Just a warning to fellow e36 owners.

[catalyst.]

When i restored my car a few years ago i decided to run royal purple syncromesh tranny fluid in the tranny. I put approx 40k miles on the car and then the transmission proceeded to destroy itself.

When i say destroy i mean that it would hum on the highway and i lost all ability to downshift the car, i can revmatch perfectly any downshift and despite this the synchros no longer work and every gear grinds when i attempt to downshift.

Anyways i drained the royal purple which was as thin as piss after 40k miles... and replaced it with mobil 1 ATF fluid just to see what would happen i figured what the hell its already destroyed.

No more humming on the highway whatsoever, but the damage to the syncros was already done so i can no longer downshift.

SO in short, i recommed never using any royal purple products - ever. I have done a little research into their engine oils as well which all fail prematurely and are blown out of the water by mobil 1 and castrol edge in wear protection, additive package, and engine metal content after analysis.

[CirrusSR22]

I've used Royal Purple Synchromax in my Getrag, and strictly from a 'feel' standpoint its the worst I've used. Plain Dex III, Mobil 1 Syn ATF, and RedLine MTL all were much better.

[blueberry]

Uh oh, I think I just put that in when I did my clutch 2k miles ago

[heifetz17]

+1 I never quite understood why people wouldn't use fluids approved by BMW. BMW approves Castrol and Mobil 1. I don't remember seeing Royal Purple on their list of approved lubricants.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing it.

[Moron95M3]

interesting info - I've never heard of issues with RP and run 10-40 RP all day long in the M3. And I swear the motor is happier than with M1.

When I do trans flush though I'll remember this!

[ThreeSixM]

i used their oil in my m3. 5w40 and it was already low by a month after the oil change. filled it up again with castrol and it has lasted me ever since. never again will i use royal purple.

[shlalaw]

See this for approved auto trans fluids:

http://admin.webmakerx.net/images/Sites/Site18295/Document/autotrans.pdf

See this for approved motor oils:

http://www.bmwusa.com/Standard/Content/Owner/SyntheticEngineOils.aspx

Theoretically, manual transmission is lifetime. Rightttt. I use Redline D4 ATF in mine.

[joey79]

I've been on royal purple synchromesh for about 75,000km (45,000? miles). No sounds or shifting problems at all, but I think I'm going to switch to Redline soon anyway. I've also read a lot of stuff about diffs dying while running royal purple gear oil.

[The Villain]

I always prefer Redline in the tranny, but I've been very pleased with Royal Purple as an engine lubricant on a number of cars in the past. These days I'll run whichever synthetic is on sale.

@ThreeSixM -- makes absolutely no sense that you'd 'lose' more oil with one brand over another, unless the weight was substantially lower and therefore leaked out easier. Also, as a rule of thumb I never use an oil with more than 30 weight of viscosity modifiers in it...5w40 is pushing it.

[michal182]

i've been running hyundai atf fluid in my tranny:P no problems so far

[blackongrey]

+1 I never quite understood why people wouldn't use fluids approved by BMW. BMW approves Castrol and Mobil 1. I don't remember seeing Royal Purple on their list of approved lubricants.

I could be wrong, but I don't remember seeing it.

I think you mean BMW wasn't paid by any other companys to be listed as approved.

[The Villain]

I think you mean BMW wasn't paid by any other companys to be listed as approved.

Noooo.....you mean to say BMW isn't a lubricant expert? :evil2

[slocar]

interesting info - I've never heard of issues with RP and run 10-40 RP all day long in the M3. And I swear the motor is happier than with M1.

When I do trans flush though I'll remember this!
Yeah because we all know motors have emotions lol.

It's either lubricated or isn't ... it could care less if you put cooking oil in there as long as it had the right viscosity and lubricating properties to allow everything to work without self destructing.

[catalyst.]

Just to bring this back, im still using that screwed up tranny and decided to try honda MTF in it just because i had it laying around. In my searching i have come to realize that these trannys are much happier with something closer to 75w-90 gear oil but it cannot be typical GL5 gear oil because it has friction modifiers in it.

