Steering Shake on Highway - Steering Spindle/Bearing?

[quail]

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF33&mospid=47484&btnr=32_0635&hg=32&fg=30

I had the opportunity to tell a BMW tech all of my struggles with this intermittent steering shake I have been having on the highway. Just to rephrase, as I am sure all of you have heard over and over, I have replaced every piece of the front end from outside in, except the actual steering rack. I still have a terrible steering wobble at speed that comes and goes.

The tech responded with, "Well it comes down to 2 things. It could be the rack or a cheaper try would be the steering shaft from the column to the rack. If the bearing in that shaft is bad it could be binding up in certain situations which would explain the intermittent part."

Being as I recently found the shaking loosened up one of the actual bolts affixing the rack to the chassis, i find it hard to believe it could be this bearing, but it is definitely worth a look.

I know my power steering fluid is leaking, but I dont believe the rack itself is. The tie rods were done last fall and the boots were replaced. These are still dry and squeezing didnt show any signs of being filled with fluid. I know the PS lines are leaking from the reservoir and the metal coil attached to the rack. If I jack up the front end, turn the car on, and rotate the steering wheel, I can hear is pushing fluid around like a slurping sound when I get close to each lock. Sounds like there may be some air in the system, which would make sense since the lines are leaking.

However, I keep topping it off to keep it full, and the slightest bit of movement of the steering wheel when parked moves the wheels. There is no dead spot on center.

When the car is on the highway, and it starts shaking, the steering on center feel diminishes and there is a bit of play, plus the car pulls to the left.

Do you think the stress of highway speeds could be acting on the bearing the tech is talking about causing my problems?

I believe he is referring to 07 STEERING SPINDLE BEARING STEEL 132311158686

Has anyone had a similar experience?

[BMW325issport]

i had the same exact problem, put new tires on, balanced them and it went away. How many miles are on ur tires and try rotating them and see if that helps

[quail]

tires are brand spanking new, less than 2000 miles..Yokohama avid envigors. I have had 3 sets of tires on the stock rims on the car (old summers, snows, new yoko's), and tried 2 sets of wheels from other cars. Confident it is not wheel/tire related. Shake present on each set, not present on the donor cars.

[BSloss13]

tires are brand spanking new, less than 2000 miles..Yokohama avid envigors. I have had 3 sets of tires on the stock rims on the car (old summers, snows, new yoko's), and tried 2 sets of wheels from other cars. Confident it is not wheel/tire related. Shake present on each set, not present on the donor cars.

I have these exact symptoms, and I have been leaking power steering fluid since I got the car 2 years ago, until the pump finally went and I haven't bothered doing anything about it... After reading this I'm 100% sure it's something with the power steering and I have been trying to pinpoint this forever... Will be following this thread and also will contribute if I find anything out

I'll also add that I have replaced the steering column guibo and shaft

[quail]

Yeah. I've replaced the steering column guibo too, but not the shaft. Though I was told it would be the lower bearing not the actual shaft. From what I have researched the bearing would be billable for a 6 hour job at a dealer. Sounds like they attack it by disassembling the steering from the steering wheel and then ignition etc. I am hoping that by removing the rack I will get easier access to it since that way seems much less labor intensive.

I think I am going to make one last stop at my local indy shop and see what they think before I order a new (refurbished) rack.

[AntManC]

i have the same symptoms and have replaced everything to do with the steering as you guys a noted above.
my tie-rods are about 6 months old but i suspect bad road conditions have caused the inner tie rod ball joints that connected to the rack have let go.
from the research that i have done it doesn't take much to damage the inner tie rod ball joint and then cause this steering issue.
my car is booked in tomorrow to have the professionals over look everything so i'll give you an update.
i'll also add that i had new stabilizer links installed with the new tie rods and i had to replace the links last weekend, the joints came loose and sloppy.
(i guess issues like this will come up more often with lowered cars with stiff suspension...)

[baron10]

Check your wheel balance

[quail]

Check your wheel balance

read the thread... I have had 5 sets of tires on 3 sets of rims, balanced, rebalanced, and roadforce balanced.

[HyperMikeD]

I just went throught the same thing. Vibration would start at 65mph and if you didnt move through it quickly it would rattle your fillings loose !

I ordered a complete front end rebuild kit but I ran out of time over the weekend to do the install. I only got to replace the control arms, CABs, and sway bar end links but this solved my vibration problem.

Cheers !
MikeD.

[quail]

i have the same symptoms and have replaced everything to do with the steering as you guys a noted above.
my tie-rods are about 6 months old but i suspect bad road conditions have caused the inner tie rod ball joints that connected to the rack have let go.
from the research that i have done it doesn't take much to damage the inner tie rod ball joint and then cause this steering issue.
my car is booked in tomorrow to have the professionals over look everything so i'll give you an update.
i'll also add that i had new stabilizer links installed with the new tie rods and i had to replace the links last weekend, the joints came loose and sloppy.
(i guess issues like this will come up more often with lowered cars with stiff suspension...)


Understand your point regarding lowered vehicles, and mine was about 2 years ago, but last year I returned everything to stock. New struts springs stock wheels etc.

Thanks for the input and looking forward to your feedback.

I replaced my inner and outer tie rod assembly's with lemforders, and the shake was present with 0 miles on them.

Unless the shop hit a major pot hole in their parking lot when they took the car off the lift..

[baron10]

read the thread... I have had 5 sets of tires on 3 sets of rims, balanced, rebalanced, and roadforce balanced.

Only trying to help mate. I had the same problem as a couple of weights fell of my wheels. Balancing my wheels up again sorted it.

[quail]

I just went throught the same thing. Vibration would start at 65mph and if you didnt move through it quickly it would rattle your fillings loose !

I ordered a complete front end rebuild kit but I ran out of time over the weekend to do the install. I only got to replace the control arms, CABs, and sway bar end links but this solved my vibration problem.

Cheers !
MikeD.


Yeah I was hopeful control arms would do it. The bushings look brand new. I have pictures I can post tonight. No dryness no cracking, still perfectly centered. I had my indy shop check them about 3 times now, and they don't want to replace them because they seem perfect. I had upgraded to solid rubber M3 (centered) fcab's about 2 years ago and they are still rock solid. Car is not a daily driver, and I drive it nowhere but around town, to work occasionally.

