FINALLY dyno'ed my 95 M3... [Archive] - Bimmerforums

Armo95

02-16-2004, 12:15 PM

Just got back from dynoing her. Cold day...I think temp is like 20D out there. Somewhat bad for a dynoing a car...anyway, I have to go over my cousin's house sometime this week to scan them, but here's how I did.

First pull w/ AFR:

234rwhp/222rwtq.

AFR: 17.5 This really scares me, what do you guys think I should do here as far as the fuel problem? The dyno guy told me I could see a potential 10-12rwhp if I mess around with the air/fuel. Do you guys think I should get a new chip and some different injectors?

Second pull w/ AFR:

232rwhp/218rwtq.

AFR was 17.5 yet again. I don't know, I'm hoping with some tweaking in this area, I can it down to 13-14 and hopefully more power.

What do you guys think? I think it's kind of low considering the mods I have done, maybe something is up with the car? But it pulls HARD as hell and feels VERY strong, I hope nothing is messed though:(

Mods listed below...

badmonkey

02-16-2004, 12:34 PM

17.5 is certainly something to be concerned about.
Post the sheet if you can.

95RogueM3

02-16-2004, 01:47 PM

WHere was the afr 17? was it throughout the entire pull or just right up near redline?

I spent last night searching the forum about the different available chips and which ones run lean vs. rich and discovered conforti tended to tune his chips for the 24# injectors and hfm rich right near redline for safety. I dont know about the rest of the graph being 17 though..thats way high.

-Richard

rmani

02-16-2004, 01:58 PM

pretty good numbers

Armo95

02-16-2004, 03:00 PM

Here's a wide shot. Ther AFR doesn't seem too off, but 17.5 is damn high.

Armo95

02-16-2004, 03:01 PM

Power:

vjlax18

02-16-2004, 03:19 PM

A/F looks like it never goes over 14.5, and that's in the low RPM. Looks like it's well rich in the upper RPM.

And why does it only run to 6600?

badmonkey

02-16-2004, 03:23 PM

Someone got their HP scale mixed up with the a/f scale? :dunno :rofl:

Ron17

02-16-2004, 03:28 PM

Originally posted by badmonkey
Someone got their HP scale mixed up with the a/f scale? :dunno :rofl:

:lol:

Where's the tq curve, also? :dunno

vjlax18

02-16-2004, 03:30 PM

:lol: Didn't want to say that...

Spencer

02-16-2004, 04:20 PM

:biglaughb :biglaughb :biglaughb

When I read that first post, I was wondering how the hell your motor was still intact. You wouldn't get far running WOT with a 17:1 mixture.

That a/f actually looks way too rich to me. At the upper end, you've got forced induction A/F numbers.

And why did it stop at only ~6600rpms? :dunno

J4SON

02-16-2004, 04:29 PM

:biglaughb :biglaughb nice job there
:handclap

Armo95

02-16-2004, 07:19 PM

Well, here goes:

Don't know why torque curve isn't there. This is what the dyno guy printed out for me.

I don't why they stopped at 6600, where were they suppose to stop and would it have made a difference in power numbers?

Any suggestions? Thanks...

badmonkey

02-16-2004, 07:27 PM

Did the dyno guy hook up the timing pickup to #1? If they didn't, no torque curve. If they did, someone just forgot to click the torque button in the dynojet reader. FYI, you can d/l the dynojet viewer from dynjet's website, and have the dynomonkey email the data to you.

Looks like they hammered it at 3k rpm, hence the "lean" mixture from 1500 to 3k. It's so fat up top 6600rpm may have been as far as it would go! Good numbers, lean it out about a point up top you'll probably pick up the power dyno guy was referring to.

johnnym3

02-16-2004, 07:33 PM

I would say yeah your horsepower # might go up a few more, if you look at your graph were they stopped the power seemed to be still climbing slightly. But I would agree that your car is way to rich near redline, you dip in to the 11's. You can probally see another 5-10 hp with better afr's , most tuners like to get the afr's up top in the high 12 to low 13 range for best hp.

Armo95

02-16-2004, 07:39 PM

Well I remember seeing the torque curve numbers as he was showing them on the screen, but when he printed it out, I didn't even look before I got home. Too busy concerned about my air/fuel deal...

Thanks guys. Maybe I should try and get 21.5 injectors and getting a custom tune from Stickley or someone else? Thoughts?

