on too.

[johnnye23]

Did you soak the area with aero kroil or nut buster before trying to use an easy out ? It really helps a lot, as well as heating up the area too prior to using the easy out. I think you have pretty much done yourself in on this one , you may find a shop with a high speed carbide bit to try and remove the broken bit by grinding it out then extract the broken bolt. :(

[paperplane94]

Ask the previous owner when the accident was.

[Currie846]

Needs to be welded. http://www.**********.info/7.jpg

[attack eagle]

I hate ez offs. they aren't

if you can drill out most of the bolt you can probably heat it with propane and get it to come out, i.e. no tensions when all that is left is the outer skin of the bolt/threads.
the cracked boss though... time to look for an m52.

[ross1]

Way too many here thinking that the sky has fallen.
"Fix" the holes you can, even the cracked one.
This isn't the end of the motor. The attachment is over engineered to begin with.
Virtually every big displacement American V-8 is attached with THREE 3/8" bolts that survive just fine under far more stress than this little wheezer will give them.

[Sneezy]

Of course it can be repaired, most anything can. If it is a DD I'd get as many bolts in as I could with the engine in place and drive it until it quit, but that is me.

For the amount of effort it would take to properly repair it just swapping in a new engine is a better choice, in my opinion. They're cheap and readily available, plus it is an excuse to upgrade a bit.

[poopin04]

Good morning everyone. I just wanted to thank you all for all your advice and suggestions. Honestly I feel a lot less stressed about the situation than before b/c now I know I could postpone engine swapping or just flat out selling the car. I'll make sure to keep everyone updated once I figure out my next move or I'll just build a FS thread.

[ross1]

or I'll just build a FS thread.
Touring, eh?
Hmmmm, let me know if you panic again