The ball joints were fine but I had the outers replaced just as a precautionary measure. Made no difference.

Thanks for the input though.


Only trying to help mate. I had the same problem as a couple of weights fell of my wheels. Balancing my wheels up again sorted it.


understand and just re-read my post. Apologies, didn't mean to sound so smug, was not my intention. I have had the balance done at several different shops with several different machines, and immediately after each time the shake is there.

Road force machine said they balanced just fine, and I believe that even tells the operator where on the rim to put the tire for the best possible balance.

FCAB - Looks good IMO.

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/quail328/BMW/driveshaft/IMG00279-20120505-1435.jpg

Also Trans Mounts...

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/quail328/BMW/driveshaft/IMG00281-20120505-1436.jpg
http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/quail328/BMW/driveshaft/IMG00280-20120505-1435.jpg

And Guibo

http://i292.photobucket.com/albums/mm1/quail328/BMW/driveshaft/IMG00277-20120505-1434.jpg

[AntManC]

Spoke to my suspension specialist this afternoon about this issue.
They checked over everything and they said it all looks ok apart from this:
-The power steering fluid smelt burnt, they suspect the power steering pump is on the way out.
-They said the steering shake/light steering wobble could be because the pump is over driving and giving to much power assist, which explains the rack moving on it's own while driving at certain speeds to give a shake/wobble feeling.
First Solution - power steering flush, test for a week and see if that helps.

I pick up the car tomorrow morning so i'll give you another update if the flush has made any difference for a first drive.

[quail]

Spoke to my suspension specialist this afternoon about this issue.
They checked over everything and they said it all looks ok apart from this:
-The power steering fluid smelt burnt, they suspect the power steering pump is on the way out.
-They said the steering shake/light steering wobble could be because the pump is over driving and giving to much power assist, which explains the rack moving on it's own while driving at certain speeds to give a shake/wobble feeling.
First Solution - power steering flush, test for a week and see if that helps.

I pick up the car tomorrow morning so i'll give you another update if the flush has made any difference for a first drive.


This is interesting, but I have to admit I am skeptical. Though I know my car leaks power steering fluid, and most definitely has air in the system, I dont see how this could cause the system to be overdriven as it is belt driven. Maybe I am misunderstanding but I don't think this is fluid related.

If anything, the quality of the fluid would just alter the strength of the power assist, i.e. make the wheel harder to turn.

Atleast I would think...

My steering wobble is enough to make my watch chatter on my wrist.

[e36Brian]

Mines doing the same thing.... Schwabs went through mine and said my strut dampening in the front is shot and that's what is causing my issues. They also gave me alignment which helped a bit.

[quail]

Mines doing the same thing.... Schwabs went through mine and said my strut dampening in the front is shot and that's what is causing my issues. They also gave me alignment which helped a bit.

This is one of the first places I looked, and so I replaced all 4 struts/shocks late last year. I had these, ball joints, and tie rod assemblies (inner and outer) done followed by alignment. Specs read out fine except camber, which came out -1.9 on both sides. I think stock specs are -1.2 to -1.8

[e36Brian]

Interesting...I'm def subscribing to this thread and I look forward to hearing what it causing this issue.

[silverbullet21]

Bent rims. Had the exact same problem. They didn't detect it balancing them either at discount tire. Had to get a rim repaired due to a crack and ended up needing to fix small bends on all the others. No more vibrations.

[quail]

Road Force machine would pick this up, so would high speed balance.

Also, I borrowed rims from other cars, cars which had no shakes on the highway, and they shook on mine.

I've had them balanced at local independent shop, at a tire shop, and at a Firestone on a roadforce machine, then on the car at a front end specialist.



Underneath the car last weekend I noticed one of the bolts holding the rack in was backed out, and thought Eureka, there it is!, but when I tightened it back up it didn't help. Must have come loose from the vibration.

I am almost wondering if the u-joint or something could be transferring vibrations through the motor mounts if they were no good... sounds like a stretch, but maybe forces of driving are moving the motor mounts? They look fine on the car, but maybe stress from the highway is enough to shift them around or something? I would think I'd feel this in the seat more than the steering though...


First I am going to get a shop to take a much closer look at the rack. There is no play in it when the car is still. When the car is off and the steering is locked, just pulling the wheel against the lock turns the front wheels. The front wheels turn instantaneaously with the steering wheel.

Hopefully I can get there this weekend

[405style]

I have the same issue, also leads to a odd noise, sort of like a wheel bearing but not really. Inspected inner tierod balljoints today, they seem very weak and loose, which would make perfect sense as to why i get the wobble and oscillation noise

[quail]

I have the same issue, also leads to a odd noise, sort of like a wheel bearing but not really. Inspected inner tierod balljoints today, they seem very weak and loose, which would make perfect sense as to why i get the wobble and oscillation noise

Yeah. I just replaced mine with Lemforders last fall and didnt drive it in the winter much. I know it only takes one pothole to trash a tie rod, but I changed them because I had a shake, and after I replaced them, I still had the shake.

I then thought if the rack had play, having new tie rods would be pointless, because the new tie rods would be anchored to a part with play. However I have not been able to diagnose any play in the rack, hence me being baffled....

I have ruled out wheels/tires, no symptoms of bearings, new struts, new tie rods (inner and outer), new ball joints, new brake discs/rotors with good wear patterns, pictures above of clean FCAB's... only pieces left of front end are upper strut mounts, the rack, and the steering column. I even replaced the guibo in the steering column...

I have addressed all the usual culprits...

[405style]

Yeah. I just replaced mine with Lemforders last fall and didnt drive it in the winter much. I know it only takes one pothole to trash a tie rod, but I changed them because I had a shake, and after I replaced them, I still had the shake.

I then thought if the rack had play, having new tie rods would be pointless, because the new tie rods would be anchored to a part with play. However I have not been able to diagnose any play in the rack, hence me being baffled....

I have ruled out wheels/tires, no symptoms of bearings, new struts, new tie rods (inner and outer), new ball joints, new brake discs/rotors with good wear patterns, pictures above of clean FCAB's... only pieces left of front end are upper strut mounts, the rack, and the steering column. I even replaced the guibo in the steering column...