I think the numbers look good considering I haven't done cams yet. But the air/fuel really pissed me off. Maybe I should've told the guy I had a chip and to revv her to 7K.

badmonkey,

Called DSR and they still haven't called me back about their cams...:dunno

badmonkey

02-16-2004, 07:43 PM

Only talk to DC (Dick Chiang), the owner. I've had zero luck with anyone else there...

Spencer

02-16-2004, 07:52 PM

Its not the size of the injectors that is the problem, its the software.

If you want to get that last bit of HP, get a custom tuned chip on the dyno. Better yet, get a Tec3. I'm sure BadMonkey can attest to its tuning power to get those last few HP out of the motor.

BTW, what is the "TMS Custom Chip" that you list in your sig? Is it the standard euro hfm/24lb injector chip from Conforti? I run that software, and I was much leaner that you when I had it dyno'd a couple years ago. Then again, I dont have the heades/track pipe combo.

johnnym3

02-16-2004, 08:00 PM

Hey Armo95 you should call Cyntex in Westchester,Pa there not to far from you . They do custom dyno tuning on there mustang dyno and burn chips. The guy who ownes the place name is Paul, the phone # is 1(610) 738-8804 . The guy really knows his stuff, he works on Porche 911's. He has the same type of dyno that Stickley tunes on, and your car is obd1 so he can really dial in your afr's and timing.

Armo95

02-16-2004, 09:46 PM

Originally posted by johnnym3
Hey Armo95 you should call Cyntex in Westchester,Pa there not to far from you . They do custom dyno tuning on there mustang dyno and burn chips. The guy who ownes the place name is Paul, the phone # is 1(610) 738-8804 . The guy really knows his stuff, he works on Porche 911's. He has the same type of dyno that Stickley tunes on, and your car is obd1 so he can really dial in your afr's and timing.

Great info all.

Interesting johnnym3...I will give him a call and see what he says. Thanks a lot Johnny.

Spencer,
The TMS chip, done by Conforti is tuned for the HFM/24# and that's it. I'm thinking maybe go with a custom tune job for my car.

badmonkey,
Thanks man. But every damn time I call, some other guy has a message. If I had DC's personal number, I would contact him, but I don't, any help?

Thanks again guys for the advice on this...gotta get things done before the summer...

RogRacer

02-16-2004, 10:51 PM

I don't want to rain on your parade...but if you *really* tested at 20 deg F, and your results are Actual Horsepower, you really can't draw any conclusions. Even if you apply SAE corrections, your test conditions are so far off of standard, that they really don't mean much.

E30 Stu

02-16-2004, 10:58 PM

Armo, were you on a Dynojet?

Those are good numbers. I need to look into boring my throttle body.

Armo95

02-17-2004, 09:04 AM

Originally posted by RogRacer
I don't want to rain on your parade...but if you *really* tested at 20 deg F, and your results are Actual Horsepower, you really can't draw any conclusions. Even if you apply SAE corrections, your test conditions are so far off of standard, that they really don't mean much.

I know, that's why I'm still lost as to where I am. The dyno guy even said, "You picked the absolute WORST day for dynoing a car as far as conditions go...your results won't be very accurate."

He said I would show significantly lower and the conditions are completely against me today. So now I don't know what to do...but would this affect air/fuel THAT much?

E30 Stu,

Bored TB is well worth it man, I did a writeup on it when I installed it not too long ago, do a search on the E36 M3 forum and you'll come across it.

Yes, this was a dyno jet. But judging from what everyone has said so far and what conclusions I'm drawing, it seems like these guys didn't know what the hell they were doing and if they did, they didn't do it all right when they did my car...

I'm going to call this place in Penn that johnny suggested and see what they say. Worse comes to worse, I'll take a drive up there and let them test and tune my car to the most potential and custom burn a nice chip for me. Then maybe, hopefully, I'll get the next 10rw-12 the guy was telling me I would, and the mixture will be MUCH smoother line to redline.

diffsonline

02-17-2004, 06:39 PM

Armo95

02-17-2004, 06:41 PM

Originally posted by Stickley Sedan
their dyno IS what stickley tunes on....thats where i got tuned

Do you recommend them? I plan on giving them a call tomorrow to set a date for me to go up there and for them to tune/tweak my car to the limit.

