PDA

View Full Version : RMS Stage 1 Vortech or AA Stage 1 Rotrex OR DINAN Stage 1 - Need to pick a kit.



PITT M3 RR
05-09-2012, 05:03 AM
Coming over from a turbo DSM, I want to try S/C.
My custom user title says it all. I was deciding between an s52 swap or a kit and I said screw it, sunk cost on the motor already so ill do both.

I'm in my build stage where I want to pick my poison :evil2 My options

FIRST - Stage 1 RMS Vortech V2SQ. This kit is new and is only missing a tune. Catch is, it's from 2005 and has been sitting in original packaging since. I know RMS has a bad rep, but their tune isnt being used anyway and I really won't be dealing with them I guess since I called RMS and asked, they took my number and said they'd have a tech call, but no one got back to me. I also read they've shipped out kits that were missing alot of parts...is there a PDF for install anywhere I can run though this guys first to make sure? The seller is willing to meet me in person on the way during his 10 hour trip for parts so I could check all this in person before I buy.

SECOND - AA kit with ROTREX C30-94 that has been used except the blower has been replaced with a new unit 3K miles ago. This kit is missing a tune and injectors, but includes an intercooler and oil cooler. Seller is reputable for shipping and going turbo which is why he removed it. This kit is 200 dollars more.

THIRD - DINAN Stage 1 V2 Vortec . This kit has 40K miles on it and has been installed and randomly tracked since 2004. I spoke to the owner and he knows what he's talking about. It's 100% complete, but also 900 dollars more than the rotrex and 1100 more than the RMS kit.

From my reading experience (love night shift) I've learned

Vortec is better for bigger power later in RPM band and in upgrading boost, but the low end kick isnt as potent as the rotrex which is pretty maxed out at about 10PSI. Vortech is rebuildable and will need it at smaller intervals, but still nothing too bad. vortech is larger making an intercooler set up alittle tougher to overcome. Also Ive heard they can't be run under 25 degrees and then Ive heard this is BS???

Rotrex are smaller units and should see 100K+ before they die IF properly maintained. They cannot be rebuilt even if superchargerrebuilds says they can. This will kick lower, but isnt really upgradeable for more power later.

I have an S52 in my basement that I am going to CES HG and ARP stud, but that will be later. My S50 is running excellent at the moment with only 95K, so I will likely install and use this now while I work on the S52.

Power desires aside, which blower can I assume more reliable for daily use? All temps, safe AFR's, safe boost. Basicaly they kit and tune will be written to be overengineered so as to maintain streetability and health of my motors.

dinanstu
05-09-2012, 06:53 AM
Does the Dinan kit come with the tune? Being complete thats certainly a bonus....

Hard to believe RMS has a kit sitting around for 7 years and they just thought to sell it....However, does it have a warranty?

I have no idea what these kits are like in sub zero temps...they are oil fed for lubrication, so that should be a concern with high speed bearings....

pbonsalb
05-09-2012, 07:05 AM
I ran my Vortech kit year round in NH. After a few years, I did add an oil pan heater patch ($25) that I plugged in for an hour on brutally cold mornings. Prior to that, I had occasionally heard a screech on a cold start on a brutally cold morning. Not 25F, but more like 0F days.

I would buy the RMS kit for $2000. It has upgrade potential. The little AA Rotrex C30 would not interest me. No centrifugal is going to provide great boost response. If it was a C38, it would be more interesting.

The Dinan kit is also good, if you can find reason to justify the price. If it comes with the tune, that helps since a tune will cost you $800 to $1200 with air mass meter (or scaler) and larger injectors.

PITT M3 RR
05-09-2012, 07:05 AM
Does the Dinan kit come with the tune? Being complete thats certainly a bonus....

Hard to believe RMS has a kit sitting around for 7 years and they just thought to sell it....However, does it have a warranty?

I have no idea what these kits are like in sub zero temps...they are oil fed for lubrication, so that should be a concern with high speed bearings....


DINAN kit is complete with a tune, yes. Do the miles turn you off at all though? For 1100 more, the most expensive piece of the kit is well used. I'd rather replace hoses and clamps over the S/C itself.

The RMS kit is a private seller who never used it. He owns 517tranny in NJ. tune is missing because he never send his OBD2 in for the flash. Im OBD1 so its not a concern.