I have addressed all the usual culprits...

I have brand new FCABS, brand new control arms, brand new balljoints, brand new sway bar bushings, brand new end links , brand new bearings, outer tie rods and no play in the rack. The only think left are the inner tie rods. If that doesn t solve it , im lighting the 318 on fire, and shoving the 325 off a cliff.

[AntManC]

Picked up the car this morning and the flush has not done anything, it's now a test to see how quickly the pump fries the fluid to a grey colour.
The next step is to replace the pump and oil carrier.
The specialist said that the current pump is causing the wobble/light steering.
He said because the pump is thinning out the fluid to quickly its not applying any pressure to the steering which is causing these sysmtoms while driving.
After replacing everything and rebuilding everything to do with the suspension and steering, the last thing to replace is the pump with my car.

I'll give an update in about a week or so once the new pump and oil carrier are in.

Have you guys replaced your PS pump?

[quail]

have not replaced my PS Pump, Steering Rack, or Bearings in steering column..

I still think what your mechanic is claiming about the pump, would then be rpm sensitive, because the pump is belt driven.

I can tell you my car has no symptoms until I get over 60mph, and then at that point engine speed doesnt make any difference.

I am not ruling it out, and am curious to hear your outcome, just doesn't seem logical.

Ya know, It just hit me...

I lose my alignment when the shaking happens.

It always pulls left when it is shaking.

I have a sticking brake caliper...

There is no other explanation...

I haven't been able to diagnose it, the rotors and pads are roughly 6 months old, and show no signs of uneven wear, but maybe it is too early.

I have checked and have not noticed one side being hotter than the other, but this HAS to be it. maybe new lines and a flush are in order...

People have suggested this many times over, and I didn't want to agree. I am an idiot. it was right in front of my face...

Why else would the car pull left..

[AntManC]

That could be your problem, i suggest getting you rack rebuilt, as in a specialist replacing all internals and just keeping the original housing, that's what i did, cost me $1400 but it solved so many problems and my steering has been 98% perfect up until a week ago.
Your brake caliper issue is also something to look at.
my car is booked in on wednesday to have the pump and oil carrier installed, i'll give an update then.

[Nomade30]

Like stated in the other thread I believe it's your steering rack. It may also be something within your rear end causing the problems. I would check the rack first though.

[quail]

Thanks Guys. I will keep troubleshooting the rack, take it to the shop tomorrow if they can squeeze me in, and see what they have to say. Fortunately I can get a reman rack for pretty cheap. Might be worth it anyway.

I know the rear is leaking, and has been for some time, out the half shaft seals. That is next on my list after. It is a very slow leak, has been building over time, and I keep a watchful eye on fluid levels. I don't really want to get into rear end fixes if I can't first get the shake corrected.

[Nomade30]

I wasn't saying an axle or drivetrain, but rear end suspension part that is worn cause shaking as well.

[quail]

I wasn't saying an axle or drivetrain, but rear end suspension part that is worn cause shaking as well.

I will take a look. The shocks were replaced recently and I have e46 Convertible RSMs. I did the RTABS late last year. Those bearings were replaced about a year ago. I do need to do a brake job in the rear, will give that a look. There is a lot of meat on the pads, but they are pretty old so I will be doing them anyway. Will check Diff mounts and subframe bushings tomorrow.

[AntManC]

No matter how much money we spend gentlemen we are never going to get our e36's to feel like a brand new car, i think we have to settle for 90% new =)

[quail]

No matter how much money we spend gentlemen we are never going to get our e36's to feel like a brand new car, i think we have to settle for 90% new =)

Like New maybe not, but we should be able to stop a violent steering wobble.

I had the car at the shop this weekend, and again everything looks tight.

They had the car up on the lift for over an hour and went over everything.

All of the front end bushings are rock solid, the CSB and U-Joint are rock solid, the diff and subframe bushings are in great shape...

They did find a weak passenger side motor mount though. I will replace both and see if these are causing some of my issues. Maybe highway stress is loading weight on the bad mount and putting stress on the rack. If these do not help, I will proceed to the rack, and if that doesn't work I will give up and move on..

[E36BimmerFan]

http://realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BF33&mospid=47484&btnr=32_0635&hg=32&fg=30

I had the opportunity to tell a BMW tech all of my struggles with this intermittent steering shake I have been having on the highway. Just to rephrase, as I am sure all of you have heard over and over, I have replaced every piece of the front end from outside in, except the actual steering rack. I still have a terrible steering wobble at speed that comes and goes.

The tech responded with, "Well it comes down to 2 things. It could be the rack or a cheaper try would be the steering shaft from the column to the rack. If the bearing in that shaft is bad it could be binding up in certain situations which would explain the intermittent part."

Being as I recently found the shaking loosened up one of the actual bolts affixing the rack to the chassis, i find it hard to believe it could be this bearing, but it is definitely worth a look.

I know my power steering fluid is leaking, but I dont believe the rack itself is. The tie rods were done last fall and the boots were replaced. These are still dry and squeezing didnt show any signs of being filled with fluid. I know the PS lines are leaking from the reservoir and the metal coil attached to the rack. If I jack up the front end, turn the car on, and rotate the steering wheel, I can hear is pushing fluid around like a slurping sound when I get close to each lock. Sounds like there may be some air in the system, which would make sense since the lines are leaking.

However, I keep topping it off to keep it full, and the slightest bit of movement of the steering wheel when parked moves the wheels. There is no dead spot on center.

When the car is on the highway, and it starts shaking, the steering on center feel diminishes and there is a bit of play, plus the car pulls to the left.

Do you think the stress of highway speeds could be acting on the bearing the tech is talking about causing my problems?

I believe he is referring to 07 STEERING SPINDLE BEARING STEEL 132311158686

Has anyone had a similar experience?

I know with mine the front rims are bent from wonderful northern virginia pot holes and my wheel shakes pretty bad, gets worse when tires are down 5 to 8 pounds of air. Ur rims straight and true? Worth a guess idk

[quail]

I know with mine the front rims are bent from wonderful northern virginia pot holes and my wheel shakes pretty bad, gets worse when tires are down 5 to 8 pounds of air. Ur rims straight and true? Worth a guess idk


Yes. Wheels have been ruled out.