So stuff like GM synthetic MTF, redline MTF, amsoil MTF etc which is essentially a GL4 gear oil is what you need

Anything that says syncromesh on it IS NOT the correct fluid, much much to thin.

[Eric93se]

Did you read the compatibility chart from royal purple before putting that in?

http://royalpurpleconsumer.com/wp-content/uploads/Transmission_Lubricant_Cross_Reference_Chart.pdf

Also remember syncros do go bad and for other reasons. Even possible the fresh RP released old baked on stuff.

[mfyoung1086]

Wow reading through the RP data sheets they are very very skimpy, a simple PASS on the corrosion properties of the oil is not good enough to me

typically make sure you run a gl4 in our man trans, if you're going to run a gl-5 make sure you get the chemical corrosion tests out of them. Most high end gl-5's don't actually strip bronze anymore than gl-4's do nowadays but you gotta do your research first as some don't use quality additives

RP is dual rated at gl-4/gl-5 so it technically should be OK for use in a BMW getrag

I personally use swepco 201 which is a gl-5 oil but unlike RP and redline they actually publish their chemical corrosion properties and they're damn good, but then again I use a gear oil as imo atf is not thick enough for track use, this makes shifter in the cold a bit slower as you need to allow a lil extra time for the synchros to spin up using gear oil (it case you wanted to know swepco has a copper strip rating of 1A the best you can get and a chemical corrision BT-10 of .9 mg for aluminum/ bronze which is pass in any book)

btw if I may how many miles do you have on your getrag currently? Also what is RP's recommend lifespan on their product? 40K seems like a lot of miles on the oil imo but idk what RP recommends for change intervals time or mileage wise

[sjpgoalie]

Syncromax is NOT meant for transmissions that take auto trans fluid. Period. OP was a ding dong.

[Pik Masta]

On my 6 spd getrag I use Redline D4 ATF as recommended by Redline sales rep and bimmerworld techs. :D

[flyfishvt]

Catalyst

What tranny is this? ZF or Getrag

How many miles on it when you added RP how many now?

[sjpgoalie]

SO in short, i recommed never using any royal purple products - ever. I have done a little research into their engine oils as well which all fail prematurely and are blown out of the water by mobil 1 and castrol edge in wear protection, additive package, and engine metal content after analysis.

Please post the info you've found that shows mobil1 motor oil is superior to royal purple.

There is a compiled studied that I will find and it begs to differ. Mobil was one of the worst oils they tested. The test consisted of a spinning bearing in direct contact with a metal plate. The point was to measure how much metal was eroded between the two over a lengthy period of time. Mobil one was at the bottom of the barrel and I have never used it since I read the study. Royal purple, valvoline, shell, total, elf, castrol - all rated very close to each other and were at the top of the list. I will find it. It is a PDF, taken from a magazine publication.

Based on the data and tests I've come across, my picks go:

1) Shell Rotella T6
2) Royal Purple 5w40

I have been looking into Total, but I have no reason to switch from T6. I've used redline, Mobil, royal, valvoline, elf...maybe a few others...T6 has always seemed to last longer before it looked like it needed to be drained.

Royal purple is good to run here and there in engines that have higher mileage. It has a lot of zinc in it and can fill micro-abrasions in the cylinder walls.

When in get home, I'll look for the data.

Edit: Found it on my phone. Not the newest data, but no test like this has been done since and the top brands have change little to nothing between now and the time the test took place. Definitely worth a read for everyone.

http://www.animegame.com/cars/Oil%20Tests.pdf

That's a direct download. It should not take you ton the host site. Someone on NSXprime uploaded it for everyone.

[Nicky3]

I use Shell Rotella T6 exclusively in my e36 and so did the PO, who is my good friend. I currently have 160 k miles and a recent compression test yielded excellent results. Plus, it is cost effective and always on sale at Walmart.

[Pik Masta]

485517

[sjpgoalie]

Lol OP is the one who brought it up, mang.

[catalyst.]

