Overheated today... Need advice/help

[e21racer]

Just picked up a 95 m3, driven for a couple weeks with no probs, no maintenance records came with it, 160,xxx miles. today went out for dinner and noticed temp needle moving up, turned around immediately and went the 5-6 miles home, needle went up and the red light came on. Top hose is hot as shit bottom hose is cool, guessing that tstat is stuck closed. If it ran in the red for a couple minutes is the head gone? No white smoke from exhaust. I noticed a sound coming from the firewall around where heater core hoses are. Going to do a tstat check, radiator/engine flush tomorrow. will a water pump off a 98 323is fit on this car? Please don't tell me I need a new head/tons of other shit. Thanks for any help.

[Schultz28]

youre just gonna have to wait and see if any water/coolant gets in your oil or oil gets in your coolant or if you just start dumping white smoke. if those dont happen you should be fine.

and before you drive it again especially if you dont know when your cooling system was replaced you should just replace everything (i.e. radiator/endtank, water pump, themostat, and hoses... possibly fan clutch) and dont go cheap at least try to get quality parts. it is most definitely one of the weak points on e36's.

[Sozo]

1) Keep under close supervision
2) Replace thermostat + housing, H2O pump, fan clutch, hoses SOON!
3)Start saving for a new head

After all I've read over the past 4-6 months you'll end up doing the above sooner or later. I did. I bought mine with 160K and had to do all the above last month after overheating on 2 seperate occasion over 12 mos. I'm just saying.

[erobinson]

I agree with Schultz that you should go ahead and overhaul the cooling system now. It can be done with OE parts for <$300. I don't think the 323is pump fits... but an OE M3 pump is only $50.

Also, do a compression test and inspect your oil/coolant for discoloration.

And you probably know this now, but the moment you see that gauge go above middle, pull over and get a tow. Our gauges have a wide range of "normal", and once it is rising it might be too late.

[Sozo]

youre just gonna have to wait and see if any water/coolant gets in your oil or oil gets in your coolant or if you just start dumping white smoke. if those dont happen you should be fine.

and before you drive it again especially if you dont know when your cooling system was replaced you should just replace everything (i.e. radiator/endtank, water pump, themostat, and hoses... possibly fan clutch) and dont go cheap at least try to get quality parts. it is most definitely one of the weak points on e36's.

+1
Oh yeah, I forgot the radiator! :embarrasm I got a Mishimoto for sale when you're ready.

[e21racer]

Just went back out and checked it after it cooled all the way down, let it run for about 2 mins, white exhaust and water in exhaust pipes. me.

[cmzwirner]

I overheated into the red at one point, and immediately shut the car down and had it towed home. That is exactly what you should have done when you saw that needle creeping towards the right.

There is a high chance that that the few minutes you spent in the red permanently warped the head to the point where it could cause leaks. I was in the red for a few seconds.

The first thing you should do is replace the thermostat. If the coolant reached that temp, the thermostat is cooked. It will stay stuck shut, and will cause the engine to overheat over and over again.

Next, keep an eye on the exhaust on first startup. White smoke is a sign of coolant in the combustion chamber. Blue smoke is a sign of oil.

Pull the plugs, make sure they arent white/wet from coolant. Look at the pistons and make sure that there is carbon buildup on each of them. If one is clean, you have coolant in the combustion chamber and it is steam cleaning the pistons.

As usual, check for a milky substance in the oil, and oil in the coolant. Check for residual cooling system pressure after a full 12 hour cooldown. Send an oil sample off to blackstone labs to make sure there is no coolant in your oil.

You can also perform a leakdown test. A compression test wont tell you if the headgasket is gone, or if the head is warped.

Good luck! After my overheat i was very cautious with the engine for a little while. I performed all of the above checks, besides the leakdown test. I was fine. A few months later i went turbo, and brought my head to a machine shop. Even though the head was overheated, the shop said it was in great condition. Pressure test was perfect, and only 4 thousandths needed to be taken off of the surface to make it perfectly flat.

Edit: That sucks. :(

[kornkid8600]

You gotta shut it down immediately. 1 minute too long can kill the head gasket.

tapatalk

[e21racer]

When I let it run tonight it went just above half on temp gauge, and I went around and noticed the white smoke and water in tail pipes. Immediately shut her off and started furiously screaming profanity. Anyone have a good head and cooling system shit? How much am I looking at to fix this bitch? I can (and have) fixed everything on all my bimmers, just never pulled a head on one. I have done it on older 4s, 6s and v8s, but nothing as technologically new as an s50.

