Miller MAF Group buy...

[e24mpwr]

Those of you who were at SESF probably saw the cluster of folks around my car, tinkering with my apparently sick AFM.

Unfortunately, the price has almost tripled since I bought my last one (list is damn near $950), and even the Bosch equivalent is well north of $600.

For the flower of 1970's technology. :shifty

After spending a lot of time on the phone with the guys at Miller Performance and others, I'm pretty sure I'm going to to with their MAF setup. It is on its third generation, having been developed with the luxury of a couple M6's in their shop for a long period of time to work out the bugs some people experienced with their Gen. II product.

It is supposed to really wake up the M88, and offer really nice benefits for S38 guys as well. I was talking with Tom T. over the weekend, and he said Scott J's E30 became a completely different car once the Miller MAF went in.

I'm working out a group buy with them that should offer a pretty significant discount. The discussion we had was five guys to enable it, and between myself, Tom and Greg I think we have a solid head-start. This thread is intended to gather feedback on the interest level.

Some details (still to be confirmed by the guys at Miller)
- The group buy will include all the E24 and E28 variants - M30, M88, S38
- The group buy will include the WAR chip (programmable module) as an option
- The group buy will likely be run by a site that aggregates group buys. They handle the money, take a small percentage for their trouble and keeps me out of the loop and keep Miller from having to manage the sorta-committed orders. In my advancing years I can't remember the name of the site. More to come on that.

I think most folks running non-modified, stock motors won't need the WAR chip. If you've been tuned or want the flexibility to tune your chip, it is an interesting option.

Before I get a chance to talk to them again and confirm pricing, I don't want to release the prices we discussed. I think it is safe to say it is very worthwhile vs. the price of a new AFM, and the benefit is much newer technology that potentially offers a lot more responsiveness from your motor.

Please let me know if you're interested, and how interested. Assume the discount from the $395 list for the standard and $700+ for standard + WAR is healthy. I'll bring back more info shortly.

In the meantime, here's a link to their stuff:
https://www.millerperformancecars.com/catalogue.html?page=shop.browse&category_id=6

[HotWaterMusic]

I know I will be the sole voice of dissension here, but I installed a Miller MAF on my otherwise stock E24 and saw absolutely ZERO difference in how it drove, idled, or accelerated. Performance was literally unchanged from the day before with a perfect working AFM. The only difference I DID see was that removing the oil dipstick no longer made the idle drop with the Miller MAF. I was told that was normal with the Miller. As a very cost effective way to replace a broken AFM, it's brilliant. As a performance part, it's been--for me at least--non existent. Now I am currently having some serious issues with my car, and don't think it's in any way related to MAF, but having the MAF there though have made the problems harder to diagnose because no manual, and most people who work on these cars, account for a MAF--it's all AFM. As always, YMMV.

[GI Jonas]

I almost pulled the trigger on one about one week before settling on an MS unit and being done with it.Learning curves are obviously much different but its really hard to justify when you can buy a unit that will control EVERYTHING with great resolution and have a few hundred dollars left over for other goodies.I have heard good things and I have heard bad on the WAR chip.IMO, for the price I feel I should be reading far less disappointment about it. My .02

[samsonevickis]

My only concern as it has been in the past is the issue with my Motronic in my 84 633, I have been told I can't chip it, but I don't know enough about the intricacies to say if it can or can't be done.

If I could do this with my ECU/DME in my 84, I'd be interested, but I'd need to know a better price.

[jeffcfp1]

Lee,
Add a category in your poll "I already have one". I think its a great product but custom tuning is the biggest problem with these given the differences in mods on most enthusiest's M motors. A library of S38/M88 tunes would be most helpful. Several guys including myself have had to buy separate used laptops for tuning as their software doesn't work on Windows 7.

[claylakem6]

Lee,.

Do you have someone in your area that can help tune with MS? A dyno is almost essential. I believe you would be happier and achieve a greater performance increase with a tuneable standalone engine management. I have a spare AFM if you need it but really...... get rid of that restriction.
The AFM does work well as a door stop.

[FernandoBunster]

I'm interested for the right savings.

The Miller MAF sure does look like the MAFs in many other cars, including my e34 Touring. Wonder if it can be sourced through another way?

[e24mpwr]

Lee,.

Do you have someone in your area that can help tune with MS? A dyno is almost essential. I believe you would be happier and achieve a greater performance increase with a tuneable standalone engine management. I have a spare AFM if you need it but really...... get rid of that restriction.
The AFM does work well as a door stop.

Clay - I probably do, but I don't think I can afford it. My understanding is a standalone setup will exceed $1500, and the demands of the family and three spawn make that hard to get to.