Syncromax is NOT meant for transmissions that take auto trans fluid. Period. OP was a ding dong.

your a ding dong lol

- - - Updated - - -

No one ever said to put ATF in these trannys, i just did because it was already screwed up and i had it laying around. It stopped the tranny from moaning like a dying whore when the RP was in it. As for miles? i dunno a little over 200k.. I think i put in the RP at 170k miles.

Point is the sound WENT AWAY completely when i changed the fluid. It was litterally so bad before i changed it that i was afraid to drive the car because i thought the tranny was going to grenade on the highway

A friend of mine has an S2000 and the same thing happened to him after he switched to royal purple syncromesh.

[NJohc]

Personally, if my engine is going to make a racket with BMW's 5-30 and RP's oils as well as burn oil, I don't care what tests say. Im sticking with my M1 0w-40. Its the only oil I've used where my engine doesn't tick and none shows up in my catch can. I have Redline in my trans and diff. It really doesn't like being cold, but once you get some decent heat into it, I absolutely love it.

[UnderCoverGuy11]

90k On original Trans fluid, I did change the diff though, will be throwing in some D4 ATF this summer for the trans

[VinnyI]

i've been running hyundai atf fluid in my tranny:P no problems so far

http://static.tumblr.com/jtljh8i/9X3lxjs13/tumblr_lvi9gehlvz1qfcbp3o1_500.jpg

[flyfishvt]

Catalyst

What tranny is this? ZF or Getrag

How many miles on it when you added RP how many now?

Catalyst I see you have a 94 325. That means you have the Getrag 250. This tranny is well known to develope syncro issues just like its well known to develope the now famous Getrag Pop. My 95 325 did both of these and many others have done the same thing. BMW replaced a bunch of these trannies under the original warranty because of these exact issues.

You may be correct about Royal Purple Products but in this case I sincerely doubt that RP caused your tranny failure. This is exactly why so many people do the ZF tranny swap like I did.

Just my 2 cents

[sjpgoalie]

Personally, if my engine is going to make a racket with BMW's 5-30 and RP's oils as well as burn oil, I don't care what tests say. Im sticking with my M1 0w-40. Its the only oil I've used where my engine doesn't tick and none shows up in my catch can. I have Redline in my trans and diff. It really doesn't like being cold, but once you get some decent heat into it, I absolutely love it.

Not trying to convert you. Just letting you know. Did not know ears could see what was happening inside of a motor. Ticking lifters are normal in these. So do the injectors. It is probably more due to the oil weight. You're comparing 0w40 to 5w30s. Obviously, it will hang on to it better.

Thick oil and less noise does not mean less wear. Food for thought. I have no doubt that RP 5w40 puts Mobil 0w40 to shame. Mobil oil has had a terrible reputation for a long time amongst people who own performance cars. Just because your valves don't tick or tick as much, doesn't mean it is doing a better job in it's entirety. There is more to a motor than 24 lifters and a little air in them is absolutely fine (and normal). Also, thicker does not mean less wear, better lubrication, less apt to break down, will take longer to break down/burn, etc.

Run what you wish, but imagining how the motor is wearing across different oils, based on your hearing (which is often subjective and we don't even realize it) is no way to analyze things. Good luck. The only thing I use Mobil for is topping off.

[hide1]

FWIW I ran Royal Purple 10w40 in my turbo car when I had it and loved it. No problems whatsoever so Im surprised to hear such bad things about its gear fluids. Now I just use Mobil and Castrol 5w-50 these days.

[mfyoung1086]

I had a feeling the OP's trans had about that many miles... I think you need to realize that your trans had 200,000 miles on it and the fact that you got that many out of the synchro's isn't a negative my friend

I don't particular believe RP is worth the money that it costs, i think they sell a lot of oil based on their more HP claims to ricer kids and thats what I don't appreciate about them, but thats just me haha. I also don't like running dual wieght oils as far about as 0w-40 the additives they have to put into a 0w-40 to get that kinda cold weather performace really breaks down the oil quickly, you should really change you oil by temp, I run straight Brad Penn 50 weight in the race car, but I don't have cats (would not recommend using a high ZDDP oil with cats) and I run 20w-50 in the road car for summer and 10w-30 in winter I live in mild winters though

also there's really nothing in RP oil that should have eaten your synchros, I have a feeling they were on their way out anyways and 40k miles well thats enough for them to go from going to gone

[D. Hitchcock]

Someone posted in this thread that "nobody ever said to use ATF" in these manual transmissions.