[cmzwirner]

IIRC, S52 and M52 heads are interchangeable. Look in the classifieds for a used but good head. They are quite plentiful.

Pulling the head is easy work, but is time consuming if it is your first time. It goes much faster with an air ratchet though.

To pull a head you have to:
Lock engine at TDC
Drain oil and coolant.
Pull entire cooling system, minus the waterpump.
Remove intake manifold
Disconnect any connections to the head that are under the manifold
Remove valve cover
Lock cams in place with cam block tools
Remove vanos
Remove cam sprockets, secure timing chain
Remove stock BMW bolts with E14(?) torx socket
Pull head with cams attached

Installation is the reversal of removal, but you have to time the cams. Pelicanparts has a good writeup on it. Timing the cams is just getting them in the right postiton at TDC, and them reinstalling the sprockets timing chain and vanos.

From there you just re-attach everything.

Honestly, the hardest part of my headgasket job was getting the exhaust off. I was fighting with a stripped bolt for 6 hours or so until i sawzalled the midpipe. It was easy from there on out.

[Sozo]

Just went back out and checked it after it cooled all the way down, let it run for about 2 mins, white exhaust and water in exhaust pipes. me.

I feel for you, dawg. Time to get busy making that $$$!


When I let it run tonight it went just above half on temp gauge, and I went around and noticed the white smoke and water in tail pipes. Immediately shut her off and started furiously screaming profanity. Anyone have a good head and cooling system shit? How much am I looking at to fix this bitch? I can (and have) fixed everything on all my bimmers, just never pulled a head on one. I have done it on older 4s, 6s and v8s, but nothing as technologically new as an s50.

Costs: parts approx. $1000-1500
Labor @ shop: start @ $1500+

I got a rebuilt head for $700. Had BMW install it and Dr. Vanos kit...$1900
I did all the cooling system myself. Mishimoto, water pump, themostat and housing, hoses, belts, fan and fan clutch. Parts cost me about $500-600.

Good luck, my man.

[breakfast]

possible your little garage warm up was just normal condensation out the exhaust?(because thats not enough time for it to all burn off)

thats what im thinking.... was not smart at all to keep driving(how can you own so many cars and be that out to lunch? :o )

but you MAY not be screwed.

[realjones]

Check under the oil cap for that milkshake appearance...look in the coolant tank as well...have a shop take a look at it and see what they say.

Although not a great sign, it is not a guarantee that you blew the gasket just because of a little white smoke.

[realjones]

Check under the oil cap for that milkshake appearance...look in the coolant tank as well...have a shop take a look at it and see what they say.

Although not a great sign, it is not a guarantee that you blew the gasket just because of a little white smoke.

[btheo]

Good luck dude. Let us know the results.

[e21racer]

possible your little garage warm up was just normal condensation out the exhaust?(because thats not enough time for it to all burn off)

thats what im thinking.... was not smart at all to keep driving(how can you own so many cars and be that out to lunch? :o )

but you MAY not be screwed.

Too much water to be condensation. i wasnt really out to lunch bc i noticed the needle moving up as soon as it started, it ran in the red about one minute at the most on my street as i pulled into my driveway, and i realize it wasnt smart to keep driving but I had no other way to get the car back to my house. luckily I have so many other cars to drive while I fix this one. More importantly, the previous owner should have done some routine maintenance with the cooling system, or at least told me that he did nothing. With any info this situation could have been avoided. In any case, I only paid $3000 for the car, so it might be a good candidate for a v8 transplant. LS1 or m5 v8? Maybe built 5.0? Info on the future of this car/problem will be forthcoming. Thanks to the helpful people for the info and luck, not so much to the others.

[btheo]

Awe man, you cant blame the prev owner on that one. Mark it up as your bad. :(

[dano670]

i got a used m50 head for my s52 for $75. everything swapped over and freshened up for $300. another $300 in parts.

since you mentioned u have experience with v8s, it took me 7 to 8 hours to do both heads on my 289. the m3 took about a less than 12.