Thoughts? Thanks man...

diffsonline

02-17-2004, 06:47 PM

i would email chuck directly to set something up
www.cssmotorsports.com
his email is on the page

Armo95

02-18-2004, 01:01 PM

UPDATE:

Talked to Paul at Cyntex. Scheduled an appointment to go and custom tune my car etc.

Will let everyone know how it goes once everything is set and done. I'm going on Monday, March 23rd if anyone would like to join from the area :)

Paul said if I get there around 9 or so, it should take until mid day around 12 or 1 for them to finish all the tweaking and tuning on my car...I can't wait!

Price he said 500-600. Sound right for custom tuning and what not...?

diffsonline

02-18-2004, 02:29 PM

yeah man that sounds right. took me 1-2 hrs of actual work/tuning

Armo95

02-18-2004, 04:23 PM

Sweet. Let's see what magic these guys can work for me on March 23rd...:D Stay tuned...

Spencer

02-18-2004, 04:59 PM

If Chuck Stickley is in your area, I'd be at his door.

No offense to this Paul guy, but Stickley is one of the top engine builders in the country. And he's in your neighborhood.

RogRacer

02-18-2004, 05:34 PM

See the thing that bugs me are these internet postings of horsepower. Armo95 is a perfect example. He's an honest, up-front guy I'm sure. An enthusiastic enthusiast. But....he posts his 234 hp rwhp rating in his signature. Failing to mention that it is *not* SAE corrected...*and* was performed at 20 deg F. In reality he could be producing a little over 200, depending on the barometric conditions at the time.

This is how bad information is spread. Sorry, it bugs me, but I don't mean to be the information police or anything.

Armo95

02-18-2004, 05:56 PM

Originally posted by Spencer
If Chuck Stickley is in your area, I'd be at his door.

No offense to this Paul guy, but Stickley is one of the top engine builders in the country. And he's in your neighborhood.

Stickley is going to be there the day I head up there:clap: :D I'll take that...

Armo95

02-18-2004, 05:57 PM

Originally posted by RogRacer
See the thing that bugs me are these internet postings of horsepower. Armo95 is a perfect example. He's an honest, up-front guy I'm sure. An enthusiastic enthusiast. But....he posts his 234 hp rwhp rating in his signature. Failing to mention that it is *not* SAE corrected...*and* was performed at 20 deg F. In reality he could be producing a little over 200, depending on the barometric conditions at the time.

This is how bad information is spread. Sorry, it bugs me, but I don't mean to be the information police or anything.

Just for you...;)

RogRacer

02-18-2004, 06:28 PM

Originally posted by Armo95
Just for you...;)

See...I *told* you you're an up-front guy! :clap:

johnnym3

02-18-2004, 06:40 PM

Hey Armo95 this guy Paul really knows how to tune, I brought my e30 m3 there. When I got there we dynoed first to see baseline 182 rwhp + 144 rwtq, after tuning 194 rwhp + 153 rwtq . Most importantly 10 -15 ft-tq for nearly the whole rev range. I then asked Paul what stock e36 m3's put down on his dyno (95 m3 180 hp and 96-99 185 hp) , so don't be dissapointed if your car makes less than the dynojet run. Mustang dynoes do read lower, bottom line is you will leave with a faster car!!! I'm actually bringing my e30 m3 2.5 back next week for a retune, just added schrick 284/276 cams. Good luck Armo95.

Later Johnny

Armo95

02-18-2004, 10:00 PM

Yeah, Paul sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I can't wait to head up there and see what they can do for me.

Good Luck with your car too man...sounds like a monster.:wave:

RogRacer

02-19-2004, 12:39 PM

Say Armo95...let me suggest that you check the local weather report....and write down the Baro pressure...humidty....temperature...and test elevation when you do your test. You can then apply SAE corrections yourself, if the dyno operator doesn't do it. It also provides a means to cross-check his corrections, so to speak.

Armo95

02-20-2004, 10:22 AM

Paul said they will do both Actual and SAE corrected numbers for me w/ AFR for both. Although it wouldn't hurt if I tried them out myself when I get home from Penn after the tuning...

Thanks for the suggestion Rog! :D

RogRacer

02-20-2004, 10:31 AM

It doesn't hurt to cross-check. Dyno operators...even good ones...often have incorrect baro pressure transducers. Also, 10-1, they make no allowance for humidity. This last issue is likely to make no difference since your test temperature is likely to be on the cold side....but it's a big deal with temps over 80 deg F or so....