Nobody but BMW.

There should be a paper label on the tranny that tells you whether to use manual transmission fluid or ATF.

[catalyst.]

Its no coincidence. about 30k after install the trans proceeds to destroy itself, changed the fluid all bad noises went away but syncros were already toast.

1+1=2

[eric325]

I'm pretty sure you were supposed to use ATF.

I think that's what happened.

[mfyoung1086]

so at 200k the trans destroyed itself... still sounds like it was on its way out a trans destorying its synchros at 200k miles it not something unheard of and tbh with a high mileage trans I would have been chaning fluids once a year regardless of miles or if I drove a lot at 25k miles

if you really think RP destroyed your trans why didn't you contact them about their warranty?

[catalyst.]

Go ahead and use it then, i dont care lol. I never will again and my buddy with the s2000 who had the same thing happen to him never will either. Do NOT use ATF in these trannys they are not designed for it. If you dont believe me call turner motorsport and ask them what they use - redline MTF or gl4 gear oil.

[eric325]

Mine uses atf.

[sjpgoalie]

Its no coincidence. about 30k after install the trans proceeds to destroy itself, changed the fluid all bad noises went away but syncros were already toast.

1+1=2

Dude, what planet are you on?

You put the WRONG fluid in from the get-go. You didn't use ATF. The synchros proceed to rape each other. You change the fluid. ...Ok. Then, you grow a brain and decide to fill with the correct type of fluid. You fill with ATF and the whining is now gone, BECAUSE THE FLUID IS THE CORRECT CONSISTENCY FOR USE WITH THOSE COGS. The whine will come back, btw. You put then wrong fluid in. You used gear oil, not auto trans oil. There is a big difference.

Would you be ripping on royal purple if you filled the motor with 75w140 diff fluid made by them? You can liken that situation to yours. I mean, any oil should work in any application, right? If you're using the wrong oils in the wrong places, they're going to kill themselves. You may as well have used peanut oil, dude.

If we want to use it, go ahead? Ok, we'll just make sure to pit then correct fluid in, like would would with any other brand. I have no idea how you could still possibly be discrediting RP, when you used the wrong fluid. Not the wrong weight...a fluid meant for a different application, completely.

I'm sorry if I've become rhetorical, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around someone complaining for days that he blew a gear set, using then wrong type of fluid...but he's adamant about it being the brand's fault.

Please, tell us more about how right you are and how RP sucks, because you can't read/think.

[sjpgoalie]

Go ahead and use it then, i dont care lol. I never will again and my buddy with the s2000 who had the same thing happen to him never will either. Do NOT use ATF in these trannys they are not designed for it. If you dont believe me call turner motorsport and ask them what they use - redline MTF or gl4 gear oil.

Redline is not the same as other MTFs. Also, they recommend that for every manual trans for every BMW at turner. How is that possible? A coincidence? Same materials? Same manufacturer? Same metals/bearings? No? Hm. I also have spent a lot of time and money at turner when I was younger. Before most of their staff had been working for them.

They are twenty minutes away from me. I would take a lot of what they say as a grain of salt and compare it to what other people and shops have to say. Not going to go any further than that, because I couldn't care any less as to whether they gain or lose any business.

I began ignoring this thread, but you're posting low hanging fruit and this is so sad, that it is funny.

[Pik Masta]

This thread has so much fail... :shifty

[405style]

yeah...i put in regular non approved ATF and drained it every 3 months or so. No shavings no grinds, and $5 a pop. lol

[sjpgoalie]

yeah...i put in regular non approved ATF and drained it every 3 months or so. No shavings no grinds, and $5 a pop. lol

Exactly. Just about any modern ATF is probably fine in these.