We've got a spare AFM from another source on the way to Greg to see if it helps the running issues I've got w/ Cosmo. Honestly, that is all I'm looking for - a car that runs happy. This car has never quite developed the power it should. Craig's bone-stock M635 is a beast compared to my car.


I'm interested for the right savings.

The Miller MAF sure does look like the MAFs in many other cars, including my e34 Touring. Wonder if it can be sourced through another way?

I think the MAF itself isn't so hard, it is the MAF-->ECU integration that is hard to do for folks that aren't Miller/MarkD/Dinan, etc.

Miller has turned a couple generations of this thing. I've seen results on both ends of the spectrum over at MyE28, so I'm going to be sorting for informed opinions in the next week or two. I have a business trip coming up to China/Japan that is supposed to start the first week of June, so I really need to sort it out fairly quickly (though my boss is talking about pushing it to July...).

Anyway, I'll report back...


Lee,
Add a category in your poll "I already have one". I think its a great product but custom tuning is the biggest problem with these given the differences in mods on most enthusiest's M motors. A library of S38/M88 tunes would be most helpful. Several guys including myself have had to buy separate used laptops for tuning as their software doesn't work on Windows 7.

Jeff - I appreciate the feedback. If anyone else has experience with the Miller MAF, especially on S38/M88, I'd love to hear about it. (I'm not sure I can edit the poll)

[stoner]

Just my $.02. I was in on the very first group buy for the Miller MAF. There was no mention of having to upgrade the socket on my ECU to accomodate the new chip that came with the MAF. When it arrived I noticed the difference in the number of pins right away and stashed the MAF away for a couple of years. Last summer I finally got the nerve up to resolder a socket to my old ECU and it went horribly, it did not work. I cracked the ECU board and ordered a new one to do the surgery on. I did not test it but was told it was functioning before I purchased it. After socket surger it did not work. The car wouldn't even fire up and there it sits.

I bought another ECU this winter after a bit of a hassle to get it and I am just waiting. I would really love to get the old girl running again. All other changes to wiring required for the Miller MAF have been performed but I am kind of gun shy. It is my understanding that the M30/B35 already has the newer socket type with more pins but the M30/B34 doesn't so beware if you have the older M30. You will either have to pay someone to upgrade your ECU or learn how to do it yourself. I hope you have better luck than me.
Regards,

Dwight

[arctic745]

I too was in the original group buy in 2007 for my S38 M6. Install went pretty easily. Original chip was very, very rich. Update is still rich, but not as bad. I've posted a few times about it on MyE28 so won't repeat, but it was a worthwhile upgrade despite some cold running and idle stumbles. Rev's more freely, less "on cam" feel, higher rev limiter and have tracked it pretty extensively with this setup.

I might be interested in the Gen3 depending on price and whether I have to re-do any electrical modifications. It does sound like a pretty good upgrade. Not sure I want to have to mess with the WAR chip.

And Lee, they look way cleaner -- sorry I didn't think to show you mine at Sharkfest -- car was like 30 feet away from yours.

Dave

[88m53453]

wish i had seen that Dave

[M6ermike]

I also got in on the original group buy and it took about a year to straighten out the running rich problem -- but Miller did some extensive testing and shipped me a replacement chip at no additional cost. Gained lots of experience in removing the ECU and replacing chips! Now my car runs very well -- it purrrrrrs -- and along with the Dinan cam gear, I have excellent low-end torque. Don't really notice any increase in power, but the engine is smoother and more responsive -- probably because that damn flap is no longer sticking! Am very pleased with the setup -- and do not have the War Chip.

[eric1ono]

I'll chime in as well as being in on what I believe to be the first group buy for the Miller MAF. I've got the Gen I with the machined MAF sensor housing. I was like Stoner in that it took awhile before I finally got around to actually installing it. And, like Dave, I am satisfied with it overall. I feel like the throttle response off idle is better, but I don't feel any more power higher up.

As for being interested in this group buy, I am, but probably only if they offered some sort of loyalty discount. Don't know if I could stomach making my Gen I version an expensive paper weight...

Stoner,

PM me, or start a new thread, with what kinds of issues you are seeing. I ran into some myself where I had a no start issue, but got it resolved finally.

Eric

[Cjarvis]

You can put me down for one Lee. No WAR chip.

[jeffcfp1]

I do believe when combined with war chip you can end up with a ton more power, not just throttle response/low end torque if you have some other mods as I do. Just haven't got on a dyno or installed a wideband to take it further, although I have tuned a bit more aggressively than the tunes from Miller w/o apparent side affects. War chip does allow you to program out the O2 sensor, which seemed to mitigate the minor surging I would previously experience.