[grke36m3]

I would still fix the tstat and run it then drain the oil and look for signs of a blown head gasket. I overheated my car to the point where the needle went in the red and blew a radiator hose. Thought the car was done because everyone on the forums acts like if the needle moves one degree past the middle your motor is shot. So I replaced the rad and had no issues. Hasn't lost a drop of coolant and I check it on a weakly basis. So basically unless your car is smoking like you just sea-foamed it you might be fine.

[e21racer]

Awe man, you cant blame the prev owner on that one. Mark it up as your bad. :(

Yes but info would have been helpful. I realize I am responsible for the car as soon as I take ownership. Had I know nothing was taken care of for 160,000 miles, I would never have driven it until the entire cooling system was replaced, at least water pump and tstat. But it is def my bad that I didn't do it anyway. Never again will I get an e36 without doing the cooling system before it even gets registered.

[btheo]

Yes but info would have been helpful. I realize I am responsible for the car as soon as I take ownership. Had I know nothing was taken care of for 160,000 miles, I would never have driven it until the entire cooling system was replaced, at least water pump and tstat. But it is def my bad that I didn't do it anyway. Never again will I get an e36 without doing the cooling system before it even gets registered.
No man I gotcha, sorry about your problem, at least you are now given the opportunity to explore various avenues and options. I liked what GRKe36 said in reply.

[RatedM3]

Awe man, you cant blame the prev owner on that one. Mark it up as your bad. :(


Yes but info would have been helpful. I realize I am responsible for the car as soon as I take ownership. Had I know nothing was taken care of for 160,000 miles, I would never have driven it until the entire cooling system was replaced, at least water pump and tstat. But it is def my bad that I didn't do it anyway. Never again will I get an e36 without doing the cooling system before it even gets registered.

Hate to be blunt about it but didn't you research about these cars before you bought one? You should have known cooling system is a must if you have no records. And, you most definitely should have known not to even let that needle get within 5 centimeters of the red.

Good luck with repair/replace. I would re-do the head and be done with it. The gaskets need to be replaced at one point anyways.

[e21racer]

Hate to be blunt about it but didn't you research about these cars before you bought one? You should have known cooling system is a must if you have no records. And, you most definitely should have known not to even let that needle get within 5 centimeters of the red.

Good luck with repair/replace. I would re-do the head and be done with it. The gaskets need to be replaced at one point anyways.

I have owned e36's before, man. I have never had any problems with them because I do maintenance on time, every time, on every car, not just bimmers. I guess I assumed that people take care of nice things.... Assumptions can be expensive.

On a positive note, no oil in coolant, no coolant in oil, no white smoke from exhaust, took the tstat out, flushed radiator, let it run for a few, no probs, but I didn't drive it. Ordering water pump tomorrow. Hopefully, like a few other members, I'll get lucky and didn't do any real damage.

[Sozo]

I apologize for the seemingly "doomsday" report. I KNOW how it feels when other folks (WHO DON'T DRIVE YOUR CAR) give advice that you solicit and then it isn't good. True, nonetheless, based on their experience, but a bit of a downer. BTW, I've owned 4 BMW's all over 120K. I've swapped the head on three. Two due to overheating. That's my experience.
Nevertheless, my bad and I truly do hope all goes contrary to my own VERY recent experience.

[berserkr]

Yes but info would have been helpful. I realize I am responsible for the car as soon as I take ownership. Had I know nothing was taken care of for 160,000 miles, I would never have driven it until the entire cooling system was replaced, at least water pump and tstat. But it is def my bad that I didn't do it anyway. Never again will I get an e36 without doing the cooling system before it even gets registered.

Well, did you ask when you bought the car? If not, why would you assume?

[e21racer]

No prob sozo, your info def gave me a look into what might still be my worst case scenario. And all the info i can get is appreciated, just tired of people saying "RED is BAD!" i realize this, i have been driving and taking care of cars for 15 years. Btw I did ask PO and he said that the person he got the car from had taken care of everything(no records = red flag though) and he only had the car for a couple years.

[Bimmerman535i]

http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9269039.jpg

Chances are you probably need to.