FYI, op...the power steering pumps use atf as well. Basically, anything with gears on BMWs, sans the diff, use ATF. Getrag and especially ZF design their units around it and bearings/cogs that agree with ATF.

[mfyoung1086]

oh so its the ATF part thats the problem thank you for explaining that too.... sarcaism btw BMW made the swtich to ATF in the early 90's 91 iirc, in fact I can't think of a modern day trans that still uses gear oil?

I'm sorry that you decided it was a good idea to run a tired trans to its death and then blame it on the last oil that went into the trans.... gonna blame the motor oil when your engine needs a rebuild at 300k miles?

for my street car I use nothing but ATF, the only situation I use gear oil in my getrag is in my track car where I use swepco 201, as ATF doesn't hold up well to the extreme heat of the race track

Although since my track car is gonna be going back to dual use I'm considering blending the swepco with some ATF in a 50/50 mix here to help with cold shifting hey red and blue, it'll be purple just like RP hahaha

edit: and even though like I said I'm not a fan of RP I don't go around bashing them when my 200k mile trans gives up on me... once again if you REALLY think that RP did this damage why did you NOT contact them about their warranty when it happened?

[405style]

oh so its the ATF part thats the problem thank you for explaining that too.... sarcaism btw BMW made the swtich to ATF in the early 90's 91 iirc, in fact I can't think of a modern day trans that still uses gear oil?

I'm sorry that you decided it was a good idea to run a tired trans to its death and then blame it on the last oil that went into the trans.... gonna blame the motor oil when your engine needs a rebuild at 300k miles?

for my street car I use nothing but ATF, the only situation I use gear oil in my getrag is in my track car where I use swepco 201, as ATF doesn't hold up well to the extreme heat of the race track

Although since my track car is gonna be going back to dual use I'm considering blending the swepco with some ATF in a 50/50 mix here to help with cold shifting hey red and blue, it'll be purple just like RP hahaha

edit: and even though like I said I'm not a fan of RP I don't go around bashing them when my 200k mile trans gives up on me... once again if you REALLY think that RP did this damage why did you NOT contact them about their warranty when it happened?

Some idiot recommended lucas gear oil when a gear syncro was sticking when i first bought the car. Couldn t drive it, couldn't even get into gear cold. Drained, flushed, drained flushed, drained flushed, and used plain jane non branded atf since. NOT A SINGLE ISSUE, so i am sorry but fluids do matter. PS, the tranny has 300 000km on it.

[mfyoung1086]

I completely agree with that, there is a reason I don't run swepco in my DD e34 525i

If I don't let the 325i warm up for 15-20 mins on a very cold morning... well cold for Sydney haha, than shifting is a lot more of an effort, and long term would do more damage than it saves on the track. I could envision in a place as cold as toronto in the winter that gear oil would destroy the box very quickly

But on the track where it matters the swepco beats ATF hands down, I ran ATF for my 1st track day out here and I had issues with 2nd popping out and general lack of engagement feel... all gone when the swepco went in but lets make this VERY clear this is on a track where the car is being flogged within an inch of life right, this isn't a spirit drive on the street where you think you're really being hard on the car there is a significant difference and running gear oil on the street makes about as much sense as running my straight 50w in the cold... bad things will happen

Thats why like I said when I sell the 34 in the new year and make the 36 a bit more street friendly part of that will be dropping the swepco and running a 50/50 swepco/ ATF blend... I will also be dropping the 50w and going with a dual blend 20-50 for the summer 10-30 for the winter

anyways the point I'm trying to make street car = ATF unless you have an early getrag that uses gear oil.. the tag will tell

[catalyst.]

OK for the last time, i just called bmw and had them look up the correct fluid part number with my VIN number.