[roseh]

I have a complete power steering setup for the E36. Pump, resevior, all lines(hard plumbed and soft) including the rack. All this stuff is pretty new except the rack. Parts came from a 95 325i. Just throwing it out there for you.

I just got done eliminating the shakes that I was encountering. Everything in the front end of my car is less than a year old. Strut hats down to endlinks. Complete rebuild. The new parts will hopefully out live the car and thats how I justified spending the coin.

Now I have never driven a brand new E36, (I'm old but not that old) I will tell you this, mine drives pretty damn nice after rebuilding the front end. I have a 98 328i w/ 130k on the ticker and it drives better than any car I have ever owned. In my opinion it is 100%

[quail]

I have a complete power steering setup for the E36. Pump, resevior, all lines(hard plumbed and soft) including the rack. All this stuff is pretty new except the rack. Parts came from a 95 325i. Just throwing it out there for you.

I just got done eliminating the shakes that I was encountering. Everything in the front end of my car is less than a year old. Strut hats down to endlinks. Complete rebuild. The new parts will hopefully out live the car and thats how I justified spending the coin.

Now I have never driven a brand new E36, (I'm old but not that old) I will tell you this, mine drives pretty damn nice after rebuilding the front end. I have a 98 328i w/ 130k on the ticker and it drives better than any car I have ever owned. In my opinion it is 100%


Yeah, mine is pretty damn close to this minus the wobble. I am hoping the motor mounts will be the fix, otherwise I have replaced every piece of the front end minus the rack. Under 45mph the car rides beautifully and reminds me why I keep chasing this problem. Even with 180k miles on it.

[roseh]

Keep after it you'll get it.

[quail]

Keep after it you'll get it.

God I hope so. With all I spent last year, I thought I'd be past this by now.

[540er]

checked your steering guibo?

[quail]

checked your steering guibo?
yessir.

Replaced last fall.

I've replaced just about every piece of rubber except motor mounts and upper strut mounts.

[AntManC]

If your upper strut mounts are worn then they could be causing your struts to shack/wobble the faster you go which could lead to your problem...

I pick up my car tomorrow night so i'll have an updated about the new P.S pump.

[quail]

If your upper strut mounts are worn then they could be causing your struts to shack/wobble the faster you go which could lead to your problem...

I pick up my car tomorrow night so i'll have an updated about the new P.S pump.


Theres a thought..

maybe that is it..

Wouldnt have thought about them wobbling..

Binding crossed my mind but not wobbling..

[AntManC]

Theres a thought..

maybe that is it..

Wouldnt have thought about them wobbling..

Binding crossed my mind but not wobbling..

I've been told by other e36 drivers that worn strut mounts can cause steering shake, low speed you might not notice it but when faster i guess you would. anything thats connected in some way to the tie rod if worn might cause the steering shake.
have you replaced your front wheel bearing/hub assembly?
IMO i dont think your engines mounts would cause such a shake...

Drove my car home and the new power steering pump has fixed my issue, steering is now firm again.

[quail]

I've been told by other e36 drivers that worn strut mounts can cause steering shake, low speed you might not notice it but when faster i guess you would. anything thats connected in some way to the tie rod if worn might cause the steering shake.
have you replaced your front wheel bearing/hub assembly?
IMO i dont think your engines mounts would cause such a shake...

Drove my car home and the new power steering pump has fixed my issue, steering is now firm again.

Glad to hear you fixed your problem.

Yes my upper strut mounts should be original, and though they look fine, they are worth replacing. Just dreading taking the car apart again, for the 3rd time, haha. Tie Rod inners and outers are brand new, and the rack is tight. Maybe the strut mounts are it. There is some slight looseness over rough pavement at slow speed, and struts/control arms/tie rods are new. Makes some sense. I guess I will start with motor mounts, need them anyway, and strut mounts, and see how it goes.

[roseh]

The new "strut hats" are a redesigned part. They make the front of the car sit higher than the OE parts do. This is confirmed. If you put the new hats and the old hats on the bench you can see the difference.

There is a thread out there on this I will try to find it for you. I ordered 3 different styles from 3 different suppliers. I bought Meyle, Boge, and Lemforder. They all made the car sit higher in the front. Just a heads up. I measured it between .25 to .50 inches higher. Yes I let the springs settle.

When I installed the new hats the fender to wheel spacing looked like a monster truck. FAIL. Compensated by using H&R OE Sport Springs. It could be a little lower in the front but for the most part I am happy with the results.

If you can find NOS use them. All dealerships out here carry the new style hats.

Quail,

here is your link

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1675158&highlight=strut+hats

[quail]

The new "strut hats" are a redesigned part. They make the front of the car sit higher than the OE parts do. This is confirmed. If you put the new hats and the old hats on the bench you can see the difference.

There is a thread out there on this I will try to find it for you. I ordered 3 different styles from 3 different suppliers. I bought Meyle, Boge, and Lemforder. They all made the car sit higher in the front. Just a heads up. I measured it between .25 to .50 inches higher. Yes I let the springs settle.

When I installed the new hats the fender to wheel spacing looked like a monster truck. FAIL. Compensated by using H&R OE Sport Springs. It could be a little lower in the front but for the most part I am happy with the results.

If you can find NOS use them. All dealerships out here carry the new style hats.

Quail,

here is your link

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1675158&highlight=strut+hats


Well, thanks for the info, it is appreciated.

I think I have no choice but to replace mine though. They are not cracked or worn looking, but I can't rule them out with my wobble unless I replace them. Fortunately I do have a little extra camber in the front, maybe some compression on the stock mount from 180k miles of use. Perhaps this wasn't considered in the 1/2 inch height difference? (I know it wouldn't compress 1/2 inch from use, but maybe the redesign was responsible for 3/8 inch compared to a new old stock mount).

Regardless, I have the factory sport springs as well, and so I am hoping the added height wont mess things up further. I am not worried about the look, but if this adds positive camber, I might be doing this a 4th time to install other sport springs. If a 1/2 inch lowering was achieved, I dont think the strut dampening would be affected much, as the car would probably be riding within stock alignment specs. (1/2" lift from new mounts, 1/2" drop from conservative sport springs should = stock alignment specs (nearly))

Just hoping I dont wind up making the car worse. Hopefully the mounts fix my problem, car aligns fine, and I dont have to mess with springs because I like stock ride as it is now.