[Sozo]

I've been there too many times, e21. We all have at least once, I'm sure. Again, blessings on this mini adventure. Wrenching on your own is always rewarding. Costs are the only sucky part!:mad

[e21racer]

Main culprit found last night, and the winner is...... Water pump! Swapped it out and refilled coolant, drove down the block, no probs, went out to dinner (10-15 miles), no probs. gonna keep an eye on it for the next couple days/weeks/months and drive granny style for a little while. Hopefully the heat didn't do any real damage, but seems ok now. Wish me luck and thanks for all the info/help guys.


http://images.memegenerator.net/instances/500x/9269039.jpg

Chances are you probably need to.

Haha, good advice. Sidenote my fiancée is a Subaru nut also, but I can't talk her into a wrx sti, she won't get rid of her legacy outback

[Sozo]

Right on, bro! I'm glad to hear it. Sleep with one eye open, though...it is an e36 after all!!

[Bimmerman535i]

Haha, good advice. Sidenote my fiancée is a Subaru nut also, but I can't talk her into a wrx sti, she won't get rid of her legacy outback

Legacies are better anyway haha. What year is hers?

On the water pump, it's quite likely the HG is also toast. My cooling issues went like this.

-- early springtrack day-- temp rose once on track to 2/3 mark, I backed off, no issues.
-- 4 months DD use spring-midsummer, no cooling issues. Dead steady
--track day midsummer, could not get more than 3 laps at 8/10 pace before temp shot to the 2/3 mark. Bled system, no change. Fan was visibly wobbling. Drive home 2hrs with heat blasting, temp vacillating between 1/2-2/3 mark.
--discover tstat housing had failed, water pump had failed at 35k miles. Replace tstat, tstat housing, install stewart water pump, install electric fan, install euro coolant reservoir, install MM underpanel (more airflow to radiator)
--track day two weeks later. 5 laps/session before temp spikes, ~85F ambient temp. Had another issue that forced a tow home.
--fix unrelated issue, car begins to overheat on the way to/from safeway 3miles away. From a dead cold, car gets normally warm at Safeway, then by the time I get home, temp is at 2/3 mark.
--leave car at home, go to grad school for three months
--return december, replace the head gasket, find all sorts of wonderful problems, replace all the things. For the last two days of break the car worked fine.
--leave for grad school again

that's where I am now. It sucks, but since you got the car way hotter than I ever did I would not be surprised at all if your HG went. I'm still not 100% sure my issue was solved, I won't be until I get back for spring break next week and go track the piss out of it. Torture testing is fun.

[Sozo]

Legacies are better anyway haha. What year is hers?

On the water pump, it's quite likely the HG is also toast. My cooling issues went like this.

-- early springtrack day-- temp rose once on track to 2/3 mark, I backed off, no issues.
-- 4 months DD use spring-midsummer, no cooling issues. Dead steady
--track day midsummer, could not get more than 3 laps at 8/10 pace before temp shot to the 2/3 mark. Bled system, no change. Fan was visibly wobbling. Drive home 2hrs with heat blasting, temp vacillating between 1/2-2/3 mark.
--discover tstat housing had failed, water pump had failed at 35k miles. Replace tstat, tstat housing, install stewart water pump, install electric fan, install euro coolant reservoir, install MM underpanel (more airflow to radiator)
--track day two weeks later. 5 laps/session before temp spikes, ~85F ambient temp. Had another issue that forced a tow home.
--fix unrelated issue, car begins to overheat on the way to/from safeway 3miles away. From a dead cold, car gets normally warm at Safeway, then by the time I get home, temp is at 2/3 mark.
--leave car at home, go to grad school for three months
--return december, replace the head gasket, find all sorts of wonderful problems, replace all the things. For the last two days of break the car worked fine.
--leave for grad school again

that's where I am now. It sucks, but since you got the car way hotter than I ever did I would not be surprised at all if your HG went. I'm still not 100% sure my issue was solved, I won't be until I get back for spring break next week and go track the piss out of it. Torture testing is fun.

+1
I talked to a guy who gets their heads from S. Africa. Very knowledgable about BMW head design. He told me any time the car overheats you can consider your head ON THE WAY out. You may not experience catastrophic failure immediately but it'll happen eventually.

I chose not to buy a used head from ebay, private seller, to bypass all the BS. I went here:

http://www.autoheadperformance.com/main/page_bmw_heads.html

Decent price a great quality. Save the link. Just in case.;)