MY CAR WITH the GETRAG 5 speed calls for MTS-LT2 Fluid which is equivalent to a 75w-80 GL4 GEAR OIL

THESE TRANNYS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR ATF OR SYNCROMESH FLUID. The failure i had was probably more because of this than the actual brand. Is it possible that i am blaming the fluid for a mechanical failure? Yes. But as i stated all bad noises went away after changing the fluid. As for why i did not contact them, because they probably would have just hung up on me. And when it comes down to it, i bet they dont even recommend the fluid for this transmission.

Now some have reported using atf d4 with no issues.. do so at your own risk. The reason i cant recommend this is because ATF is an equivalent viscosity to 5w20 (or less depending on brand) motor oil. Far thinner than what it is designed for.

Not sure how my thread is a fail if i am giving you the correct information.

- - - Updated - - -


Dude, what planet are you on?

You put the WRONG fluid in from the get-go. You didn't use ATF. The synchros proceed to rape each other. You change the fluid. ...Ok. Then, you grow a brain and decide to fill with the correct type of fluid. You fill with ATF and the whining is now gone, BECAUSE THE FLUID IS THE CORRECT CONSISTENCY FOR USE WITH THOSE COGS. The whine will come back, btw. You put then wrong fluid in. You used gear oil, not auto trans oil. There is a big difference.

Would you be ripping on royal purple if you filled the motor with 75w140 diff fluid made by them? You can liken that situation to yours. I mean, any oil should work in any application, right? If you're using the wrong oils in the wrong places, they're going to kill themselves. You may as well have used peanut oil, dude.

If we want to use it, go ahead? Ok, we'll just make sure to pit then correct fluid in, like would would with any other brand. I have no idea how you could still possibly be discrediting RP, when you used the wrong fluid. Not the wrong weight...a fluid meant for a different application, completely.

I'm sorry if I've become rhetorical, but I'm having trouble wrapping my head around someone complaining for days that he blew a gear set, using then wrong type of fluid...but he's adamant about it being the brand's fault.

Please, tell us more about how right you are and how RP sucks, because you can't read/think.

you are flat out wrong as stated above ATF is equivalent to 5w20, to add to that syncromesh fluid is equivalent to 5w30. Neither is correct.

[405style]

OK for the last time, i just called bmw and had them look up the correct fluid part number with my VIN number.

MY CAR WITH the GETRAG 5 speed calls for MTS-LT2 Fluid which is equivalent to a 75w-80 GL4 GEAR OIL

THESE TRANNYS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR ATF OR SYNCROMESH FLUID. The failure i had was probably more because of this than the actual brand. Is it possible that i am blaming the fluid for a mechanical failure? Yes. But as i stated all bad noises went away after changing the fluid. As for why i did not contact them, because they probably would have just hung up on me. And when it comes down to it, i bet they dont even recommend the fluid for this transmission.

Now some have reported using atf d4 with no issues.. do so at your own risk. The reason i cant recommend this is because ATF is an equivalent viscosity to 5w20 (or less depending on brand) motor oil. Far thinner than what it is designed for.

Not sure how my thread is a fail if i am giving you the correct information.

Thats why the tranny has a MASSIVE sticker on the side that clearly says " ATF ONLY". My tranny is identical to yours, the same getrag shared between the 318, the 320 and the 325. I like how you miss the part about 300 000km, with zero grinds, whines, etc. Never pops out of gear ever, and the car was heavily tracked. I mean but go ahead, believe a hack, you"re clearly an expert.

And I call complete BULLSHIT on gearoil equivelancy. Put that gear oil in, you won't even be able to get INTO a gear below 60F

[D. Hitchcock]

Damnit, the point is some use ATF and some use gear oil. It depends on the gearbox.

I had a getrag 260 on my e30 325i that was spec'd for gear oil, but the gearbox on my e46 323i touring says specifically that it takes ATF.

When in doubt, find and read the paper label on the gearbox.