As for temps, I was hoping for a real world heads up!


I ran my Vortech kit year round in NH. After a few years, I did add an oil pan heater patch ($25) that I plugged in for an hour on brutally cold mornings. Prior to that, I had occasionally heard a screech on a cold start on a brutally cold morning. Not 25F, but more like 0F days.

I would buy the RMS kit for $2000. It has upgrade potential. The little AA Rotrex C30 would not interest me. No centrifugal is going to provide great boost response. If it was a C38, it would be more interesting.

The Dinan kit is also good, if you can find reason to justify the price. If it comes with the tune, that helps since a tune will cost you $800 to $1200 with air mass meter (or scaler) and larger injectors.

Thanks for that heads up! Makes the Vortech alot more desirable in my eyes. It gets cold here in PA too. Certainly the RMS kit seems the best at 1800 bucks and only missing a tune, BUT I've read RMS shipped kits missing MANY parts and thats a possibility too...I can fabricate, but to an extent I like the term KIT for a reason haha. I'll have to make sure its all there when I check the kit out. Ill search for a parts list or PDF.

DINAN kit owner just notified me he'd accept 2700 shipped - Still more and I am sure I can source a good tune for 900 dollars on the RMS. And as for MAF on obd1, should I get a 3.5? or can I tune the stock 3.0? Theres in the classifides now for 100 to my door. Im a little foggy on the HFM / MAF in FI application here.

dinanstu
05-09-2012, 07:19 AM
I have more miles on my kit, but I know its inevitable that the blower will have to go in for a rebuild/upgrade.

Newer is better, if that is in fact the case....RMS kits are fine and installation instructions are available. AA tunes are excellent and that is the direction I am going...that would be ~$2700...

Heater patch is good idea...

PITT M3 RR
05-09-2012, 07:33 AM
I guess we've taken care of this thread. Seems RMS should be my choice.

Just leaves the HFM issue. Do I need a signal charger, 3.5 or just stock?

And tune, Why is AA your choice? I sent an email to miller...here's a copy. Thoughts?

"Hi guys, I've been reading and reading and reading...(BimmerForums.com) I am picking up an AA Rotrex S/C kit for my 95 M3 with the C30-94 unit or an RMS Stage 1 with the V2Sq Vortech (still deciding). The kits dont include a tune or injectors which is what I was looking for becasue I wanted to use you guys!

I also have an S52 in my basement that I want to CES headgasket and ARP Stud. My question is if I pick up injectors, let you know what flow # they are and my other mods like S52, 3.5 HFM ETC...Do you write a base chip for my set up and then I tune myself on my PC based on some form of logger or wideband? I've watched the videos in the thread that was made and they were great. I am just unclear on what exactly I log (or how) to see where I need to adjust timing, fuel, vanos.

Very interested in your product!

Thanks,"

pbonsalb
05-09-2012, 07:40 AM
Don't start buying tune parts until the tuner tells you what parts work with the tune. Not all 3.5 HFMs are the same for example, should you decide you want a tune for the 3.5 HFM (stage 1 tunes typically used the stock HFM with a scaler). For tuners, try AA, TRM, TT and Technica. Sorry, I forgot Miller. Call to find out the prices so you know what you are looking at for a total price.

Missing parts could be a pain. You need to determine what should be in the kit. On the older brackets, whether Dinan or RMS, some spacers were used behind the main lower bracket bar and under the angle bracket at the oil filter housing, and longer bolts replaced the stock bolts in these locations.

Assuming the Dinan kit has the OBD1 tune you need, that would be fine. Tunes have been improved in the 8 years since 2004 should you buy a new tune today, but the original one should work since it is working for the current owner. I don't know the EWS systems (anti theft), if any, for OBD1, but the ECU may not operate the car without bypassing or aligning the EWS. This is not very expensive.

PITT M3 RR
05-09-2012, 06:07 PM
Ok got it. I imagine the S50 universal tune will be cheaper than having to write a tune for an OBD1 S52. Is this correct?

My S50 is running great, will I notice anything going S52 over the S50? Will it be worth my touble to swap it to OBD1?

Lastly, youve listed a number of tuners. Is there a place I should start first, or just try them all and find the best price?