[roseh]

After installing the redesigned mounts with the H&R OE Springs the car alignment was within the factory specs. Of course the struts went in and out 3 times before I got it correct!!! Upside is I can remove the entire suspension from the car in about 1 hour. Nascar style.

I didn't know what springs you were running. Your car stock was lower than mine to start with. I hope this fixes the issue for you, I mean damn, you have replaced every other component that I can think of!

[quail]

After installing the redesigned mounts with the H&R OE Springs the car alignment was within the factory specs. Of course the struts went in and out 3 times before I got it correct!!! Upside is I can remove the entire suspension from the car in about 1 hour. Nascar style.

I didn't know what springs you were running. Your car stock was lower than mine to start with. I hope this fixes the issue for you, I mean damn, you have replaced every other component that I can think of!

Haha. Thanks. Yeah I have replaced just about everything. If the strut mounts were binding at highway speeds it would definitely explain the intermittent shaking. as they work themselves free less tension on the piston. I am hoping this helps.

I think I am driving my mechanic crazy. He's spent a whole lot of time, free, trying to help me diagnose my problems. So far he has been understanding that some of this stuff is simple enough for me to do myself, more complicated things bring him business, but so far he has been very honest with me. Could just say yeah everything sucks replace it again, but atleast he gives me an honest opinion and tells me when something seems fine. I hear the Nascar style though. Took me three or 4 tries to do everything. First time I ran out of light and had to reinstall coilovers (had only one wheel up, sway bar didnt let the LCA fall, and I couldnt get the strut to line up with the knuckle) Next day I redid and omitted an important washer. Following day I took it apart and inserted a washer. Takes me about an hour and a half each side, only because I am fighting with spring compressors.

[roseh]

Yeah my mechanic probably cringes when he sees me coming too. That said, I rarely ever walk out of the place without spending a $100 bill and I pay him in cash, so.......

Thank god autozone rents spring compressors, ball joint seperators, and pickel forks for nothing!! What kind of control arms and tie rods did you buy? Meyle HD?

[quail]

Lemforder. I checked the control arms. They were a little older than I thought. I must have done them in 2009. However, they are still solid, and I replaced the ball joints last year. There is no play in the inners ball joints. Tie Rods were also lemforder, inner and outer assemblies.

Another curiosity, I did all of this after a clutch job. During the clutch job I did the driveshaft guibo. Could there be some play in anything between the guibo and the trans (guibo forward, not towards the rear end)?

[blackongrey]

We had a similar problem with our Ferd Expedition, one of the front hubs was bent. They had to use something like a micrometer to find it. But it was from it being in an accident too soo...

[quail]

We had a similar problem with our Ferd Expedition, one of the front hubs was bent. They had to use something like a micrometer to find it. But it was from it being in an accident too soo...

hmm, I have been in a couple of small fender bender type of bumps, nothing that reached the frame of the car, and nothing that impacted the sides at all, but a bent hub is a though. Would I just replace the bearings/assembly, or is there more to it than that?

[quail]

well.. motor mounts came. Car scheduled to go in on Monday.

The new mounts do look a tiny bit taller than what is on the car. 180k miles of compression, maybe this will smooth things out..

[AntManC]

Good luck!!

[quail]

New Motor Mounts. Car feels quite a bit tighter, and less drivetrain vibration. Didn't realize the little bit I was getting through the rest of the car. I would say this was a big improvement...

..but..

Steering shake no better or worse.

I guess I didnt really expect this to help the steering shake but..

Guess I am doing strut mounts this weekend. If that doesnt help, time to try the rack..


..it just never ends ..

[AntManC]

i think you should pay more attention to the rack!!
Also which front stabilizer links do you use?
the standard non M links which connect to the control arms or the M links which connect to the struts?
The reason i ask is because i used the M links with my coilovers and i wonted to see if there was a difference going back to the non M links and there was!
I found by using the M links i has less steering wheel shake and the feeling in the drive from the front was much tighter!
I'll be swapping them back soon, just something to think about.

[quail]

I have the stock 325is setup. The sway bar mounts to the control arms. Not the struts.

I am still suspecting the rack needs help, but I am going to replace the strut mounts first. Much cheaper as $52 for a Meyle set.

From there I will get to the rack if need be. Hopefully not. Will also consider doing the front wheel hubs and bearings as preventative while I am at it. Wear or not, they have 180k miles on them, unless they were replaced in the first 90k miles.

[K1118]

don't think you should mess with the wheel hubs and bearings unless you can hear them while driving or there is play in the wheels...just my 0.02

[quail]

Am I risking anything by doing them if not needed? I mean, I am pretty sure they have 180k miles on them...

I am not going to do them if there are no problems, i.e if replacing the strut mounts fixes my shake, I am going to drive it as it is and enjoy it for a bit.

However, if the strut mounts aren't what I am looking for, I will look at bearings/rack.

[Nomade30]

You're not risking anything. I just replaced my strut mounts and it cleared up a little bit of my 70mph shake, but I know my wheels are bent.

[Unseentruth]

I am having a similar problem too, when I hit about 60 or 65 and turn slightly to the left it wobbles. Only when I turn left tho. I was going to ask the mechanic about it soon but any ideas on what I could check before I take it to him? It's a 97 328is.

[silverbullet21]

I'm thinking a ball joint, LCAB, or wheel bearing? In that order

[attrack]

hmm, I have been in a couple of small fender bender type of bumps, nothing that reached the frame of the car, and nothing that impacted the sides at all, but a bent hub is a though. Would I just replace the bearings/assembly, or is there more to it than that?


I would doubt hubs because that should be felt regardless of the speed (from what I gather that is when it gets bad). If its happening at any speed then it is absolutely worth a good look. Also give the axel a look as well. I know even a slightly bent bicycle axel can wreak havoc with vibration and ride quality in general.

[quail]

New Strut Mounts arriving tomorrow. Hopefully one of these weekends I can do them. They were the cheapest place to go, after all I have been through thus far.

I am positive it is not control arm/fcab related. I even posted pictures of the bushings, and several mechanics have told me they look great. The ball joints were replaced as a precaution, and those are all fine. Leaning on the control arm with a pry bar does not show any play in any direction.