[mfyoung1086]

oh must listen to the expert I'm a sorry boss didn't realize you were the BMW yoda

You must be since you didn't know that BMW used both ATF and Gear oil in the Getrag... which is why you're supposed to see if you car is green label (ATF) or yellow label (Gear oil)

I'm actually gonna call BS on you calling BMW over this they would have told you that, or they're the worst BMW dealership around

also just for your info I found BMW recommend services intervals on your manual again, its 30k miles congrats on running it 10k too long and then complaining when the synchros wore

[405style]

oh must listen to the expert I'm a sorry boss didn't realize you were the BMW yoda

You must be since you didn't know that BMW used both ATF and Gear oil in the Getrag... which is why you're supposed to see if you car is green label (ATF) or yellow label (Gear oil)

I'm actually gonna call BS on you calling BMW over this they would have told you that, or they're the worst BMW dealership around

also just for your info I found BMW recommend services intervals on your manual again, its 30k miles congrats on running it 10k too long and then complaining when the synchros wore

Never EVER seen a yellow labeled e36 tranny, not even the 92s. What a great dealer that is. They must be expecting new tranny purchases LOL

[D. Hitchcock]

Never EVER seen a yellow labeled e36 tranny, not even the 92s. What a great dealer that is. They must be expecting new tranny purchases LOL

This.

[mfyoung1086]

Never EVER seen a yellow labeled e36 tranny, not even the 92s. What a great dealer that is. They must be expecting new tranny purchases LOL

I've seen a couple since I moved to Australia, never in the US though... but Aus got the 36 early like my 36 is a 91, July production date car no abs, originally equiped with a yellow label

that yellow label is long gone though and the trans currently in the car is a green label

[Auto Parts Guy]

Redline ATF D4 is great in these transmissions. Gear Oil not so much

[catalyst.]

Hey man they looked it up with the VIN number, what can i say

They also say it is a lifetime fluid, never heard of an interval on it. I dont care for that thinking but i dont think to many people are changing their trans fluid every oil change.

[cabdolla]

I put Mobil 1 75W-90 LS fluid in my diff, and Mobil 1 snyth ATF in tranny, and Mobil 1 synth 10w-30 (or 0W-40) in motor.

I put whatever is cheapest gasoline though lol.

[catalyst.]

lol this thread is heated, i like it

[sjpgoalie]

OK for the last time, i just called bmw and had them look up the correct fluid part number with my VIN number.

MY CAR WITH the GETRAG 5 speed calls for MTS-LT2 Fluid which is equivalent to a 75w-80 GL4 GEAR OIL

THESE TRANNYS ARE NOT DESIGNED FOR ATF OR SYNCROMESH FLUID. The failure i had was probably more because of this than the actual brand. Is it possible that i am blaming the fluid for a mechanical failure? Yes. But as i stated all bad noises went away after changing the fluid. As for why i did not contact them, because they probably would have just hung up on me. And when it comes down to it, i bet they dont even recommend the fluid for this transmission.

Now some have reported using atf d4 with no issues.. do so at your own risk. The reason i cant recommend this is because ATF is an equivalent viscosity to 5w20 (or less depending on brand) motor oil. Far thinner than what it is designed for.

Not sure how my thread is a fail if i am giving you the correct information.

- - - Updated - - -



you are flat out wrong as stated above ATF is equivalent to 5w20, to add to that syncromesh fluid is equivalent to 5w30. Neither is correct.

Sure. We'll say I'm the one who is incorrect. I'm not the one with a blown out trans, though. ATF in my car, nearly 300hp, 200k miles, ATF - Not blown.

I have never blown a getrag or a ZF and I've always used ATF. I have had two of each. What dealer are you calling? How do you figure that some places say some models years require gear oil, others say no. How can tens or hundreds of credible sources have mixed specifications? Same trans, same year, yet different companies and dealers say they require different oil. Makes no sense. Zero change were made to the Getrag in e36s through the entire run.

Let's look at what you've done again. You put gear oil with a much higher surface tension, with completely different thermal properties. Do you know what happens when you lubricate something with oil that is too thick than required...in this case FAR thicker than required? Excess drag and friction. That is how you burnt your syncrhos out.

BMW is telling you that you need that gear oil BECAUSE THAT IS ALL THEY CARRY FOR MANUAL TRANSMISSIONS. You'll be getting the same gear oil that is intended for e90s, F30s, and any other BMW with a manual transmission. No matter the model or manufacturer of the trans. Call the dealer back and ask them for yourself. They do this for a LOT of parts/fluids. See trans mounts, engine mounts, shock mounts, various other bushings, fluids, filters, seals, gaskets, bolts, pads, discs, etc., etc. Do you really think they're going to stock individual fluids for the past two decades and four generations of 3ers within that span, then each of their models? BMW stocks two engine oil weights, two different trans oil weights, one diff fluid weight and one coolant formula. Every car that you call BMW for in reference to a fluid needed - it falls into one of two or the only category of a fluid.

I have an S52, so when I call for an engine part or fluid, I tell them I have a 97 M3 as that is what the motor is from. I put 5w30 in last winter and called before went to pick it up at the dealer. Told them the model, and he tells me it requires 10w60. I told him no, absolutely not, don't you have 5w30? He said yes, but it is an M car. I told him he was high and no M car in the US required 10w60 before the E46M, of which was originally suggested to run 5w30 as well. HE IS NOT LOOKING IT UP IN THE COMPUTER.

If you tell them you have a manual trans, you will be given manual fluid. Whether you have a ZF, getrag, etc.

Riddle me this. Does your trans have external, 17mm hex drain and fill plugs?

[joey79]

I ran RP Synchromax in my Getrag for almost 80,000km. I did not experience any problems while using it, or since changing it out about 20,000km ago (been running Redline D4 ATF since). 255,000km on my car, and zero transmission problems. Even in temperatures as low as -40. I'm not defending RP, I'm just stating my experience with it.

[sjpgoalie]

lol this thread is heated, i like it

I also just called two of my local dealers. I got THREE different answers, from two dealers and they weren't sure what an M3 ZF was supposed to take (THE TRANSMISSION ARE THE SAME EXACT PART # in comparison to a 328). Neither said they knew if it took different fluid than the 328 ZF trans or whether or not the getrags took different oil.

He needed to know what month during 1996 that my transmission was produced (97 model built in 96). Nothing ever changed, so why would they change fluid weights from one month to the next? They didn't at the time. It's just been so long since the car was sold and worked on at dealers, that they're telling you MTF for an manual trans, because that is what they've designed modern getrags and ZFs around. He claimed 98/99 M3s and 328s use MTF and that during a month around mid-97, ZF switched over from ATF to said MTF.

Bottom line is, you should probably call getrag, because BMW doesn't know.

I know for a fact that my trans requires and has always been filled with ATF from the get-go. The three answers I got were - One said MTF, the other said MTF, then switched to: not sure...don't want to give wrong answer, sorry.

You can call the two dealers that I checked with.
-Tulley BMW in Nashua NH - (603) 888-5050
-BMW of Peabody MA - (978) 538-9900

You'll be on the phone for a while, because they're going to be looking through TIS. If you're on the phone for less than a few minutes, they didn't look and BS'd you.

If you have external hex plugs, you're trans was filled with ATF at the factory and you swapped in gear oil that is thick enough to lubricate some diffs. If you want to confirm that, look it up in TIS. I am not posted links to that stuff for obvious reasons.

[405style]

Hey man they looked it up with the VIN number, what can i say

They also say it is a lifetime fluid, never heard of an interval on it. I dont care for that thinking but i dont think to many people are changing their trans fluid every oil change.

No such thing as lifetime fluid, wait till you change your lifetime power steering fluid, new found smoothness and silence, mind blown.

[FallenMonk]

Someone posted in this thread that "nobody ever said to use ATF" in these manual transmissions. Nobody but BMW. There should be a paper label on the tranny that tells you whether to use manual transmission fluid or ATF.

I just use Dexon III because that's what BMW said. ATF in a manual tranny sounds loony but all the research I did yielded the same result. So I dunno why everyone is using gear oil. My bimmer is a 1992 BMW 318i