[gldfshkpr]

I had this issue and found I was simply low on power steering fluid. Really low. ;-)

The End.

[quail]

I had this issue and found I was simply low on power steering fluid. Really low. ;-)

The End.

Topped mine off last week. Wasn't too low. Bled some air out and took maybe an inch of fluid.

[quail]

I've been driving the car more and more since I had the motor mounts done.

Strange. The car now seems to have good days and bad days with the steering shake.

I have been having more and more good days, but every once in a while the shake comes back and is persistent for a day or two.

This morning it barely shook at all over 10 miles on the highway to work.

Very bizarre.

[AntManC]

My 328i does something similar to that as well!!
Instead of the shake it's a wobble.
Some days it will drive great with firm steering then days it will feel shit like its going to over-steer, weird as!!!
I cant get my head around it...

[M Quick]

Sound like typical LCAB fail like all other BMW's, they are sensitive to bad bushings and makes the symptoms described in this thread, i would change the whole A-arm with new bushings.

[quail]

Yeah it does sound like that. Except I have already replaced them. I even re-did the outer ball joints as a precaution and they did not help. The fcab's are solid m3 fcab's and show no signs of wear. I have pictures posted in one of my threads. Leaning on them with a pry bar doesn't show any signs of play

[M Quick]

What brand do you have on those bushings and ball joints?

[AntManC]

The FCAB's were already replaced when i bought the car with polyurethane ones.
not sure on the brand but they are bright red.

[quail]

Control arms are lemforders and bushings are m3 oem

[Moron95M3]

did you do the strut mounts too yet? Still in the same boat, wondering if you've found a solution.

[quail]

Haven't had a chance. Workin 7 days a week lately. Have a seasonal part time job which will run out in the next few weeks. Will probably only be July before I get to it.

[Moron95M3]

ok cool. I've got to address my bad diff/subframe, then I'll be focusing upfront again. Same thing though, 50% of the time it's good, then 50% it's bad. sometimes really bad. Don't get it.

[roseh]

Quail,

I see you have not posted in awhile did you get this fixed?

[Hybrid775]

Ba da bump.

[keeslinger31]

Iv'e got the same issue It's either my tie rods or my tires.
New bearings
New fcab
New control arm bushings
Old struts and mounts
Old inner outer tierods
Could be low on fluid but i doubt it.:rolleyes

[quail]

Not Fixed.

Motor mounts seem to have helped quite a bit, but still a wobble in the wheel.

Havent had time to do the strut mounts, gonna wait a few more paychecks and get the rack done I think.

[HyperMikeD]

I really can't believe that there's 4 pages on this issue...

I had the same symptoms and replaced the control arms, cabs, inner/ outer tie rod ends, sway bar bushings/ end links, installed 2 new front tires, and got an alignment. Now it drives like a new car !

[Moron95M3]

I really can't believe that there's 4 pages on this issue...

I had the same symptoms and replaced the control arms, cabs, inner/ outer tie rod ends, sway bar bushings/ end links, installed 2 new front tires, and got an alignment. Now it drives like a new car !

He's done all this...(and I have too!) and the symptoms are still there...

[quail]

He's done all this...(and I have too!) and the symptoms are still there...

done struts and brakes too...

[AntManC]

I really can't believe that there's 4 pages on this issue...

I had the same symptoms and replaced the control arms, cabs, inner/ outer tie rod ends, sway bar bushings/ end links, installed 2 new front tires, and got an alignment. Now it drives like a new car !

how many miles has your car done?

[quail]

180k. Most of the replaced parts were done less than 5k miles ago.

[phibett]

I had the same problem . all I did was change one of the arm control bushings. Have you guys checked this already?

[jeffkniseley]

Bent/warped rim? That was my issue sorry I really didn't feel like reading all 6 pages on a wobble

Sent from my iPhone using BF.c

[charliemike]

Bent/warped rim? That was my issue sorry I really didn't feel like reading all 6 pages on a wobble

Sent from my iPhone using BF.c

It was one of the first things he did.

[jeffkniseley]

Well there is bad:
Steering rack
Shocks
Springs tie rods balljoints
Control arm bushings plus the above
Loose bolts
Strut mount broke

Sent from my iPhone using BF.c

Warped rotors
Bad wheel bearings
How where the the rims checked?

Sent from my iPhone using BF.c

[Turfburn]

I'll jump into the fray as well after reading every post... I have a 1998 M3 sedan with 132K on it. I overhauled the entire suspension front to rear when I bought it in the fall. Same issue as you though... starting as low as 60 and at varying points up to about 75 (never really held speed above that for any length) I get intermittent steering wheel wobble. Typically about a half to 3/4 inch wobble if I let the steering do its thing. Comes and goes even when speed and road are flat. Seems to actually show up more on smooth roads than bad roads. I may have made SOME progress on it this week though. I use spacers up front to fit big tires with stock rims and they don't make proper contact on the hubs. I made alignment pins that fit all 5 bolt holes and slip the rims on over those, then torque down each bolt individually to ensure centering. That seems to have helped but I have not gotten enough miles on to be confident of it. So I am not sure to what degree I do or don't have the problem still, but definitely curious how you are doing with things as I'm in a very similar situation, tried multiple rims/tires, have all new struts, springs, bushings, (not control arms, but they check out fine), inner and outer tie rods, new engine mounts, etc.

I ruled out brakes (suspected those as well) by dragging the brakes at speed and found no change at all in the throb from the steering. Only other symptom I've got that I can't quite figure out is that if I have the car sitting still with the engine off (can do it with engine running too, but harder to hear) a sharp jerk will get a small pop out of the steering system. You can feel it through the floor, or if you hold a tie rod (either side) while a helper does the steering wheel jerks you'll feel it in the rods. But the rack and all the rods are super tight with no play and I've checked the alignment repeatedly to confirm that it is holding tight. So yeah, very weird issue!!!

[flyfishvt]

Turfburn you need hubcentric rings. They ate less than $15 and it will cure your issue. It will also make removal/remount of the rims easier. It will also make your car safer. The hubs are intended to bare the bulk of the weight. Not the lug bolts. Right now you have zero contact with the hub. Search eBay for 74mm-72mm rings. Plastic or metal doesmt matter.

[Turfburn]

Stock rims though, I haven't seen anything that can fit the stock wheels that I was aware of. So any old 74/72 ring will fit you are saying?

[405style]

Plastic rings suck :(

[Turfburn]

Yeah, I don't think the centric rings do any kind of load bearing. I'm quite sure the load bearing is actually achived on the friction between the hub and wheel surfaces from the clamping load the lugs provide. That's why when you forget to torque the lugs down fully (which I've managed to do before) you can hear the wheel hit the lugs as it goes around.

I'm still curious if there are centric rings that fit the stock rims though.

[flyfishvt]

The rims used on 5 series cars have a center bore of 74mm. 3 series rims have a 72mm bore. It is absolutely true that the bore/hub takes some of the weight. do research and you'll see. No matter how meticulous you are you cannot get a rim with a 74mm bore to fit perfectly onto a 72mm hub. It will move slightly over time or it wont even start off perfectly centered. As soon as it moves off center at all then you get wheel shimmy. It can be minor or very violent. The rings serve 2 purposes. They go on the hub and take up the slack space of that 2mm difference. This centers the rim on the hub. They also allow the rim to fit properly so the hub takes the weight it was designed to. I admit plastic rings seem pretty flimsy but they do work. The aluminum rings aren't much better as far as being stout. None of them are very expensive. I picked up a set of plastic ones for about $10. When I saw them I ordered a set of aluminum ones for $15. Unfortunatey I sold the rims before I ever got a chance to use any of the rings.

These rings should not be confused with Hubcentric Spacers or spacers of any kind. Hub centric spacers are used on rims that need to me moved out toward the side of the car. They also incorporate a hubcentric ring to adapt large bore rims to the smaller bore. These are very expensive. Normal spacers just move the rim outwards. These are also a bit pricey.

[Turfburn]

I'm sorry to stay off topic, and I don't want to get in to the math, but the hub does NOT bear the wheel forces. There are MANY incorrect items on the internet saying otherwise, but as a mechanical engineer, and having double checked a good bit with some automotive engineers I know, I can unequivocally state that the hub does not bear the load, and neither do the lugs except in incidental or extreme instances. The friction between the hub surface and wheel provided by the clamping forces of the lugs is what bears the load. If you still disagree we can go over it in more detail.

Here is one simple link though so you have a word other than mine:
http://www.crashforensics.com/wheelandhubfailures.cfm

[Moron95M3]

I'm sorry to stay off topic, and I don't want to get in to the math, but the hub does NOT bear the wheel forces. There are MANY incorrect items on the internet saying otherwise, but as a mechanical engineer, and having double checked a good bit with some automotive engineers I know, I can unequivocally state that the hub does not bear the load, and neither do the lugs except in incidental or extreme instances. The friction between the hub surface and wheel provided by the clamping forces of the lugs is what bears the load. If you still disagree we can go over it in more detail.

Here is one simple link though so you have a word other than mine:
http://www.crashforensics.com/wheelandhubfailures.cfm

+1


Just the hub centers the wheel better then just lug bolts.

Some trucks used just centering lug nuts, usually they work fine unless you use the wrong nuts.

[quail]

Sorry for disappearing for a while, got a new job, working a second, and been going to school. Haven't had any time to really dig in any deeper with mine.

Regarding Turfburn's comments, I fail to see where he mentions 5 series rims?

With my car, I have been avoiding highways, and it is much more fun to drive this car on back roads anyway, plus no depressing steering shimmy.

I will say, additional symptoms I notice, a bit of "kangaroo'ing" when on the brakes, that can not be felt through the pedal or steering (rear discs I guess).

I also notice over some bumps the stick tends to pop up and down a little delayed behind the bump (inertia). The trans mounts look fine, and the motor mounts helped make the car feel tighter, but maybe the trans mounts do need to be done, even though they look fine. I do know the shift bushings are very well worn, and I can move the stick about a quarter of an inch in every direction before there is any resistance (including up and down). I did hear a quick squeak from the front passenger side going over some very rough pavement at less than 5 mph, creeping in first gear over it (girlfriends house has gutters instead of curbs at the driveway). Maybe the strut mounts ARE to blame.

Now its just a matter of coming up with some dough to pay someone to do them, since I dont have the time or energy to do it myself right now.

[405style]

The rims used on 5 series cars have a center bore of 74mm. 3 series rims have a 72mm bore. It is absolutely true that the bore/hub takes some of the weight. do research and you'll see. No matter how meticulous you are you cannot get a rim with a 74mm bore to fit perfectly onto a 72mm hub. It will move slightly over time or it wont even start off perfectly centered. As soon as it moves off center at all then you get wheel shimmy. It can be minor or very violent. The rings serve 2 purposes. They go on the hub and take up the slack space of that 2mm difference. This centers the rim on the hub. They also allow the rim to fit properly so the hub takes the weight it was designed to. I admit plastic rings seem pretty flimsy but they do work. The aluminum rings aren't much better as far as being stout. None of them are very expensive. I picked up a set of plastic ones for about $10. When I saw them I ordered a set of aluminum ones for $15. Unfortunatey I sold the rims before I ever got a chance to use any of the rings.

These rings should not be confused with Hubcentric Spacers or spacers of any kind. Hub centric spacers are used on rims that need to me moved out toward the side of the car. They also incorporate a hubcentric ring to adapt large bore rims to the smaller bore. These are very expensive. Normal spacers just move the rim outwards. These are also a bit pricey.

+1.

When i swapped my wheels to hubcentric 72mm , shimmy vanished. Running my style 5s with e39 bore and hubcentrics, the shimney appears after a while and get progressively worse. when i remount the wheels, it vanishes again.

This is why I WANT Metal hubcentric rings!!!

[Turfburn]

I can update a little. I am rid of about 98% of the steering shake. Using the alignment pins to make sure the wheel was perfectly centered before torquing down was one thing I did. The other two things were I re-torqued the 3 nuts on the top of each strut tower up front, none of them were loose, but they took a little bit more torque, and the other thing was I was able to get a good half turn or better before hitting torque on the tie rod ends going in to the wheel hubs. I know they were torqued correctly when installed, but apparently the taper settled in a bit over time. I did all 3 at the same time, so I can't guarantee which it was, but I would bet on the alignment pins.

So with those fixes my wheel will shake less than 1/8" and it's pretty hard to detect unless paying attention.

Hope that helps a little!

[jeffkniseley]

I had a similar problem with mine once and had it aligned at 2 shops the first one was good so I thought the 2nd said the other shop toed the left wheel in 3/4" had hem align it and shake went away

Sent from my iPhone using BF.c

[bmermethis]

How do you go from "calipers sticking, it has to be it" to motor mounts? Did you ever replace the calipers or did I miss that? :help

[quail]

Interesting thought on tightening the ball joint on the tie rod end.

I have not done the brakes, gave it further thought, and spoke with my shop, where he was able to measure temperature from side to side, and each came back the same. Also, the car doesnt always pull in the same direction. This brings me back to the rack.

I have been complaining about some kangarooing on the brakes at slow speeds, some slight vagueness over rough pavement at slow speeds and a steering wobble at high speeds. All of these could be symptoms of tie rods. I replaced inner and outer with Lemforders recently, and while it helped a bunch, it was not all ending for the problems.

Being the rack is basically a set of gears meshed together, and with 180k miles of abuse, there are likely soft spots in the rack, where the teeth of the gears are worn, and this would explain some of the intermittence. It would also cause symptoms similar to bad tie rod ends, as there would be lateral movement from driving stresses, similar to a bad inner tie rod end joint. I think there is no way around this but to change the rack and see what happens.

[Turfburn]

Keep in mind that the center of the rack wears disproportionately to anywhere else. So you aren't going to have issues off center. It is also easy to test if the rack is tight or not. With the car off you can simply rock the steering wheel very small amounts and if you put your hand on a tire while reaching in, you'll be able to feel if the tire moves or not. 3/4" on the wheel is about 1/16" on the tires. A helper is good for this too. but if you are getting movement from the tires, the rack isn't worn, or enough to matter. I would also check that the steering shaft clamps are tight, just in case (unlikely issue though).

[ayougo]

I have this EXACT same issue. Very very subtle wheel shake/vibration beyond 60 but its intermittent. Car is tight, no play anywhere.

Now, I did replace the ps hose that goes from the res to the cooler coil. I removed the old hose and replaced it with bulk hose. The reducer that was in the old hose was not put inside the bulk hose. could that cause an issue?

My wheel moves just a tiny bit but its noticeable. I can drive through it sometimes and sometimes it just never does it. Steering feels tight and firm too. :eyecrazy I cant tell you how many times ive had my tires roadforce balanced. I can however see what looks like inconsistency when i spin my fronts and look at them from the side. could this be my eyes messing with me?

[Turbohugh]

If you know you have bad leaking steering pumps and steering pump lines, and you have issues in the steering, wouldnt it make sense to fix the known issues first, then move on to the speculated issues ?

Just asking dont flame please.. (trying to learn here)

[AntManC]

After all these people having similar experiences i reckon it comes down to the series 3 rack being cursed.
Seems that the only way to fix this issue is to up grade to the Z3 rack or Z4 rack.
I've tried to chase this problem as well but it seems not matter how many things you replace the problem is still there.
IMO - swapping the rack to a Z3 or Z4 is the only solution, and i say this because reading write ups from people that have done it seem to be very pleased!!

[SketchyDude]

Are you still around quail? Any progress? I just put on some good(?) struts and have this wobble myself. Everything seems tight under there too.

[Nanniepoo]

Are you still around quail? Any progress? I just put on some good(?) struts and have this wobble myself. Everything seems tight under there too.

You posted a picture in another thread of your destroyed CABs. My guess is that.

[SketchyDude]

They didnt "look" destroyed. Cracked a little, but, no where near destroyed, unless I am missing something.

[eric325]

They were destroyed.

[por911]

It's too bad you didn't replace the inner tie rod end as well. Usually if it is time to do the outer, the inner's are pretty cooked as well. Having said that, you might consider switching over the p/s fluid to M1 syn ATF, which will smooth things out. I'm going to assume here that your wheels are true and the tires are properly balanced. It is also worth checking the steering/ignition housing. They have upgraded the design of this part. Replacing this and the steering guibo greatly improved the cars stability on the highway. Before the housing was replaced, you could move our steering wheel up and down, ie way too much play.
regards

[SketchyDude]

They were destroyed.

STEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEELLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA !!! :bawl





It's too bad you didn't replace the inner tie rod end as well. Usually if it is time to do the outer, the inner's are pretty cooked as well. Having said that, you might consider switching over the p/s fluid to M1 syn ATF, which will smooth things out. I'm going to assume here that your wheels are true and the tires are properly balanced. It is also worth checking the steering/ignition housing. They have upgraded the design of this part. Replacing this and the steering guibo greatly improved the cars stability on the highway. Before the housing was replaced, you could move our steering wheel up and down, ie way too much play.
regards

"I" am thinking of going with redline, if the have it or amsoil. I have new tires and new rims so we will see.

Hopefully OP is still around somewhere and will chime in on his adventure.

[charger758]

Did you ever replace the strut mount? Chasing a similar issue on an M Roadster, steering wheel wobbles and the hardtop shakes violently. Changed wheels/tires, control arm bushings, tie rods and ball joints are tight, quibo is newish and looks good, shock (koni's) are fine. Took a look at one of the front strut mounts yesterday, rubber looks good, the bearings seem to have a lot of play. Going to replace those hopefully today with camber plates (spherical bearing).

[por911]

I've had a bit of experience with this on our car (1995 318ia). Recently rebuilt the front chasing down tired/worn parts causing vibrations/shimmy, etc... Here is what I did:
1) road force balanced new set of Kuhmo on stock alloys
2) lower control arms/bushings
3) tie rod assemblies
4) ignition steering/housing and guibo
5) flushed p/s fluid mutiple times with M1 syn ATF
6) motor, trans, exhaust mounts
7) center support bearing, guibo disc, guide sleeve bushing
The list goes on, but you get the idea. The steering/ignition housing and guibo really put the nail in the coffin on steering wheel vibrations. The car would wander on the highway as well which is completely gone. The tracks as straight as an arrow now. Hope this helps.
regards